Chastise me if you must
I was thinking about how the Redskins want to replace Jason Campbell and I thought that there is somewhat of a trend happening in the NFL .
I hate pulling the race card and usually despise people who do so, but is there less patience for black quarterback in the NFL?
think of this:
The Jaguars are thinking of replacing David Garrard after a season where he got no help or protection.
Byron Leftwich showed promise but he got injured and no team wanted to take a chance on him until the desperate Bucs took a chance on him
Daunte Culpepper had some of the best statistical seasons by a quarterback in history, the Vikings got rid of him and they've been awful at QB ever since.
Vince Young had a good rookie season and won games plus but they still replaced him and he doesn't look to be in the future of the franchise for the time being.
Jason Campbell
Donovan McNabb.. As much as I despise the guy, he's a winner and a big time player. The Eagles would be stupid to let him go.
Tarvaris Jackson shouldn't have started in the first place but he was just as good as Joey Harrington or Rex Grossman but he started for less time.
I'm not saying this is anything definite but i'm saying that this is a strange pattern.. Rebuttals?
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I think you have a point
it does seem like teams have run out of patience for these guys quicker than other QB’s. Case in point Jake Delhomme. Heck, how many seasons now has McNabb been on the “hot seat,” despite every statistic putting him not far behind Peyton and Brady as the best QB of the decade.
by cjmulrain on Apr 13, 2009 4:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Culpepper, and McNabb are prime examples
daunte should have been allowed to retire a Viking. You don’t get rid of a QB that quickly who had done what he did there. The guy was incredible. They should have tried to retool once they traded Moss so that they could have given him another shot. Culpepper did really seem to decline tho, but he was an above average starter and should have been given that second chance
Delhomme may be done there by the end of this season. He really had surgery last year and this is his first season back. I wouldn’t really say he’s been bad for a long time. He was pretty good for a while there and unlike Culpepper he took the Panthers to a Bowl.
McNabb is point and center the main example. Its unbelievable how much the Eagles fans pile on this guy. And the insults usually have to do with him being black. That if a white QB was there he wouldn’t choke?
its a load of crap. McNabb is going to be a HOFer and only hasn’t won a bowl because the Eagles idea of surrounding him with weapons is one WR named TO. That’s it.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 13, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also think that
Campbell was only being considered replaced cuz Jay Cutler is that much better than him. Campbell probably will start this year and they probably won’t draft a 1st round QB.
I looke at Culpepper’s stats and he really kinda did play himself out of Minnesota. They probably could have kept him around for another year at least, but he wasn’t the samne.
McNabb of course being on the hot seat makes no sense to me.
But the other guys like Leftwich Jackson and Young didn’t exactly play even as well as Campbell to not deserve their ticket to wherever they are now. Garrard is alright, but I think that last year wasn’t his fault. The O-Line had basically every starter injured. Garrard will be the starter and Im pretty sure the Jags’ org. has stated as such.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 13, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True Eagles fans..
Love McNabb….its the ignorant casual fans of the eagles who dislike him
DeSEAN JACKSON THE ONE
by TheILLadeph on Apr 13, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how many
“True Eagles Fans” are there then.. because i live in philly.. and i hear nothing about him except what he’s worth on the open market, when he’s leaving or whether Kevin Kolb is ready or not.
It's not easy being Giants fan in Philly.. but it sure is satisfying
http://novafacts.blogspot.com
by Hoyadestroya85 on Apr 13, 2009 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's all I;ve ever heard too
far and few between realize how good the guy is. It almost seems some of you Sheagle fans are trying to remember the good old days when a Detmer brother was your starting QB.
by FreeBradshaw on Apr 13, 2009 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One win
I agree with Hoya about McNabb. I live in the Philly burbs and all the sports pundits talk about is Donovan’s faults. He doesn’t make good decisions. He can’t throw soft. He’s not accurate. He barfs in the huddle. I think if they had a decent receiving corps and Reid actually called 50% running plays, Donovan would be a star. I think he’s a Super Bowl win away from fan adoration.
I can’t remember, had we sainted Phil before he won the Super Bowl over the Broncos?
by TerraByte on Apr 14, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trust TheILLadeph when he says that true Eagles fans absolutely love Mcnabb. Maybe to be more accurate I should say “true and intelligent” Eagles fans love him. A large majority of Eagles fans consists of the loud, obnoxious, misinformed masses that don’t know anything about the sport, and also the media has an important role in fueling the fire.
Some teams go for decades without locking on to a true quarterback. Hell, the Eagles endured that struggle themselves not too long ago. It really is difficult to find a mainstay at the quarterback position, but to find one that has produced as consistently as Mcnabb has is very rare. I guess some people just don’t realize that QBs like Manning, Brady, Mcnabb, etc. are not a dime a dozen in this league – they are a rare commodity.
"Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." -Joe Theismann
by southjersey89 on Apr 15, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trent Green
is another guy that always ends up starting places when all he does is get injured
It's not easy being Giants fan in Philly.. but it sure is satisfying
http://novafacts.blogspot.com
by Hoyadestroya85 on Apr 13, 2009 5:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
True Identity???
Whoa whoa….Does Hoyadestroya85 = Rush Limbaugh??
by Cody K on Apr 13, 2009 5:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
haha..
if you met me you’d think so.. but i’m not a bloated pill popping idiot who is further fracturing the GOP i want to put a sock in his mouth and tie him up in a closet.. but enough politics, this was just bothering me.. The only firmly entrenched black starting QB is JaMarcus Russell and he hardly counts because he’s playing for Al Davis
It's not easy being Giants fan in Philly.. but it sure is satisfying
http://novafacts.blogspot.com
by Hoyadestroya85 on Apr 13, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not gonna dispute every example you give...
and the fact is there might be some truth to it, but consider Campell’s fellow first-round QB in the 2005 draft. Alex Smith, a bona fide white guy, was drafted 24 spots higher than Campell (1st overall compared to 25th), which tends to suggest a long leash, but there was talk of Smith being released as early as last year before he got hurt. The good folks of San Fran have already buried Smith and filled his grave with cement. The fact is teams don’t feel like wasting their time with a QB who they feel doesn’t have much of a future. This was true of Ryan Leaf (3 years with SD), Tim Couch (5 in Cle), Joey Harrington (4 with Det), and our very own David Carr (5 with Hou), in addition to some of the names you’ve listed.
by XLII on Apr 13, 2009 5:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
leaf..
was an ass to teammates and the media.. by all accounts leftwich, garrard and campbell are decent guys. 5 years is plenty of time to prove ones self. And smith has sucked since he got into the league. At least we know that Eli was durable
It's not easy being Giants fan in Philly.. but it sure is satisfying
http://novafacts.blogspot.com
by Hoyadestroya85 on Apr 13, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats a good observation..
and i do believe its less patients with black qbs. many people forget donte culpeper tore his knee to shreads. the guy was still working through his injury. carson palmer and matt hasselback have been hurt the last 2 years. mcnabb, they are stupid to entertain letting him go. the fans are a bunch of idoits. WHO DO THEY LIKE? tavaris jackson is not that good anyway for the vikings. i live in d.c. and the skins freakin stink, they dont have a o-line but wanted to pick up cutler. he wouldve been on his back too. leftwich is a beast!! his delivery is just slow, but the guy can play qb. trust me ive seen him in person.
to be honest the only qb i care about is ELI, as long as he does well the franchise well be safe!
GIANTS 2009!!
by rumble27 on Apr 13, 2009 6:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I've heard this argument before...
And this is a daring but easy card to pull. While football and our country was raised with such immoral beliefs, I highly doubt that all 32 NFL owners are against black QBs. I could be wrong, but I’m going to assume on this one. Now some may say, ‘well, not all 32 owners are rascist, just the ones who didn’t give the black QBs a fair chance.’ If they really were rascist I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t have gave them a shot in the first place.
Culpepper – The guy put up some ridiculous stats in MIN, but in ’05 and ’06 only played a combined 11 games due to injury… MIN probably felt it was time to move on.
McNabb – Has done extremely well over his career and probably a HOF’er… Let’s not forget that he does play in Philly, who boo santa claus, and although has been close numerous times, has yet to win a ring. Still I would agree with you – he has every right to be the starter.
Russell – We’ll see how much longer he’s the starter for. Honestly, I hope with Garcia there that we see Young/Collins part 2 this year – and no, not because he’s black but because he sucks.
Young – Decent rookie season gave his career a promising look, until he was struck by the Madden curse. The following year he threw 9 TDs to 17 INTs while trying to be more of a pocket QB than the scrambler that he is. This was more a case of Young not fitting the type of style TEN plays. Right now Collins gives TEN a better chance to compete… but I know he’ll be back after Collins and we’ll see how that unravels.
Campbell – Still the starter. Recent trade rumors were caused by Dan Synder being a greedy bastard, not Campbell’s capabilities.
Garrard – I was upset/confused when I heard the Jags are looking to draft a QB to replace Garrard. He struggled last year, mainly not his fault. He has been solid most his career and is a proven leader. I dont think the Jags draft a QB with the #8 pick.
Leftwich – Never really played poorly, always had pretty good numbers in JAX was just plauged with injuries and out played by his back-up, another black QB.
Jackson – He’s just not very good.
Vick – His best passing season was his sophomore year in ‘02 and has declined since… Put up plenty more yards in the rushing game but couldn’t get the passing game down – not a QB but rather an unbelievable athlete with an inaccurate cannon (and a f**ked up head). Released for obvious reasons.
There are plenty of other white QBs who haven’t had a fair shot and even more “undersized” ones that don’t even get looked at. All I’m saying is that I highly doubt that all 32 owners, if any, are racist and would rather see their team lose with a white QB than win with a black. If there is a racist owner out there who differs with my reasoning let me be the first to welcome them to the 21st century…
Sorry it’s long.
by one-bar on Apr 13, 2009 8:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i know its easy to pull
and i’m not suggesting any kind of racism or conspiracy by the owners and i think that a lot of it is driven by the fan pressure. I think part of the problem with McNabb is that he doesn’t play enough like a “black quarterback”. Russell will be the starter as long as he has a cannon for an arm and Al Davis is the head coach. Vick was a glorified running back and would still be starting for the falcons if he wasn’t an idiot. I’m not saying its a conspiracy, i’m basically saying its curious.
It's not easy being Giants fan in Philly.. but it sure is satisfying
http://novafacts.blogspot.com
by Hoyadestroya85 on Apr 13, 2009 9:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I actually think the "play like a black QB" thing might be important
In recent years, the NCAA has seen an influx of very successful black QB’s, most of whom (though certainly not all) play a particular style where their legs are just as important if not more than their arms. Unfortunately, however, that style of play doesn’t work as well in the NFL as it does in the NCAA, because the defensive players are faster and hit harder. Even the extreme physical freaks like Vick and Young can’t outrun the injury risk forever. The teams expect them to learn to sit in the pocket and play the “white” style, and lose patience when they don’t adapt, and the fans get frustrated that they’re not as exciting as they were when they first came into the league.
What’s funny is that there’s nothing “white” or “black” about this – Eric Crouch was a QB who relied on his legs, Warren Moon was a pocket passer who relied on his arm. One is a Hall of Famer and one didn’t even get a shot as an NFL QB. The difference, I think, is expectations. Leftwich, Jamarcus Russell, and David Garrard don’t play the way that the majority of fans expect them to play, and while I think it’s wrong, I think that upsets fans.
I feel like I had more points to make, but I had to leave for class before I finished writing this post and have now completely lost my train of thought. My general point is that there is a common perception that there’s a “white” way to play QB and a “black” way, and the “white” way has been more successful in the NFL. The truth is that it’s not a black or white issue, and as more black QB’s have success like Donovan McNabb has, I think this issue will hopefully begin to disappear.
by cjmulrain on Apr 14, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Culpepper also destroyed every ligament in his knee known to medical science
And Leftwich wouldve been an awesome QB in the 80s, hes too slow of foot and arm to succeed in todays NFL for very long.
I think youre grasping at straws here. The Skins giving up on Campbell is indicative of how poorly that team is run
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Apr 13, 2009 10:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Leftwich too slow?
He’s no slower than Eli is he?
by blue gonz on Apr 13, 2009 11:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
his release
is very slow, more than his mobility. That’s been the knock on him.
by DoctorK16 on Apr 13, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, thanks
That would do it. Come to think of it, Eli isn’t real fast, but not slow enough for it to be a concern. Not every QB can aspire to be as quick as Marino.
by blue gonz on Apr 14, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Race and QB
I don’t think this is a simple issue. Let me preface this with the fact I’m black and I watch this closely. I think a couple different issues are at play with the shorter leashes for black QB’s. One is they don’t make the personal connection with the fans the same way a white QB can. When the white fan sees Eli Manning, they see a guy who could be there family and they can relate to. They’re willing to cut slack. They are not going to see a guy like say Vince Young in that light. So when things go south performancewise the leash is shorter because the personal connection isn’t made. I think the teams marketing is driven by this, when they hear sports talk giving up on a guy like McNabb, the team panicks and think this is costing us money cause the fans don’t like our QB and won’t by tix and jersey. It’s a complex issue that’s not just race. It has to do really with Marketing and who team think their fanbase is. It’s not just football you see this in, I think has happened with Latin stars on the Mets also.
by DoctorK16 on Apr 13, 2009 11:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i agree..
The reason that Vick stayed the QB in atlanta is that they could market him well because he could connect with the fans because of the Falcons largely black fanbase. It’s very hard to market Tarvaris Jackson in Minnesota or Donovan McNabb in Philly because there is a lot of latent and also fairly obvious racism among Philadelphia’s fanbase.. That and they’re just rotten angry fans who haven’t won a championship in the only sport the really care about.
It's not easy being Giants fan in Philly.. but it sure is satisfying
http://novafacts.blogspot.com
by Hoyadestroya85 on Apr 14, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're certainly on target re Eli.
Fans bend over backward to cut him slack. They also tend to exaggerate the skills he does possess. The biggest compliment I can personally extend him is that he has usually played his best when the team most needed him to do so.
Have you seen the recent HBO Thrilla in Manila? I’d love to hear you’re take on it. Like Larry Holmes, I’ve always believed Ali was overrated, that he won a lot of decisions because the refs let him get away with murder (like Ali-Frazier II ) and that the adoring public was blind to the punishment he absorbed during his career. (A large part of his legend is that no one could lay a glove on him when the fact was that he had extraordianry recuperative powers.)
Had Futch let Smoking Joe go out for round 15 (not saying he should have), Joe would have won III—Ali collapsed in his corner as soon as he stood up to accept the plaudits of the crowd. Another scenario for a Frazier win would have been for Dundee to obey Ali’s order to cut off his gloves in the corner between rounds 14 and 15.
What I’m most interested in is how true was Ali’s claim that black America rooted for him and white America for Frazier. I always found that Ali’s most ardent fans were white Americans.
by blue gonz on Apr 14, 2009 9:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ali-Frazer
I haven’t seen Thriller yet. Maybe I’ll order on-demand this weekend. I’m only 30 so what i know of Ali-Frazer came from family. All the stuff with Ali refusing to be inducted to the army giving the reason that “no Vietnamese never called me n**gger” made him popular among younger blacks at that time. The more conservative folks may had thought it to be too much and may have been more in Frazer corner.
by DoctorK16 on Apr 14, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Young Ali
may have been the greatest ever.. but people don’t seem to realize that he extended his career three or four years too long and got lazy in his training.. I can’t see how someone could put him over Joe Lewis or even Jack Johnson
It's not easy being Giants fan in Philly.. but it sure is satisfying
http://novafacts.blogspot.com
by Hoyadestroya85 on Apr 14, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The definition of a champion ...
“played his best when the team most needed him to do so.” (Think of Eli versus A-Rod.)
by TerraByte on Apr 14, 2009 10:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yup, Terra,
Eli’s got that going for him and all Giants’ fans should be happy about it.
by blue gonz on Apr 14, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ferdie advised him to never fight again after the third Frazier fight, saying
he had taken too great a beating to continue in the ring. The Muslims wanted him to continue, so did Dundee (and apparently Ali.) One of the revelations of the documentary is that Joe was almost totally blind in one eye for eleven years before the third fight. (Who says boxing’s corrupt?) When his other eye closed halfway through the thirteenth, he was blind. He fought that way for a round and a half, for which Ferdie called him dumb. He wanted to come out for the fifteenth; Ali didn’t. Clearly Joe had the bigger heart, although Ali showed great courage fighting with Norton till the end despite a jaw broken in an early round and for standing up under all the beatings he took later in his career (admittedly the hypnotized fansdidn’t see them as such, apparently blind to the punches he was taking.)
As for the young Ali as the gretest ever, I can’t accept that evaluation having seem a light heavy, Doug Jones, clearly ourbox him (yeah, Jones lost the decision) before Ali won the title. Jimmy Young later did the same. Ali was a huge box office draw from the time of the Olympics and had the Boxing establishment behind him all the way, which explains why he could get away with so much in the ring and why he won so many fights by TKOs when his opponent looked like he had a lot left. Ali didn’t have a true heavyweight’s punch either. Just look at the first five rounds of the last fight with Frazier. He hit Joe with every thing he had, but didn’t slow him down. Joe’s explanation for lasting through those five rounds was that Ali couldn’t punch, something Holmes claimed as well.
by blue gonz on Apr 14, 2009 3:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
u got some points there
one thing u shud look at though is Mcnabbs stats before as compared to after every time they say they r gonna drop him. take this year. cards shud have wrecked the eagles but mcnabbs job was on the line so he played a hell of agame. letys hope the eagles dont notice this and throw in some young guy to motivate him. (relating to jacobs having to haul to stay ahead of ward and bradshaw as starter)
by Greyfox on Apr 27, 2009 4:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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