Day 1 Giants' mini-camp notes

by Ed Valentine on May 9, 2009 9:00 AM EDT in New York Giants News

Here are a few stories from the first day of New York Giants' rookie mini-camp.

Ralph Vacchiano says that Ramses Barden and Hakeem Nicks made a nice first impression on coach Tom Coughlin. Here is part of Vacchiano's report.

“They caught the ball,” Coughlin said. “This morning they caught the ball well.”

Consider that high praise from a coach who would rather not add to the hype of any of his rookies, particularly that of receivers Hakeem Nicks and Ramses Barden. The expectations of those two are already pretty huge, considering how thin the Giants are at their position. Both of them have a chance to contribute right away.

Can they? Well, if you’re crazy enough to judge anything from a few plays in the first practice of rookie mini-camp, Nicks certainly looks as polished as advertised. He had little trouble putting a move on CB Vince Anderson, an undrafted free agent out of Weber International, to get open near the sidelines. And he even showed some speed, flying by seventh-round CB Stoney Woodson (and several other defensive backs) on a deep route. ...

Nicks said he didn’t drop a single pass in practice, and I certainly didn’t see him drop any. I actually didn’t see Barden drop any either, but the 6-6 ex-Cal Poly star looked a little slow out of the blocks at first. By the time they got in 7 on 7 drills, though, he showed an unexpected second gear and at least once was able to get beyond the secondary to haul in a long pass from quarterback Rhett Bomar.

Vacchiano' has the full list of participating rookies, as does Mike Garafolo.
Garafolo has plenty of stuff for you. There is some video from one of the workouts. MG was impressed by Nicks in the morning session. He has notes on Clint Sintim, Barden, William Beatty, Andre Woodson and others in his afternoon practice report.
N.C. State coach told the Giants running back Andre Brown is "your type of guy."
Not mini-camp related but Ralph Vacchiano had a note on a statement by a very confident Brandon Jacobs.

“We are going to have a new identity, a new scheme,” Jacobs said. “Hopefully a piece of that puzzle doesn’t come missing in the middle of the season and we’ve got to make another adjustment. It’s just a fresh year. And I think that we’re going to have a great season and going on to win at least 13 games.

“I’m putting us in that big dance early and whoever’s listening to it, I really don’t care if they don’t like it or not.”

A few minutes later, Jacobs was asked if he thought the Giants still had a chance to land Edwards. “No,” he said. “I think that’s over.”

Then he made it clear that he’s glad it is.

“I love Braylon,” Jacobs said. “Braylon is a great guy and a great player. But I don’t think he’s New York. We don’t throw the ball enough for that.

“I don’t want him,” Jacobs added. “There’s great players in the league that I don’t want. I don’t know, I just think the chemistry between the teammates that I have now is great. We don’t need to add a new veteran to the whole group. I’m good with where we are. I’m glad that we didn’t go forward and get him or (Anquan) Boldin. And those guys are great guys (but) I’m not interested in that idea.”

I will try to post another photo gallery for you following today's practice sessions.

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Comments

Gotta say I disagree with Jacobs whole heartedly

I remember there being some hesitation when Plax signed here originally for fear of lack of a passing attack, when he precipitated a new passing attack; which I think Edwards or Boldin could continue

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 9, 2009 9:29 AM EDT reply actions

kinda agree

I am with you. Kinda. If it would have taken a 1st and 3rd to get braylon would we be better with nicks and barden over braylon? Probably. Also it’s not like braylon is near the end of his playing career. you would still be able to get years out of the guy. So while we may have been better off in the short term (1-2) years, how will it unfold in the future?

That being said it is way to early to pass judgment. What if Nicks or Barden or both turn out to be very good receivers if not superstars. I do like Jacobs towing the company line and putting his faith in the Giants organization and management.

by jiminjersey on May 9, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions

It would be more than 1-2 years

He’s only 26 and had one monster season, sure, but Eli and our line is better than anything he had in Cleveland, and the Browns arent exactly pass happy either, so I think it was an ideal fit, even if it cost a 1st rounder.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 9, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions

I agree with Jacobs. 100%

All this talk of Edwards or Boldin was all the media’s fault anyway. I would have rather the Giants said they don’t want them first of all so that people don’t get their hopes up that they are in the mix for them.

I am glad they didn’t go after them. The rookies can’t really be counted on, but that is NOT the point.

Hixon and Smith are at points to really step up. I’ll keep repeating it until they each prove me wrong, but WR in the years that these 2 are in usually break out. Rookies may not have a big impact, but 3rd year WR SURE AS HELL DO!!!

by FreeBradshaw on May 9, 2009 9:55 AM EDT reply actions

Youre forgetting one thing though

Smith will never be more than a possession receiver, he doesnt have the stature or physical tools to be a game breaker like Plax/Boldin/Edwards.

Hixon is our Rudy, I think he’s already peaked, he was a good story for a while, a nice scrappy player. To count on him as our main guy is foolish

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 9, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions

I think your forgetting that

While Plax and Edwards were high picks, Boldin was a 2nd rounder who while he is bigger weight wise than Smith is really nothing more than a possesion guy himself. He’s better than Smith right now, but Smith could be that good if the Giants threw his way 120+times like the Cardinals do Boldin.

ANd really NONE of these guys are game breakers. Randy Moss, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, even Brandon Marshall, Dwayne Bowe, Vincent Jackson..THESE ARE GAME BREAKERS…

I’ve said this before too. Jimmy Smith and Keenan McCardell were extremely similar to Smith and Hixon at this point in their careers. Look at what they did in Coughlin’s offense when they were in their 3rd years and beyond.

Hixon and Smith are FAR from peaking. Amani Toomer was very similar to Hixon at this point in HIS career too, and Toom was very good for the Gints.

by FreeBradshaw on May 9, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Come on

Look at Edwards 07 season and tell me that Hixon or Smith will ever come close to that. Were Boldin or Smith or whomever was drafted is irrelevant, I wasnt making that claim. Boldin has a few inches and at least 20 lbs on Smith, not to mention he’s chiseled out of stone. There is really no comparison b/t the two of them.

I dont know how anyone can make an argument that Hakeem Nicks and whatever other pick it wouldve required is more valuable than Edwards or Boldin. Having 2 second round picks couldve negated the loss of a third rounder, and Edwards being only 26 makes the move wise in both the short and long term

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 9, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions

At this point

I’m not buying the notion of needing a so called game breaker. Like FB has stated, there are only a handful of game breakers out there that presumably do, need extra attention to, but that’s only a few! Why risk the value of a few picks and the uncertainty of their production, not to mention their salary demands for only one reason of a game breaker?! Besides, i think Boldin is nothing more than a hyped up #1 that plays at a #2, only because of Fitzy’s presence! Not only that, he’s missed at least a full seasons worth of games to injuries in his career and his “me, i want a new contract” sends a red flag up too!

Edwards, well, let’s ship out picks, bring him in and pay him handsomely, and now wait anxiously for the drops when he goes deep! It’ll happen, all player’s are succeptible, but if there’s a history, it’s worth repeating. Going deep at Giants Stadium isn’t like a full season in a cozy dome!

All in all, it’s worth noting that Hixon (was actually more productive than Plax) and he has not been given the extended experience yet to prove himself, has not peaked! Like Smith, they’re going into the golden age of the third year. Believe it or not, why he really hasn’t been mentioned, is Manningham? I could be right, wrong or grasping, but he was very productive at Michighan. With a 16.9 avg. and 27 TD’s in 3 years, could he be the wildcard/darkhorse in this equation? I know he’s coming into his second season with minimal experience, but, you never know?

Overall, coupled with Nicks and Barden, there is no reason why the Giants shouldn’t be able to move the ball through the air. For what each has to offer, the combinations are numerous to achieve success!

by Hootman on May 9, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Nicks isnt more valuable than Edwards

I agree with you on Boldin, thats why I preferred Edwards. The loss of a 1st and 3rd wouldve been negated by the fact that, Edwards is only 26 years old, so he has plenty ahead of him, and 2 second round picks wouldve made up for the loss of the third rounder.

Edwards numbers were put up in a climate just as inhospitable as the Meadowlands and on a far worse team.

My point was, he couldve easily assumed Plax’s role, Plax stats and made for an easier transition, but as it stands now we have, essentially, three no 2 receivers; one of whom is a rookie and one his punching above his weight (hixon)

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 9, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions

Edwards is NOT worth more than the young guys

The guy is NOT an elite WR. He has proven as such that he may not ever be.

I’ll compare Braylon Edwards to 2 WR I would rather have an unproven rookie over. Javon Walker and Roy Williams ARE EXACTLY THE SAME PLAYER AS BRAYLON EDWARDS!!

I aint saying these are bad players. I aint saying they are unproven. I am saying these are not the type of WR (aka, elite for ONE FRICKIN YEAR, average every other) the Giants need.

They would have to pay him a contract, and if he’s average for one year then they DO NOT Re-sign him. Is that wise? Trade a 1 and 3 (aka Nicks and Barden) for a guy who if he doesn’t pan out in one year is gone. While if Nicks and Barden don’t put up numbers for a year they can still get better??

Edwards is NOT a #1, is not a guy to replace Plax, and I am happy as hell they didn’t trade for him.

Id rather see what the Giant have with Smith, Hixon, Manningham, Nicks, Barden, Boss, and Beckum.

Eli is best when he spreads the ball around. No #1/decoy WR is going to force him and Gilbride to do that.

by FreeBradshaw on May 9, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Well you must have a lot of faith in Eli

I dont see how this team is going to win with such a mediocre receiving core; Smith is the only one of your group there who has remotely proved himself at this level.

I love how everyone assumes Edwards cant come close to his 07 season, but automatically assumes Nicks is the answer to all our problems.

Cleveland was in flux in nearly every sense of the word last year, I would have no doubts he could succeed in NY, better team, better market should be enough motivation for him to play hard for a bigger deal

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 10, 2009 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions

we seemingly had a real shot at Edwards, a proven, albeit inconsistent, WR.

Bren, these are your words. Recheck your post under Giants, Eagles Beasts of the East. I’ve already posted that I was once on the Edwards bandwagon but then reevaluated things. My question is why would we want another proven, inconsistent WR. We already have that in Hixon. He has proven that he can play in the league and he has proven that he too is inconsistent, and come contract time, he will be much cheaper to keep. Funny how things work, I think this would be a non issue if Hixon had caught that bomb against the Eagles. The guy has speed to match Edwards and if covered 1 on 1, he’s going to get behind some of those corners. He just has to catch the ball. With Edward’s inconsistency, he could have easily dropped that pass also, he did lead the league in drops. I don’t think that “NY” on the side of his helmet will cure his hands. If that is the case, then a rookie pushing Hixon is going to do wonders for him.

Speaking for myself, I don’t see Nicks as the answer to all our problems, mainly because I don’t see a problem anymore. I do see Nicks as an important piece to the receiving corps puzzle. I’m not fixated on the fact that we need a DCWR. While the rookie will get single coverage to start, he will demand more attention once he catches a pass, brushes off a corner and runs down the sideline for 50 yards or so. Also, with his size, if Barden masters one play (corner fade) what team is going to cover him 1 on 1 with a 6 foot corner?

I think we have receiving corps void of houshold names and that may scare some. I also think that if Edwards were all that, he would not be up for trade. The Browns were onto something nice until last season’s debacle so why trade a proven, inconsistant, almost elite for one season WR that happens to be the best player on the team. We’re going to be just fine with Hixon, Nicks on the outsides and Smith in the slot.

by njgiant on May 10, 2009 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions

Well said

I just think Edwards is closer to his 07 form than last year, especially if he was on this team. But I couldnt come out and say, ‘hes done it every year’ b/c he hasnt, but he has shown he can put up monster numbers.

Whereas Hixon hasnt, I dont get it, To me, this guy is the walk on who gets garbage minutes in a basketball game, yet makes like 4 consecutive threes and everyone falls in love with him. I just think he, and our offense, will be completely exposed if he’s an everyday week player for an entire year. Sure hes a great story, but not a great receiver.

Im not proclaiming that Edwards is Jerry Rice, but he wouldve been as close to a seamless transition from Burress as possible, plus he’s pretty good. So again, my gripe isnt with Hicks, per se, its that some people seem to value a late first round pick more than Braylon Edwards, who has shown he can play in the NFL and is only 26

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 10, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions

I do wish Edwards well

Yes, he is a good receiver but I don’t think we’ll miss the playoffs or even the Superbowl without him. I think Edwards was so high on a lot of Giant’s fans wish list (including mine) because he had his best game (and he absolutly destroyed us) against us on that Monday night affair.

I think Hixon will step up his game because he must know that he has a starting spot to lose. Also, the competition between he and Nicks will only help the Giants and Eli. Plus with all the Edwards, Boldin trade talk, you think this guy (Hixon) doesn’t have a chip on his shoulder and has something to prove. Adversity can make or break a player (or team).

I’m looking at the positives. Yeah, we lost the 1st two games without Plax, beat Carolina (good defense), lost on a fluke to the Vikings (another good D) and that game against Philly was just plan poor game planning. Besides, I think that Edwards would be more important to Quinn or Anderson than he is to Eli.

by njgiant on May 10, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions

I DO NOT think

Nicks is the answer to all the Giants """"""Problems""""". Not at all. Steve Smith and Dominick Hixon, I do…

I don’t predict 1000+yards for each of them, but I do think that having all these young hungry WR and Beckum of course is going to make Eli’s job the easiest its ever been .

I hated it when he locked in on one player like Plax, or Toom, or Shockey when he was here.

I don’t think the Giants have any problems first of all. Kevin Gilbride’s gameplanning and play calling is the Giants only flaw to me, and given that the Giants were one of the top O’s last year I’d say I am nitpicking a bit.

by FreeBradshaw on May 10, 2009 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions

I also think Braylon Edwards was a bad fit

He was not an answer to the the Giants problems.

Whether its the drops, the fact he’s really not proven much, or that he is ON THE TRADING BLOCK IN THE FIRST PLACE.

If the Browns have him on the block, why would the Giants want him? Its not like the Browns have 2 better WR than him. Its not like the Browns didn’t trade Kellen Winslow and Stallworth got arrested, so why are they trading this guy?

There must be a reason, and whatever it is I don’t want him on the Giants for that. Plaxico was a good teammate, but maybe Braylon is Not???

by FreeBradshaw on May 10, 2009 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions

So b/c hes on the trading block we shouldnt trade for him?

That makes no sense whatsoever; Im sure Pats fans are kicking themselves for not trading for Moss

Plaxico was a good teammate? The guy who showed up late, missed practices and shot himself in the midst of a title run ruining the team??

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 10, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions

According to his TEAMMATES

Plax was most definitely a good teammate.

And the Pats got Randy Moss for a 4th rounder. That’s it. If the Giants could get Edwards for a 4th rounder, I think they’d do that too.

And Edwards is NOT Randy Moss. He is NOT Plaxico Burress. He IS JAVON WALKER.

Everyone knew why Randy Moss was on the trading block. He was considered washed up and a knucklehead in Oakland. Yea he turned it around, but it was unexpected.

Now why are the Browns trading Edwards? According to you a 26 year old not yet in his prime vet WR who has the potential to be a game breaker? Why the hell would any team trade that guy?

I don’t get why you want him. He had one good year. Other than that he’s another injury prone high pick WR who was considered a bust until that 07 season and will be again if he matches that.

How is he gonna make a seemless transition? Cuz he’s a veteran? Cuz moving from a bad team to a good one will help? He was as big a reason for that team being bad as anyone else.

If we were talking about Andre Johnson, or Dwayne Bowe, or Calvin Johnson, one of these guys, then Ok. Lets break the bank and go head and get them

But what is Edwards? Javon Walker? Roy Williams? You really want that?

Let him stay in Cleveland or better yet, maybe go to the Jets and bring them down.

The Giants are doing this the right way. Nicks has way better hands RIGHT NOW. That’s enough for me.

by FreeBradshaw on May 10, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions

Hes hardly injury prone

he’s played 16 games each of the past two years, my point has been all along he’s more valuable than the 29th pick, and had it cost an additional pick, we had some to spare. Thats all, Im not claiming he’s Randy Moss, but he has put up one monster season in 07, so its not ancient history, and hes only 26

So put him with Eli and our Offensive line, and with his age, there is reason to believe he could put up similar numbers to his 07 campaign.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 10, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions

The transition part

Was that, out of all the guys we’ve been connected to this offseason, Edwards is the most similar in stature to Burress, plus he’s more athletic…so it would seem to be an easy move, b/c he could be used in a similar fashion as Plax

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 10, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions

And my point

is I don’t think he’s worth the potential of Nicks.

Add in the FACT that the Browns wanted not only the #29 and that other pick, PLUS Kiwinuka. No way

He has PLAYED in 16 games, but more than half he was taken out cuz of injuries. He doesn’t play through a lot of the stuff and while he starts many games, he’s in the locker room for most.

The Browns O-Line was NOT the problem BTW. They actually are pretty damn good. They didn’t run well cuz Jamal Lewis is slower than Madison Hedgecock.

I just can’t see him being such a smooth transition. Yes he’s as big and more athletic than Plaxico, but he has worse hands than Plaxico, and Plax wasn’t exactly the surest of hands either.

Nicks, while I don’t expect to be an all-star right now, I think has much more potential than Edwards, that’s why he’s worth more as the 29th pick.

Nicks is just as fast and athletic, and while he’s 2-3 inches shorter, he has long arms, can jump, and has 10x the hands Edwards ever will.

by FreeBradshaw on May 10, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions

bren, FB

You guys are relentless. It’s great fun reading you thrust and parry with each other. Very thoughtful and civilized. No name calling, No false logic. No putting words into the other guys mouth, etc.
Bravo.

by blue gonz on May 10, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions

thrust and parry !!!

Very Cool – BG

This is the fun of BBV, watchin a 15 rounder
with two heavyweights who won’t go down!!!

entertaining fight guys!!! Thanks

by NY17NE14 on May 10, 2009 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions

LOL

why would I make fun of him?

He states his op, I do mine.

He is concerned the Gints didn’t get a vet WR and doesn’t think the guys here and the rooks are capable of replacing Plax and Toom.

I have a bit of that concern too, but I don’t think Braylon Edwards was capable of that and I think Anquan Boldin not only would cost too much in the line of picks, players (Kiwi), and cash, and he isn’t really much better than Steve Smith.

by FreeBradshaw on May 11, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions

As if the heated debates aren't enough by themselves

I enjoy the fact that prior to all of this discussion of how NYG should or shouldn’t play their hand at wide receiver, I didn’t give a rat’s ass what kind of season Edwards was going to have over in Cleveland.

Now I’ll be sure to take note of how he performs and see if we made the right or wrong choice. It will only enhance my enjoyment of the NFL season over all. The same thing goes for many of the other topics we’ve covered here at BBV.

by NY17NE14 on May 11, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Not only Edwards

but Boldin, Maclin, DHB, Crabs and of cours our three.

by njgiant on May 11, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Ahh, hindsight is always 20/20 lol

In all fairness to what has not transpired (any trades), the could’ve, would’ve and should’ves will arise with questions via production amongst all involved. For whatever production BE or AB have had with their teams in the past, does not automatically translate to any success for the present (the Giants)!

Some may argue that with the rookies too, but at a more economically cheaper price. IMO, it’s really not a fair comparison for rookie potential vs. veteranship!

But, all in all, i have enjoyed these subtle little side debates. It keeps the angles and perpectives new!!!

by Hootman on May 11, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions

True,

and it makes these days without football go by just a little quicker.

by njgiant on May 11, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions

FB, TF

by blue gonz on May 9, 2009 1:39 PM EDT reply actions

Have to agree with BJac

Last year when Plax went down, we did not change our offensive game plan and attack.

With out new WR’s and returning WR’s, our coaching staff has had an entire off-season, mini-camp and into training camp to re-adjust our offense where it needs…utilizing all the weapons we have now.

Our D is beyond strong this year, and our offensive is more than capable of scoring 18-24 points per game…let our D do its job and we will win a bunch of games this year.

In Reese We Trust!!

by DLineMonsts on May 9, 2009 3:35 PM EDT reply actions

Going with Jacobs on this one

I can almost forgive the staff for not adjusting to the loss of Plax during the last 4 weeks of the season, but if they can’t make adjustments with the players and time they have, then they should be put to pasture. This team is set talenent wise and chemistry wise and will do great. Eli seems to do just fine without the premadonnas (tiki, shockey for example) pulling on his jersey. I think he will be a stronger leader and mentor to the younger guys also.

by njgiant on May 9, 2009 4:46 PM EDT reply actions