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Land of the Giants: Osi Free Zone

Most of the stories surrounding the Giants yesterday and today have been about Osi's absence from practice, but I've cut through the chaff to find some non-Osi related stories for your reading pleasure.

  • David Tyree is preparing for what may be his "final hurrah" as a New York Giant in this weekend's final preseason game. Appropriately, it's against none other than the New England Patriots. Also mentioned in the article is that Michael Boley has been taken off the P.U.P. list and will finally be able to start practicing.
  • Another one from Ralph Vachianno, about Hakeem Nicks' big night against the Jets. I've gotta say, I finally watched the highlights from that game, and Nicks looked fantastic. Also, there was a lot of hand wringing here and elsewhere about the Giants performance, but if that were a regular season game they probably would have just kicked the extra point to tie it at 20, and then kicked another extra point to tie it at 27, and the game would have gone to OT. It's not like they got blown out. They'll be fine, preseason results are beyond meaningless.
  • Matt Mosley analyzes the backup QB situation for each of the NFC East teams. He also ranks them in another post, but since he doesn't really say anything new I'll just tell you that he has David Carr as the worst backup in the East. I don't have a huge problem ranking Vick and Kitna ahead of him, since both have been more or less successful starters in the league in the recent past, but Todd Collins is a career backup who had a nice 4-week stretch two years ago, and that's it. No way is he a better QB than Carr. Jeremy Green, of Scouts Inc., agrees with me, and has Carr rated as the 14th best backup in the NFL. By the way, knock on wood that we never have to find out how good Carr really is.
  • Also from ESPN, Tuesday Morning Quarterback previews the NFC, though his preview for the Giants doesn't really talk much about football at all. He is impressed with our offensive line, which if you're a regular reader of TMQ you'll know is his favorite part of a football team. I generally enjoy TMQ and his somewhat random ramblings, but I hate how he calls the Jets and the Giants Jersey/A and Jersey/B, but doesn't make any such reference to the Maryland Redskins
  • Finally, Stephen Baker is being awarded the Giants Alumni Man of the Year Award. Baker was one of my favorite players when I was younger, mostly because of his awesome nickname, and it's great to hear he's doing well, and doing good things. He's currently a full-time substitute teacher in Perth Amboy. I've gotta say, I'm a little jealous of the kids at that school - my substitute teachers were usually cranky old nuns, and they get the Touchdown Maker.

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great article on Baker...

He sounds like a real class act….I guess it never registered when I was younger but only 5’8" 158 lbs…he certainly accomplished a lot with that frame.

by andiamo708 on Sep 2, 2009 11:30 AM EDT reply actions  

random thoughts

1. How badass would it be if Tyree made a replica helmet catch IN GILLETTE to rub it in their faces
2. I guess I am on the Kool-Aid, because every time I have seen David Carr in a game he looks like a competent, NFL quarterback. Yet I’m the only one who thinks so. And, of course, David Phillips thinks he’s an all-pro.
3. The Arlington Cowboys? The Miami Gardens Dolphins? The Orchard Park Bills?
4. The Jets game was played in contravention of my tagline, which does not apply to preseason games. duh.

You play to win the game!

by Simms-McConkey on Sep 2, 2009 11:31 AM EDT reply actions  

I'd take Carr over Vick in a second

Vick wasn’t a very good QB before he went to prison, and now he’s got two years of rust to shake off.

Regarding TMQ, he sometimes calls the Redskins the “Potomac Drainage Basin Indigenous Persons” but I guess it’s more work to type that than “Jersey/A” so he does so irregularly.

by JoshNY on Sep 2, 2009 12:02 PM EDT reply actions  

TMQ

Jersey/A and Jersey/N would make more sense, but I enjoy the jab at NY.

Also, he used to refer to the Redskins as the “Potomac Drainage Basin Indigenous Persons.” Does he not do that anymore?

by Elightful on Sep 2, 2009 12:05 PM EDT reply actions  

God Bless Baker

as a teacher I know how hard it is to find good subs who actually care about the kids in your room. It is a job that is usually thankless (except from fellow teachers). Plus he was a staple of any Giants season on Tecmo Super Bowl (along with trying to break 75 sacks with LT). Not Jerry Rice-drop-back-to-the-one-and-throw-99-yard-TD level, but very dependable.

Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!

by bigbluethruandthru on Sep 2, 2009 12:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Tyree

Oh man, hearing him call it his last hurrah makes it feel like we’re putting the family dog down. Here’s hoping he can treat this like a game and a not a practice so that he can come up big.

by RolloT on Sep 2, 2009 12:30 PM EDT reply actions  

you are right about that...

I remember being heart broken when the giants released McConkey…this is bringing back a lot of bad memories.

I just hope that another team gives him a chance. He’s only 29…when healthy he can be an asset on Special Teams…of course we haven’t seen in yet in pre season…but still. What makes it even worse is that he’s such a class act. he’s handling this like a true professional…he’s handling it a lot better than other people would © Amani Toomer

Who knows…Moss is straight up losing it…you can tell he’s frustrated and has made some pretty interesting statements about his lack of playing time. If he goes it’s between Hagan and Tyree…I suppose if Hagan gets hit by a bus crossing the street Tyree still has a shred of hope.

by andiamo708 on Sep 2, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I really love Tyree..

He is special..I hope it all comes together for him..We all know he can make the greatest catch we ever saw under SB level pressure..He was the hero, not Plax on that drive..He was quoted as saying there was no way he was not going to catch that pass..that is a gamer right there…I think he’s gotta take the pressure of himself and just play his game like he knows how.

by Bobbiblue on Sep 2, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tyree

is not going to play. He has already been ruled out because of his leg injuries.

by Ed Valentine on Sep 2, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Last Hurrah"

If he’s not playing, the mental picture left in my mind is Tyree sitting on the bench waving his hands in the air going “hurrah!”

by RolloT on Sep 2, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

lets no forget

This is the organization the cut Phil Simms

by queler on Sep 2, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

sports is a business...

in business tough decisions need to be made…

also, bear in mind he didn’t leave on the best of terms…you have to ask yourself…would he even want to come back?

and the fact that the chiefs cut him as surprising as it was…is proof that he just flat out doesn’t’ have it anymore.

by andiamo708 on Sep 2, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good news about

Boley there. I really think he’ll have a big impact by mid-season.

If the Jets game had been regular season, Jacobs and Bradshaw would have alternated steamrolling them for 4 quarters. Not a close game.

TMQ is awesome. Statistically proven to be four times more entertaining than that annoying Boston homer on ESPN.com.

by rzor on Sep 2, 2009 12:46 PM EDT reply actions  

I posted earlier..

That they should find a way to get Amani back..We have a slew of young receivers running around like ants..He could help teach them..Cut Moss and cut Manningham and bring Toomer back to teach the rest..

by Bobbiblue on Sep 2, 2009 1:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Ask yourself this...

If toomer caught those two screen passes vs the Jets (instead of Hagan) do you honestly think Toom coulda got those YAC?

I say no way…Hagan is hungry and fighting for a spot.

’09 Hagan > ’09 Toomer

by andiamo708 on Sep 2, 2009 1:54 PM EDT reply actions  

rearrange the letters in "lionspaw"

it spells “Man-crush on Toomer”

You play to win the game!

by Simms-McConkey on Sep 2, 2009 2:18 PM EDT reply actions  

In defense of Carr

Most of this is a repost of an earlier one which I had tacked on the end of another discussion.

Against the Jets:
No need to recap David’s performance in this game except to note that he stayed in the pocket and often had less than 3 seconds to throw.
And to note that all he did was with only 20 minutes left in the game.
Someone tried to downplay David’s passes to Nicks. The pass in the endzone was perfectly placed for no interception and Nicks caught it about 2 feet above the field, so it took no fantastic scoop off the turf. Again, on the 71-yard play, it was not a planned play, but heads-up thinking by Nicks and fortunately a quick read and adjustment by Carr.

Against Carolina :
David stayed in the pocket, except for one apparently planned rollout.
I have seen no mention of the TD pass from Carr that Manningham dropped in the end zone. Line of scrimmage was the 30, Carr dropped back almost 10 yards, threw it 5 yards deep into the end zone, for 45 yards in the air. It was not touched by a defender, hit MM right in his hands.

Minnesota on 12-28-08 — Carr’s only real playing time with the Giants:
The Giants were safely in the playoffs, while MN had to win, or depend on the Bears to lose, to make it into the playoffs. Manning played the first half, went 11 for 19, 119 yards, no TDs, with MN leading 10-9.
Carr started the second half, went 8 for 11, 110 yards no turnovers, no sacks, one TD, playing with many subs. When he left the game with 3 minutes left, the Giants had a 19-17 lead. The defense couldn’t hold and MN won on a last play FG. Not bad for a guy who had played only a few downs all year, playing with second-stringers against the starters of a team trying to make the playoffs for the first time in 4 years.

Carr vs. Schaub — at Houston:
Carr is tough as nails, while Schaub can’t take a punch. In 5 seasons with the worst o-line in pro ball, Carr started all 16 games in four of the seaons and missed only 4 games, all in his second season. In summary, he started 75 out of 80 games.
In those 5 seasons, he took 249 sacks. I saw him many times get hit before he even finished dropping back. Very often, turning around to have someone right in his face. I’ve seen as many as three rushers coming in apparently untouched. With that many sacks, he only lost 22 fumbles, or a 9% rate.
Schaub, with a much improved o-line and running game, despite being the first-string QB, has started only 22 games out of 32, or failed to start about 30% of his games, compared to Carr’s 6%. Schaub has been sacked 39 times and lost 7 fumbles, or an 18% rate, compared to Carr’s 9%.
Carr was a rookie QB on an expansion team. I can’t imagine a worse combination. Just coming into the NFL right out of college, having to play with all the discards around the NFL, second- and third- and no-stringers — having about 2 seconds or less to get rid of the ball. It’s a miracle he completed about 60% of his passes (68% in 2006) with as few interceptions as he had. His rate of interceptions per game is almost identical to Schaub’s.

Perspecitve:
Just trying to put things into perspective. Granted, he has picked up some bad habits while running for his life, but with a good line and more playing time, those should be worked out. He needs to just get rid of the ball rather than taking a sack. He may be trying too hard to make a play, but coaching should solve that.

by a12j02 on Sep 2, 2009 2:43 PM EDT reply actions  

David Carr is a good QB

But he’ll never start for the Giants..He still needs to recover from the beatings he took..He Still bails out when he shouldn’t..and We sure aren’t going to have our 98 Million Dollar MVP sit on the sidelines..This jazz about starting Carr is absolutely “NUTS”. He made a couple of nice passes to our rookies against second and third string defenses and still got his arse whacked from bailing out of the pocket too fast…His feet jump up and down so much in the pocket he could make a fine bottle of wine if they tossed some grapes out there. Meanwhile, Smith and Hixon drop pretty much everything Eli throws to them..I think we’ll see Nicks and Barden alot sooner than we thought and hoped for.

by Bobbiblue on Sep 2, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

the only way he starts is

is if, god forbid, eli goes down for the season in some freak injury. That’s literally the only way. I’m happy with him as a backup but never as a starter here.

by catsmeat84 on Sep 3, 2009 6:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Looks like BBV has made the big time

yesterday David Carr visited us to lobby for Eli’s job, and today Amani Toomer visited us to lobby to get re-signed.

by cjmulrain on Sep 2, 2009 4:14 PM EDT reply actions  

You Say Game Would Have Been 27-27

Don’t forget the Jets ran their 1st string offense against the Giants 2nd string defense for one drive that resulted in a FG.

by Be Driven on Sep 2, 2009 5:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Cut Hixon and Smith..

Bring Amani back to tutor and mentor Nicks and Barden, then retire him and his number.

by Bobbiblue on Sep 2, 2009 6:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Bring him back to retire yes

but don’t retire his number. Like I posted before, if Superbowl winner, 9 time pro bowler and Hall of Famer Harry Carson’s #53 is not retired, then 81 does not get retired. I think we are getting a little too emotional with Amani. Yes, he was a great receiver for the Giants, but I don’t see him getting his Jersey retired.

by njgiant on Sep 2, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Harry Carson's number should already be retired..what a shame..

He is an awesome man..a Tough player but a pure gentleman..I’ll never forget him picking up my 7 year old Son (who is now 30) ..He just had learned how to blow bubble gum..Harry picked him up and said: “What is that you have all over your face?” My Son said with a whimper:: “Bubble gum”..Harry set him down laughing..and my Son ran around behind my leg..and I told Harry: “Yea Harry I’ll protect him!”..We just laughed like crazy..He is a phenominal guy..that was 1985..He deserved the HOF..and number 53 should be retired.

by Bobbiblue on Sep 2, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

cutting hixon and smith

Bobbi, you are drinking the LionsPaw Kool-Aid

You play to win the game!

by Simms-McConkey on Sep 3, 2009 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe the final word

Let’s look at why people want Toomer back.

1. He is an experienced WR. True, but to help the Giants in 2009 he will either need to draw double coverage or he will get open quickly or deep. 2008 showed that he did not draw double coverage and had trouble getting open. As for a deep threat he did not have a play over 50 yards in 4 years. Yes the Dallas playoff game in 2007 was a long play but that was a curl route coupled with missed tackles.

2. He will mentor the young guys. Well Smith and Hixon were on the same team for two years with Toomer and if we are still complaining about them now Toomer did not mentor much in the last two years – so what will he teach them in an extra year. Plus it sounds like Nicks and Barden have the right attitude and will flourish without Toomer’s help.

3. So he can retire a Giant. No one has a problem with him signing a one day contract and retiring. However, Toomer still feels he can play in the NFL which is not shared by the Giants or the Chiefs.

On reflection we do not need Toomer to hamper the development of Nicks as I can see Nicks starting by season end instead of Hixon. This will be good as Hixon can then resume KR duties.

Finally, I mentioned about no 81 being retired. That was based on his setting most of the Franchise records at WR . I too would like 53 retired as well, but sadly the Giants are running out of numbers.

by G Fan in England on Sep 3, 2009 5:38 AM EDT reply actions  

+1

Can’t retire every damn number. Carson’s should be retired, not toomer. I doubt he’ll end up in the Hall.

by catsmeat84 on Sep 3, 2009 6:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

+2

Damn good post. Great points.

by njgiant on Sep 3, 2009 7:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

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