New York Giants Notebook, 6.10.09
by cjmulrain on Jun 10, 2009 11:00 AM EDT
in New York Giants News
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A few topics to hopefully stir up some discussion out there in Giants land today.
- Filed under "how far we've come," the Sporting News has ranked Tom Coughlin the #2 coach in the NFL behind only Bill Belichick. To think some people wanted the Giants to fire him less than two years ago. Shame on you - I was behind him all the way. (No, seriously, I was. Don't bother digging through the archives or anything, just take my word. Please?) Anyway, Sporting News' reasoning:
"Preparation is the key for the detail-oriented Coughlin. His team is ready to play every Sunday."
- Bob Glauber of Newsday reminisces about "the Dungeon," the press room at Giants Stadium which is now shut down as the Giants have moved everything over to their new training facility.
- Andy Benoit of NFLTouchdown.com ranks the top 7 (really top 14) defensive ends in the NFL, with Justin Tuck and Osi Umenyiora coming in at 6th and 5th, respectively. I would have flipped them and even moved Tuck up to #4, because I think Dwight Freeney is slowing down, but I can't disagree too much with his assessment.
- This is a few days old, but I learned two things from it, so I'll link to it anyway. First, OTA's stand for Organized Team Activities. I never knew what that stood for - part of the problem is I assumed the 'T' was for "Training." Second, it sounds like all that posturing the last few years about Shockey and Plax not attending the OTAs was just that: posturing. Eli Manning on the importance of OTAs:
"You have the guys around the locker room, just hanging out, eating lunch together, those types of things, it makes the team closer," said quarterback Eli Manning, one of the ones who often excused the absentee players. "It makes everybody feel comfortable around each other. Everybody’s the same, no one’s getting special treatment, special attention. I think we have a great group of guys here. They come in and work. No one has an ego about anything. We’re here to practice hard and have some fun also."
- Also a few days old from NFLTouchdown.com, Thom Brodkin lists his top 5 "Guarentees" (sic) for why the Giants will win the Super Bowl, followed by his top 5 reasons they might miss the playoffs. Among his arguments for why they're destined to hold the Lombardi Trophy again are that the Giants have possibly the best defensive line depth in NFL History, Tom Coughlin is a great coach, and quality depth at just about every position. His reasons to be worried include unproven receivers, David Diehl playing out of position (I disagree, but he makes a decent argument), and playing in a very tough NFC East. Most controversially, perhaps, is that his top 2 reasons on both sides of the argument are Eli Manning and the running game. On the run game as a potential weakness:
Are you seeing a pattern here? Strengths can be weakness too? It would be foolhardy to dismiss the loss of Derrick Ward. He wasn’t just a change of pace, he was a starting quality running back. When Brandon Jacobs was hurt or ineffective the Giants had a go to guy on the bench. Remember it wasn’t just Jacobs wearing out the defense for Ahmad Bradshaw's long runs at the end of games. It was Derrick Ward running by linebackers on pass patterns and laying the lumber on the inside runs as well. Jacobs has never played a whole season, Bradshaw has never played a whole game and Ware and Brown have never really played at all. If one domino falls the wrong way the best running game in the league could falter and falter quickly. Without it the passing game becomes vulnerable and the defense spends too much time on the field and the Giants watch the playoffs from the comfort of their living rooms.
He has a valid point, but ultimately I'm not too concerned about the run game. I think Jacobs is an elite back if he can stay healthy, and I'm pretty excited for what Danny Ware can bring to the table. Add in Bradshaw and Brown, and I think it's a pretty solid mix of guys. As for Eli, well, my feelings about him pretty much change with the wind (pun intended), but we simply don't know how he'll do without Plaxico and/or in bad weather and those questions probably won't be answered fully until next January.
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The Giants willl compete for a Lombardi
Doubtful they miss the playoffs but he does make a good point about Ward though. Ward did all the stuff Jacobs can’t do (cut back, catch, etc). I actually shook my head every time they called a screen to Jacobs last year.
The biggest concern IMO ISN’T the WRs but the new DC.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
I'm not too concerned about Ward
I mean, I liked him a lot, but I sorta hold the Mike Shanahan view of RBs – if you have a good enough line, just about any running back should be able to have a good season behind it. Obviously there are superior talents like Adrian Peterson, BLT, and (yes) Westbrook, but for the most part I don’t think there’s gonna be a huge dropoff from Ward to Ware/Brown.
I'll agree with that
I never throught Priest Holmes was that great but behind that line in the early 2000s anyone could’ve ran behind it.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
Eli and the passing game are the main concerns
I think the Giant’s running game will be fine, even if Jacobs gets hurt. Ware and Bradshaw are solid guys and very hungry. Spags was an excellent DC, but it’s really the players that make the defense. Sheridan’s not switching to a completely new scheme and he’s got better players and more depth than the Giants had last year, so I don’t think that’s an issue either — just like I don’t think the potential absence of Jim Johnson is going to hurt the Eagles all that much. I think the ability of incumbent OC, Kevin Gilbride, to design an offense that works with the current crop of players will have more to do with the Giants’ season than the absence of Spagnuolo.
For the Giants the biggest concerns are Eli’s ability to play well, especially in the latter part of the season when the weather’s nasty, and the ability of the inexperienced receiving corps to make some plays. The other huge factor is the NFC East. The Eagles are a top team and the Cowboys have a lot of talent too, even if they seem to be in a retooling mode. Even the Redskins are dangerous, so that’s six very tough games right there, any one of which can go either way.
by Tucker Fredrickson on Jun 10, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
Couldn’t agree with everything you said more
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jun 11, 2009 7:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Probably right on the new DC
It probably a bigger deal than most would like to believe. Then again, this guy has been around the Giants for LONGER than Spags.
SO while Im sure he doesn’t have the ‘instincts’ of sending the blitz the way Spags did, Im sure that Sheridan will know what he’s doing.
The worst of it to me is the going up to the booth thing. I just loved the way Spags was always down on the field (and he learned that from JJ Im sure).
And the fact that Derrick Ward is the #1 reason the Giants don’t make the playoffs is just about the worst reason I’ve ever heard against he Giants. I mean at least maybe say Eli Manning can’t throw in the wind or something.
I loved D-Ward, one of my favorite players in Giants history. BUT, the guy was undrafted, a practice squad player. The Giants still have Bradshaw, Danny Ware (who is just like Ward, from the practice squad), and also Andre Brown, who like Jacobs was a 4th round pick. The Giants haven’t drafted a RB that high since Jacobs even tho they could have. So that means they really like Brown.
If they lost Brandon Jacobs, then ok. Jacobs is a unique weapon. The Giants really have 2 Ward clones on the team already.
People said the same thing about the Giants RB’s in 2007 when they lost Tiki. ANd Ward is no where near as good as Tiki.
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 10, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
That's my only concern with Sheridan
The transition with the in-house promotion should be smooth, its’ the unorthadox way of how he’s going to approach gameday. Unless a coach has an injury, i can see them in the booth, but i can’t think of one that would purposely go up there? With Spags, players could see his fire, his emotions and with Sheridan? A headset to motivate? lol
As for Ware, it seems like people are high on him, so i have to be optimistic about that. I really don’t know much about him truthfully. I’m actually curious on how they might use Brown? Assuming Ware is Ward, perhaps a Bradshaw/Brown show in the 4th quarter? A 4-headed rushing attack?!!!
From the booth in unorthodox?
It’s different than what Spags did, but I think if you look around the league there are several coordinators who don’t stay on the sideline.
by Ed Valentine on Jun 11, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions
If it works, then i won't complain
Perhaps it isn’t a good idea having both cordinator’s crossing each others path! lol
Heya Bradshaw
You sticking with 7 innings from Wang?
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jun 11, 2009 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions
RBs
I like his reasoning for the most part, but Giants RBs being the #1 concern? That just makes absolutely no sense considering his other #1, which makes his point moot. With a great running OL, you can have almost anyone back there and they are going to produce. I’d put it more like 1) Eli in the winds, 2) NFC East, 3) WRs, 4) new DC, and then I really don’t have any more. RBs will be fine. Diehl will be fine.
I think Joe_D makes a good point here in that we really don’t know what we are getting with Sheridan. Yes, the talent should be sick. Yes, keeping the scheme mostly the same should be the big key. But we simply don’t know enough about him as a DC, so it has to be on the list of concerns (although I disagree it should be ahead of the WRs).
I do remember
Tim Lewis and Spags having a VERY similar unit and one let up 30 pts a g ame and the other — half that.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
one big difference
is that Spags brought in a completely new system which utilized those players much better than Lewis ever did. Sheridan should hopefully be sticking with that system. We had so many talented D-linemen, a moderately talented LB corps, and a pretty weak secondary. Lewis went conventional with that, and got smoked. Spags decided to get as many of those good linemen on the field as often as possible and generate pressure to take the load off our weakest link, and it worked brilliantly.
Practice facility/wind
I wonder if the Giants are going to set up some powerful fans inside that new full sized practice facility to simulate the wind conditions in their stadium?
Regarding the OTAs, I’ve always hated the fact that both Shockey and Plax would be somewhere else while Eli and the rest of the offense was practicing in an another.
Let me go on record
As saying Sheridan will do a fine job.
Also, Thom Brodkin, if you’re looking for a copy editor, I have a few years of experience. There were typos in virtually every paragraph. It detracts from your credibility.
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Jun 10, 2009 12:46 PM EDT reply actions
after
leaving Giant’s stadium to cheers and hi-fives wearing my “Tom Must Go” shirt, it is now sitting in the back of my closet where it can’t even be used for the gym
HAHA
I was at the NO-NYG game. I got free tickets, and boy was Tom on the hot seat there.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
On the DE"s
I really find it funny still that people rate Osi over Tuck.
I may be biased too, but IMO Mario Willams still isn’t there yet to be the best.
Id rank it Jared Allen, Tuck, Trent Cole, Williams then Osi. Probably NFC beast bias, but I just can’t rate Osi as high as these guys.
As a pure speed pass rusher, tho he’s pretty good against the Run, Tuck and Cole are just monsters overall.
I like O
hard to argue
when you have 2 of the best DE’s in the game tho, and Kiwi is definitely in the Top 25 DE’s, probably higher if he really breaks out this season ( I know its a stretch….)
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 10, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Strahan was great
I miss when he used to get real pissed and pancake Jon Runyan. Loved that.
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 11, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Osi is over rated
There I said it. Had he not killed Winston Justice that one game he would’ve had a total of 6 sacks. I think he benefited from Strahan and an agressive defense too…There’s games where hes nonexistent too.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
absolutley
throw out those Justice sacks and he played more games and had less sacks then the year before
Tuck was an absolute monster last year.
But would any of you have predicted that going into the season? He was clearly a No. 3 in the Strahan/Osi chain, and you’ve gotta think part of his success was his ability to adapt to a sudden acceleration into the D-line chief. But I think we’re forgetting that when he last played, Osi was considered the heir apparent.
I’d be willing to take a friendly bet from any Giants fan here that not only is Osi the unspoken D-line chief this year, but that he also has a better year (statistically) than Tuck. Since all I’ve read is Tuck over Umenyiora comments, I’m sure there’ll be takers, so whoever has the most creative payoff, I’ll take their bet.
You play to win the game!
Sacks + Tackles this year
feel free to add any obvious stat I’m missing. We add them up, I say OU’s got the higher number. We base it on equal # of games barring any major injuries, say if Tuck misses 1, vs. Osi’s best 15.
Tuck wins, I’ll wear Yankees gear next day I’m in Boston. Osi wins, you wear Sox gear in NYC?
You play to win the game!
Osi
I think we all forget, that we have no track record of seeing how Osi will perform without Strahan. I am a Giant fan, but I think Osi is VERY overated. It has been documented that Strahan was mostly doubleteamed when Osi got his sacks. Plus Osi, is not even in the same ballpark against the run as guys like Strahan, Tuck, Jared Allen. I think Osi weighs about 248. I know Strahan played AROUND 250 his last year, but he was a freak against the run. Stray had incredible leverage.
RB’s we’ll be fine. People are underestimating the importance of WR threat to help the run. Plus, Eli without Plax has been very poor. Manningham and Nicks will have to really step it up big time. I don’t think Hixon,SSmith,Tyree or Barden have the potential to be elite WR’s. And no one ever better mention Sinorice (wasted roster spot) Moss..
no.....
Osi is NOT VERY OVERRATED!. Don’t get too carried away here.
That’s just wrong. The guy is legit. He’s an incredible speed rusher who’s also quite good against the run. Yes I think he’s overrated in that he is considered better than Tuck, which he’s not.
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 11, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
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