Giants' defensive linemen deserve the heat
by Ed Valentine on Dec 6, 2009 7:41 AM EST
in News
81 comments
Great stuff from Mike Garafolo on the state of mind of the beleaguered New York Giants defensive linemen.
"Guys are fearing for their jobs," [Barry] Cofield, the Giants’ starting defensive tackle since the team selected him in the fourth round of the 2006 draft, said the other day. "Our unit’s been together for years. In comes (Justin) Tuck, out goes ‘Stray’ (the retired Michael Strahan), but other than that it’s been the same unit.
"Everyone will play, everyone will contribute. But it goes a long way in making it clear that accountability stretches to everyone — no matter how long you’ve been with the team."
My take: Good, they should be uncomfortable. I know some of these guys are beat up, and MG talks about that in his post, but this team was built counting on dominant play from the front four, and that has not happened. Way back in pre-season I was asked on a radio show if this line would be historically good. Seems like a pretty foolish question now, doesn't it?
By the way, I am going to guess that based on injuries and ineffectivness today's inactives look a lot different than what we are used to. Here is a guess -- Ware, D.B. Johnson, Koets, Whimper, Moss, Beckum, Hagan, Bernard.
(E-mail Ed at bigblueview@gmail.com)
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Good.
They should start fearing for their jobs. They’ve been playing like a bunch of dudes who got 10 year guaranteed contracts.
Of course…this doesn’t help the other one…that one that plays RB. Hopefully playing the Cowboys is enough of a motivator for him to HIT SOMEONE.
So Ed….you’re predicting Gartrell and Barden to suit up?
I really hope they do inactivate Bernard, tho I dunno how they can.
"It ain't over till its over"---
Gartrell and Barden
Yes, I am. Gartrell is a no-brainer because of Ware being out. Barden, I think, will be in because Hagan’s status is iffy. As for Bernard, word from practice this week was he didn’t even line up when they were in goal line defense situations. So … leads you to think his position right now is “left out.”
Interesting stuff about Osi
maybe not being around, I wonder if they trade him for draft picks . The only problem with that is Kiwi has not really become the player I think most people thought. I hate to say it but I see a couple of years of rebuilding for this team.
Kiwi
I still think Kiwi, used properly, can be a very good defensive end. Maybe not Pro Bowl dominant, but solid.
Kiwi actually looks a bit more stout this year ...
Maybe he’s been able to bulk up to better fit the DE position. His legs used to look like tooth-picks.
Osi has not only declined, but is mouthing off to cover it up (AP anyone ?).
Bottom line, I’d rather see Kiwi in there.
Isn't it scary that the Giants
are probably gonna have to draft a pass rusher or 2?
I can most def. see Osi being traded.
…but we gotta remember, there’s a lot of season to go.
These guys still have a chance to show who they are.
"It ain't over till its over"---
Draft
Long way away, but I would prefer a stout defensive tackle over a pass-rushing DE to be honest. I think Bernard, Robbins and possibly Cofield could all be gone next year.
Agreed
We need some big fat guy in the middle to stop the run.
That’s whats been our biggest problem this year imo. If we get a run stopper in the middle, Osi doesn’t look quite so bad, and it would also make the linebackers look better.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
In addition to that
it would be nice to see a DT there when Osi, Tuck, Kiwi or whoever is at DE makes the QB step up.
I agree.
I’d like a stout DT.
….a pass rusher would help too (especially if they do try to trade Osi—which I think isn’t all that possible)
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 6, 2009 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
Agree
Robbins is done, I think Bernard it depends on his contract, Cofield may be too but they may also keep him because they feel he is young and might be fully recovered from surgery by next year. Did you watch Texas/Nebraska last night? The D-Tackle Suh on Nebraska was amazing, 10 tackles and 3 sacks, He’ll probabbly be a top 5 pick but man I heard about him all year but that was the first I got to see of him and he was dominating against a very good team. Maybe G-Men trade Osi to move up and draft him. The other reason I would draft a D-Tackle over pass-rushing end is Sintim might be the additional pass rusher we are looking for, I have a feeling once he starts playing more he’ll be a DE on obvius passing situations with an extra D-Back taking his spot. He was more or less a Pass rushing D-End in college he could fill that role in the future.
I dunno how the Giants are getting the #1 overall tho.....
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 6, 2009 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
He better Go #1 overall
I mean if the Rams get #1, then I can see QB.
But the Browns don’t exactly have a QB, but they should’ve been giving Brady Quinn a chance at least this season.
Every team that passes on him is just flat out dumb.
I could imagine him with Spags in ST Louis tho.
Carriker and Long haven’t panned out well…but if they had Suh too in there…could be dominant.
"It ain't over till its over"---
I know those at teh top of the draft are generally incompetent...
but that’s some sort of incompetence to pass this guy up.
He had 4 1/2 sacks yesterday..and pretty much contributed to all 9 sacks and every QB pressure.
Just him staying at the LOS and acting like a spy…he caused pressure for the other guys.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 6, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
O'Hara has been the Giatns best Lineman actually
so uh…no to that.
LG could probably be done by putting Diehl at LG and Beatty at LT.
The new lineman spot for the Giants should be a RT, unless of course they think Diehl is better at LT, Beatty for RT and a new LG.
…cuz McKenzie’s shot too.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 6, 2009 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed on McKenzie ...
he seems done. My guess is he’s cut in off-season.
Seubert they should keep for line depth, but we need a new starter there. He has really declined this year, especially against pass-rush.
Ideally get a LT, move Diehl to LG and Beatty at RT (not sure he’s ready for LT quite yet.
I know!
Pass rusher was the biggest strength now we need a pass rusher D-Tackles, LB’s and saftey, o-linemen, and a RB that can catch the ball. Who know’s maybe the Giants have a few guys like that on their roster that can fill those roles like Sintim, Goff, Beaty, Ware, Andre Brown and maybe Philips can come back at a high level but it’s still all up in the air. It’s a little depressing as a fan knowing this. I can’t believe I’m hopeing and praying for Michael Johnson to play my god how far has this team sunk.
Osi and pick(s)?
At this point, i think it might be a little hard trying to find out what his value may be? What would teams be willing to give up, and for which Osi? The game w/ 6 sacks Osi (selling high), or the Osi who couldn’t register a tackle against Denver (selling low, and take the best offer)?
Perhaps the Rams (Spags) would be the first to entertain any deal. But definitely not a 1st rounder!
He makes too much, which would be the problem.
Tho, maybe it could help the Giants move up in the draft?
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 6, 2009 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
what about kicker?
I saw Leigh Tiffen from Alabama and Alex Henry from Nebraska as 2 kickers with really strong kicking legs.
Henry even punts too.
Should the Giants draft one in the first round?
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 6, 2009 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
BTW
..Henry can kick 57 yarders.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 6, 2009 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
How Awful is this
The Giants are playing the Cowboys at home in December and were talking about next years draft. I feel like a Jets fan!
Exactly
there is so much defeatism here. Not that it isn’t warranted, but we’re the giants! not the stupid jets.
We have a month of football left to determine things.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
It's not too awful lol
I think most, if not all of the draft chatter is a direct result of what needs to be done. But, i know what you mean as we still have some football left. I think draft talk is a way for some to vent?!
Let's not forget --
- the performance of the D-Line in Dec of 2008. Not good. Yes, injuries, yes, yes, but end result - the writing was on the wall. Other teams found a way — more than apparent by game one of this season — to neutralize the rush. Despite some flashes of what was, the D-line has sucked for over a year now. There is no fire — on either side of the ball. I’m giving this team my heart, once again, this week. But facts and my gut point me towards….
Cowboys 31, Giants 13.
Giants favored by 2 1/2?
Is it me, or is anyone else shocked that NY is favored by 2 1/2 (according to the Star Ledger)?
Hate to say this, but I see Dallas willing big.
hmm..
The season isn’t over! Please have some faith. I will agree, they have played soft and a lot of players are being moved around but I wouldn’t give up on Osi yet. How much do we lose if we trade him? What do we trade him for/how many picks? Any players involved?
A little off subject..
Anyone like Tebow as a reliable QB in the NFL? I say fullback/tight end..any thoughts? Gmen could use his energy/athleticism
He's the ultimate Wildcat ...
but only the Dolphins seem to be able to make that consistently work.
Tebow
I don’t have a clue what any team will do with him…all I know is if someone signs him to be a pocket passer he is going to suck something awful.
Just saying
I wouldn’t have a clue either how the Giants would use him, if the Giants drafted him. I think a very creative OC would probably be needed?
ya think?
With Gilbride as the OC, there is no reason for them to draft Tebow.
They can’t even figure out how to use Boss in the RZ (or at least took until the ATL game to figure it out).
The hell would they do with someone like Tebow?
I’m thinking Tebow could be like a Brandon Jacobs RB, with of course the wildcat ability.
I would not be surprised at all to see the Dolphins draft him.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 6, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
JAX might draft him ...
more for the local here / sell some tickets angle, than a true need.
Those hybrid / tweener guys are tough to figure. Could be huge, and could be a bust.
Also, not too impressed ...
with his crying jag after the Alabama game. Dude.
I've heard that...
Doesn’t make much sense, cuz if he sucks…people are not gonna watch anyway.
..of course, he could be a hero and all the Gator fans would actually watch JAX.
And yea, on the crying…I dunno about it.
I mean, I actually could see him crying even if they won, cuz he’s looking at it as the last game he plays (at least until the bowl game..which he’s doing anyway.).
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 6, 2009 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
Hybrid/tweener guys
Thats where i give McNabb some credit. Coming out of Syracuse, they ran the freeze option offense and not too many, if at all, any option QB’s succeed in the NFL.
That's where Tebow could skyrocket up the charts.
He shows something, like obviously McNabb did, in the offseason workouts, he could be a first rounder, maybe high first rounder.
He’s got the smarts and mentality and work ethic, that’s not a question.
He’s a ‘football player’..plain and simple.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 6, 2009 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Nah.
I mean he seems like a hard worker and all. I also remember that Pat White after the offseason workouts, scouts and all a them talked about how he could throw well.
I think Tebow has a similar arm to Pat White, and since he’s 6"3 240+, he has a chance.
I wouldn’t put it past him to be a very good NFL QB….its just I wouldn’t draft him either, at least with a first or 2nd rounder.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 6, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
For what?
TE? We don’t need one. FB? no team is going to waste a first round pick on a FB. QB? I can see a team like the Raiders waste their #1 drafting Tebow.
Thx for the feedback..
I was just wondering, because he’s athletic as hell. Someone told me they’d even use him like the Steelers used Stewart, a slash type player..even play D, maybe S Safety..If i were a GM i’d take a chance at him, not anything from rounds 1-3, 4th or later. Put it this way, he wouldnt hurt a team. He does cry a lot, wtf is with that. Who’s to say he winds up in the NFL, he’s might end up passing out food in some 3rd world country this time next year
Why..
is ESPN even making a big deal about Vick returning to ATL, he’s been a non factor there. If he was a star again then yeah, but unless McNabb is out for the rest of the season, he’s going to play 2-3 snaps a game at most.
They shouldn’t have a 2hr pre game show on ESPN, I wish i got NFL network, at least they have HOF on their team. They don’t hire guys like Tim Hasselbeck/Trent Dilfer/Herm Edwards..
I said the same thing.
seriously, who cares? More ESPN Hyperbole
ESPN sucks...
but overall I like their pre-game stuff the best.
I can’t stand CBS cuz of Esiason, and I refuse to watch Fox with Jimmy Johnson on there, he’s a fool.
After watching them for as long as I’ve been…it just seems like Fox and CBS just don’t do anything the whole time.
..tho yea, I’d like to get NFL Network.
"It ain't over till its over"---
NFL Network
I mostly watch the NFL Network. They don’t ram the same story down our throats like ESPN. ESPN is terrible. Most of their analysts are clueless. The average fan is more partial with better insight.
yup
they do beat a story up, i hate how they have like a story that says ‘Game of the Week’ w/a high scoring game, and show 2 highlights in the last quarter/inning or whatever. I’m overseas and we only get one sports channel which is ESPN, thank God for the internet and NFL.com/network
Is the whole injury thing a big deal or is the media blowing it up
as far as players playing/not playing hurt. It’s a catch 22, your damned if you do damned if you don’t type thing. Who’s to say a players too hurt besides the player themselves. If Big Ben or any other player has a damn concussion then he’s probably not going to play the next week. Why are the players calling him soft? Is it just to much machismo on the teammates part or am I just being soft and protecting the players?
When LT didn’t play in that playoff game you had people calling him soft, he wimped out etc. What if you play hurt and get hurt even worse..then who’s to blame
Should we switch to a 3-4 next season?
I’ve been thinking lately that our personnel might be better suited for a 3-4 now. Kiwi and Sintim would make great pass rushing outside linebackers. Tuck would be a great 3-4 end. Canty has already played a 3-4 end. The only position we don’t have is nose tackle. I wonder if there are any good nose tackles in next year’s draft.
oh yes
I think so for sure..we have the athletic players for a 3-4 D, but a lot of teams struggle w/that switch
http://walterfootball.com/draft2010NT.php
check that out for 2010 draft prospects
by GintzFan4life on Dec 6, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
We can't find 1 good MLB
Where are we going to get the 2 that we need for a 3-4?
by mclaren_is_the_best on Dec 6, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
..
any big free agent LBs for next year?
by GintzFan4life on Dec 6, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
You planning on them cutting 3/4 of the team in order to sign these guys?
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 6, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Were fine with the 4-3
just need a competent coordinator and some young talent at DT.
and a healthy Kenny Phillips
by mclaren_is_the_best on Dec 6, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
unless they've been signed
Rudd from TB, Merriman and Davis from Carolina, Ryans from Houston
Only Merriman's playing a 3-4 before....
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 6, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
just throwing names out
I wasn’t saying sign all those guys, obviously Rudd and Merriman are going to be paid top dollar..
they're not going to the 3-4 tho
they could…but it would take a whole lot.
The Packers did it cuz they already had guys like Jolly and Ryan Pickett, not to mention their new first round pick BJ Raji.
The Giants have no one that big.
"It ain't over till its over"---
The Pitt NT is a FA and will not likely be re-signed
if the Giants get him thats the only way there is even discussion of 3-4 switch and the Giants are not signing him he’s 31 and will cost way too much.
For arguments sake if they did get a 3-4 NT which is very hard, Canty and Tuck could play end and Sintim and Kiwi could play OLB. Sinitm was a 3-4 OLB is college and Kiwi could probabbly convert becasue a lot of 3-4 OLB’s in the NFL are converted 4-3 Ends, like Woodly and Dumerville. ILB would be a problem I don’t know if Goff or Boley could play ILB in a 3-4 John Vilma struggled to convert when Mangini came over thats why he’s with the Saints.
So no the Giants will not convert to a 3-4 next unless they bring in a bunch of new guys with different skill sets and and new D-coordinator that runs a 3-4.
If you were to tell me earlier this fall that Osi (of course I bought an Authentic Jersey with his number on it last year before he got hurt!) would be out of the picture and maybe even out of the teams future plans, I would have thought you were crazy!!
by ZZZZMD on Dec 6, 2009 1:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i for sure though Osi would be a staple in there for years just like Stray was
by GintzFan4life on Dec 6, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
SB Predictions?
Saints/Viks NFC – Chargers/Colts AFC
The Homer pick
says Vikings vs. Giants, Colts vs Steelers.
..Manning Bowl. Little bro wins, spoils another ‘perfect’ season.
Other than that…Sub in the Eagles for the Giants.
COlts vs. Eagles in the Bowl, Peyton Wins….tho they aren’t 19-0.
…either way, a Manning wins the Bowl.
"It ain't over till its over"---
and yes..
I just punished myself by choping off my pinkie by predicting the Eagles in the Super Bowl.
And I’m going to the hospital before I go into shock.
Hopefully they give me enough painkillers to watch the Giants game.
"It ain't over till its over"---
The Eagles? Bold pick, I did say the Colts..but I’d love to see the Gmen in there, I just don’t like their chances, I am a loyal fan and I have faith that they will make the playoffs, but they are playing sooo week lately that unless players really step up and turn things around, I dont see it happnin. They are headed in the wrong direction, especially the D
by GintzFan4life on Dec 6, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
oh...
tho I meant none of the above as in your matchups are not going to happen.
Those are all the ‘hot teams’ rigth now.
…but as we’ve seen, that doesn’t really matter in January.
More than one of the top 4 teams going into the playoffs are not making the SB.
Its a reason why playing great before NOW, isn’t all its cracked up to be.
Play good starting NOW….your chances may be better (provided of course…you didn’t shoot yourselves in the foot like the Titans did in the first 6).
"It ain't over till its over"---
I agree..playing great in weeks 10-17 is key, more important than the first 10 weeks. having that momentum going into the playoffs is money. the gmen could win out and go all the way, stranger stuff has happened..i mean, who thought the Cards would be there last year, and almost win
by GintzFan4life on Dec 6, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
I do think the Saints will lose a game b4 the Colts do..today for instance against the Skins
by GintzFan4life on Dec 6, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
If the giants don't make it
I’m predicting a Vikes/Colts superbowl
The “Iron Man” bowl, since Favre and Peyton are #1 and 2 on the current consecutive games list.
Personally, I think the vikings have the most complete team out of any, but I’d take peyton.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
is Bradshaw out?
or is he a game time decision?
Beet the Cowgirls!
I don’t see them going to a 3-4 either, it will take a lot of work and your right, a lot of new guys used to that D as well as the D Cord.
We need to get back to smash mouth football..Eli has to step up as the Offensive Capt and take control out there, stop looking like someone just beet him up and took his lunch money. I hate when he shrugs…since Pierce is out, we need a player to step up and take control like a LB or S, but since we’ve sucked on D this year, i just don’t know who..maybe Kiwi since he’s a starter now, I’d like it to be Tuck though..
I think we can beet them today, not a blow out, but in a convincing fashion. by at least 10. We can still finish 10-6
You know it is coincidental that I was thinking..
While watching that game that given the changes (I am sure there were probably some coach talk to go with them)..I saw the rest of them step it up 10-fold..The message was clearly sent out.
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