Giants have had some first-round flops
by Ed Valentine on Mar 9, 2009 7:00 AM EDT
in News
60 comments
Make a mistake with your first-round selection in the NFL Draft and you can set your franchise back for years.
As we lead up to this April's draft, let's study Giant drafts in the modern era. I will define 'modern' as from 1970 to today. Yes, that takes us through what we refer to as 'The Wilderness Years.' Doing that, though, might help us learn something about the difference between success and failure in the NFL.
Let's start by discussing the Giants' worst No. 1 draft choices since 1970. Vote in the poll at the end of this post for the player you think has been the Giants' worst No. 1 pick during the era we are discussing.
Here is my list, in chronological order.
Rocky Thompson (1971) -- Drafted 18th overall, Thompson gained a grand total of 302 yards from scrimmage in three awful seasons. A speedster, he did return two kickoffs for touchdowns. You don't draft guys in the first round to be kick returners, though.
By the way, the Giants did not have first-round picks in 1973 or 1975. No wonder they stunk! Couldn't draft, or didn't have a chance to.
Butch Woolfolk (1982) -- Another running back taken 18th overall, and another flop. He lasted three unproductive season in New York, losing his job to Joe Morris. Had stops in both Houston and Detroit after the Giants, and was a miserable failure in both of those places, as well.
George Adams (1985) -- Another first-round running back (19th this time), another flop. Started all of 8 games in four seasons with the Giants.
Jarrod Bunch (1991) -- What is it with the Giants and drafting crummy running backs? After being selected 27th in 1991, Bunch amassed a total of 785 career yards in three NFL seasons.
Derek Brown (1992) -- A tight end from Notre Dame, Brown was a complete washout. He was a horrible receiver who caught just 11 balls for 87 yards in three seasons. Somehow, he lasted four more seasons in the league after the Giants got rid of him.
Cedric Jones (1996) -- The Giants missed out on Simeon Rice that year, and took Jones 5th overall because they felt they had to have a defensive end. Jones never came close to the production expected from a player chosen that early. He had one 7.5-sack season in a non-descript five-year career.
Ron Dayne (2000) -- Again with the running backs! Maybe we should just steer clear of Knowshon Moreno. Dayne won the Heisman Trophy at Wisconsin, and we know had a very ordinary career. He got buried behind Tiki Barber, and ended up as a journeyman who never got an opportunity as a lead back.
William Joseph (2003) -- The Giants drafted Joseph 25th overall when defensive tackles were the rage. He was the 6th one taken in the first round that year (the 10th defensive lineman) and never lived up to it. He was really Jay Alford, and had he been a third-round pick like Alford his production probably would have been OK. But, as first-round picks go 80 tackles and 7 sacks in 5 seasons just doesn't cut it.
Anyone else you think should be here?
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Right, he was a special pre-draft choice.
by blue gonz on Mar 9, 2009 7:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even though he was taken in the supplemental, I still think he counts. In my opinion anyway. Always enjoy the articles. Thanks!
by maurerg on Mar 9, 2009 7:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
considering he was was a sup draft pick
i think we got tremendous value out of brown, all things considered.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON. WE WANT THE MANSION NOT THE CONDO.
by kendynamo on Mar 9, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Supplemental Draft
I didn’t count him because he wasn’t part of the regular draft.
by Ed Valentine on Mar 9, 2009 7:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've always felt Rockywas their worst choice ever, particularly
since he was a total unknown coming out of college. The rection to the pick was, “Rocky who?”
When you compare the modern era to the previous era you can see that the Giants gradually weaned themselves away from first round offensive back picks. From ‘36-59, they chose 22 (including two QBs.). Every year from 38-45 they chose one. If you go back and look at pre ’70 NFL # 1 picks you’ll find that choosing an RB was pretty common, a far cry from today when RBs are considered a dime a dozen.
by blue gonz on Mar 9, 2009 7:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
how the ideas change over time.
by Ed Valentine on Mar 9, 2009 7:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW, George
I agree with you about Thompson. Tells you a lot that no team picked him up after the Giants let him go.
by Ed Valentine on Mar 9, 2009 7:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I realize that hindsight is always 20-20 but
the next two picks after Thompson that year were Jack Tatum and Jack Youngblood. You could put together a pretty imposing all-time team just from players passed over by the Giants during the Wilderness Years.
And let’s not forget the years that they had no No. 1. The worst in my opinion was when they traded a No. 1 pick to Dallas for Craig Morton, who played three seasons, was cut, and then proceeded to lead Denver to the Super Bowl. That No. 1 pick became perennial All-Pro Randy White.
Little surprise that they stunk for as long as they did.
by django48 on Mar 9, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, the bitter memories.
I can’t imagine how they unearthed Rocky. Of course who they could have chosen as # 1 picks as compared to the actuals enters into any judgement re who was the worst of all.
by blue gonz on Mar 9, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Andy Robustelli
was GM in those days. Wellington Mara found him running a travel agency and asked him to come on board to run the team.
I remember when Thompson was dratted. They justified it by saying he was a “sleeper” pick.
by django48 on Mar 9, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No love (or hate) for Cedric Jones?
Thomas Lewis?
I would argue both of those were worse than Butch Woolfolk. At least Woolfolk managed to find work after the Giants were done with him, Jones and Lewis were out of football when the Giants gave up on them.
Also, Woolfolk played on really bad teams in NY and elsewhere.
I’m not saying he was any good, but I think Jones and Lewis were both worse.
Giants fan from the womb to the tomb
by Jim Schmiedeberg on Mar 9, 2009 7:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Lewis
just barely avoided this list. Maybe he should also be on it.
by Ed Valentine on Mar 9, 2009 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh man, its early.....
I totally missed Cedric Jones when I read this. Oops. I think after I saw Derek Brown’s name I just went blank.
Still think Thomas Lewis belongs on the list though
Giants fan from the womb to the tomb
by Jim Schmiedeberg on Mar 9, 2009 8:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
cedric jones
is the first draft bust i remember actively getting psised about. before than i was young enough to just cheer when the giants did good and that was about it. cederic jones effectivley soiled my fandom innocence. thanks jerk.
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON. WE WANT THE MANSION NOT THE CONDO.
by kendynamo on Mar 9, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thomas Lewis
…….I think I have his NFL rookie card floating around somewhere. Shockingly, I have yet to urinate on it or feed it to a dog.
by Cody K on Mar 9, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
George would have to enlighten me here....
What about Eldridge Small, 1972?
Giants fan from the womb to the tomb
by Jim Schmiedeberg on Mar 9, 2009 9:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Me, too
I didn’t remember enough about him to even think about him for this list.
by Ed Valentine on Mar 9, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He deserves consideration, but there are far worse
- picks on Ed’s list. Looking at those names helps to explain the Wilderness Years. Van Pelt was a second round pick and the best one the Giants made during that time. He was a great pitcher and most teams thought he’d play baseball where the big money was. He was a risk that worked out. Otherwise, after Sherman’s early years, the the Giants were a disaster until they hired George Young and gave him a free hand.
I see a huge # of votes for Dayne. He was over-hyped, disappointing, but showed promise early (remember "Thunder and Lightning?) He was big, but thought he was a scat back. The Giants thought they were getting a BJ type. Like Small, he deserves consideration, but there are far worse choices on the list. I think Dayne reflects the average age of BBVers, who are too young to remember the Rocky Thompson Horror Show and some of the other names on the list.
by blue gonz on Mar 9, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dayne
I think the Dayne votes show the youth of our audience. Cedric Jones, Rocky Thompson, Derek Brown were far, far worse selections. I am guessing, though, that a good portion of our audience is not familiar with them.
by Ed Valentine on Mar 9, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
although I think with Dayne, it was the hype of getting a Heisman winner that made him seem more disappointing. He actually wasn’t a terrible #2 back (and helped us get to a Super Bowl). I voted for Cedric Jones, b/c he was such a high pick and he was such a bust.
by cjmulrain on Mar 9, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heisman winners?
Not the best predictor of success. As many busts as future stars on the list.
by django48 on Mar 9, 2009 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly why I voted for Dayne.
I felt the letdown was the biggest with him.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Mar 10, 2009 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wilderness Years
Painful, George, I know. The other thing that explains those years, to a degree, is how many picks those years. They did it several times.
by Ed Valentine on Mar 9, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's a good point
I went with Cedric Jones, but is important to keep in perspective the Dayne did contribute, if only usually the first 6 weeks of the season
by queler on Mar 9, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eldridge Small was terrible...cornerback and wide receiver
but no good at either.
Another was a number one pick for John Hicks, I think from Ohio State. He was supposed to be a great lineman but sucked big time.
by giant fan since 57 on Mar 9, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, after thinking it over I guess you could say John Hicks was a decent guard....
but he never really lived up to the hype when he was drafted in my opinion
by giant fan since 57 on Mar 9, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about WRs
We haven’t had too much success drafting WRs either.
by John W on Mar 9, 2009 11:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ingram, Lewis and Hilliard were the only # 1 picks.
Certainly not outstanding but good enough to avoid the list IMO, especially Ike.
by blue gonz on Mar 9, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I picked Bunch
because there was no purpose to draft him in the first place considering we had drafted Rodney the year before and still had Meggett
It's not easy being Giants fan in Philly.. but it sure is satisfying
http://novafacts.blogspot.com
by Hoyadestroya85 on Mar 9, 2009 3:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I remember waiting for him to
show something. And waiting. And waiting. And….
by blue gonz on Mar 9, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bunch
The impression I had was that he was drafted mainly as a blocking fullback for Hampton and Meggett, with the occasional short yardage carry. Not that you’d ever want to waste a #1 on that position.
by django48 on Mar 9, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
didn't
we still have carthon at that point?
It's not easy being Giants fan in Philly.. but it sure is satisfying
http://novafacts.blogspot.com
by Hoyadestroya85 on Mar 9, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We did.
But he was on the downside of his career. He retired after the ‘92 season. Oddly enough, in 1992 Bunch was named Giants offensive player of the year and his 4.8 yards per carry average was second in the NFL. But then again, those were Ray Handley’s Giants…
by django48 on Mar 9, 2009 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bunch Was The Worst By Far
This wasn’t simply a swing and miss on a player. It was a failure of the Giants front office to recognize the devalued nature of the fullback position. Even if Bunch had turned out to be good enough to push Tom Rathman off the Pro Bowl roster, he wouldn’t have been worth a first round pick. It only compounds the mistake that Bunch was a bust of a fullback. Jerry Reese picked up a better one off the scrap heap in Madison Hedgecock.
by Be Driven on Mar 30, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about
Tyrone Wheatley? Another Round One #17 disappointment, though not in Thompson’s class.
by django48 on Mar 9, 2009 4:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He was awful for the Giants, but then played for
the Raiders (I think) and had a couple of good years.
by blue gonz on Mar 9, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wheatley
i always thought was a guy who could play, but didn’t really get an opportunity. The Giants still had Rodney Hampton, and I believe also had Tiki Barber at the same time.
by Ed Valentine on Mar 9, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if we're judging only based on their Giants' careers
then Wheatley should be on the list. the good thing is that here are the five RBs taken right after him: Napoleon Kaufman, James Stewart, Rashaan Salaam, Sherman Williams, and Terrell Fletcher – not exactly a list of All-Pros. then again, some of the other RBs they could’ve had included Curtis Martin (#74) and Terrell Davis (#196), but they made up for that with the selection of the immortal Charles Way (#206).
by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Mar 9, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the bright side..
Thompson apparently did have an awesome ’fro.
by JoshNY on Mar 9, 2009 5:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What about Dave Brown?
Do you guys remember (try not to think about this one!) Dave Brown, the Duke quarterback who the G-men wasted a supplemental 1st round draft choice on? I know he was a 1992 supplemental 1st round pick—-“Brown was marked as an underachiever in his years with the Giants. He did not instill much confidence in his teammates and seemed to lack the big play potential.”— Wikipedia—He was a real bust, a real stiff…
by mrchrister on Mar 9, 2009 7:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We already talked about Brown
He’s not on the list because he was a Supplemental pick. He gets his own special category of awful-ness.
by Ed Valentine on Mar 9, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never really understood supplemental picks.
All I know is that when the Giants picked Brown, they lost their #1 pick the following year, from which I assumed it was the equivalent of a #1.
by django48 on Mar 9, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I voted for Rocky Thompson.
As best as I remember he never broke a single tackle in all the time he played. Guys would reach out with one finger and he would flop like a fish out of water.
by giant fan since 57 on Mar 9, 2009 8:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I remember Lewis, Jones and Dayne
Lewis kept busting his knee on that horrible, mangling turf. Didn’t Jones have some eye problem, and they found out after the draft he was basically legally blind? My pick was for Dayne, because I was so excited, and he really should have been the next Jerome Bettis. I have never seen a big back “hit” the hole with such apathy and timidness. The absolute opposite of Jacobs in every way, shape and form (just compare the musculature of the two. It’s like comparing Karl Malone and Derrick Coleman).
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Mar 9, 2009 8:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My enduring memory of Lewis
Is a kickoff TD he had (the Skins I think) where Herschel Walker made the first block on the 20, then caught and passed Lewis on the opposing 30. It was the slowest kickoff TD ever. Took like 16 seconds.
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Mar 9, 2009 8:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Gotta be Jones
I mean he was a top 5 pick, when we couldve had:
Terry Glenn
Willie Anderson
Marvin Harrison!!!
Mike Alstott
Lawyer Milloy
Brian Dawkins
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Mar 9, 2009 9:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
bad 1st round picks
What about G John Hicks from Ohio St?
by royhobbs7 on Mar 9, 2009 11:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Several things
George Young had a very interesting draft history. It seems after the first couple of years, the Giants did very poorly in the first round, but did really well in later rounds, getting steals such as Jessie Armstead, I think the same could be said about Accorsi. I remember thinking at one point that EA should trade away all the first round picks for more picks in later rounds, since that was where he did better anyway.
In the Dan Reeves years, I thought that one of the biggest failures was the inability to develop the younger talent. I don’t know if it was the picks themselves or the coaching staff at fault, but it seems the Giants did better with other coaches.
Drafting is always a gamble. I am sure that any time you can look at has their share of busts. All you can do is try to ensure that the player has the physical tools and has a head screwed on reasonably straight.
After that, the coaches have to be able to teach and develop the talent, and to find the system and the role that fits
by NYERinSF on Mar 9, 2009 11:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Busts
Think about Mike Mamula.. If he had been a third round pick like he should have… he would have been thought of as a “steal” but since the eagles bypassed warren sapp to draft him he’s a huge bust. A bust could still be a good NFL player but doesn’t live up to the billing. Jeff George is another example.. he had a couple of good seasons but he was never someone’s franchise quarterback
It's not easy being Giants fan in Philly.. but it sure is satisfying
http://novafacts.blogspot.com
by Hoyadestroya85 on Mar 10, 2009 12:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great stuff but what about later round steals?
I guess a lot of you guys are a little older than I am because I’m not familiar with a couple of the names. My vote went to Dayne because he was a Heisman winner and was suppose to be Jacobs before we got Jacobs. As for a later round steals, I go the the before mentioned Jacobs. The “experts” thought our running game would be lost without Tiki, but Jacobs has proved them wrong and IMO is the heart and soul of the Giants (at least offensively).
by njgiant on Mar 10, 2009 8:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Steals
I will get to those. One round at a time. It’s a loooooong time between now and next season. I can’t use up all my good stuff in one day. LOL!! BTW, check Wednesday for a look at some of the great second-round selections the Giants have made.
by Ed Valentine on Mar 10, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can deal with that
Are you going for a round per day type deal. 2nd round Wednesday, 3rd round Thursday…let me know so that I can have my facts straight. Can’t remember all of the picks from the top of my head.
by njgiant on Mar 10, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We will see
Nothing today because there is some news. Tomorrow, second round. Don’t know if I will do a round a day or combine, say, rounds 3-4 and 5-6-7 … probably enough history to do a round each time. I don’t remember them all, either. Luckily, I have a media guide to reference.
by Ed Valentine on Mar 10, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cedrick Jones
No contest.
What a bland, vanilla career from a top 5 pick. Joke of a pick, joke of a player.
by Jonathan. on Mar 10, 2009 11:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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