Welcome to the 'Meadowlands Madhouse'
by Ed Valentine on Sep 1, 2009 7:42 AM EDT
in New York Giants News
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PrintTypically, when you think of craziness surrounding a New York sports team the New York Yankees leap to mind. George Steinbrenner, the Bronx Zoo, the seemingly never-ending soap opera that is Alex Rodriguez, etc., etc.
Well, maybe it is time to revise that thinking. The 2009 Yankees are rolling efficiently, and fairly quietly, toward an American League East title. Not that far away, however, there always seems to be something not related to football going on with our New York Giants.
Welcome to the 'Meadowlands Madhouse.' Maybe not as sexy a nickname as the Bronx Zoo (if you have a better one, feel free to share), but it will do for now.
Think about it. Osi Umenyiora's little snit-fit Monday, in which he temporarily went AWOL after apparently not taking kindly to some criticism from new defensive coordinator Bill Sheridan is hardly the first unlikely distraction the Giants have dealt with in the past few seasons.
I will get back to Osi in a little bit. But, let's put him aside for now and run through the litany of other situations the Giants have had to deal with in recent seasons.
LET'S JUST LOOK at this season, for now.
- Plaxico Burress, of course. That started last season, and stretched halfway through training camp even though he was no longer a Giant.
- Antonio Pierce. The early part of training camp was filled with speculation about Pierce's possible punishment for his role in the Burress' mess. Thankfully, that worked out and it's over.
- There was the Michael Boley distraction in which he ended up suspended for beating his wife.
NOW, turn the clock back. For years, the Giants dealt with the guys I will refer to as The Three Divas.
- Jeremy Shockey finally whined his way out of town.
- Michael Strahan finally got his Super Bowl ring and walked off into the sunset. But not before putting the Giants through a couple of 'mini-Favre' will he play or won't he escapades. And having a few spats with Tom Coughlin. And trading some barbs with that other high-priced diva who played running back. We remember him, right?
- Tiki Barber. A great player, who should be remembered fondly as the best running back in franchise history. Because there is no doubt he was. Instead, he will be remembered by many (including yours truly) as a guy who put his personal agenda above the team and cared mostly about furthering his own objectives.
I'm sure there has been other stuff, but that is pretty much what leaps to mind. There always seems to be something other than football to talk about with the Giants.
SUDDENLY, OUT OF NOWHERE comes Umenyiora with a diva-esque move of his own.
Realize this. Modern athletes are coddled, given pretty much everything they want, always told how great they are by the people around them, and generally showered with adulation by fans. I watched Osi walk around the practice facility and the UAlbany dining area this summer, and that is the life he is used to. Criticized directly? Almost never.
So, when defensive coordinator Bill Sheridan apparently had some harsh words for Osi's play against the New York Jets, he reacted like a petulant child.
Newsday's Bob Glauber expressed the hope that maybe something good will come of all of this.
There's no telling whether Umenyiora's anger will flare again. After all, he and the rest of the Giants are making a somewhat difficult adjustment from beloved defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo, who could always put his arm around you and offer a word of encouragement. Sheridan is not the touchy-feely sort and can come off as more of a tough guy, especially compared with Spagnuolo.
Which is not a bad thing at all. In fact, whenever you hear a player complain that a coach is being too tough on him, that's usually a good thing in football. The time to worry is when a player feels too comfortable around his coaches. Nice guys generally don't survive very long in the NFL; Spagnuolo is the exception.
In the end, I believe yesterday's incident actually will turn into a good thing for Umenyiora and the Giants.
Hopefully, Glauber is right. Long-time Big Blue View readers know how I feel about Osi. For the newcomers, let me reiterate my stance on Osi.
He is a terrific talent, but when they are both equally healthy Justin Tuck is the Giants best lineman. To be honest, Umenyiora did not deserve his 2007 Pro Bowl berth. He had 13 sacks, but six in one game. That means only seven in the other 15, and that's the problem with Osi. As great as he can be, there are too many games in which he doesn't show up. Osi is not as great as he seems to think he is.
Look at Osi's career numbers. In five pro seasons, he has had what I consider to be one -- yes, one -- great season. That was back in 2005 when he registered 14.5 sacks and 96 tackles.
My point is this. Osi needs to stop bristling at criticism, stop whining about playing time and his contract, and play football.
In short, he needs to shut his mouth and prove to everyone that he is still the great player he thinks he is.
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Is Osi now the No 3 DE?
As I posted on another thread is there a chance that Kiwi has moved ahead of Osi on the depth chart?
Ed – I have not seen any of the games so who has looked the better in preseason Osi or Kiwi?
Hopefully Osi will now be fired up for the season – we could certainly use another six sack performance from him when we next play the Eagles!
by G Fan in England on Sep 1, 2009 7:46 AM EDT reply actions
Osi will stay as a starter
He has looked healthy and frisky. I have been expecting a terrific year from the guy up until now. He got himself out of position a few times Saturday night, and my guess is Sheridan called him on it. It’s one thing to get blocked out of a play. Another thing to be untouched and still completely run yourself out of a play.
Thanks
Ed – when do you expect Boley to make the starting lineup given all the time he has missed?
Do you think the week one starters be AP, Clark and Kehl?
by G Fan in England on Sep 1, 2009 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions
G Fan
Interesing questions.
1. Boley is aiming to play Week 2. I doubt he starts, at least until he plays a game or two and gets his feet wet.
2. AP, Clark and … drumroll, please … Wilkinson. If Wilkinson makes the team. He has been working ahead of Kehl lately. But, that could change.
Wilkinson
If Wilkinson is going to be the week 1 starter you would assume they would keep him around for the rest of the season, rather than cut him after one game to activate Boley.
If they are keeping Wilkinson who will go – I guess Blackburn as they have Kehl, Goff and Sintim as the young backups and Clark as the vet to cover all positions and Deossie is the long snapper.
What do you think?
by G Fan in England on Sep 1, 2009 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Blackburn
Absolutely won’t go. He’s big on special teams and he’s AP’s understudy.
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Sep 1, 2009 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Osi will most likely start
I’d expect Kiwanuka to be used primarily in passing situations as a pass-rushing DE. Osi is too good not to be used as a starter on the D-line.
However, the Giants have so much depth on the line that ESPN even asked if we have too much depth. They pondered the possibility that the Giants’ D-line cuts would be snapped up by other teams immediately.
He had ONE good season?
since when is 64 TT tackles and 13 sacks not good? 7 sacks in the other 15 games isn’t really something to sneeze at either, considering how many times he gets close (and sometimes that’s good enough.
He also had 76 tackles and 7 sacks in his second season (as season in which Strahan had 18.5 sacks…so there really weren’y many others to go around—-and many could be attributed to Osi moving the QB out the pocket, not to take anything at all away from Strah).
What I get out of this, Osi and Sheridan had a Todd Haley vs. Boldin type spat. Osi thinks he’s completely healthy, the Giants and Sheridan don’t want to overwork him in the preseason, where Osi loves to come down with major injuries.
We need Os and Tuck, that much is true. He got pissed and made a bad decision. From a guy who this might be his only minor transgression, I don’t know how he factors in with some of those other knuckleheads.
GODZZIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!
I like Osi
and think he’s a good football player (and yes, he’s had more than 1 good season). We also have a good indication of how much Osi means to this D (last year) and he has tons of talent.
That being said, Ed’s major point is valid. Osi has had a few diva moments in the same vain as the Three Divas (that’s where he’s being lumped). That doesn’t mean he’s a criminal, but it’s still a distraction. He also disappears at times. You can point to several games from the SB year when you didn’t even know he was on the field. The best thing for Osi would be for him to check his ego at the door and just play football. We praise ARod for doing it this year in baseball. We should recognize other favorites of ours that need to do the same.
Read Ed's comments again, FB
One “great season.,” not one “good season.” I’m on the record during the 13 sack season as maintaining that Osi was overrated AY THAT TIME, because:
1.Opposing teams were giving Stray double coverage; Osi, single.
2.The seven sacks in the Eagles game were vs. a mediocre DT and the Eagles, focusing on Stray, gave the guy no help.
WOD, Osi’s a really good player, but, as Ed says, Tuck is the best DE the Giants have. Kiwi and Osi are pretty close in terms of talent as DEs IMO, although Kiwi is more talented as an all around player (having played LB.) The Giants are fortunate to have both of them. I have confidence the coaching staff will do everything possible to maximize their contributions to the success of the team.
My point is this
The numbers in the 13-sack season are misleading. He had one great game in which he got six of those. That left 15 games in which he accumulated just seven — which you have to admit is mediocre for a guy who considers himself among the elite defensive ends. In that 2007 season there were two games in which he made zero tackles, and five other games in which he made two or less. Too many games in which he simply did not show up. And remember, Strahan was drawing the double teams.
We need Osi healthy and productive — and he can be a great player. I just want to see it on the field because I think he spends too much time living off his reputation.
them's fighting words
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Sep 2, 2009 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Miss Spags yet?
As i posted in the letter to AP before this mis-hap, I miss Spags more and more every day!
Sheridan is fired after our doesn’t live up to expectations, Regardless if it’s his fault or not… Gotta have a fall guy!
Sheridan fired?
Before the season starts?
C.mon.
Have you forgotten how the D performed in their first two regular seasons games when spags took over?
Very True
80 points against, shaky defense on all fronts, a misplaced pass-rushing DE playing as a zone LB, etc. Once Spags started utilizing the blitz the following week, it all began to come together for the Giants.
If there’s anything Giants fans should know about through experience, its that being patient with guys can pay off. Coughlin & Eli after 4 years, Spags after two games, Simms after his first 6 years, Parcells after his 3-12-1 debut season, etc. etc. etc.
After i said
Never said before season… maybe that comment goes to someone else i dunno but i clearly stated after he doesn’t live up to expectations… they’ll give him a season for sure…
I can agree with that, with the proviso that, unless he's an obvious,
absolute complete disaster, he’ll get more than one season. It’s still too soon to be even contemplating firing him.
Good point..
I can’t arguee with that other then i got a gut feeling he might just be a complete disaster… here’s hoping to him not being though!
Strahan was nothing like Farve...
I can’t believe you are equating Strahan’s indecision to come back with Farve’s typical nonsene!!!!
Strahan had no reason to come back after winning the SB. The Giants KNOCKED ON HIS DOOR…he didn’t come to the Giants when Osi went down. I think any individual would contemplate a nice contract offer for a week or two.
He made the right decision not to come back when he quoted LT by saying “when you get tired of hitting people its time to retire”…thats how he felt at that point in time. It would have been only for the money to come back…and that’s not the RIGHT ATTITUDE to play NY GIANTS FOOTBALL!!!
I know that
My only point was that Strahan had a good amount of diva in him, as much as we loved him.
how does Strahan's situation equate with diva like behavior?
it’s simple:
1) Strahan has HOF career, gets his SB ring, retires.
2) Giants come running to him with nice contract when Osi goes down
3) Strahan contemplates coming out of retirement for the money
4) He stays retired bc its the right thing to do
Strahan didn’t go back and forth on his word, did the lead the Giants astray…he simply took his time to evaulate his life —> I think the avg Joe would do the same
Not a diva
well, he liked attention,
who doesn’t? But ultimately, I think he was just skipping training camp because he knew he didn’t need it!
Re: Osi, boy we can be harsh on some of our great players at this blog. Sometimes, when you’re about to lose your shit and strangle somebody, the best thing you can do is remove yourself from the situation, because you know that you can’t possibly feed anything positive into the situation. Sounds like that’s what happened with my boy Osi. Can’t fault him there. Big deal. Overblown.
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Sep 1, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
ed didn't go into details
But there was a flare-up over Strahan’s last contract. The Giants always (or at least at the time) spread signing bonuses over two years. Stray wanted it all up front, Tiki publicly sided against Strahan.
And Stray didn't start with the diva tendencies until after he'd
demonstrated he was great (not good.) Osi began with that “Chief” when he was still virtually an unknown to anyone but Giants’ fans
Yes
They most likely did..Ultimately it is the players job to produce..As I commented in a prior post, these guys can be awesome, if they think and play as a “unit”..We cannot afford individual Egos coming into play..If your boss says you sucked, then you must have sucked..grin, bear it and move on..Get with the program.
I can't imagine the new breed of players
(and most don’t fit that category) playing for a coach like Lombardi (or Parcells, even though he cut plenty of slack for LT—one of the five greatest football players of all time.) As for the New Breed, yea verily:
“The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be, and that which is done, is that which shall be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.”
Ed don't you think your being a little harsh on Osi?
I mean, this is his first offense, and everyone is prone to having a bad day. when your superior gets in your face, emotions are high, sometimes a negative reaction begets a negative reaction. I’ve been there myself, yet ppl at my job still love me. One bad day doesn’t make for a bad employee.
First offense
for leaving the team, yes. But he’s been a pain about his contract in the past and definitely has an overinflated view of himself. That’s where the diva stuff is coming from and explains why he would be the one to walk out on his job after being criticized. He’s not being lionized here. We’re just hoping he can become a little more humble. He’ll be a better player for it.
Hehe, and what half decent athlete hasn’t complained about his contract? Especially in the NFL, where they’re not guaranteed? Osi’s not the first, certainly won’t be the last.
And not for nothing, i’d rather have a player on my team that’s confident in there ability, whether its really there or not. We want these guys to have this pre programmed defeatist attitude to them, well i don’t think that’s a confidence booster. and confidence counts.
And what kind of players do we want here … ones that vocally complain about their contract and it blows out of proportion at times or ones that keep that (& other stuff) in house and we don’t have to hear about it and its not a distraction? I’m just saying I wish Osi would keep it in house. Don’t tell me all good athletes complain about their contract to anyone who will listen. We’ve got a roster full of guys that don’t.
save the castrastion is all i'm saying
I get what you’re saying, but we don’t call him St. Osi for a reason. Everyone will do something that will rub someone the wrong way. now if this is a reocurring theme, then i’m with you. but let’s not cast boulders at the fella yet.
And i seem to remember Big Boy Jacobs letting it be known that he wanted starting money, and answered honestly in interviews. Yet we don’t hold that against him.
Two things
I think you are wrong about Jacobs. He wanted starter money & wan’t getting it so he broke off contract talks and let his play do the talking. Then he took below market money to stay with the team. He actually should be used as an example.
Secondly, no one is “castrating” Osi here. We’re just asking him to be a little more humble, keep this stuff in house, & not walk out on his team. What’s so hard about that?
by potroast on Sep 1, 2009 3:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Osi had a knee jerk reaction, did something dumb, apologized immediately. thus, this should be a non issue. yet and still, you guys are keeping it going. it reminds me of the wife or girlfriend who you say something dumb too, immediately apologize for it, but yet your constantly reminded about it whenever you do something wrong. that is and will be the case with Osi, just let it ride, osi’s a trooper, he bleeds blue, doesn’t rock the boat, let this one infraction SLIDE!!! what’s so hard about that?
Lionized
and he’s certainly not being canonized
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Sep 1, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe so
But, you never — ever — bolt on your team, teammates and coaches like that. Keep your complaints in-house and have it out with the coach.
everyone has a bad day of work...
I’ve walked out…i even quit once…my boss gave me two weeks off and I came back…these things happen in life.
the only thing that bothered me about Osi was his appearance on Monday night football last year when we lost to the Browns.
He was very cocky…trying to be funny, but came across very arrogant. Not to mention we got embarrassed that game.
Tuck...
One thing I would like to say…Let’s see how Tuck plays this year…hes’ been very quite in the pre season and i’m sick to my stomach thinking that it could be the bone spurrs again.
remember Osi has been doing it a lot longer than Tuck.
Good point, but
Tuck was better earlier than Osi.
Yeah, the bone spurs are a concern. You can play with them, but it changes your game. I remember Earl the Pearl playing with them (and arthiritic joints as well.) It was painful to watch how gingerly he moved. After he got to the Knicks, he’d scarcely ever leave his feet. He remained a marvel though, good enough to make All-Pro and HOF. At least with the Knicks he didn’t have to carry the team as he did in Baltimore.
If it is bone spurs, I hope Tuck opts for surgery.
9 linebackers
Some people count sheep when they lie in bed at night, some count roster positions. That would be me. My latests version does have the Giants keeping 9 linebackers for a total of 27 defensive players. That leaves 24 slots for the offense and 2 for the kickers. So how the the 24 offensive slots look? Like this:
3 RBs
1 FB
3 QBs
3 TEs
6 WRs
8 OLs
I came to this conclusion because they obviously gotta keep DeOssie, but he’s not really a functional linebacker. And, I think they keep players based on talent as well as position. The young linebackers have more talent than some of the other players who could be kept around to fill out other positions, such as running back, wide receiver, and OL. The only way this changes, in my book, is if they manage to trade one of the 9 linebackers.
by hopeforthefuture3 on Sep 1, 2009 12:48 PM EDT reply actions
that sounds right for offence
the normal is that maybe 9 OL but here is the question….who are our 5th and 6th corners this year…woodson is cut already b/c of the injury wright has not looked to good…is it going to be those two johnsons….we have a great group of 4 corners with ross webster dockery and thomas but the depth behind them is weak no??
by shenkthetank592 on Sep 1, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Bruce Johnson
Looked like doo-doo every time I noticed him this preseason
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Sep 1, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
9 OL
I agree that 9 OL would be better, but is there a prospect for the 9th position (after Beatty, Reyes, Koets)? No pointing in keeping a body if he can’t do the job. Better to keep someone who can play in the NFL even if it’s in a position that’s loaded.
by hopeforthefuture3 on Sep 1, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
well boothe is a lock to make the team
the giants love boothe and maybe wimper makes the team over koets
by shenkthetank592 on Sep 1, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Having read everyones very insightful comments..
I maintain that the last thing our team needs is a controversy at this phase of the season..We have a defense that has not yet gelled together and an offense that has not yet done much either in the passing game, that includes Eli..The team needs to get things together quickly..We are only a couple of weeks away from getting embarrassed by Washington if they don’t..That would be a major disaster. Dallas is looking really sharp…that is scary..Philly is hurting from injuries and McNabb is already starting to complain about Vick disrupting the flow of their offense, so I’m less concerned with them..If we are not careful, we’ll be the ones with paper bags on our heads with our version of: “Who dat?..Who dat said their going to beat our Jints!! Who dat?!?”
Madhouse??? I don't think so...
Come on…I would think that if you were to examine all the teams, the Giants are the most disciplined.
As for Osi, disappointing but I think he is under self pressure as he knows if he has been playing up to his level of expectation or potential. Sheridan probably highlighted this and BAM! he gets ultra defensive. To be expected by a young guy and hopefully this is a good lesson and maybe a positive statement on “control” of the D by Sheridan.
I also was expecting too much from the D but with all the guys the have I was expecting near domination. Hopefully they will in real games with 4 qtrs and their ability to rotate guys in and out vs tired O lines
agreed
When Osi starts dating Madonna and turns up positive steroid tests, then you’re onto something
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Sep 2, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I think that’s messed up thay everybody is getting on osi…. nobody knows what happend at the meeting… I think osi well deserved to be at the pro bowl because we were the SB champs and we only had 1 player going to the PB….. so if he did not deserved to go then nobody from the giants should have been on the PB that year…. its just pre season tuck and osi are going to show there real game when the season starts…. let’s leave this behind us and worry our players get healthy… osicame back and said he was sorry and had no problems with sheridan….
I wouldn't go as far as to say it's a Madhouse..
But these players need to get it together like right quick..I think Osi realized that almost immediatley and came back in to apoligize..The only player we were lucky enough to have that could singlehandedly take over control of a game was the “Real” L.T…We don’t have that anymore so they need to collectively work together as a unit..and NYCITY your right..but Pro bowls don’t make HOF players.. Playing does..We’re not interested in the NFL version of the Emmy Awards..the stupid Pro-bowl..Who watches that thing?
Osi is an enigma
He’s such a fluid athlete, but he comes off as very brash etc. He definitely has a swagger, but one of the reasons his sack level isn’t higher is because Tim Lewis (i know, how dare i say his name) seemed to love to drop him back into coverage. I think that Osi will have a huge year this year though even if it means him slouching against the run a little. Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis don’t ever play the run, but they’re considered two of the best defensive ends in football. As long as Osi doesn’t disappear for games at a time like he did in the ’07 season. I have no doubt in my mind about one thing, Osi is the second best defensive end on the Giants and was probably the third best during the ’07 season.
President of the Ramses Barden Fan Club
One good thing that comes of this...
i no longer have to read comments about how Sheridan “doesn’t’ get in the players faces”…
Linebackers
Sticking by my guns—I don’t think any will be cut, although one might be traded. Also, I don’t think Goff are Kehl are superstars of the future, although Sintim might be. I think our first round pick next year goes to a middle linebacker.
by hopeforthefuture3 on Sep 1, 2009 5:50 PM EDT reply actions
As our recent history has shown...
…perhaps it may be wise to hold onto all the LBs. They drop like flies toward the end of the season for us.
I have not been impressed w/ Clark. Blackburn makes the team, no question. If AP’s in, Chase takes Clark’s spot. Goff has had too good a preseason to not make this squad. Wilkinson is def on the bubble, but he’s a talented player and I think he can be a large impact player w/ a lil more tutelage. Kehl’s made some noise, but is it enough to hold him a spot?
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