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New York Giants firing line: Tom Quinn should be next

How does special teams coach Tom Quinn still have a job with the New York Giants?

Bill Sheridan is gone, quickly held accountable for the putrid defense the Giants played in 2009. So is defensive line coach Mike Waufle, whose unit clearly had gone backwards since the dominant 2007 season.

The Giants, expected to be Super Bowl contenders are coming off an embarrassing 8-8 season, and the organization is clearly in the mood to make changes. As John Mara was quite clear about, "The status quo is not acceptable."

So, I ask again. Why does Quinn still have a job?

Quinn, 41, took over the Giants special teams when the highly-regarded Mike Sweatman retired ater the 2006 season. Super Bowl victory or not, the Giants special teams have been terrible ever since.

Star-divide

Let's look at the 2009 numbers, specifically. These are from NFL.com.

  • The Giants ranked 28th in the league in kickoff returns with a paltry 20.9 yards per return average. This despite having, I believe, an above-average return man in Domenik Hixon. I do have to give some credit, though, since the Giants finished tied for sixth in punt returns with a 10.9-yard average. That, I think, is mostly due to Hixon's individual skill.
  • Lawrence Tynes, despite changes made to allegedly improve his kickoffs, was 26th in the league in kickoff distance and had just six touchbacks. Of course, all those annoying, 'strategic' short kickoffs didn't help. Aren't we all sick of watching those 'pooch' kicks come down at the 25, pretty much guaranteeing giving up a starting field position around the 40-yard line?
  • Despite having possibly the best directional punter in the history of the game in Jeff Feagles, the Giants were tied for 29th in the league with a 36.0 yard net punting average. Feagles may have slipped some, but there is also a belief that Quinn meddled -- forcing a change in style and all but demanding that kicks were often directed out of bounds. Feagles tied for the league-lead with 17 kicks out of bounds.

Numbers found at Pro Football Focus provide an even bigger indictment of the Giants special teams.

Using its unique +/- grading system, PFF puts the Giants special teams at -13.7 for the season. Let's compare that to the teams that qualified for the playoffs.

New York Jets (+32.8), Cincinnati Bengals (-0.4), Baltimore Ravens (+20.2), New England Patriots (+12.5), Arizona Cardinals (+21.5), Green Bay Packers (-1.0), Dallas Cowboys (+22.5), Philadelphia Eagles (+24.3).

It is plain to see from those numbers how critical special teams are to making the playoffs. Only the Bengals and Packers are average to below average on special teams.

Go back even further. Even in the Super Bowl year of 2007, Quinn's first as coordinator, the Giants were -10.2 on special teams. Last season they were -9.3, with only outstanding work by Feagles saving them from being even worse.

Please, don't try to tell me poor special teams play is an indication of a dearth of talent. It can be, sure, but not with this team. The Giants won the 2007 Super Bowl, were 11-1 at one point in 2008 and were thought to have championship level talent entering 2009. They have had plenty of talent to get the job done.

So, why haven't they? Whether it is poor schemes, poor strategic choices, poor use of available personnel I don't know. I just know it has to fall on Quinn. And a change needs to be made.

So, why does he still have a job? Beats me. Hopefully, he won't have the Giants job much longer.

Believe me, I am no expert when it comes to available assistant coaches. I can't tell you for sure who the Giants should bring in. I do have one suggestion, though. The Giants had better at least talk to Bobby April, who was recently let go in the purge by the Buffalo Bills.

Here is what Buffalo Rumblings said about April when he was fired.

April leaves the Bills after six seasons as Buffalo's special teams coordinator, including the last four as Assistant Head Coach. Under April's tutelage, Buffalo's special teams units have consistently been among the league's top units, producing three No. 1 rankings from the Dallas Morning News and several star specialists, including kick returner Terrence McGee, punt returner Roscoe Parrish and punter Brian Moorman.

The ESPN report indicates that April was "livid" when, after the firing of Dick Jauron on November 17, Perry Fewell got the call as interim head coach instead of him. It's hard to blame him - he was the Assistant Head Coach, after all. Regarded as one of the finest and most innovative special teams coordinators in the league, it's highly unlikely that April will be out of work for long.

Give this guy some praise, folks. He's an outstanding coach that's been stuck in poor situations throughout the entirety of his Bills coaching career. He'll most definitely be missed.

That's a pretty good endorsement. No way April has been working with the talent in Buffalo that would be available to him with the Giants.

So, why does Tom Quinn still have a job?

(E-mail Ed at bigblueview@gmail.com)

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That is a head scratcher Ed ...

When the “fire Sheridan” in mid-season talk was in full swing, many commented that at least you can fire the ST guy mid-season. Gotta upgrade here.

On another topic, want some pleasant reading this morning – try the Philly papers. A sample from philly.com:

“ARLINGTON, Texas – It was so gruesome that we won’t know the identities of the victims until the autopsies are complete.”

by Shofner85 on Jan 10, 2010 7:50 AM EST reply actions  

poor McNabb

will per normal be lynched

It is good to be stucked in a division with some of the world greatest chokers (dallas and Phil) Even if we suck, like this year, we can always look forward to watching Phil and Dallas choke in the playoffs

by a hay on Jan 10, 2010 10:57 PM EST up reply actions  

live in western NY..

i’m in the heart of bills territory..when i saw april get the chop i immediatly wanted the gmen to go get him…it should be the new #1 priority..DC can wait till the playoffs are over

by LT's Will Power on Jan 10, 2010 8:21 AM EST reply actions  

same here

We defiantly get April

by Jsz on Jan 10, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Ed, do you take this to mean....

   That if Fewell were the Giants choice for DC, April wouldn’t be interested in New York? I agree that a change needs to be made as these have hardly been “special” teams.

by Cranky50 on Jan 10, 2010 8:36 AM EST reply actions  

At first, i had that same feeling too

So after i re-read it again, i could see how April would be miffed for the Bills pulling rank on him and promoting Fewell. Then again, it’s not Fewell’s fault he was promoted, though who would be responsible? The GM, Ralph W.?

Just on the surface, i would find it hard to believe that April would have anymosity toward Fewell, but moreso against the system and how things unfolded.

by Hootman on Jan 10, 2010 10:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Fewell

What I wondered about the Fewell interview is if TC not only wanted to interview him for the job, but pump him for recommendations about other fired Bills assistants. Including April. No inside info on that, just a gut feeling.

by Ed Valentine on Jan 10, 2010 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Giants Special teams have sucked

since 1993, the really have.

I’m with you ED, you can’t tell me it’s a talent thing it’s all backups.

I think one thing that hurt a bit is TT played a lot on ST in 08 and was very very good, as a starter he did not play on ST at all. No excuse but something to think about.

A new Coach is needed.

by Landeta on Jan 10, 2010 8:45 AM EST reply actions  

Well, when two special teamers make the pro bowl in '08...

…it’s hard to say that ST has been downright lousy. Sure, neither Feagles nor Carney made were selected for either their deep punts or booming kickoffs, but still…

In terms of a return game, we haven’t really had squat since Reyna Thompson and Dave Meggett were on the field. Landeta (not you!) was probably our last really dependable punter; Bahr our last reliable kicker.

by Step up and make big plays on Jan 10, 2010 10:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Special teams

My comment is more about the coverage and return games, really. With the talent the team has had there is no excuse for not being able to cover kicks.

by Ed Valentine on Jan 10, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions  

So it is basically Tynes and Feagles we are talking about, then...

…and not ST across the board??? Because there were guys who performed.

For instance, also worth noting on ST this year was Fred Robbins, who swallowed up 3-4 extra points like they were $5 footlongs. I don’t recall a season in recent memory with that many blocked XPs. Sadly, this is about the only positive thing Fred did all year…

by Step up and make big plays on Jan 10, 2010 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Coverage and returns

Too much poor kickoff coverages and too few decent kick returns. I don’t understand how on kickoff returns Hixon always has to dodge defenders by the 20-yard line. Blocked EPs is just solid individual effort.

by Ed Valentine on Jan 10, 2010 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Right.

I’ve heard complaints about Hix as a KR. Considering the help he gets out there, I think he has had an excellent year.

by blue gonz on Jan 10, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Thats what I meant

we’ve had a good punter, but like Ed said our coverage teams especailly kick off coverage has been lousy since the early 90’s I mean really bad.

by Landeta on Jan 10, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

those two...

those two weren’t real ringing endorsments for the quality of the ST…combined age approaches 100years old i think…probably a combination of no real outstanding kickers that year with respect to their individual careers (comback players of the year in a way)(they both came back from hip replacements right?)…also worth a note, DeOssie was an alternate that year but still unless your a Steve Tasker, being voted to PB , unless a kick returner is IMHO not that much to bark about, its more unit thing than individual

by LT's Will Power on Jan 10, 2010 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Best punter in Giants history

thats why I chose him as my username. . . I also loved his mid 70’s prono stauch.

by Landeta on Jan 10, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Also

My first autograph. My Pop Warner team always had a Giants player come to our awards dinner.

by YankeeDudeL on Jan 11, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Tynes and Feagles

weren’t all that great…but the worst was the coverage.

Even last year they sucked. Few good games here and there…but sucked.

I mean…after the season ended we hear about all these guys going in for surgery…kinda excuses for the poor running game and of course Sheridan and the defense.

But the ST sucking is another one for Sherdian….how can the D be good at stopping the other team from scoring if they consistently start between the 30 and 40?

All year it was evident that kicking the ball out of bounds would’ve been easier, and of course less risk of a KR TD…which somehow, they didn’t let up?

N8 !

by FreeBradshaw on Jan 10, 2010 8:48 AM EST reply actions  

Thinking about Feagles

Even though our punt coverage was horrible, it just seemed like they were trying to use Feagles strength of directional punting all the time, regardless of field position. By evidence of him leading the league in kicks out of bounds. But thinking of Feagles leg strength, did the Giants really have to do this? I highly doubt he would consistently out-kick the coverage, thus more fair catches in deeper territory.

by Hootman on Jan 10, 2010 10:15 AM EST up reply actions  

+1

No kidding. Also, Hagan was decent on specials, but he was no Tyree.

by potroast on Jan 10, 2010 8:53 AM EST up reply actions  

and lo and behold...

…Tyree’s number (now #15, I believe) was being called by the announcers several times in recent weeks on ST.

by Step up and make big plays on Jan 10, 2010 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Tyree

You guys have to get over the Tyree thing. I watched him all through training camp, and he’s not what he used to be. I also checked the stats for this year. He was active for all of two games for the Ravens this season and made precisely zero plays. He’s just not a special-teams difference maker any more.

by Ed Valentine on Jan 10, 2010 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

He recovered a ST fumble

when a guy on the raves fumbled it.

Other than that, yeah he’s done nothing.

Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.

When there's a WILL there's a WAY

by Willgfass on Jan 10, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Sorry Ed

But I beleive Tyree will live on, at least least in spirit
much like Bucky Dent has in Yankees lure and always remembered for that one home run

wow did I just compare Tyree to Bucky Dent??
Dallas and the Jets winning has clouded my judgement

You can see a lot just by observing-Yogi Berra

by greg a on Jan 10, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Sure, he will

And he should live on in our memories. My point is we have to get over the idea that he would have made a difference on the 2009 Giants. He would not have.

by Ed Valentine on Jan 10, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Understand your point

I am more curious to know if Tyree would have ended up on the inactive list as much as Moss.seeing how in effective our coverage teams played

You can see a lot just by observing-Yogi Berra

by greg a on Jan 10, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Well

I guess you could argue Moss vs. Tyree, though during camp it looked obvious that Moss was playing better. I’m sure the Giants thought/hoped they would get something out of Moss in the return game. They just need to cut ties with him and move on.

by Ed Valentine on Jan 10, 2010 11:12 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah

he’s been wasting a roster spot for 4 years. give him the boot

by bmanley620 on Jan 10, 2010 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

One correction

Tyree was active for 6 games, per Pro Football Reference. In that time, he had one fumble recovery and assisted on one tackle. That’s it. No receptions as a reciever.
Per Pro Football Focus, Derek Hagan made 9 special teams tackles. He also caught 8 passes.
At this point in their careers it is pretty obvious which guy has something left in the tank.

by Ed Valentine on Jan 10, 2010 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

but..

hagan is a better WR than tyree…not that we need another WR…which also makes me wonder what to do next year with WR…hagan looked solid at the end of the year, with ramses possibly/hopefully being the next great thing, manningham with mad (hopefully more consistant) skills, smith old faithful, and nicks another stud in the making…but at any rate..bring tyree back and make him play defense and special teams can’t be much worse than what we have..also be a nice nostalgic pickup…they all can rub his head (or helmet for that matter) before every game!

by LT's Will Power on Jan 10, 2010 9:34 AM EST reply actions  

Tynes has got to go

no question about it

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jan 10, 2010 9:53 AM EST reply actions  

Is it just me, or...

…did Tynes actually get better as the season went on this year in terms of his field goals? The only evidence i have to support this claim is anecdotal — BBV users seemed less vocal in calling for his head toward the end of the season. His kickoffs were always abysmal, but perhaps by that point his field goals were far less important situationally. I can’t say…

by Step up and make big plays on Jan 10, 2010 10:14 AM EST up reply actions  

that may have more to do with how the rest of the team played

too many other problems. Plus, early in the year the giants were moving the ball, then getting stopped inside the 20, which led to missed tynes field goals. he attempted a lot more kicks the first few weeks than he did the last few weeks.

by hocke26 on Jan 10, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Blackburn,Hagan and DeOssie

were the only guys I remember making any plays
when Moss somehow found his way into the lineup he could get down the field pretty good then blow a tackle and just stand there

I think a long snapper,linebacker and a WR is a pretty pathetic for a 4 year special teams coach to put out week after week

You can see a lot just by observing-Yogi Berra

by greg a on Jan 10, 2010 10:19 AM EST reply actions  

Goof and Kehl both had their names called on ST...

…unfortunately, for Kehl it was mostly in the beginning of the season against patsie opponents.

by Step up and make big plays on Jan 10, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Feagles

I love the guy, but he has to go. You can’t count on a punter that is only effective if you get to mid-field. Everyone can agree that the Giants defense was terrible this year, but they were a top-ten unit (statistically) as late as week 16. How is this possible? Because the special teams were so terrible that the defense was always defending a short field, so all those td drives were only 50 yards instead of 80. The departure of Feagles and Tynes are critical to the Giants getting back to a playoff level.

by Aceholioo on Jan 10, 2010 10:19 AM EST reply actions  

Not Feagles fault....

If his coach is asking him to change his approach. It’s my understanding that, besides tweaking Tynes mechanics, Quinn asked Feagles to get more hang time to allow defenders to get downfiled, rather than leave the best punter in history well enough alone. JF has been a directional magician with his pooch style which also defied the wind a bit by staying lower. Just looking at some of the short punts that went out of bounds, you could see that the wind had something to do with it.

Bleeding Blue since 1962

by sunlion333 on Jan 10, 2010 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for the memories

Feagles and Tynes had their moments of glory, but Feagles is too old and Tynes cannot hit the endzone with kickoffs.

I note that the Giants signed a Wake Forest kicker name Sam Swank. Does anyone know anything about him?

I concur with the posters. D is behind the 8 ball when the other team fields short kickoffs and punts and starts at their own 40. They are almost in FG range to start.

by scarlet knight on Jan 10, 2010 10:27 AM EST reply actions  

I think it was ralph Vacchiano who said that Tynes is the perfect kicker for our Giants..

..Cause he makes everything look difficult and we have to sweat for every 20 yard FG. But dammit if he cant make those 40 yarders..sometimes..

I don't need birthdays. I buy myself everything I need and because of my drinking its often a surprise

by ItsaToomah on Jan 10, 2010 11:08 AM EST reply actions  

Good Point

Special teams always flies under the radar. This season the unit escaped much scrutiny because the D was so bad.

by FrankB0318 on Jan 10, 2010 12:16 PM EST reply actions  

why do people consider Hixon an above average returner?

he cant hold on to the ball and it always seems like the giants always have a long field?

oops I crapped my pants!

by TheWenz on Jan 10, 2010 12:30 PM EST reply actions  

See above, Wenz

IMO, he’s the best we’ve had in decades.

by blue gonz on Jan 10, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Hes getting no blocking and always having to dodge people before the 20

by matth313 on Jan 10, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

My post that begins, "Right."

I do believe that if his support improved he’d fill the bill. “Still doesn’t mean…,” etc. Could be. even when the rest of the ST was good we haven’t had good returners. Tiki failed, so did Bradshaw, etc. Hix has has some success with poor support

by blue gonz on Jan 10, 2010 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Not worth a S@#%%&?

C’mon. He averaged 15.1 yards this season on punt returns, according to Pro Football Reference. He had a KR for a touchdown in 2007, and we spent most of 2008 and early 2009 asking for him to be the return guy. The kick returns stunk, not because of Hixon, but because he did not get the proper blocking.

by Ed Valentine on Jan 10, 2010 5:43 PM EST up reply actions  

not worth a shit

still feel that way, how many times did he drop the ball?

oops I crapped my pants!

by TheWenz on Jan 10, 2010 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Hixon is a good KR

He gives us the potential to take it to the house. He’s the best thing we have on ST. Ed is 100% right on on this one. And the ST Coach should be drawn & quartered.

You play to win the game!

by Simms-McConkey on Jan 11, 2010 9:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Nice to see Tyree

talking crap to the Patriots.

N8 !

by FreeBradshaw on Jan 10, 2010 2:47 PM EST reply actions  

Is not only the coach

Usually special teams are filled with second team players. Does any one think we have the best second team linebackers and defensive backs? Do you think DeOssie is a terror on special teams? Please, cut the present coach a break.

by bongoman19 on Jan 10, 2010 3:15 PM EST reply actions  

No, but

Are you telling me that the depth stunk in 2007 and 2008, when we won a Super Bowl and had one of the best teams in the league? I beg to differ, greatly.

by Ed Valentine on Jan 10, 2010 5:43 PM EST up reply actions  

he's telling you

we should draft Tebow as a KR/PR

You play to win the game!

by Simms-McConkey on Jan 11, 2010 9:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Believe it ir not

DeOssie is alot more important than you might think. Say what you want about his gunning ability, but long snappers on punts and snappers on EP/FGA’s are not a dime a dozen. It’s a specialty that involves technique and precision. Afterall, some or alot of teams actually use a roster spot for these guys and thats all they do. Just like carrying an extra K who only does KO’s.

by Hootman on Jan 11, 2010 7:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Right, Hoot

No way would the Giants cut DeOssie. Nor bad on STs, either and for occasionally giving an LB a blow.

by blue gonz on Jan 11, 2010 8:03 AM EST up reply actions  

This season is getting worse and worse

with the Ravens winning you know whats happening

Jets Ravens AFC tittle game to close out GIANTS stadium, we’re going to be second class citizens come next year, I’m absouloutley sick to my stomach.

by Landeta on Jan 10, 2010 3:26 PM EST reply actions  

I'm still pissed

the league schedule had the Jets close out Giants stadium.

by FrankB0318 on Jan 11, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Fortunately

The Ravens will manhandle the Jets

by mclaren_is_the_best on Jan 10, 2010 4:04 PM EST reply actions  

For all these weird trades people want

This one would make the most sense.

Not that it’s going to happen

Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.

When there's a WILL there's a WAY

by Willgfass on Jan 10, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe Ham for Ray RIce

That’ll never happen but I’d be on board for that.

by Landeta on Jan 10, 2010 6:20 PM EST up reply actions  

This

makes some sence from a talent perspective but I have a feeling Willis and TC wouldnt get along from what I’ve heard about McGahee.

by DoctorK16 on Jan 11, 2010 7:36 PM EST up reply actions  

nah... i like

bradshaw as our main wiht jacobs spelling…

jacobs coming in runnin at 1000% like when he used to spell tiki were his best efforts as a running back.. after a full season of being a starter he has begun to take too many hits and is wearing down some.

by semsemma on Jan 10, 2010 10:33 PM EST reply actions  

ham is good... an offseason to learn

more field awareness and hell be very good.

wr is good for now.. smith as slot.. nicks, and ham.. with the emergence of braden.. i like the sounds of that.

by semsemma on Jan 10, 2010 10:34 PM EST reply actions  

Cut Feagles some slack

It’s true that he’s old, but remember he is a dircetional kicker. Think about how many times he’s pinned opponents inside the 20 or less. This takes away from his overall punt average and has for his entire career. Tynes, on the other hand, I wouldn’t trust in a game of Kick the Can. Every time he comes out I worry. And that includes kickoffs!! The guy has no leg and is inaccurate at best.
Hixon is awesome as a KR. I think he’s more dangerous than people think. If the blocking were alittle better, to give him some more room/time, I think he could light up the field!!! Blackburn is probably one of the best Special Teams guys we have. I’ve seen him make quite a few of good plays on coverage.
We definately need to do something about the Special Teams. Is a new ST coach the answer? Not so sure about that. I don’t have the answer. Those decisions are above my pay level!!

by superda64 on Jan 11, 2010 4:12 AM EST reply actions  

I think the point is

directional kicker should be something every NFL punter should do. And if I’m not mistaken, Feagles wasn’t all that great at his specialty either (too many of those kicks went inside the 20…but at the 18).

It was more apparent how his lack of leg strength can kill the Giants when this year, for the first time in a few years, they had a bunch of drives stall inside their own zone (due to the lack of running game…please draft RB and OL, JR).

They need a P with a big leg. Feagles may be the best directional punter in history..but I’ll take one who is OK to good at it, if they have 3x the leg.

N8 !

by FreeBradshaw on Jan 11, 2010 8:55 AM EST up reply actions  

right on

All I want is a damn kicker that puts the other team at their own 20 with no return potential every time. All I want is a punter who puts the ball more than 40 stinkin yards downfield.
And I want an Oompa Loompa

You play to win the game!

by Simms-McConkey on Jan 11, 2010 9:53 AM EST up reply actions  

kickers are tough to find.....

why do you think they brought in about 1000 kickers and none can beat out Tynes?

Punter….there should be no problem finding a decent punter….which I’m sure Feagles is not anymore.

I’d even say that they should spring for Shane Lechler if Undead doesn’t franchise him again…

How come China can't vote David Lee for All-Star?

by FreeBradshaw on Jan 11, 2010 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

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