Where have all the linemen gone?
by Ed Valentine on Aug 24, 2009 7:00 AM EDT
in News
52 comments
Chris Canty (via assets.nydailynews.com)
I was on the radio Saturday morning, as I was invited to talk about our New York Giants on 'GameFace,' (www.espn940.com). I bring this up not to toot my own horn -- though that doesn't hurt -- but, rather, because of one of the questions I was asked.
My answer was that it was way too soon to begin discussing that stuff. Today, barely two days later, that question seems downright silly.
Remember that five-man rotation the Giants were supposed to have at defensive tackle? Well, now Jay Alford's season might be over. Chris Canty has a torn hamstring and there is no word on when he might be able to play. Fred Robbins played a few snaps on Saturday, but he is working his way back from micro-fracture surgery and is nowhere near being ready to be counted on for a large number of snaps. Rocky Bernard has only practiced for a couple of days and is still very limited. The only reasonably healthy member of the defensive line the Giants thought they would have is Barry Cofield, and he also had knee surgery in the off-season.
Heap on top of all that injuries to Antonio Pierce, Kenny Phillips and Aaron Ross, and the injury/suspension of Michael Boley. Of those four only Ross -- in a limited way -- is expected on the field today at UAlbany for the second-last practice of training camp.
Suddenly, the whipping the Giants took up front Saturday against Chicago doesn't really look all that surprising.
"Until we get this thing straightened around with everybody on the field, this rotation and this depth that we are talking about really is a non-factor right now. We need people practicing and we need to be able to accomplish that," coach Tom Coughlin said Sunday. "I just think that for so long we have been (hearing) that we have so much depth. I don’t know what you are watching, but the guys who are supposed to be the depth have hardly even practiced. Some haven’t practiced, some haven’t played. I think you are talking about something that looks good, but hasn’t really materialized."
There are areas of concern just like there are on every team. But I think you have to earn that is said about you. What we believe in is that talk is cheap, let’s do it on the field. It has been very spotty on the field, so obviously it is time to get to work and get this the way we want it to be, for people to come to grips with the reality and be serious about making these corrections and then go out against a good football team and accomplish that and see if we can get it done on the field"
I just think that for so long we have been (hearing) that we have so much depth. I don’t know what you are watching, but the guys who are supposed to be the depth have hardly even practiced. Some haven’t practiced, some haven’t played. I think you are talking about something that looks good, but hasn’t really materialized."
Fred Robbins (via blog.nj.com)
Saturday against the New York Jets you will likely be watching guys named Anthony Bryant, Leger Douzable and Jeremy Clark take a lot of snaps.
Yes, there is time before the September 13 opener against Washington. Time for Robbins and Bernard to round into shape. Maybe time for Canty to get healthy. Maybe time for Alford to discover his knee isn't as bad as we think it is.
This is not, however, the start the Giants had in mind when they collected all of this defensive talent.
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Alford
Despite the big-name signings, I think Alford was the latest in a string of guys who have come out as killers with the Giants a la Osi, Tuck. Obv. Osi thought enough of the guy to do offseason together. I saw the play and his knee bent sideways it seemded to about 75 degrees. It was sickening and if anybody wants 2-to-1 that he plays this year, I’ll take he doesn’t. I hate to say it. Hoping for the best, but not expecting much more good news there. Time for Canty & Bernard to man up and be something.
You play to win the game!
Frack!
Wasn’t there an opinion circling around back in the day that the Giant’s had fewer serious injuries because they had a strength coach (Johnny Perkins? not sure ) who advocated free weights over the modern machines? And that the extra force and focus need to keep the free weights under control was the reason for the Giant’s lower rate of injuries. I still hear about this once in a while. I think he also worked for the Bucs down here. It seems true from my experience. Of course, I’m a 46 year old part time alcoholic, but using lighter free weights seems to cut down on ligament strains I was getting with Nautilus.
Conan!, What is good in Football?!
Daa.... to run between the tackles,
To drive the linebackers before you,
And to hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders.
The thought process there is that the free weights force you to use all the smaller muscles that maintain stability and keep the motion in a plane (good form.) Where as machines allow you to isolate a muscle, but take all the load out of the stabilizer muscles. The next level up when it comes to stability is working with bosu balls, inflatable balls and sand bags, all things that are inherently unstable and off balance, much like sports.
Here's hoping it rounds out
It is always great to see the boys in blue swarming the opposing QB all game.
off topic
Jacobs trucks Urlacher at Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSi1EZix56o
You play to win the game!
Maybe this gets a few more guys like
MO Evans and Tommie Hill on the squad? If they have to IR Alford that is.
Do what Jerry Hairston do
Safety position
I pray that Kenny Phillips is ready to go when we play Washington because C.C. Brown is TERRIBLE, he can’t cover ANYONE. And to be honest Michael Johnson doesn’t look much better. Is there an ETA as to when Webster and Ross will be ready to go? Have they been practicing?
LETS GO GMEN
Webster is fine
He is ready. Ross, who knows. You are looking at Terrell Thomas pretty much having taken Ross’ job at this point. Ross says he will be ready for Week 1, but how can anyone be sure. He hasn’t been able to run all out yet.
by Ed Valentine on Aug 24, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
overreacting?
Ed, how much of this do you chalk up to truly worrisome injuries, as opposed to nicks and nags that they just want to be safe about? I mean, outside of Boley, Canty, and Alford, i’m hoping the rest are just precautionary measures. true we got guys barely practicing that are coming off of surgery, but we still have 3 and a half weeks for them to heal up. i’m taking the positive approach on this…for now.
the truth is we'll never know....
you hear that guys are banged up, they make it seem like it’s just nicks and nags but than in the off season guys magically start having surgeries and you realize that those nicks and nags were more severe than they first let on. As much as I would like to say Tuck is 100% he’s not, he’s already dealing w/ the bone spurs this early on. Last year it was the same, they played it off like it wasn’t serious but at the end of the year he admitted to flat out breaking down. I’m really hoping bernard and robbins can get up to speed quickly…we need them.
Maybe, maybe not
Robbins and Bernard look OK, but you just don’t know how much they can play. That’s the worrisome part of it.
by Ed Valentine on Aug 24, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Kiwi, Tuck, Cofield, Osi....
that is now our Dline w/ Bernard coming in off the bench.
wow…what a difference a summer makes. so much for depth.
I’m praying KP and AP aren’t too bad…
Tuck
You simply can’t put him at DT full time. He weighs 274, and he will get killed in there trying to hold up against the run on every play. So, you’ll see him there on passing down sometimes, but not full time.
by Ed Valentine on Aug 24, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
good point...
tuck can’t move inside full time, but he can move inside on a good amount of plays. I always thought the giants were planning on playing Kiwi, Tuck, and Osi on passing downs anyway (even before these injuries) so it’s conceivable that as long as Cofield, Bernard, and Robbins are healthy we could be alright. It’s just a matter of Bernard and Robbins staying healthy and getting back up to speed.
Yes
But what is supposed to make this group special is the depth, and the ability not to over-extend anyone. Right now that is seriously compromised.
by Ed Valentine on Aug 24, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe, maybe not....
during the ’07 and during the super bowl run Osi and Stray played damn near every down at end.
where we benefited from depth was when Tuck came into play DT…alford played very little as a rookie.
So right now we have 3 DE’s in Osi, Tuck and Kiwi and 3 solid DT’s in Cofield, Robbins, and Bernard (if they’re healthy). It’s also a very long season…when Canty comes back he’s going to add a spark to this Dline. Take pressure off of everyone else…
as much as it sucks to lose a young guy like alford for the entire year I think the most surprising news was how severe this hamstring injury was to Canty and how he’s not even close. It’s like we lost two guys in one weekend but Canty will be back…when is the question.
Our bright lights..
Dimmed quite a bit all of a sudden..Now we have problems on both sides of the ball.
Well
I think the offensive problems are really related to the third-team offensive line. I’m not worried about that, because those guys will get cut anyway. Defensively, the DT situation is a big concern. The Giants need this defense to be dominant.
by Ed Valentine on Aug 24, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
not so bad
I think we’re only down one guy, Alford, and despite my high opinion of him, his name was not among the most 6 mentioned around here in the last 6 months…
Bernard is slated to play against the Jets, are are Snee and Seubert. Phillips and Ross are back to practice Monday, Pierce is day-to-day.
Obv. Alford is gone, the other major question mark is Canty. That damn Cowboy better Cowboy up and get better! Boley I have no idea what his sitch is.
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Aug 24, 2009 11:30 AM EDT reply actions
Hopefully
With luck the Giants are getting bit by the injury bug at the right time. Let the injuries come now so guys can get healthy for Washington…
If the title of this post were a song..
would it be a 60’s British-invasion screeching rock tune in my head or a 90’s Lilith fair ballad?
Some of these injuries
are very concerning..I’m not sure it is possible these guys can come back in time for the start of the season..If Canty actually tore his hamstring..that is bad..and Alford is pretty much gone..Boley?..who knows he gets an extra week anyway..The starting OL is nicked up but I think they are standing ..on the sidelines as a mostly precautionary measure..but overall we’re in a mess here.
Dave Tollefson?
would DT be able to slide inside and play DT at all? Is he versatile enough or is he strictly an outside guy?
Tollefson
Is 255 pounds. He has played inside, but he can’t stop the run in there. He’s too small.
by Ed Valentine on Aug 24, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
If Alford not done for the year ...
Can we “PUP” him to free up a roster spot, and then wait to see who is hurt 6-8 weeks into the season ?
No
You can’t PUP anyone once the season starts. You have to be on PUP at the beginning of camp.
by Ed Valentine on Aug 24, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
How soon would Alford have to be expected back ...
to not IR him ?
Any chance they could still use him as a snapper (all braced up) sooner than he would be ready to DT ?
Doubt it..
They wouldn’t do that..It would destroy his future.
PUP?
A player has to be on it when camp starts.
by Ed Valentine on Aug 24, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
one silver lining to the Alford injury
DeOssie will be doing all the snapping during the season. I think eventually, Tuck is going to be told to fatten up and play tackle full time.. but that’s a bit down the road. Jeremy Clark has looked solid during preseason from what i’ve seen so hopefully he can get healthy.. Eventually people are going to get healthy and it looked like alford was going to get lost in the numbers game anyways.
President of the Ramses Barden Fan Club
Assuming he stays healthy..
Then what?..The problem with all these injuries is we won’t get the skinny on how truly serious they are..they always get deferred..The coaching staff knows how good or bad they are. I guess for good reason..No team is going to let the cat out of the bag..They don’t want to allow the opposition to zero in on their game plans.
Not sure I'd mess with Tuck ...
He’s signed long term, and Kiwi’s not (and Tuck’s better anyway). Don’t know if we can keep them all, and Tuck’s versatility to rush from the inside on 3rd down is a real game-planning asset. Nice problems to have, though.
Tuck to DT?
No, that makes 0 sense. He fattens up, he shortens his career.
If anything Tuck will do a Strahan and lost weight to prolong his career.
Do what Jerry Hairston do
by FreeBradshaw on Aug 24, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Keith Traylor?
he was a linebacker and then he became a Tackle
President of the Ramses Barden Fan Club
by Hoyadestroya85 on Aug 25, 2009 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Its not that he can't fatten up,
I’ve found first hand that fattening up is not hard, its actually kind of enjoyable….
But as far as Tuck’s career, it makes no sense for him to get fatter to prolong his career. The extra weight usually shortens it.
Tuck’s listed at 274, which isn’t hughe for an end (Strahan was usually at 290 most his career and looked bigger, then to prolong he lost all that weight after his big injury and was at 255 the rest of his career, and he played a few more years.
Do what Jerry Hairston do
by FreeBradshaw on Aug 25, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
he'll help out at DT in passing downs...
but he’s not a full time DT. but yes, he can help out there.
Off topic..
My wife is a diehard Dallas fan..I am a diehard Giant fan..We have two hats in front of the TV..Her Dallas hat and my Giants hat.. If the Giants or Dallas win a game a dollar goes in the hat…When they play each other 50.00 goes into the hat that wins..Then we go out to dinner and listen to the subsequent bragging..It’sfun..y’all should try it..
So really
it’s just a way to pool money to cut loose! Sounds good to me. BTW her being a Dallas fan I hope you … man I guess I’m too borderline for spousal abuse jokes at the site, never mind that one. My wife is a Patriots fan so you can imagine things were pretty harsh in Jan/Feb ‘08. But she’s a wonderful gal, bought me the Strahan road jersey for the next Xmas.
I have 2 ongoing football bets. One is with my guitar player’s husband, we have 12-packs on each NYG-DAL game, plus a 12-pack to the div. winner. The other is just a picks bet with my brother-in-law, a six-pack a week for most winners and a 1/4 barrel for the season.
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Aug 24, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess MG was tweeting about Nicks today...
i don’t have twitter, nor do i care to acquire twitter, but I heard Nicks is looking like the guy we thought he was. Catching everything today and a few one handed as well.
I’m telling everyone now…if we can protect eli this offense will produce.
By the time Canty gets back
Robbins and Bernard should be up to speed and we’ll make a second half push.
the giants usually start the first half of the season better than the second. I think people forget just how long of a season it actually is. Heck in ’07 we were counted out by week 2.
Indy was counted out last year after week 3…and what did they do? rattle off something like 10 – 11 wins in a row? Philly played like crap for a good stretch last year…they tied the bengals for hevans’ sake.
in fact the game from Saturday reminded me a lot of the Cleveland game from last year…
Yeah...
Even though the wife and I are Computer experts, it is hard to keep up with this “tweeter”, “facebook”, “myspace” jazz.. Pick up the damn phone or send an e-mail for cry’in out loud!!..lol
I agree with you on your points..If there is one thing I am proud to be a New York sports fan about it is we are all very up to speed with what is going on with our teams and are more able to analyze things concerning our teams than most others..
I think this week’s game could tell us more..Unfortunately, it is the Jets..I miss New York but not that yearly debacle..nothing worse than watching two guys that live in the same town fighting..stupid fools.
But given that nonsense and setting it aside, maybe we’ll see a different team this week and get a better sense of where we’re at where our team is concerned. Time is getting short.
weird
Facts won’t back me up but it feels like the Giants start every year 6-2
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Aug 25, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
andiamo708..
I am impressed with the majority of your insights..Very well thought out..just thought I’d tell you that.
I appreciate that
If Sheridan stays aggresive on D and brings those LB bltzing up the middle… it won’t matter if Leger Douzable is playing DT we’ll get the QB. I’d sooner get beat bad on a blitz than give a QB all day to throw.
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