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Rankings: Eli in the top 10

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I generally hate off-season rankings -- player rankings, team power rankings, whatever. That said, in the dead of the off-season long before training camp begins they at least give us something to talk about.

With all of that soapbox preamble aside, it brings me to my point. The Sporting News (yes, The Sporting News still exists!) has come out with its position-by-position NFL player rankings, courtesy of something called 'Real Scouts.'

In its quarterback rankings, TSN puts Eli Manning ninth, then ducks for cover figuring that placement will anger Giants' faithful.

Plaxico Burress and Amani Toomer are gone, and we're not sure he will have a go-to receiver in '09. If they are relying on rookie Hakeem Nicks, Manning is in trouble. Elite quarterbacks can carry teams on their back, but Manning failed last year when Burress and Brandon Jacobs got hurt. The Super Bowl 42 win was great, but this is a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately league.

Actually, I am perfectly fine with this ranking. It puts Eli just behind Donovan McNabb and Kurt Warner, and just ahead of Tony Romo. You can quibble over who goes where in that group, but at least Eli is finally getting recognition as a top 10 guy.

According to TSN, here is how the Giants stack up at some of the other positions.

Again, none of this really proves anything. I am sure, though, that you guys have some thoughts on these.

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I can see why you would hate offseason rankings

These rankings are based on perception and not production and that kinda irks me a little. Does anyone remember Georgia being ranked #1 preseaon last year. That worked out well for the Bulldogs. Anyway, there were a few things that stuck out to me. I haven’t looked at all positions yet, so I guess there will be more but it shocked me to see Steve Smith (Panthers) ranked 10th…you’ve got to be kidding me. Edwards, TO, Lee Evans rank higher than Smith, I don’t think so (but this is just my opinion).

I can deal with Eli being ranked 9th but I find it funny that Eli is perceived as inaccurate (by most) but this poll says that McNabb has a strong, accurate arm. If you check the stats, they posted the same passer rating and completed the same percentage. Here’s that perception thing again, at 60% completion and 86.whatever passer rating, one guy is accurate and the other guy is inaccurate. Go figure.

Ok, one more, before I go to work. Someone is looking like a genius in Texas. I remember when they drafted Mario Williams over Reggie Bush and the general fell was “WTF?”. Boy, did this pan out well for the Texans. Someone was looking at the big picture and down the road. Williams is ranked 3rd (DE) on this poll and Bush doesn’t even appear in the poll. Beanie Wells (a rookie that hasn’t played an NFL down) is ranked over Bush. Oh well, Reggie still has Kim Kardashian

by njgiant on May 28, 2009 7:56 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I have no argument with your comments re the ratings Ed.

I’m surprised Hedgecock is rated as high as he is, even though I’d push him up a skoche.
I’m surprised at AP’s ranking. Based on last yead, I’d push him down a skoche.

by blue gonz on May 28, 2009 8:03 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good spot for Eli

he has a good season this year and he’ll be higher that’s for sure.

Im surprised Jacobs is rated the 3rd best RB in the league tho. I agree with that of course, I just can’t believe a media outlet would do such a thing…..

And I agree with Ed, there is not a chance that A)there are 7 DE’s better than TUck, and B)Osi is not better than Tuck.

As a Giants fan of course I think Tuck is the best DE in the league, but its really not all that far fetched. Jared Allen is great, but you can’t deny that playing with the Williams Wall has helped. He was very good in KC too tho, but I think he may have racked up a bunch of sacks agains the Raiders no?

And while I like the Canty ranking at 5th, I just don’t see how yet. I think he has the chance to be there tho, and I guess these rankings are ‘prospective’ so I guess its fine.

by FreeBradshaw on May 28, 2009 8:08 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It's a hard read

To justify where they’re coming from. I could easily be a homer and like where Jacobs sit’s, but IMO, he’s a straight-line power runner with minimal to no contributions in the receiving game. Unlike some other backs that are ranked considerably lower with similar rushing stats, but more receiving stats?! Where are they coming from?

Another example, Chris Wells is #20, but the criteria they use for the RB rankings are of the focal point of the offense. Yeah, Beanie the rookie is the focal point of the O now? So how does Addai fit in with the Colts O, (he didn’t make the list)?

Another criteria they used for the DE’s, besides their ability to rush the passer and stop the run, TO DROP BACK INTO COVERAGE! Since when is it their responsibility to frequently drop back into coverage? That’s what they have LB’s and DB’s for! lol

by Hootman on May 28, 2009 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

njgiant, great point about McNabb-Eli

How does Freddy Robbins not make the list?

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by Jim Schmiedeberg on May 28, 2009 8:14 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good ole TSN

If i’m not mistakened, TSN is more of a fantasy gamers site, rather than a traditional informative site. With saying that, these rankings are somewhat misleading. They’re mixing in intangibles with actual production. I’ve been a member over there for over two years, and everytime a ranking comes out, the whole site is in an uproar, by evidence of all of the negative comments. So i generally take these and any other rankings with a grain of salt.

Thank god i found this site, seriously. If you want hostility and instability, TSN’s forums are the place! lol

by Hootman on May 28, 2009 8:18 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Here's another reason to shake your head at these rankings

Going over most of the positions, you got a Giant or sometimes 2 in the Top 20, mostly top 10, at every postion (and having Orlando Pace at #9, and 6 others ahead of Diehl at tackle is a frickin debacle)

And the sporting News doesn’t even pick the Giants to make the PLAYOFFS!!??

A team with all these great players rated by them (and “real scouts”), and a team that emphasizes ‘team’ first, and they don’t even pick them to make the playoffs….

by FreeBradshaw on May 28, 2009 8:18 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Playoffs

You have to realize that playoff pick is really made by Florio from Pro Football Talk in his weekly TSN column. Florio will say just about anything to stir things up.

by Ed Valentine on May 28, 2009 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sporting News

I find it sad that The Sporting News has become the after thought that it is now in the sports media world. I usually go just about everywhere else before i go to TSN. They have ‘The Sporting Blog,’ which is pretty good, but that’s about it. As for rankings, they are meaningless. But, as you can see already, at least they give us something to talk about.

by Ed Valentine on May 28, 2009 8:35 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Meaningless rankings

it’s kinkda like someone saying “let’s throw these guys a bone so that they’ll have something to chomp on until the real deal starts”.

by njgiant on May 28, 2009 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the problem with TSN

Is the fact that it’s just a melting-pot of all proportions. Your using one forum for all the teams for each given sport. That’s a recipe for alot of conflict, and it happens! Unlike SB Nation, it’s perfect. Visit all of your favorite teams blogs and shoot the breeze.

But, don’t get me wrong. There are some good blogs from members over there, but they seem to be too few of them!

by Hootman on May 28, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Winning Changes All

I have no problems with Peyton, Brady, Big Ben being ahead of Eli. I do have issues with Brees, Mcnabb, Rivers and especially Carson Palmer ahead of him. Are we serious here? What have those guys done, Brees is a stat machine but doesn’t win, McNabb is a choke artist to the fullest, Rivers is young and promising but I take Eli 10 times outta 10 over Rivers and Carson Palmer, wow this guy must love the Bengals or something, i mean new oline whod they get that kid int he draft whose stock plummeted, and new receiving core if they mean by losing Housh. This is a disgrace Eli should be ahead of those 4 for the mere fact he wins games, and what hes done. Not his fault our top WR was an idiot and he had to pickup mid season without a deep threat, no QB could have won with the young WRs we were left with last year. This is a joke for sure.

by jsballer3314 on May 28, 2009 9:47 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

easy now.....

I love Eli as the Giants QB and I’ll generally defend him to the death, but Carson Palmer and Drew Brees are a level above Eli, there really is no doubt about that.

Carson Palmer when healthy is right up there with Peyton and Brady, I can’t think of any reason he wouldn’t be, playing for the Bengals or not. Yes winning means a lot, but were talking about talent at the position.

Brees has the stats and plays in a dome, but also there’s a reason he has all those stats. Its really not his fault, or Carson Palmer’s either, that their team’s management is inept and can’t build a defense

You’re right on Rivers tho. He has the stats, but not the winning. SN I guess forgot the Giants were 12-4 last season.

I would have ranked it Peyton, Brady, Roethlisburger Palmer, Brees, Eli Manning. Palmer and Brees are better simply cuz regardless of wins, these guys are legit QB’s.

If you would go by winning alone however, then you probably would go Brady, Roethlisburger, then the Mannings, Peyton of course ahead.

Winning of course is EVERYTHING, but in the case of Brees and Palmer its really not entirely their fault that their team’s don’t have defenses. Also Palmer being hurt also kills things a bit. But Carson Palmer before his various injuries was right up there with Brady and Peyton

by FreeBradshaw on May 28, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

....shight

I meant that Palmer and Brees are legit AS ELITE QB’s too….

by FreeBradshaw on May 28, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

no way i put Palmer ahead of Eli

it’s time to actually see some results with this guy. i’m tired of hearing about how good he can “potentially” be, it’s time to put up or shut up.

if we see the Carson Palmer circa 2005 or 2006 come out, then yes, i’ll put him ahead of Eli. but until that happens, i’m not going to put a guy that has had one winning season, and zero playoff victories over Eli.

other than that, i have no issues with where Eli is on the list.

by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on May 28, 2009 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

McNabb has beaten Eli in the playoffs 2 of the past 3 seasons

And he’s got a better regular season winning percentage. True, he doesn’t have a ring, but neither did Jim Kelly and he was still a much better QB than Mark Rypien. Eli’s a very good QB, but McNabb has had a great career and I don’t have a big problem with him being above Eli. McNabb’s asked to do a lot more in that offense than Eli is for the Giants, too.

by cjmulrain on May 31, 2009 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where's Corey Webster?

To give you an idea of how subjective these rankings are the same group ranked cornerbacks and Corey Webster didn’t even make the list. So you really do have to take all these with a very large grain of salt. An awful lot of names on those lists leave you scratching your head, including AP at 10.

I do agree with Ed that Tuck is better than Osi. We’ll find out what the offensive coordinators around the league think when we see who gets double teamed more this year. Can’t wait.

by Tucker Fredrickson on May 28, 2009 10:51 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Oops

AP at 11. Still too high.

by Tucker Fredrickson on May 28, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I saw Leigh Bodden on that list.....

I think that’s enough to make it crap

by FreeBradshaw on May 28, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah im with you on eli ranking

cant get too worked up about it. not like certain people might get worked up about romo being ranked behind eli anyway.

All of the mets fans hope that we will not see the bad news mets ever again.

by kendynamo on May 28, 2009 10:52 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Worked up

Can’t get too worked up about any of this really, or shouldn’t. It’s all opinion — and just one opinion — and just gives us something to talk about. I am glad to see individual Giants getting more respect than they have in other years, though

by Ed Valentine on May 28, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think

these are based on production, not necessarily talent. So Eli taking a hit for having a young core makes just as much sense as Jared Allen being upgraded because of the Williams

by queler on May 28, 2009 11:52 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

let me clarify

predicted production

by queler on May 28, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My biggest quibble is with calling McNabb "accruate" ...

To me, accuracy has to do with where you place the ball (remember the receiver is not standing still !), and McNabb has this habit of throwing low and behind crossing receivers (mostly what you see in a West Coast O). Completion % doesn’t really capture accuracy, if the receiver has to come to a dead stop to catch it, so no chance at RAC yards. Ironically, I fear McNabb’s vertical passing accuracy the most, and have read a lot of reviews of him that say he is just a West Coast “system” QB. Go figure.

Granted, very few QB’s can place it on the money consistently, Montana and Warner are two of the best of all time at this. Unfortunately, it is also the area where Eli is a bit too … um … “inconsistent” ?

by Shofner85 on May 28, 2009 12:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Got to hit them in stride

Your dead right about McNabb. (I’m in Philly so I’ve seen most of his games in his career). He throws a great long ball, but fires lasers into the dirt on a lot of shorter passes. It’s pretty interesting that he’s had as much success in a WCO as he has, since it doesn’t really suit his strengths.

That’s my biggest gripe about Eli. He seldom hits receivers on those slants and crossing routes right in stride. They have to slow down or backtrack to catch the ball (or sometimes dive to the ground) and seldom get the opportunity for YAC. That was Plax’s great strength. He was really good at catching balls while reaching back across his body and shielding off the defenders. I’m hoping Nicks or Barden has that knack.

by Tucker Fredrickson on May 28, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

imagine McNabb in the run n' shoot?

He reminds me a bit of Warren Moon, but I think he’s more elusive – he could have put up some ridiculous numbers if he’d played in a system like that.

by cjmulrain on May 31, 2009 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

completely agree about mcnabb. To me franchise is a bad label for that column. Ironically, I think he got the tiers just about right, I’m just sure the descriptions of the tiers are correct. I would call that top tier, guys that can carry a team.

by queler on May 28, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

These lists

are garbage.. for defensive ends, how is olshansky higher than luis castillo.. Olshansky was the third best lineman in the chargers three man front

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by Hoyadestroya85 on May 28, 2009 4:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

How the flying hell...

…is Hedgecock ranked 6th?

He’s the best blocking fullback in the entire league. I could care less if he doesn’t do much else. Fullbacks are meant to block. And no one is better than he is.

by Jonathan. on May 29, 2009 10:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

My two pennies

I have no prob w/ Eli at 9. That’s pretty fair. He’ll move up plenty by the end of this season. And I’m glad Jacobs got some love. If any back had to share the ball as often as he has, they would never get ranked anywhere near the top 10 (believe, I’m glad he has to share, a down saved, is a down earned). Along those lines, I’d say it’s hard to justify a spot for any of our D-Line. They share the limelight and take away from each others’ stats (and help pad them, too).

by YankeeDudeL on Jun 1, 2009 2:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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