Ernie P. is in the house

by Ed Valentine on Dec 4, 2009 10:00 AM EST in News Comment 44 comments

Lots to talk about with Ernie Palladino this week. Our common set of questions this time around deal with Eli Manning, Antonio Pierce's successor and the New York Giants' playoff chances.

As usual, Ernie's answers are below. Mine can be found over at Ernie's Giants Beat.

1. Eli Manning said the Giants have had a few team meetings in recent weeks. Do you think these things are overrated?

Ernie's Answer: Judging by the results they've had lately, yeah, hugely. But I'm really being more sarcastic than serious there. Seriously, uh, yeah, I still think they're overrated. It's funny that you only hear about these things when a team wins. Somehow, a team leader gets up there and reminds his guys that, "Hey, we've lost 11 of the last 12, and that's kind of sucky," and his guys get all charged up and go out and kill somebody. I think, in the long run, they're okay to have. But the value just isn't there unless it shows up on the field, immediately. If I was a Giants player right now, I'd rely less on Justin Tuck or Eli or anybody else orating in the middle of the room and more on my own study habits and work ethic. So, yeah, I think they're overrated.

2. Now that Antonio Pierce is on the IR, do you think his Giants career is done, and who will man the MLB spot next season?

Ernie's Answer: Boy. Tough question. In my heart, I'd love to see Chase Blackburn there. He's a tough, gritty kid who'll do just about anything for playing time. No dummy, either. But he's not what you'd call a dynamic player. Since we won't know anything about Jonathan Goff until he makes his first start Sunday, we have to eliminate him for now. So my head is telling me that next year's starting middle linebacker isn't on the team yet. It won't be a rookie -- the way Jerry Reese drafts linebackers, that'd be a hell of a reach -- but there surely will be somebody on the free agent market able to play the middle. Unless the NFL comes to an agreement with the players association on a new contract, 2010 will be an uncapped year. So the Giants had better put aside a lot of money if a quality guy comes loose, because he'll probably be the starter in the middle.

3. Do you believe Manning when he says the newly-discovered "stress reaction" in his right foot is not bothering him, and why?

Ernie's Answer: Yes, I do. Oh, I'm sure there's some pain there and all. But look at it this way. They discovered this thing around the week of the bye. He's practiced through it, and he's played through it. More than that, he played San Diego and Atlanta with it, and executed the offense in two very different manners. Against San Diego, he was able to step into his short throws and put them on a line to his receivers. Against Atlanta, he got off a bunch of big passes without apparently favoring the foot. And in both cases, he either moved in the pocket to buy time or outright scrambled away from pressure. He didn't look like a hurting quarterback to me. Let's just not talk about Denver, where he was given little chance to do anything. It hurt just watching that game, let alone playing in it. But that goes for everybody on that team. I'm just not convinced that his foot is so bad that he can't operate.

4. We'll ask the question again. Can this team make the playoffs?

Ernie's Answer: Yes. But that's not saying they will. They have to pull themselves together first, and I'm not sure that can happen with their current injury situation. The defensive and offensive lines have to find whatever they've lacked the last six games, and they need a middle defense. But if they can find that, and beat Dallas and Philadelphia to get to 8-5, then anything is possible. I say that because neither Dallas, Philly, or any of the wildcard candidates have convinced me they're going to run away and hide from anybody. You think Dallas isn't capable of going into a slide? Philadelphia, who lost to Oakland earlier this year? Certainly Green Bay can take a few losses. And the Giants already have a tiebreaker advantage over Atlanta. So, sure, it can happen. But the Giants need to fix up their own house first, and at this point that's kind of like turning an outhouse into a mansion. Not an easy job.

(E-mail Ed at bigblueview@gmail.com)

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It's good to know

Someone’s optimistic on this site other than me. I think this team is good enough to make it to the playoffs, but we’ve been crippled on both sides of the ball. If we don’t win, it’s time to get younger and go back to the drawing board.

"The Dallas Cowboys might be America's Team, but the New York Giants are America's DREAM team." -- Robert Tisch

by xMattex on Dec 4, 2009 10:07 AM EST reply actions

MLB

I keep forgetting about the possibility of uncapped year. The problem with that logic though is that there could be some serious bidding wars in an uncapped year and the Giants don’t typically shell out the biggest FA contracts. Canty would be an exception, but that hasn’t really panned out yet has it? It’ll be interesting how it plays out anyway.

At any rate, the Giants now have the luxury of trying out Goff for the lead role, so I don’t think we need to eliminate him. We’re going to find out if he has the potential.

by potroast on Dec 4, 2009 10:27 AM EST reply actions

The other thing about the uncapped year

is the FA pool will be drastacly diminished a lot because their is a clause in the current CBA that states if 2010 is an uncapped year then you will need 6 not 4 years to reach free agencey so a lot of the MLB FA’s would not be available.

Another wierd thing about an uncapped year is that the top 8 teams in the league are not allowed to sign a FA unless they loose one and then they could sign a FA but it has to be for the same amount of money that they lost from FA that left. Also teams would get 2 franchise tags instead of one and with an uncapped year more teams would probabbly use it thus further diminishing the available FA pool.

The bidding war concept is interesting because the four of the five most profitable teams are all four NFC East teams (go figure) so they each would have the most money to spend. I agree with Potroast I don’t think the Giants will be very agressive even without a Cap they never are other than last year with Canty and in 05 they signed Plax, Pierce, and McKenzie but even then they only got Plax becasue nobody wanted to pay him what his initial asking price was so the Giants got him cheaper. The Giants run the franchise like an old mop and pop shop and unless we draft unbelievable next year I think our 3 divsion rivals will be benefit more than us from and uncapped NFL which would suck.

by Landeta on Dec 4, 2009 11:29 AM EST up reply actions

I'm not sure how others feel

I’m glad the Giants aren’t big spenders on FA. Yeah it was exciting when the Giants spent all that money on Boley, Canty, Bernard and errrr……… CC. In football it seems once these players get their big contract they lose much of their incentive and drive. How many FA signings in the NFL really pan out?

by FrankB0318 on Dec 4, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions

Big signings?

No they are usually a recipe for disaster. I’m not sure why anyone spends big bucks on FA anymore.

The smartest thing is to sign guys like Shaun O’Hara, Fred Robbins, Antonio Pierce, Kawika Mitchel. Low Budget, veteran ‘parts’.

If Canty (and Bernard for that matter…) don’t have some little opt out thing in their contract where the Giants can weasel out of them and cut them…they could hurt them for a while.

Of course…Canty may end up earning it (..not sure if Bernard does tho…he’s already failed IMO).

"It ain't over till its over"---

by FreeBradshaw on Dec 4, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions

Free Agencey seems to be just as much of a crapshoot as the draft

The Giants struck gold in 05 with Plax, AP, McKenzie all big parts of that season and all the way till now.

They also bombed this year, though next year will be more telling, Boley who has been ok when healthy and Canty can make it look a lot better with big years next year. Hopefully JR has a contract for Canty and Bernard similar to what he had for Lavar Arington in 06 that more or less stated if you don’t perform for whatever reason, . .. injury etc, we can cut you. I doubt they have that for Canty after year one maybe year 3 or 4, Bernard is just a mutt with flees.

NE has had some success signing older Free Agents. They cut Lawyer Milloy and sign Rodney Harrison for cheaper. They sign Corey Dillan who gave them a great year in 04. Wess Welker was an unbelievable FA signing though I think they got him for cheap. Mike Vrabel was also a cheap FA signing from Pitt that worked out very well. Seems as if McDaniels took the same approach in signing B. Dawkins this offseason and it’s paid off.

Steelers never sign FA’s and they always seem to be successfull but if you notice they always have a one or even two year lull when they are breaking in new players to replace veterns like in 06 and 07 they started playing guys like Woodley and Harrison and Holmes to replace Porter and Randel el. Even in 08 the o-line sturggled becasue they did not sign some of there older veterans that became FA’s over the years. They draft better than anyone else in the league and have for about 20 years now.

by Landeta on Dec 4, 2009 3:36 PM EST up reply actions

Yup.

its pretty much all about the draft, and undrafted FA…cuz you gotta include the Colts in there. Peyton Manning is one thing, but that team finds talent like no other.

I think the Giants are on the right path with that, tho they still aren’t as good.

Much of it is luck, cuz guys like Kehl, Goff, Alford, Andre Brown..hell, even Sinorice Moss, Adam Koets, Guy Whimper…maybe these guys would be starters if they weren’t injured early on.

It just seems like those sorts of picks, for the Steelers and Colts…are stars or playing big roles by the time there are where they are now in their careers.

i.e…maybe the Giants should’ve cut bait with the likes of McKenzie and Seubert and worked in Whimper and Koets (…tho it would be easier if they weren’t on IR all the time…luck again).

Those teams would never sign Canty, Bernard or Boley. Kehl would be starting, Maurice Evans, the UDFA we all liked in camp, would be playing at DT right now and all a that sort of thing.

But that’s the way those teams work and this is the way the GIants work. Until now, its hard to argue with the way they’ve delved into FA tho.

"It ain't over till its over"---

by FreeBradshaw on Dec 4, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions

Interesting stuff Landeta

by potroast on Dec 4, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions

By the looks of it then

An uncapped season may not be so great? Assuming the FA’s that are scheduled to be under a capped year vs. an uncapped year, the FA pool is going to be diluted. Think for a moment how lengths of contracts are structured based on where they were drafted?

Typically your first and second rounders get the longer deals, but depending on the position, rarely are six years involved. With saying that, even some of the middle-late round players that have made a name for themselves, will not be elgible, because they haven’t been in the league that long!

This sounds like a good loop-hole or strategy to protect the integrity of the game? Players get paid for what they have done, or are expected to do (sorta lol), not because the market is diluted and you try to dictate any leverage. My point being, if the season is uncapped and a lot of these guys are pulled back, are teams really going to sign someone who ranks considerably less than a top guy, but will be paid like it?! If that’s the case, veteran holdouts?

by Hootman on Dec 4, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions

Exactly Hoot

It seems silly that the players that are would be FA would not benefit from an uncapped season and most available FA’s would be older so it would seem risky to sign a 30+ year old guy to a long term contract. Peter King has written about this several times and he’s stated if the players actually knew what un-capped meant a new CBA would get down a lot quicker. Another bad aspect of an un-capped season and I’m not sure about this aspect of an un-capped season so don’t take this to the bank but I think I read too is that with an un-capped season teams will no longer have a floor on salaries meaning if a team want’s to be cheap like in Baseball they can carry a payroll of 15 million if they want too so that would kill the Bills, Jaguars, Vikings and other small market teams that have trouble selling out and making money. I might have this last fact mixed up but I’m pretty sure I read it.

by Landeta on Dec 4, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions

No minimum payroll

you’re correct on that.

an uncapped year is going to suck

Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.

by Willgfass on Dec 4, 2009 10:58 PM EST up reply actions

God help if it stays uncapped

(cont)

Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.

by Willgfass on Dec 4, 2009 10:59 PM EST up reply actions

Your right about the payroll

I did some more research, and there is no minimum payroll. I would find it hard to believe that even the cheap teams would cut payroll though. If their product is poor now, while losing money, just imagine what it would be like if you start making cost saving cuts? Yikes!!! IMO, it would seem like your sabotaging your team for the future, and if or when a new deal is reached, and the cap is reinstated, what kind of foundation would be left to build on?

Another tidbit i found, any player elgible for FA in an uncapped year, their 2010 salary cannot exceed no more than 30% of their 2009 salary.

by Hootman on Dec 5, 2009 9:52 AM EST up reply actions

Goff could make everyones job easier

If he takes this opportunity and only the sky is the limit. Then there would be no need for FA’s and speculation of premium selections in the draft.

by Hootman on Dec 4, 2009 10:27 AM EST reply actions

I'm excited about Goff too

but am I the only one who thinks it’s a bit too optimistic to be touting him as our potential franchise MLB of the future? I mean until this week he’s been a good special teams player who has done basically nothing with the 1st team D…kind of like Chase last year. I know Goff is more athletic, and it would be great if he took his first chance as a starter and ran with it, but I would be SHOCKED if in the next 5 games he silenced the debate over whether we need to draft//sign/trade for a new MLB. But it certainly would be nice.

by SonictheHedgecock on Dec 4, 2009 11:01 AM EST reply actions

I agree Sonic

He might struggle the rest of the wayt but still become a hell of a LB in the future. I have no doubt we go into the offseason with LB as one of our holes to fill along with, OLine, DT, Saftey and RB. Wow thats sobering.

by Landeta on Dec 4, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions

Really?

The Giants drafted Goff essentially to be the heir apparent to the MLB position.

I would’ve think he would have gotten some playing time last year in the same manner as this game today, meaning later in the season, but he was injured all of last year.

No one’s expecting him to be a star, just be solid. That’s what Antonio Pierce was when he was at his best with the Giants, just a solid MLB who made plays when needed.

We don’t need Urlacher or Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis….we need London Fletcher (Baker…)

"It ain't over till its over"---

by FreeBradshaw on Dec 4, 2009 11:32 AM EST up reply actions

good point Free

were not looking for Harry Carson here I just think Giant fans have been starved of a great LB for a while so we all want Goff to be it. I have some doubts about a 5th round pick from Vany but JR seems to have a good eye for talent and the Giants have a history of good late round picks so well see. I just hope the fans and coaching staff realize it takes some time and for me the most important thing is how Goff improves over the next 5 weeks.

by Landeta on Dec 4, 2009 11:35 AM EST up reply actions

The Giants

are big on intelligence and aptitude. That’s why they are comfortable saying that a 5th rounder is the heir apparent. The guy is athletic and that’s a big part of being the MLB but there’s a lot more mental skill needed and I’m sure that’s what they really saw in him. The opportunity to mold him into the next guy. They are fortunate to have had two great MLB minds teaching him the whole game up to now, one on the field and one on the bench.

by Jaybat on Dec 4, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions

lets hope it works out with Goff

I heard a lot of the same stuff with Wilkonson, ie charecter and smarts he’s been a no-show for 3 years. But your point is taken especailly in the later rounds nobody’s talent level is as high (if not they would be in the first or second round) as it is in the first round so what would ultimetly seperate one 5th rounder from another is probabbly intelligence and aptititude.

by Landeta on Dec 4, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions

the biggest thing is injury.

Gerris Wilkenson had all the talent of a 1st to 2nd round pick…but was always injured.

Goff the same thing. He was right behind Jerrod Mayo, Dan Connor and Curtis Lofton for best MLB in the draft.

He has the athleticism to go with his Vanderbilt smarts.

…its simply injury. He would’ve been on the field last year if he wasn’t on IR.

So like much of what’s gone wrong with the Giants season…bad luck is a big part of it.

"It ain't over till its over"---

by FreeBradshaw on Dec 4, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions

at some point we gotta ask

why is he always injured or does he not have what it takes to play in the NFL? He’s either a pussy or has the worst luck. Gerris was/is always hurt. When he got the chance to play in 07 he played well.

by FrankB0318 on Dec 4, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions

Gerris is gone.

I can say that with assurance more than Antonio Pierce being gone.

Gerris had the talent, but there’s a large list of talented players that never were good cuz of numerous injuries.

Its a shame, cuz I think Wilkenson had the potential to be as good as Boley.

Its time to move on from him.

Goff is a different story, cuz this is only his second year. Essentially, you can say the Giants drafted a MLB this year with Goff cuz he missed all of last year.

"It ain't over till its over"---

by FreeBradshaw on Dec 4, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions

Geris reminded me of Reggie Torbor only worse

by Late for Dinner on Dec 4, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions

I would love to get a Fletcher-Baker type, who's wayyy underrated in my opinion.

I just think, as Landeta pointed out, that it’s unlikely Goff will step in and play to that level immediately, so with only 5 games (against some tough teams, Vikes probably fighting for home-field) and maybe playoffs we will probably go into to the offseason wondering if we need to pick somebody up at MLB. If for no other reason than that Goff’s inexperience is almost certainly going to lead to some embarrassing mistakes. Especially since our D-line is not giving the backers much help right now. But I do have hope that next year he could become the reliable, serviceble LB we need.

by SonictheHedgecock on Dec 4, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions

Osi

I know OSI is having some issues…But remeber he was out all last season. They should not punish him by removing him. He still is a TOP DE in the NFL. He is frustrated with Bill Sheridan.

by ajm135 on Dec 4, 2009 12:00 PM EST reply actions

TOP DE in the NFL?

There’s easily 10-12 DE better than Osi. They “shouldn’t punish him”? How long should a team stick with a struggling player? At some point a team needs to pull the plug on a player and try another player. Best case scenario it motivates Osi. Worst case scenario he sulks.

by FrankB0318 on Dec 4, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions

This should motivate him

I didn’t make county band for the first time in 5 years of trying out. I’m not going to mope, I’m going to use this as inspiration to make region band.

Osi gets paid millions more than me, so I hope he has the same reaction.

Show us why you made the probowl Osi!

Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.

by Willgfass on Dec 4, 2009 11:01 PM EST up reply actions

Licking my chops...

at an uncapped FA in 2010. There are a couple MLBs that could be available. One of which is Ruud, MLB for the Bucs. Being both a Giants and Huskers fan, I would love to have this guy. I have not followed too closely since the season started, but at the beginning of the year, he was having contract disput with the Bucs and could be a FA. This guy has a motor that won’t quit and a huge football pedigree.

by CCE718 on Dec 4, 2009 12:15 PM EST reply actions

If 2010 is uncapped

Rudd will not be a FA becasue and uncapped season means 6 years to Free Agencey and not 4 so Rudd would still stay on Tampa. Also Tampa has the most room in the league under the cap and they did this on purpouse to sign young talented guys like Rudd to long term deals. Cap or no cap don’t plan on Rudd being with the Giants in 2010.

by Landeta on Dec 4, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions

To all my fellow Giants fans..

Before I continue to add my comments I guess I must first offer an apology..I just received a warning, which means some of my remarks may have offended folks on this site. If in fact if that is true please accept my apology..I was also accused of offending folks on the Dallas site…Quite frankly, I have never offended anyone on either site, in fact if you look at what I post you’ll note that people appreciate what I say..Particularly when I am visiting another fan site. I do tend to not tolerate some of what I hear getting reported by our coaches and media concerning our team and may very well be a bit harsh..but I in no way mean to insult or belittle my fellow fans or any other fans for that matter..So, I apologize to anyone who took any of my rather silly humor that I attempt to inject into some of my commentary to be in any way offensive. I have never said anything derogatory to any of my fellow fans..or other teams fans, although I do find it a little fun playing around with Trolls…Anyway, let me reiterate here..If I have offended anyone I truly apologize..Bob

by Bobbiblue on Dec 4, 2009 12:26 PM EST reply actions

I enjoy

reading your posts Bob, so don’t change your style.

by Jolly on Dec 4, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions

I dunno who you offended...

it was probably no one, just a cuss word or two.

Gotta keep it PG apparently. Don’t want the seeds actin up.

"It ain't over till its over"---

by FreeBradshaw on Dec 4, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions

heya Bob

as someone who has been warned and expelled in the past, let me offer my kind advice. You and I’and some other people, we’re sort of humorous and combative and oh, I don’t know, let’s say zany. That can be a potent combination when it comes to this type of forum, because what we might perceive to be good-natured teasing, or simply standing up for one’s team or a point, can be misconstrued. Trollers are a trap for the brute squad like you and me, and it’s best to either say nothing or either be so remarkably bland and civil that nobody can point to anything you say. This is a great site and it absolutely sucks to not participate. I have no doubt that you will be careful to not be banned. We’ll appreciate it, because we dig what you have to say.
Sometimes I have a “wow” sort of laugh at the things you say, but I have a very high tolerance and you probably do too. Just remember that not everyone is as cool as us!

You play to win the game!

by Simms-McConkey on Dec 4, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions

I just wanted to say

Like SM indicated to, some people have no penchant for humor. But in reality, i have not seen anything remotely close to being offensive, especially against another BBV’er? Something from the outside decided it was neccessary, though in spite, to carry out such a complaint. It’s sad but true, but the moderators have to follow thru under their guidelines!

Though my humor and expletives are rather broad (in reality), i tend to keep it close to the vest here or anywhere. I generally skip over the troll-like attempts and move on. But like SM said too, it’s the “wow”, not from you personally, but from anyone that makes a statement that i would like to make, or add to it. I just laugh at it!

by Hootman on Dec 4, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions

I enjoy reading Bobbie's post too

I don’t know what happend but everything I have read from you has been above board, maybe their still mad cause you said Kevin Boss can’t catch LOL.

by Late for Dinner on Dec 4, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions

Bobbi I love your posts

keep em comming

by Landeta on Dec 4, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions

I've yet

read a post that I found offensive.

by FrankB0318 on Dec 4, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions

Keep the posts comin Bobbi

I guess you can’t please all the people all the time. I have never found anything you post offensive, if anything, you’re probably the friendliest poster on this site. Don’t let this get you down and keep up the good work.

by njgiant on Dec 5, 2009 10:01 AM EST up reply actions

Personally, I've never been offended by anything you've said Bobbi.

Startled, amazed, amused, yes but never offended. You’ve been tough on trolls (defined as obnoxious fans from other site with chips on their shoulders), maybe a over the top time or two with them (you’re a fiery guy), but only when responding in kind to provocation.

by blue gonz on Dec 4, 2009 2:19 PM EST reply actions

I appreciate all my favorite guys support...

I will make every effort to try to tone it down some..So what I say doesn’t get mis-construed..but don’t count on it…Hey I am what I am…You all are a great bunch of guys..and again Thanks..Wouldn’t it be nice for all of us to be in the stands together?.

by Bobbiblue on Dec 4, 2009 3:49 PM EST reply actions

I'd have a cold one with ya any day Bobbi!

by Late for Dinner on Dec 4, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions

I was going to say something else..

But I already have one strike against me..lol

by Bobbiblue on Dec 4, 2009 3:50 PM EST reply actions

uhh...

We kinda picked up a guy this season i’m not sure you’ve heard of but his name is Michael Boley and he has been a machine both in atlanta and this seasdon that he is playing for the giants. i believe he was a middle linebacker there to and he could greatly help the team once he gets to understanding the defensive scheme better.

by Greyfox on Dec 4, 2009 3:56 PM EST reply actions