New York Giants position breakdowns: Tight end
by Ed Valentine on Jan 12, 2010 7:09 AM EST
in News
76 comments
Next up in my series of position-by-position breakkdowns for the New York Giants is tight end. Since we did wide receiver first, that seems to make sense.
I think most of you guys know I am a huge supporter of starting tight end Kevin Boss. He isn't Tony Gonzalez, but he most certainly is a weapon for the Giants. And as his career unfolds he should be an even bigger one.
What is not to like about The Bossman? He is a huge target for Eli Manning at 6-foot-6, 253 pounds. He has excellent hands. He has incredible toughness, as we saw time and again during 2009. The guy can take a hit. He has good speed and athleticism for a tight end, and can make plays after he catches the ball. He can block, and he does so willingly. He never makes waves when the ball doesn't come his way, just does whatever the coaching staff asks him to do.
Boss is still just 26, and has now completed three years in the league. The last two, of course, as a starter. His numbers have increased each season -- 9 catches as a rookie, 33 in 2008 and 42 in 2009.
Many of us, myself included, are impatient to see Boss have a monster season of, say, 70+ catches. As frustrated as we get sometimes with the Giants' traditional view of the tight end position, and with Boss' seeming disappearance from the game plan on occasion, I think those days are coming.
Boss is continuing to get better, and it is entirely possible he will be a primary target for Eli for the duration of Eli's contract, which has six more seasons.
I went looking at the career arcs of many of the best tight ends currently in the league. The one to whom Boss might be best compared? Try Dallas Clark, who coincidentally catches passes from that other Manning in Indianapolis.
In Clark's first four seasons in Indianapolis, he caught 29, 25, 37 and 30 passes. His last three? Try 58 in 2007, 77 in 2009 and 100 this season. I don't know if Boss will ever reach those lofty numbers, but I continue to believe his numbers will get better as he improves, Eli learns more about him and the Giants find more ways to utilize him.
Now let's look at the rest of the Giants tight ends.
I did not really understand why the Giants kept Darcy Johnson instead of Michael Matthews at the beginning of the season. Today, I still don't understand it. Not that Matthews is anything special, but he is a blocking tight end -- which is what the Giants need with Boss and Travis Beckum on the roster. Blocking is not Johnson's strong suit, and I think pushing him into that role hurt the Giants' running game.
I would not mind seeing the Giants go to an additional lineman when they go to their 'heavy' package, something more and more NFL teams seem to be doing.
Beckum was looked at as an H-Back when the Giants drafted him, and he still is. He is not a good blocker, and the Giants seem to doubt he will ever be one. He caught just 8 balls as a rookie, and though he seems to have some skills I wonder if he will ever truly have a role in the offense. Who comes off the field to put Beckum in the slot? I really don't know.
Have to also mention Bear Pascoe, of course. Gotta love anybody named Bear. He will probably get a chance to make the team during training camp this summer.
Keep: Boss, Beckum, Pascoe
Dump: Johnson
Draft/Free Agency Priority: 4-5
(E-mail Ed at bigblueview@gmail.com)
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Yeah, we seem "set" at TE ...
but not a real strength like WR.
I’ve gotta believe that Clark’s #‘s are in part a testament to Peyton’s accuracy in getting the ball into a small window for guys that are reasonably well covered, but can catch anything that gets to them. Boss seems to have similar concentration, even when getting blown up by the DB.
I’d love to have the Giants game plan a bit more to get Boss better opportunities. Witten seems to be open on almost every play, but doesn’t look ridiculously athletic. I’d study what Dallas does with him for clues.
As for Beckum, It’s tough to use a “receiver only” tight end, as the D knows he’s in there to run routes and not block. Maybe split him out just a bit, and at least see if he can do the crack-back type block. Otherwise, I’d rather have a Barden on the field to use his size, or an OL like you suggest.
Chandler
I’m gathering from his omission that you don’t believe Scott Chandler will have a place with this team next year?
Well
I know nothing about the guy. I forgot all about him.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 12, 2010 7:45 AM EST up reply actions
I'd like to see Beckum be a fullback.
He is a strong guy…doesn’t really mean everything, but he had one of the highest # of bench reps at the combine for a TE.
Maybe he’ll block a bit better when he’s moving instead of the point of attack?
Also, the Giants used a lot (tho it was entirely too much) single back formations, whether it was under center or shotgun.
So, if they’re not going to use the FB…why even carry one like Hedge?
Beckum would be an excellent receiver out of the backfield.
The Giants definitely need to get a blocking TE tho for that #2 TE spot. Matthews was missed…cuz he’s 300lbs.
I’d love for them to get another big TE like that. It could be a lineman, but rather a TE just in case they do need to catch passes.
Although maybe Bear Pascoe is that dude?
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
What?
Free, I’m not sure what was in your coffee this morning. Or maybe your Kool-Aid since you’re a young fella. But, how in the world are you going to put the guy at fullback when he can’t block?
That might be the silliest idea you have tossed out yet here at BBV.
Beckum is an H Back, and perhaps the Giants will find a role for him in their four- and 5-receiver sets. Particularly in ‘Green Zone’ situations.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 12, 2010 7:48 AM EST up reply actions
pass catching.
It was obvious that Eli likes to throw to the RB in the flat.
Hedgecock, while in practice may have good hands (to those that watch Hedge in practice), but he was incabable at that.
Its all about getting all these guys on the field. Its heresy for Gilbride…but why not?
And on running downs…I don’t think its out of the question for him to be decent. He may be bad at the point of attack against a DE….but maybe if he had to block as a FB he’d be a bit better.
But its all about getting more weapons on the field for #10.
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 12, 2010 8:00 AM EST up reply actions
Well
As an H-Back you can sometimes start the guy in the slot, sometimes in the backfield, motion him, etc. But, you never want to use a guy as a true fullback when blocking is his primary weakness. I would like to see them incorporate him into the Green Zone and the short passing game rather than a smaller guy like Hixon, though.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 12, 2010 8:12 AM EST up reply actions
whatever it is..they need to get him on the field.
They’ve been shying away from the true fullback anyway, dunno if that was cuz Hedge was hurt…but still, shying away anyway.
He needs to get on the field and be Eli’s Chris Cooley or Dallas Clark…is all.
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 12, 2010 8:18 AM EST up reply actions
Don't forget the Pope
Shockey couldn’t block worth a damn when he was drafted, neither could Boss. Both were taught by one of the best, Coach Mike Pope. Don’t be surprised if Beckum’s blocking gets noticeably better next year. I ain’t saying fullback better, but enough so that TC feels more comfortable using him a bit more. Did like what I saw of the Bear in the last couple games, think he at least deserves a shot to make the team next year.
Who the hell is Scott Chandler?
Regardless, not a draft need, can bring in some rookie FAs or a journeyman vet to compete for the blocking spot.
Chandler's a former Iowa TE.
Big bastard…bigger then Boss. But he’s slower then Boss and not as athletic (even more of a non-athletic white guy)
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 12, 2010 8:25 AM EST up reply actions
Here's an idea:
Let Cofield or Robbins block from the fullback position.
We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.
Like the ravens did
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
Hedgecock
Met him during the NFL draft last year, he was at Fox and Hounds at Menlo Park Mall taking pics with some other dude from Rutgers – I don’t think the Rutgers dude got drafted. Big dude at over 250+ lbs…he was pretty serious the whole time, but had this one sarcastic comment that got my friends and I balling… our cute waitress was wearing #18, so he comes walking by our table and tells her that she might want to take her jersey off and he said…“that guy is old news” – or something in that respect…it came out of left field and everybody just started cracking up! My friend shook his hand and told me it felt like bricks…I’ve never seen him practice and didn’t shake his hands either (I was on the other side of the table) but it sure looks like it on Sundays…
Opus smart , lascivio magis , intereo gauisus...
i think he's more of a pure HBack....
can play in the backfield, out wide, in the slot, or on the line.
I wouldn’t want him lead blocking for Jacobs or anything like that as a pure Half Back would.
problem is he’s a liability on the line right now too.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
Beckum
I think the Giants probably got him in thinking he would be a goal line blocker/receiver or eventually would put on the weight to be a TE. I think they’ll come up short on both ends of the stick.
I do believe we have to get a TE that is more of a threat down the middle so teams have to pull a SS or a DB to cover him. That is the value of the Shockeys, Gonazalez and Gates. Teams have to commit a DB to cover them on passing downs which makes it harder to execute double teams or shadowing over the top.
I think if we can grab a TE that can catch and it falls in our lap in the draft we need to take a shot but otherswise our needs are in other places.
The idea with Beckum
was to be like that guy in green that plays in the same stadium, Dustin Keller.
Keller’s not the greatest blocker, but like Becks was a workout warrior.
Beckum fell so far cuz of his major leg injury in college, or else he would’ve been a high pick too.
There is Zero need for a pass catcher.
Someone who can block, and hopefully doesn’t have cinder hands, would be nice…but as a #2 or 3 TE.
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 12, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
benchpress doesn't mean anything
blocking is all technique and unless youve done a decent amount over your whole life its extreemely unlike youll be a successful blocker in the NFL .. i dont think there will be a place for him in the offense i just cant see it. it would be a little too obvious when he came into the game
by Zone Blitz 59 on Jan 15, 2010 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
hmmm
I like the TE position for us, I agree that not having a blocking TE hurt the run game…had we been able to find another blocking option on passing downs perhaps Boss would have had more looks..
Beckum @ FB on passing downs hmmmm a nice wrinkle, but that wld mean he wld have to come in on non passing downs as well ! Not good
i dunno maybe I just like the colors
by Mr.Williams on Jan 12, 2010 7:56 AM EST via mobile reply actions
TEs in the league
It seems like there are a lot of good ones. I read an article recently that was listing all of the good ones. Boss was not included, but the article did include over 10, who I can say are deservedly listed above Boss. So, he is still relatively under the radar. Teams know him, but Fans don’t. Is this the golden age of the TE?
Every team in the league runs the naked bootleg, TE pass for 10-15 yards against us… can we run it sometime?
sure wish we would run it sometime
unless we already do and I’ve been missing it…KG is just funny like that…It seams like we have a lot of weapons and sometimes on those Sundays – during the game, I feel like we don’t.
Opus smart , lascivio magis , intereo gauisus...
Boss
needs to be utilized like Bavaro…he reminds me of a gentler Bavaro – haha, if I can put it that way…
I’m glad his numbers are going up, but like Ed said, I’ve been waiting for him to break out…have like 60+ catches be the 2nd receiver on the team behind Smith… If Nicks takes that – then so be it…but I would expect Boss to be tied with the #2 receiver on the team in terms of catches..and although he was only a couple of catches from being 3rd on the team… and yeah, I was also stunned that Matthews was sent packing and Darcy was kept – but I certainly like the Bear Pickup ;)
Opus smart , lascivio magis , intereo gauisus...
I see where you are going...
with the Bavaro reference. With a breakout season of 60+ catches, Boss could move himself into the upper tier of TEs in the league. The dude is a monster and one of the more impressive TEs I have seen in recent years. I too like the addition of Bear, I wish we could have seen more/utilized him better over the course of the final two games. I sure hope he can block, so we can have a Boss and Bear at TE.
Boss? Bear?
This is starting to sound like the old N64 game Banjo-Kazooie here.
He could put up elite numbers
But i think a few things hindered that. It is obvious that KG isn’t too TE friendly, so it’s hard to know how much Boss is in the gameplan? He did have a slow statistical start to the season. With saying that, even if he was in the gameplan to a degree, what progression was he, was Eli checking off into something else? And lastly, due to the fact that teams had 10 in the box, Boss did have to stay in probably alot more than what they wanted him to, and it seemed like it.
So from my observations, and the stats he did mange to put up, they would’ve been alot higher if he was given the opportunity!
double tight with Boss and Bear...
haha…nice!!! sounds like an old CBS tv show!
Opus smart , lascivio magis , intereo gauisus...
Matthews
wasn’t let go… he was traded to NE for a conditional pick. Still think it was a bad move though. Hey Ed, do you know what round that pick wound up at? a 6 I think?
it felt like a trade...
but Greg A is right, I think the Pats took him literally within that same hour or same part of the day when he was let go…snatched him like vultures!
Opus smart , lascivio magis , intereo gauisus...
it was a trade
but the pats didnt keep him long enough for us to get a pick something like that
You can see a lot just by observing-Yogi Berra
My issues with Boss
Boss has a problem getting open quickly. That’s a direct result of his poor route running. That’s one of the big reasons why Eli doesn’t throw to him often. By the time Boss finally gets open, Eli has to get the ball out or risk taking a sack. He can catch the ball and he’s tough but he needs to watch tape of Jason Witten or Tony Gonzalez. Eli and Gilbride referred to Boss not getting open quickly enough. I distinctly remember Collingsworth alluding to that fact as well during the AZ game. I review the game tape and I see this as a problem a lot of the time.
Also, and probably a bigger concern, he needs to protect himself better. In other words, he needs to get lower and avoid contact. He is too upright when he runs. It leaves his body vulnerable for big hits. Once again, watch tape of Gonzo and Witten. They’re both an inch shorter than Boss but they really use their body well. There are times when you can’t avoid a big hit. However, be smart about it when you can.
I forgot to mention his blocking
Boss’ run blocking was pretty bad this season. I saw him completely whiff on some run blocks, which allowed some clean shots on Bradshaw in particular. He has to clean that up. When you’re run blocking, you have to be on attack mode and engage the defender. You can’t be passive because he’ll run right by you and one missed block is all takes to blow up a running play. Even Gilbride mentioned this as a problem. He said that the Giants had a problem setting the edge on some runs. Well, Boss occupied the edge on many of those runs.
I also saw him do a terrible job at chipping LBs and DEs on the edge in pass blocking in the 2nd half of the season. He was fantastic at it against Dallas in Week 2. DeMarcus Ware couldn’t get a free release the entire game. By having Boss chip Ware before Boss went on his route, it gave Diehl an extra second to set up for Ware’s speed rush and the RB an extra second to come over to help.
I understand that Boss was battling many injuries this season but I gave my honest critique.
Yeah, I saw some of that too..
Honestly, I think the whole team was like that this whole year…very inconsistent, whooped the bad teams (which the Gmen never do, they either barely squeak by or lose a close one) and then was just plain inconsistent with the good teams… although, they should’ve won against SD, Denver and Arizona
But, you’re right Boss was hot or cold…1 good block then 2 whifs, etc. & he does run straight up, but that one run where he hurdled someone..don’t recall which game, that was awesome!
Opus smart , lascivio magis , intereo gauisus...
I saw that too
He does not get separation from defenders, but that could be part of his route running. You have to like his hands, however.
Running style
Too upright when he runs — well, maybe. But he did develop a killer straight-arm this season that he used a couple times.
He’s not an elite TE, and never will be. The blocking and route running have to improve, I agree — I think just about everyone on the roster needs to raise his game quite a bit next year, but I agree with most of this. Still, he’s a better than at least half of the starting TE’s in the league right now.
Boss
To me Boss was a surprise when Shockey went down
I thought at the time he was finally gonna be our replacement for one of the best tight ends
to ever wear a Giant uniform…Howard Cross one of the best blocking TE ever
With our WR depth I dont see Boss ever getting 70+ catches although I love seeing him turn a 5-6 yard check down pass into a 30 yard gain. He is a throwback guy, lunchpail type
Pascoe could be that guy at six five 250+ we just never got to see a lot of him this year
You can see a lot just by observing-Yogi Berra
I don't know about that...
with the offense looking more spread out. Those WRs can attract a lot more dbacks next year that the TEs might get their fill in the middle of the field…
Opus smart , lascivio magis , intereo gauisus...
MORE BEAR PASCOE!
that is all.
by Step up and make big plays on Jan 12, 2010 9:32 AM EST reply actions
I wouldn't get too hyped on him.
He was with the 49ers before we got him – they liked him too, but he was very, VERY raw. Singletary spent a ton of time yelling at him. (Think: Gilligan and the Skipper.)
Doesn’t mean he can’t improve, but…he prolly ain’t there yet.
I left my swagger in my other pants.
yes, but...
he is BEAR F’N PASCOE!
Find me a better name in the NFL, I challenge you all…
by Step up and make big plays on Jan 12, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
I agree Ed...
Would still give the draft a peek to see if we can find a good catch/block upgrade in lieu of Beckum, but I think were pretty set here..I agree with whoever mentioned that blocking should improve as they grow. I also thought they should have dropped Johnson..could never understand why they carried four.
Jints should become a passing team
They should change their mentality from run first, to pass first. Who says that Eli should not throw 40-50 passes a game.
Let the passing game set up the run, then you’ll see Boss get 70.
nah...
they should pass more or at least on an equal consistency.
But they need to run the ball more effectively.
Even watching a team like the Cardinals…all the talk is about their passing game…but the big reason they beat the hell out of the Packers, was cuz BEANIE, Hightower and Stephens-Howling were running wild.
They need to fix the running game. Who cares about passing numbers?
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 12, 2010 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
Balance is the key ...
Even the good passing teams stick with the run when not too far behind (except the Eagles, and that’s their primary problem).
But with our current passing attack, we should be in a better position to come back from bigger deficits than in the past, but that seemed to not be the case in 2009.
I don't know what the wind situation in the new fiels is going to be
but as long as our home games in Nov and Dec are played in blustery NJ we need to be a run first team. The Yanks are a lefty heavy team because of the short porch in right and the Giants should be a run first team because passing late in the season is very difficult because of the weather..
Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
by CasanovaWong on Jan 12, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
Balance
I’m sorry guys but Eli is not Peyton. They’ll never become the team nor should they strive to be a Passing team. We dont’ have a dome and it gets too cold in Jersey.
Why can’t we keep the balance we had the previous two years when we won over 22 games and a SB?
no doubt...
but I think Eli could continue and run less and still be a better team for it.
They need to rejuvenate the running game to make both work tho.
I don’t care about running numbers, just more of a threat to run.
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 12, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
The Draw
What was good to see was they finally got the draw running well again. It seems that they’ve had such a hard time with synchronization between the blocking and handoff.
I’d really like to seem them work on the screen play (I know it worked in Dallas) a little more.
All I have to say about the TE position is
Keep the BEAR!!!!
He’s a blocking TE and thats what we need.
Use Boss more he can be a big time weapon, he still needs to work on his blocking
Beckum . .. . well see
Overall
It would be great if a we got a gamebreaking TE but I think we need to give Boss another year to see what he does in the offseason with this WR core. I think the TE is just as important in that chemistry and we need to keep the oven door closed and let it bake for one more year.
Mark my words along with im sure 90% of this blog
Kevin Boss will be that gamebreaking TE. With the 3 receivers we currently have in Smith, Nicks, and Manningham.. Boss is going to be consistanly covered one on one by LBs and #3 and 4 DBs. That formula right there should/will equal big time success for the Bossman.
Give me work release or give me death - #17
by Plaxico Burress on Jan 12, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
and im sure 90% of this blog will agree****
Give me work release or give me death - #17
by Plaxico Burress on Jan 12, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
oh i see
I thought you wanted me to mark the words of 90% of this blog
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jan 12, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
hit the post button before proofreading.. rookie mistake
Give me work release or give me death - #17
by Plaxico Burress on Jan 12, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
The only thing that scares me with Boss is...
…how he eats up those big hits. I’m just scared one day he just won’t be able to get up right away after one of those hits, or he’ll get a concussion, or something that will just keep repeating.
Who's the Boss!
haha, what an awful show.
Anywho, boss is the third highest TE in the league, according to ProFootballFocus.com
I might be wrong on this, but I believe at one point in the season, this website had him ranked #1. So to say he is no Tony Gonzalez would be accurate (ok a bit of a stretch, but the guy can block). Perhaps the Giants got rid of Matthews because they already had their monster blocker in Boss.
I also don’t mind putting in Beckham as FB on certain downs. anything to keep the D on their toes, and give Eli more options with audibles.
Your mother looks like Tony Danza.
At one point in the season?
Was that the part of the season where we played 4 easy teams and Dallas?
Boss is never going to scare anyone like Celek so let’s keep it ‘REAL’ on the BBV blog.
I’ll always love him for burning Pats SS Rodney Harrison in the SB. To me, that is one of the best images of that game.
The middle of the year
He had above average to good receiving numbers, and the highest run blocking numbers of any TE.
His pass blocking kept him down thought.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
you callin my momma Tony Danza?
You liable to get Danza-slapped
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jan 13, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
I'd like to see more Beckum next year
the guy can get open much better than Boss. Even if he is not a blocker that shouldn’t be a problem. Celek is a terrible blocker as well.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 12, 2010 1:41 PM EST reply actions
It would be nice
If Eli and the Bossman could mimic Simms and Bavaro’s seam route. That play was money for the Gs back in the day.
I was going to say
Boss should be like Bavaro.
They both wear #89, and they’re both tough players
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
its just too simple a play I think...
Make Boss the hot route…you know, the 6"7 guy right up the gut?
…too easy.
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 12, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
Boss isn't as good
he’s slower, worse route runner.
Everyone here is overrating his actual ability by alot.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 12, 2010 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
Says who?
TMQ had part of their article saying Boss should have been considered one of the best TEs.
TMQ doesn’t give out praise idly.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
no one is saying he's as good...
just to use him like Bavaro.
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 13, 2010 8:18 AM EST up reply actions
beckum??
Can someone – ANYONE – tell me why the Giants drafted him again?
I mean I suppose that the end of the 3rd rd is a crapshoot – but this pick has simply never made sense to me. Why would you give TB plays when you can instead utilize Boss? At least with Boss in the gm you have the semblance of the potential for a run. Beckum is such a poor blocker that the opposing D can pretty easily drop a a guy out of the box with him in the game.
Beware...
the Manningham effect. You can say the same about Ramses Barden.
Him and Beckum are like 2 extra 3rd round picks this year.
Beckum has as much potential as Barden…possibly more cuz he was a superstar in college.
Give him a chance…..before he’s called a waste.
The pick made complete sense last year, they needed weapons on offense for Eli. They got that, but didn’t realize Smith, HAM, Boss were going to be as good as they were, or even Nicks being as good as he was as a rookie.
How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?
by FreeBradshaw on Jan 12, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
Keep Boss
Boss is a darned good tight end who plays hard all the time, keeps his mouth shut and just does his job to the best of his ability. And, he has abobe average ability, too. Eli needs Boss, Beckum and the rest, but it starts at tight end with Kevin Boss. I don’t miss Shockey, who usually disappointed. Shockey spent all his time talking about how bgreat he was, but little actually showing us on the field.
Tight End
is not a position we need to address in the 2010 draft. Let’s get 1 or 2 more offensive linemen for depth and grooming, and add five defensive players. We need a safety, a MLB and a defensive tackle and I mean right now.
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