Giants are a work in progress
by Ed Valentine on Aug 31, 2009 10:00 AM EDT
in News
51 comments
Let's talk about expectations. We all expect our New York Giants to be a very good football team. There is no reason that should not be the case. We hope they end up being good enough to win their second Super Bowl in three seasons.
That, of course, is what we all want. There is no way to know whether it will happen -- there are simply too many variables to consider between now and February 2010.
Now, let's talk about the collision between expectations and reality. After Saturday night's 27-25 loss to the New York Jets the Giants are -- gasp! -- 1-2 in the pre-season. And, horror or horrors, they have not looked like a perfectly well-oiled machine in those three games.
Did you really expect the entire season to be smooth sailing? No hiccups? Did you really think the passing game would be firing on all cylinders BEFORE the regular season got under way? That there would never be miscues and that we would know exactly how everything was going to work out? That Hakeem Nicks would play like a Pro Bowler as soon as he put on the uniform? That our Steve Smith would suddenly morph into THE Steve Smith just because we wanted him to? That there would not be any adjustment period for a defense with a new coordinator, a bunch of new players and a lot of guys coming off fairly serious injuries?
If you did -- and juding from the comments in Saturday's game thread and Sunday's follow-up posts I know there are some of you out there -- then you really need to re-examine your expectations.
Let's look specifically at the expectations for the wide receivers, since there has been so much focus on that group after they spent much of Saturday night treating the football like a live grenade. You had to know coming into the season that there would be bumps in the road as Tom Coughlin and company figured out which guys could do what, and as these players learn and improve.
Should we be alarmed that Smith dropped that long touchdown pass? Disappointed, sure. Alarmed, maybe not. Maybe what Smith was showing you is that he really is what we have seen the past two years -- a classic possession receiver who runs great routes, catches balls in traffic and can always be counted on for key third-down conversions. If that's what he is, what's wrong with that?
Maybe Domenik Hixon is showing us that what he really is is a third wide receiver who can be a useful part of the passing game, and a quality return man, but not a dominating receiver. Nothing wrong with that, unless you are expecting the second coming of Jerry Rice.
Hakeem Nicks is beginning to show us that selecting him with the 29th pick of the first round was a good idea. He runs the correct routes, catches the ball, can make the spectacular play, and is savvy enough to make the right read when he has options in his route. Is he as good, and as consistent, as he will be in Week 12 -- or next season? Probably not. But the more he plays -- and he will play a lot -- the better he will get. Coughlin is already hinting at an expanded role for Nicks.
Mario Manningham is also flashing oodles of potential -- and making his share of mistakes. Manningham, though, is a glorified rookie. He is a wild stallion who hasn't been broken yet -- and when the Giants finally do break him they might have one helluva horse on their hands. Again, he should be better at the end than he will be at the beginning.
Ramses Barden and Travis Beckum have shown potential, but the Giants really haven't figured out ways to utilize them yet. In Barden's case, especially, I think Tom Coughlin and Kevin Gilbride will find ways to get him on the field as the season progresses.
These young players will develop, and in the end the Giants could well have an exceptionally dangerous group. But, to expect perfection from the beginning is simply not realistic.
Also, while there will be mistakes -- especially at the start -- I am hardly ready to panic. Smith is a reliable possession guy. I have to assume more balls will be thrown toward Kevin Boss once the games begin to count. He has been under-utilized as the Giants try to assess their wide receivers. The Giants also still have that top-notch line and one of the best running attacks anywhere.
As for the defense, we expect it to be dominant. I have little doubt that it will be, even if that has not been the case yet. Reality is, like the receiving corps this group should be carrying around an 'under construction' sign.
There is the new coordinator. And the players can say what they want, but there is still an adjustment going on for both Bill Sheridan and for them. There are a lot of new faces on defense to assimilate. Antonio Pierce has barely played. Michael Boley hasn't practiced yet. Chris Canty and Aaron Ross are hurting. The Giants have made some defensive mistakes -- which we all should have expected at this point. The good news is many of those mistakes have been made by guys we should expect to make them -- guys who either won't play much or won't make the team at all. So, no use worrying about those.
Honestly, the Giants need their defense to come together quicker than their offense. Giving the offense a cushion to develop is why GM Jerry Reese spent $83 million to bulk up the defense.
For me, I will worry more about how quickly the defense finds itself than I will about the receivers. The Giants built this team thinking that group would be dominant from the beginning as the offense worked to find its footing. Right now, it's really Sheridan & Co. that should be feeling the weight of expectations, not quarterback Eli Manning and his stable of young receivers.
Things will be fine. Remember, with a Super Bowl championship and an NFC East crown the past two seasons, Giants fans have been spoiled. This group is immensely talented, but it is a different group than that of the past two seasons. It will take time to fit all the pieces. Just expect a few bumps, and have the patience to let the situation develop. I think the end result is going to be a good one.
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Great post Ed
We do have high expectations for this team. I also think there is a lot of impatience too, unfortunately. This is the same formula we had 2 years ago. The defense stunk at first, but when they finally gelled, they were great. Same thing this year. The pieces are there, they (both defense and receiving corps) have to gel. I do belive that by week 3 or 4 the D will be clicking and Nicks may crack the starting lineup by then also.
I also think this is the year that we finally get to drop the “inconsistant” label that follows Eli. For the life of me, I can’t figure how Eli can complete 60% of his passes and be labeled inconsistant while another qb can complete 60% and be called accurate. Eli will have a breakout year with his no name receivers and the D will come together.
The long and short of it all, we should have a lot of expectations for this team but we also need a little patience.
My two cts
is that I’m worried about AP. I wonder if he is starting to slow down at 31.
I’m also worried that at wide receiver we’ve replaced quality with quantitiy. I like that Manning distributes the passes around, but I fear that without a top notch receiver like Plax was, Manning is not as good a quarterback. I think Manning needs a Plax type reciever to boost his confidence, even if he doesn’t pass to his number one receiver. Maybe the work in progress is the best way to word it.
I'm going the opposite direction coop
I think Manning’s confidence is higher than ever and he will do better with receivers that will listen to him and not dictate to him. He’s no longer a kid at qb, he’s now The Man.
The highlights
of the Giants-Jets are posted over at the Jets SBN site, and frankly, drops aside, the Giants looked good in that game. They chose to go for 2 twice, to try some plays (and perhaps avoid overtime in the 1st instance, which makes the score basically 27-27…
I think they look good but who knows how the season will progress. Mostly I’m just worried what I’m reading today about Tuck’s foot. losing him this year or having him ineffective would be as much a blow as losing Osi last year.
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Aug 31, 2009 11:17 AM EDT reply actions
I agree!
Our team is a work in progress. With the Plax and Toomer gone the recievers are fresh. I think they will mesh soon. The defense is outstanding! When all the players are back and fresh they will click for sure. Im excited for this season. The preseason is to work kinks out. Thats why there is a preseason. When the regular season starts Washington is going to be in trouble for the season opener!
D needs to come on
so O can progress into a legitimate threat.
A few weeks in the O will be better and able to carry additional responsibility for Wins. Not at the outset. Ed has that right.
All I want is the playoffs. NFC East title would be nice but all I want is the playoffs. A bye and home field advantage did not help last year.
Ah the voice of reason, much
needed after the posts during the Jets game. Good work, Ed.
All will be well.
WRs
Hey Ed (and all), if today was 9/12, what’s your depth chart at WR going into the 1st game?
Personally, I’d go:
Smith
Nicks
Hixon (so he can return kicks as well)
Manningham
Barden
Hagan
Moss
I’m kinda surprised they haven’t gone to Barden in the red zone with a fade or jump ball, maybe they’re saving it for the real games? Especially when we’re still stalling there…
I'd switch Nicks over Smith..and Barden over Manningham..and
I am really thinking Hagan over Hixon
That is Giant football!
Bobbi, it’s so true, our Giant roots are totally in the Defense and Running game, I mean Simms-Mconkey is our history, Hostetler – Mowatt?!
Cmon guys Amani was good for so many years, Plax spoiled us in more ways than one but we are not a run and gun team and Nicks only needs to replace the former guy not the latter for us to be the team that wins it all again.
Very good point
We can win without a superstar receiver. Giants teams have done it before. We just need guys t make plays when they are called upon.
by Ed Valentine on Aug 31, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Not panicking here.
It’s preseason. Eli is looking decent, Nicks is coming on, Jacobs is trucking along as usual. Clint Sintim is looking like a real steal. Only concern is injuries but evey year you worry about injuries really.
We are a spoiled bunch these last 2 seasons, as Ed says. That’s to the credit of Reese, Coughlin, and Co. They set the bar high for themselves.
Cautious Optimism
We could be 11-5 and just as easily be 5-11 this year, especially in our Division. Our defense will be counted on to win games for our team and our coaching staff will show their true colors this year. Here’s to what will definately be an interesting season.
And what is up with those new blue jerseys? We look like an NFL Europe team with those things. The big fellas #s and names are all crooked.
See ya at kickkoff!!! Section 127 – Time to get loud!!! LET’S GO DEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Last year in Sec 127 on Aug 31, 2009 12:16 PM EDT reply actions
It is our tradition..
The defense runs off the field and tells the offense to “Hold’em”!!
Unless Nicks catches 23 balls vs. the Patriots
There seems to be little question that the chart goes:
Smith
Hixon
Manningham
Nicks/Moss
Barden
Hagan
Personally I’d like to see Hicks & Barden start kicking ass so soon but, that’s just a fan’s perspective
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Aug 31, 2009 12:23 PM EDT reply actions
Good post
Solid post, Ed. This is not necessarily my typical reaction, but I agree that there is no reason to allow ourselves to have such knee-jerk reactions to all of this.
Nicks: he was thrown the ball an unusually high number of times in that game, check Garafalo’s post, but I think he was targeted 12X. Clearly Gilbride wanted to see what he has in Nicks, so he gave him a huge workload to see how he handled it – and we can all agree that he definitely passed the test.
Mario: this kid has an enormous amount of RAW talent. I emphasize “raw” – because clearly he needs more repetitions. However, I am REALLY looking forward to seeing Mario on the field as the 4th or even 5th WR because I think if Eli can get him the ball in space and Mario can just do what comes naturally…wow; look out.
S. Smith: I think the drop was a definite anomaly considering what we’ve seen out of him in big games (ie solid hands) – so I am willing to take a preseason drop (with the caveat that it doesn’t becomes a trend).
Barden: he’s super talented as well and I think has proven that in the pre-season – clearly he will be a factor in the red zone.
One final note on Moss: it’s time for him to go. Cut him, waive him, trade him, whatever – he has had AMPLE opportunities to make something (anything!) happen on this team and he’s never been equal to the challenge. Buh-bye.
Spoiled
Boy its as if you were reading my mind. I was thinking, that after the ’07 season maybe us Giants fans had gotten a little spoiled and complacent.
I look around the NFL and it’s not as if the G-men are the only team having problems with WRs and injuries. Look at the Eagles and their injury problems.
What’s that saying about the NFL season being a marathon not a sprint….
REBUILDING
Good post, honest and thoughtful. I do think this team has talent, but that this season is not when it gels. The way things look now, they will get better as the season progresses, but not quickly enough to compete in a very tough division that has amped up — seriously, watch out for Dallas, they will be good. I stand by what I said watching the Jets game:
8-8. 9-7 at best. Miss the playoffs. Next year: better chance as the young ’ens mature.
How can you say 8-8?
We are going to have the best defense in the league..A great running game and I think the staff will figure out the reciever situation…Our coaches are trying to evaluate..players while other teams are trying to win pre-season games..big deal..Once our team gets hooked up together watch out.
I'll say it again: 8-8.
First half of the season: The defense will not be stellar. Tuck will be slowed. Osi will be double teamed, the free agency reinforcements aren’t near ready to play, and when they are will take half a season to be effective. The great running game will be stifled due to ineffective WR’s. The O line will disappoint. I guarantee you, pay me at the mid-way point when my sharp eye proves me correct.
Second half of the season: Better. Challenge for a wild card slot, but come up short, not able to overcome a slow, and some might say, disastrous start.
pay me at the mid-way point when my sharp eye proves me correct.
One of us needs glasses or contacts because I’m not seeing the same disaster that you are seeing.
Different outlook on 1st half
zilla, i think the 1st 7 games are actually somewhat of a cakewalk, and that 5-2 is in the cards. peep it:
Sun 9/13 Washington 4:15 pm – home opener, Wash still has alot to prove, thats a WIN
Sun 9/20 at Dallas 8:20 pm – just to be fair, i’ll call it a LOSS. either way, first 2 games are split at worst.
Sun 9/27 at Tampa Bay 1:00 pm – WIN. there not good, on either side of the ball.
Sun 10/4 at Kansas City 1:00 pm – WIN. can’t even agree who’s calling offensive plays
Sun 10/11 Oakland 1:00 pm – WIN to make it 3 in a row.
Sun 10/18 at New Orleans 1:00 pm – WIN. sorry, N.O. i’m just not convinced there THAT good.
Sun 10/25 Arizona 8:20 pm – LOSS. AZ has alot of confidence as the runner ups.
so that’s 5-2 in the first 7. I’ll admit the second half of the skedge is rougher, but by then Eli will have gotten into a grove with at least 2 of his receivers, along with Boss who he’s already comfy with. The wideouts will feel more confident heading into the second half torching underachieving secondaries (read Oakland, Dallas, KC, and TB) and that will propel them through the harder weeks. Do you want to revisit your first half collapsing theory, or do you feel we’ll get run through by the vaunted talent of no OC/KC, ten men on the field Tampa(no QB), and the Al Davis’ travelling circus?
sorry but that means nothing...
i remember last year looking at our schedule and thinking…wow, the browns…we beat the crap outta them in pre season that’s a guaranteed WIN. It was probably the most embarrassing lost of the season.
Not only did we play horrible but we had to deal with Osi on Monday night football acting like a classless jerk. Praising the Giants and acting like Cleveland was no big deal…he really put his foot in his mouth that night.
Let’s not start counting wins this far in advance. Are only concern is week 1 and beating the ’skins.
I was more rebutting Zilla then attempting to be a prognasticator
well zilla counted the whole season so i’m not as bad as him! LOL
sorry, it’s human nature to look at schedules and attempt to predict the strong and weak points of it. at some point this season, yes i believe the giants will drop a game that they were huge favorites in. It won’t be those three, barring any major injuries. IMHO.
Growing pains
My memory maybe faulty but I think the Giants started the season 0-2 in 86 when they won the superbowl and were10-0 before Simms went down the year they scraped by Buffalo in the sb. By the way where is Scott Norwood? No doubt one of the networks is considering the Scott and Matt(Millen) Show. I’m pretty sure the Jints were written off in every playoff game in 07 so 9-7 KMA.
Giants began the '86 season 1-1.
Lost to the Cowboys in a close one on opening day.
Destroyed the Chargers, I believe, the next week.
What about 2007
If memory serves me, which it rarely does, weren’t we like 0-2 and about to go 0-3 without a great comeback/goal line stand against the ’Skins. ===> Superbowl victory.
by hopeforthefuture3 on Aug 31, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
The fourth and 17..in Minnesota sent
Our guys to the Super Bowl..Undefeated from that win on..
No, Scott kept going far right.
He now leads the Bumluck Patriots, a militia in Bumluck, Idaho
Norwood is probably home..
“Kicking” himself in the arse.
idk
i still think that we shud have kept amani. there are still some positives that come from having a quality veteran that a surplus of rookies cant match.
Love this post.
That’s the kind of awesome perspective that keeps me coming back here, Ed – thank you!
"We were very much aware of that. There was a lot of phone call-type things going on in the room." -- Tom Coughlin
Thank God it's football season
When are you going to change that avitar? Stop the self torture already.
Ok, Mr. Jersey Giant, I'll stop the self torture right after you do.
"We were very much aware of that. There was a lot of phone call-type things going on in the room." -- Tom Coughlin
Give me at least until week 6
We should know how good our Gmen will be by then. I do think that I’ll me able to carry my avitar or 16 weeks and then some. I give you a ton of credit for being a true fan. I still can’t say “New York Mets” without laughing. That unassisted triple play sums up their whole season. I feel for ya.
Take all season!
I love your logo. But it has a Y in it. Capeesh?
"We were very much aware of that. There was a lot of phone call-type things going on in the room." -- Tom Coughlin
Hey,
I’m from Jersey and the Giants and Jets play in Jersey. I can’t help it if they can’t get it right.
Don't beat yourself up about it, big guy, it's ok!
I feel for ya though. I really do.
"We were very much aware of that. There was a lot of phone call-type things going on in the room." -- Tom Coughlin
yes, a good post ed...
i was over at MG’s place the other days and I swear some of the giants fans were just completely giving up on this year….and it’s only pre season.
Also, Boley is not longer on the PUP and should be working with the team this week.
Gmen
Right on brother,all these things take time.preseason is just that.We’ll be ready when it counts!
Tom Tallmadge Sr
Great Article Ed
Stuff like this is what keeps me checking BBV several times a day.
A lot of negative thoughts floating around, but I’ve felt the Giants are much better later in the game which is something a preseason game can’t show. To me, Eli plays better in the clutch minutes, and we pull off our best runs after Jacobs has worn down the defense for us to throw our second back in to run against exhausted defenders. For me, the preseason is a good way to show off talent and get guys prepared. I feel a lot more optimistic about Nicks after the last game, and realize I may have to start visiting church more often to make sure Kenny Phillips stays healthy so that I never have to see C.C. Brown start a game.
no
amani would have stayed had we offered him the right situation
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