Eli Manning, future Hall of Famer.

by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 31, 2009 10:31 AM EDT

Being a fan of the New York Giants isn't like being a fan of any other team. There's so much media around you can't help but be informed...about everything. You can't help but hear about every snap from every game, and than dwell on every mishap. Every mistake will be shoved down your throat, and you and your fellow fan will be forced to play Monday morning QB, devising the perfect game plan for yesterdays loss. The days following are spent picking apart the team and fixing the problems, on field and off, until an entirely new set of problems are handed down the following Sunday. Most of this usually falls on the shoulders of the QB.

The reason I'm saying this is because it often leads us to forget to appreciate what it is we have...this happened with Phil Simms...until he retired, which is when he finally became treated as a legend, and I'd love more than anything if the same didn't happen with Eli Manning.

Eli Manning is often called inconsistent, by New York fans, and all other NFL fans alike. So instead feeding this perception, I will try to refute this notion with nothing other than facts. Facts that show if Eli didn't change a thing of his on field performance, he WILL be a Hall of Famer. What is also true is that if we change nothing as Giants fans, we will never truly appreciate our future Hall of Fame quarterback until he no longer wears the unifrom, much like one Phil Simms.

I will begin with the obvious argument for HOFers which is statistics.

(Keep in mind my statistics will be based on the notion that the AVG life span of a Franchise QB is 16 years, and discounting his incomplete 2004 season)

Since becoming a full time starting QB Eli Manning has never thrown for under 3,200 yards, topping out at 3,762 for a single season. This gives him an average of 3395 yards per season.

Also since becoming a full time starter, Eli has never thrown less than 21 TD's, topping out at 24 for a single season. Giving him an average of 23 per.

Those are some pretty consistent stats for a guy who plays in undoubtedbly the toughest division in football.

(also considering the NYG are a run first AND second team.)

In 2005 Eli had a dismal 52.8 Completion%, since than he's never finished lower than 56.1%. Last year he brought it up to 60.3%. You have to believe with time, he's only getting better...but even if he doesn't he's still averaging 56.7% for a season.

QB Rating is my least favorite way to measure a QB considering if we went by this statistic alone Daunte Culpepper (88.0) is a significantly much better QB than John Elway (79.9).

Eli Manning got off to a rough start again in 2005 with this stat with a 75.9. But once again last year he finished with a solid 86.4 (interesting trend here with comp % and QB rating considering he was missing Plax for alomst half the season). Again I say you have to believe with time he's only getting better, but even if he doesn't he's got an average of 78.3.

Now lets see how these numbers look if we add 12 years of these averages to his current totals giving him a 16 year career (keep in mind Eli has been a solider on the field, never missing a snap since he took over as QB due to injury).

Passing yards: 55,363. Putting him ahead of John Elway, who is currently 3rd all time with 51,475 yards.

Passing TD's: 374 Tds. Putting him ahead of Fran Tarkenton, who is currently 3rd all time with 342 Passing TDs.

His 56.7 % Accuracy rating (which I think will only get better, but to be fair we'll keep it as is) is still better than Bob Griese (56.2%) Otto Graham (55.8%), Y.A. Tittle (55.2%), Johny Unitas (54.6%), and even Terry Bradshaw (51.9%)...who are all obvious Hall of Famers.

His 78.3 QB Rating is also comparable to Johnny U, Otto Graham (both 78.2), and Bob Griese (77.1).

But alas, a Hall of Famer is not defined by his statistics. He is defined how he carries himself on the field...Sure he's a Pro Bowler, but how does he perform on the big stage? How does he handle the pressure of a 2 minute drill with the game on the line?

Does he drop the ball on the one?

Does he lose his lunch in the huddle?

If all that's left to decide a QB's fate is how he performed when it counted...what say you Giants Nation?

Hall of Famer, or not?

FanPosts are written by community members. This is simply a way for community members to express opinions too long to be contained in a comment.

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Interesting Analysis

I think there are a few too many assumptions in there though. Your argument hinges primarily on projected career stats. First ,all those projected totals assume that Manning never suffers an injury that makes him miss any games or that reduces his effectiveness. Second, even if he doesn’t suffer any serious injuries, it’s questionable whether he’ll be able to put up numbers based on his peak years during the last 4 or 5 years of your projections. Thus, unless he’s extremely durable and extremely lucky, it’s questionable whether he will actually achieve those numbers. I bet you could do similar projections for guys like McNabb and Brees and Roethlisberger and make similar arguments for them to be in the hall of fame. Meanwhile, current guys like P. Manning, Brady and maybe even Warner have probably already done enough to get in (well Warner may be a stretch).

I look at Eli and see a guy who is somewhere between the 7th and 12th best quarterback in league right now. That makes it kind of hard for me to see him as a hall of famer unless his numbers go up a good bit over the next 4 or 5 years. He’s clearly our best QB since Simms, but until he puts some more numbers on the board, I think I’d hold off on the hall of fame expectations.

by Tucker Fredrickson on Jul 31, 2009 11:28 AM EDT reply actions

I don't know what to say to this

Playing another 12 years is not a given. Him putting up 50,000 yards would get him in, but that’s a ton of yards too.

I don’t know, its too early to tell. You gotta hold off on this cuz in football a guy’s career is always in the balance on a game to game basis. Look at Carson Palmer. He was well on his way to being right up there with Peyton, but one injury and he hasnt been the same since.

Also 0hen someone called Tito 8 & 0 comes on here and argues for a Gint, Im skeptical. Savor that 8&0, cuz like we’ve seen with Ortiz and him not being clean, Boston’s gloating isn’t ever set in stone.

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 31, 2009 11:30 AM EDT reply actions

8 and 0 actually stems from Terry "Tito" Franconas World Series Record as a manager...

It has nothing to do with the utter and absolute dominance the Red Sox have had over the Yankees this year. Although it is a fun coincidence.

"We'll show up tomorrow and do the same thing we try to do every day, Kick Pedroia's ass in cribbage and try and win a baseball game."

by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 31, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions

that "utter and absolute dominance"

has put them 2 1/2 back.

“eight an oh” doesn’t mean anything.

by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Jul 31, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions

side note

in all seriousness though, welcome Tito.

i think between Tito and Simms-McConkey we have officially reached our NY Giants/Red Sox fan total of two. Ed, please take note of this for future membership.

by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Jul 31, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Hahaha

Thank you, I’m sure once the season goes on my baseball affiliation will become nothing more than a distant memory.

"We'll show up tomorrow and do the same thing we try to do every day, Kick Pedroia's ass in cribbage and try and win a baseball game."

by tito (eight and oh) on Aug 3, 2009 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions

Yo Brad

As a Sox fan I gotta say, the only thing ever set in stone for a Sox fan is believing that our team is infallible and the highest exaltation of sporting. Personally, I believe someone injected a performance enhancing drug into Ortiz’s jelly doughnuts without his knowledge or consent.

You play to win the game!

by Simms-McConkey on Jul 31, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions

If he has those stats 12years from now then he probably gets in

You did leave out his interceptions which will be a factor. I do agree the Eli has HOF potential and I will say if he plays 9 more seasons and wins 2 or more SuperBowls then he will get in no matter what his stats are.

Also a change in the perception of Eli will happen when Peyton and MsNabb start declining in production. Brady, Peyton, MsNabb, Rivers and Palmer are QB’s I rate ahead of Eli for now but that won’t always be the case.

by Major on Jul 31, 2009 11:36 AM EDT reply actions

Bret Farve's a lock for hall of Fame...

And I’m quite sure he has more interceptions than most two QBs combined…which is why I left that out.

"We'll show up tomorrow and do the same thing we try to do every day, Kick Pedroia's ass in cribbage and try and win a baseball game."

by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 31, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions

I understand it's very early in his career...

But i did go off of his statistics to create those averages (he has been very consistent with those numbers over the last four years). He has never been hurt, his father was very durable, Peyton is very durable…More or less I’m just trying to get more Giant fans behind their QB…it’s a big season for him coming up, and I for one believe that our QB can lead us to the promise land once again with a little support from the home crowd.

"We'll show up tomorrow and do the same thing we try to do every day, Kick Pedroia's ass in cribbage and try and win a baseball game."

by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 31, 2009 11:56 AM EDT reply actions

True

its just something that you need to think about first. My first reaction is no.

But stats aren’t everything with QB’s, cuz if you play long enough, you’re gonna have guys like Steve Deberg, Drew Bledsoe and Dave Krieg in the Hall. ALl weren’t BAD, but they weren’t exactly elite guys either.

Eli will accumulate stats over his career, he’s been consistently above average in that aspect.

But the bottom line is he’ll never accumulate stats like Farve or Peyton. He wins, he’s been in the playoffs ever year he’s been the full-time starter, so that’s probably the sort of thing that will make him a lock.

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 31, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Exactly.

He’s a winner, and his stats aren’t as ugly as some may think…over time if he keeps this up they’ll look pretty good. But his legend is in his ability to play under pressure…to win under any circumstances.

With the game on the line…Eli every time.

"We'll show up tomorrow and do the same thing we try to do every day, Kick Pedroia's ass in cribbage and try and win a baseball game."

by tito (eight and oh) on Jul 31, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions

The only stat I'm keeping track of with Eli is

Super Bowl Rings. Keep ’em coming Eli.

by Lucky7 on Jul 31, 2009 12:53 PM EDT reply actions

Two City Bias

Hey a least three Sox/Giants fans are around.Tom fromSc

Tom Tallmadge Sr

by coosaw on Aug 1, 2009 7:42 AM EDT reply actions

Another ring

If Eli can get one more Super Bowl, I would say it looks pretty good. But then it puts him on the same page as Big Ben. Eli is pretty damn clutch in the 4th, but I do believe, like most everyone that the Giants and Steelers have a nasty defense and a ferocious running attack. These are what wins championships so still kinda hard to debate whether or not they are surefire HOF.

by wangstu13 on Aug 1, 2009 4:49 PM EDT reply actions

Isn't this

waaaay to early to be talking about?

by nygmp42 on Aug 2, 2009 4:53 PM EDT reply actions

Definitely

but I appreciate tito’s point. People were down on Eli before 2007 and ready to jettison him and throw out the draft bust label, even though the man has never had a losing season as a full starter. Some Cowboys fans even think that Giants fans would trade Eli for Romo. All true Giants fans need to step and support Easy E this year, as he is going to have to be the unquestioned leader of this offense. Tito means just appreciate the quality of the QB we have, even if he gasp has an uneven performance or three (as the only successful QB in history to ever have inconsistent games). Hopefully this year none of those performances will come during the playoffs.

Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!

by bigbluethruandthru on Aug 2, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions

Now this...

Is EXACTLY what I was getting at.

"We'll show up tomorrow and do the same thing we try to do every day, Kick Pedroia's ass in cribbage and try and win a baseball game."

by tito (eight and oh) on Aug 3, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions

Defense and run game

Stick to it and you’ll win games regardless. In all honesty I like Eli but I just don’t think he is a great QB. He is a smart guy and a good game manager but if your run game for whatever reason were to fail, your offense will be in trouble. Same thing with our pass game but I believe our run game will step up this year so we don’t have to rely on the pass so much.

by birdsflyinhigh2590 on Aug 3, 2009 4:30 AM EDT reply actions

ill admit he was good...

until plax shot hisself and ruined your season.. Plax made Eli good. Look at his stats without Plax last year (post week 11) and you’ll notice a significant drop in production. It doesnt look good for him this year because ya’ll have no dominant receiver, with both the physical and talent aspects that Plax brought to the table, but if Nicks develops into the receiver you guys think he will or Barden randomly blossoms (ideal situation) then Eli will be back to his regular self.

by RIP26_litodoin'work on Aug 3, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions

this is why teams other fans need to stay away from disecting Eli

yes, Post week 11, he wasn’t good (even tho he was very good in the ’Skins game.)

But in the whole bunch of other games in the season that Plax was either inactive, suspended or just simply didn’t play, Eli had his best games.

Mostly, aside from Week 1, Plaxico was a distraction. Not in the sense of when he caused his Cheddar Bob ruckus, but on the field basically the whole season. He was a decoy for the defense.

THAT IS WHAT the Giants are replacing. A frickin decoy. I think these other guys that might just be able to get open cuz they aren’t triple covered will make the offense more efficient, and in an already efficient offense, that could be scary.

by FreeBradshaw on Aug 3, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions

im pretty sure plax made eli...

over the last six weeks. eli threw 6 total td’s… with plax he was on pace for (15 TD’s through 10 games) 24 TD’s. how many did he end up with? 21. Because Plax was his security blanket. His size put every corner/safety at a disadvantage and coupled with his speed and hands, he was just a great wideout. Eli would just lob it up and he’d find a way to come down with it. The guy (Burress, not Eli) is a beast. Eli will not play well this season Period The End

Prediction:
QB RAT: 79.1 (/- 3)
YDS: 2900 (/- 350)
TD: 17 (/- 2)
INT: 15 (/- 2)

by RIP26_litodoin'work on Aug 3, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions

*(+/- #) is what the predictions should read.. plus or minus

by RIP26_litodoin'work on Aug 3, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions

AGAIN

a reason another teams fans should not dissect Eli.

If you actually watched 16 Giants games a season rather that 2-3 where the Sheagles play them, you’d realize that those lobs for Burress were a myth and when they were used they rarely work. The guy was simply rarely open last season.

The Eli I saw most of last season was the one during the SB run. When he was good, he spread the ball around. When he wasn’t, he was trying to force it to one guy (read: Burress)

So the Giants lose a decoy. A decoy who when thrown the ball usually dropped it or was blanketed by 5 players.

You can make predictions all you want for Eli. If he actually regresses and has those numbers (which he won’t), they still will make the playoffs without having to worry about the Raiders helping them.

by FreeBradshaw on Aug 3, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions

time will tell

my friend.. time, and time alone

if he’s bad this year, im calling plax his savior. if he’s good next year or in a few years, ill call it his relationship with whatever receiver blossoms out of the plethera of young ones you currently have. if he’s good this year, ill drop my argument. but the team around him has made him look damn good so far (good run game, GREAT o-line, etc)

by RIP26_litodoin'work on Aug 3, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Makes me wonder...

If it’s all the team and not Eli…what the hell was Kurt Warner doing the year before Easy-E got here??? He took Arizona to the Super Bowl but couldn’t take the Giants to a .500 record?

Interesting…

"We'll show up tomorrow and do the same thing we try to do every day, Kick Pedroia's ass in cribbage and try and win a baseball game."

by tito (eight and oh) on Aug 3, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions

how many years did good ole kurt play in NYC?

maybe he played poorly because he was thrown into the system without learning it well enough first.. or maybe that incredible o-line you all have now wasnt what it is today.. or maybe Plaxico Burress hadnt waltzed into town yet.. or maybe that blanketing d-line hadnt quite become anything more than Strahan..

are those enough reasons why he maybe couldnt do the aforementioned task?

by RIP26_litodoin'work on Aug 3, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Or maybe your just afraid...

That Eli might not need Plax to win ANOTHER Super Bowl.

"We'll show up tomorrow and do the same thing we try to do every day, Kick Pedroia's ass in cribbage and try and win a baseball game."

by tito (eight and oh) on Aug 4, 2009 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions

Really?

by JimmyK on Aug 3, 2009 11:50 AM EDT reply actions

Eli with and without Plax

First, people keep talking about Eli not being able to play without Plax. Plax had 42% of his catches and 47% of his yards in Wks 1 and 2. He was virtually non-existent after that, never catching more than 4 passes for more than 58 yards in any game after Wk 2. The G-men played very well for a long time even after Plax became ineffective.

Second, people love to point out Eli’s stats after Wk 12 as evidence that he sucks without Plax. Those weren’t the only games Plax missed. Plax was also suspended for Wk 5 against Seattle, and only played a few snaps Wk 12 against Arizona. Those were actually 2 of Eli’s best games all season. Add those two games to his stats Wk 13-Wk 17, and you see a different picture. Without Plax, Eli’s stats over 8 games are 8 TDs, 5 INTs, 199 yds/gm, avg. comp. pct. of 61%, and an avg. QB rating of 85. Worse than his totals with Plax in the lineup, but only marginally.

To summarize, Eli definitely played worse late in the year last year. But if you look at his performance across the board with and without Plax, Eli has shown that he can play well without Plax. Granted, those games where he played well were against very average defenses. So maybe he still has something to prove, I just think it’s a bit narrow-minded to simply conclude that Eli’s poor end to the season can automatically be attributed to missing Plax. I would argue that fatigue on the defensive end and a banged up Jacobs played a larger role in the team’s downfall than losing Plax or Eli’s play.

by hocke26 on Aug 3, 2009 4:17 PM EDT reply actions

Please see this...

http://www.bigblueview.com/2009/6/20/919685/lets-set-the-record-straight

by Willgfass on Aug 3, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions

thanks

missed that the first time around

by hocke26 on Aug 3, 2009 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions

thank you hocke..

Granted, those games where he played well were against very average defenses. So maybe he still has something to prove

finally, someone at least gives me SOME credit.. Eli is not HOF as it stands now. and he won’t be after his performance this upcoming year. all of his wideouts are young and still developing/learning the system. if or when they do learn the system eli might again put up respectable numbers but it just goes to show that he needs good wideouts to be good, whereas other QB’s (see Tom Brady, Donovan McNabb…) don’t.. although having good wideouts makes them PERENNIAL QB’s (see McNabb’s ‘03-’04 stats and Brady’s ‘07-’08 stats)…….

one might argue that Plax was a good wideout spanning the years from ‘05-’07.. even dominant.. just look at the stats (Sportscenter actually commented on these exact statistics earlier this morning in regards to his indictment). PLAX WAS A BEAST (had him on my fantasy team all 3 of these seasons):

2005-06 16 76 1214 75.9 16.0 78 4.2 49 7
2006-07 15 63 988 65.9 15.7 55 3.7 44 10
2007-08 16 70 1025 64.1 14.6 60 4.1 49 12

here are Steve Smith’s (Carolina Panthers’ Steve Smith) stats over the same time period:

2005-06 16 103 1563 97.7 15.2 80 7.9 70 12
2006-07 14 83 1166 83.3 14.0 72 5.7 51 8
2007-08 15 87 1002 66.8 11.5 74 5.5 44 7

BEAST (similar stats to Plax?).
the question is: would you consider Jake Delhomme a HOF QB? (answer: no).

Eli has never topped 24 TD’s in his career.
He may be great one day. Almost any starter has the chance to become an NFL great though.

by RIP26_litodoin'work on Aug 4, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions

"Tom Brady, Donovan McNabb"

just a minute while I finish laughing…

are we comparing chunky soup commercials to superbowl rings?

You play to win the game!

by Simms-McConkey on Aug 4, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions

How come there is nothing ever said that Eli made Plax to an extent????

The Big Decoy in his 2 seasons before becoming a Giant i.e. his last 2 seasons with the Steelers were merely OK.

There is no reason that Eli didn’t revive Plax’s career while Plax brought along Eli.

THey both had something to do with making each other better. It wasn’t all Plax and Eli sucked. No, you are as dumb as a stump if you believe that.

As for Jake Delhomme, not only has he not taken the Panthers to the playoffs every year he was the QB, but also he only has one season that was better than Eli.

Steve Smith is in a different class anyway than Plax ever was.

by FreeBradshaw on Aug 4, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions

because eli didnt do anything til plax got there

and even with plax.. someone he was hookin up with like 10+ times a season to the house.. he couldnt surpass 24 TD passes. any good QB can do that (see McNabb ‘03-’04 and Brady ‘07-’08). that’s what i have been saying the entire time.

as for delhomme.. THATS WHAT I"M ARGUING.. he’s not good, which is why i compared him to eli because they have done similar things. and steve smith MADE delhomme (who has ALSO been to a superbowl, mind you.. despite being a bad QB. one could even go so far as to argue that if it hadnt been for the Cheatriots, Jake Delhomme would have won a SB…. so Jake and Eli, not to mention DONOVAN → who is actually good →, would have had SB rings by this point. Jake Delhomme ~ Eli Manning, if not close to completely =. Eli has just had the benefit of a better team for longer (and less injuries).

by RIP26_litodoin'work on Aug 4, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions

Troll 1 and Troll 2

hey Hock & Brad,
Looks like ByeDawk has found a second fiddle for his trolling efforts.
I think “Brady & McNabb” says it all when it comes to the delusional vantage point. Nuff said, eh?
Never tried to post an image so here is a failed attempt:

You play to win the game!

by Simms-McConkey on Aug 4, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions

I agree

My dad says Eli never would have won the SB without Plax.

Would Plax ever have won a sb without Eli?

by Willgfass on Aug 5, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions

that depends on which teams

were pursuing him in free agency that one year. if he had stayed in Pitt then yes, he would have won 2 without Eli.

by RIP26_litodoin'work on Aug 6, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions

More speculation

you don’t know that him and Ben would have meshed like him and Eli did.

The fact Plax was an A-Hole in Pittsburgh with Ben there (and the fact Plax wasn’t the primary guy) made them a bad combo.

by FreeBradshaw on Aug 6, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions

TO

is proof you dont have to mesh with a guy to put up great stats and do well. see ‘03-’04 Eagles. plus, with Plax, all u gotta do is lob it up to him and he’d come down with it. Eli has shown us that very well over the years.

by RIP26_litodoin'work on Aug 6, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions

Plax doesn't do that all that much actually

so stop with that argument cuz its wrong that they do it all the time. It was rare for it to even work even when they tried it too.

Plax had 2 bad years before he left Pittsburgh. He was being phased out. Why? I don’t know but he didn’t have the greatest attitude while he was there. Plax and Eli meshed very well even without practicing with each other

And McNabb meshed with Owens for that one year, don’t give me that crap.

by FreeBradshaw on Aug 6, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions

i dunno about you

but i watch all the eagles games, or i used to back then when i had the opportunity, and on Nov. 7: Cameras follow Owens as he yells at McNabb on the sideline during a 27-3 loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers.. they were laughing around and sitting next to each other on the bench and shit before this incident. after it, well you get the picture. so they gelled for like 8 games or so and then they had to deal with each other up until like 7 games into the next season… thats an entire seasons worth of non gelling that was going on and yet look what they accomplished together:

NOT counting the Pit game…
Team Record (includes SB) 10-4
TO’s Receptions- 84
TO’s Yards- 1335
TO’s TD’s- 11

all in less than an entire season’s worth of play (14 vs. 16 games and you can argue he was playing injured during the SB, which he was)…. all proof that WR’s and QB’s dont have to “mesh” in order to play extremely well. and Big Ben is a better QB than Eli, so the stats they potentially woulda put up could have been ridiculous (im not saying this is factual, cause its not, so dont rip on me for saying it just cause its hypothetical).. and dont even try to rip on me for saying Big Ben is better than Eli. He is. period.

by RIP26_litodoin'work on Aug 6, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions

another sox fan for big blue

this is deep in the thread by now, but i thought i’d add to the tally. i’m another sox/giants fan. as passionate about one as i am the other. you’ll find more than a handful hailing from central connecticut where the two brands mix. there are many more than you might expect.

by TittleTown on Aug 3, 2009 5:37 PM EDT reply actions

TittleTown

Whereabouts? Man, 2007 was a great year…

You play to win the game!

by Simms-McConkey on Aug 4, 2009 6:32 AM EDT up reply actions

Some good points

but it should be pointed out that the HOF’ers with low completion percentages and low QB ratings played in a very different era, before the west coast offense and its shorter, higher-percentage passing philosophy permeated the league. It would be like comparing a power hitter today to a guy who played in the 80’s without mentioning that guys today hit a lot more homeruns.

by cjmulrain on Aug 4, 2009 12:09 AM EDT reply actions