A Time to Ponder
by David Jacks on Dec 28, 2009 1:31 PM EST
in New York Giants News
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PrintAfter an embarrassing loss in their final game at the Meadowlands the Giants leave me pondering these 10 questions.
1) How does Bill Sheridan keep his job? If Sheridan were a 10-year vet I would say he is in trouble. As a rookie coordinator I'm surprised he hasn't fired himself. Which would go something like this.
Bill 1 - Job was pretty simple, just had to run Spags's defense and pawn it off as your own.
Bill 2 - I like watching Canty in coverage, he's big and funny.
Bill 1 - I think allowing four opponents to score 40 or more points is gonna make some people pretty mad, don't ya think?
Bill 2 - Maybe. What about my new "amoeba" defense, that was cool right?
Bill 1 - I'm pretty sure that was code for prevent defense.
Bill 2 - Ha, it sure was. Can I go back to Uncle Steve in St Louis and be the linebackers coach again?
Bill 1 - Sure thing, kiddo.
Bill 2 - Yaaaayyy!!
2) Are the Giant defenders actually this bad? It's pretty rare that two Pro Bowl lineman in the peaks of their careers go from studs to duds this fast. Before you go blaming Osi for rushing up field and abandoning the run ask yourself this. How good did the Giants run defense look this past Sunday with Kiwi at end? The guy was coming off major knee surgery and still led the Giants in sacks with a paltry 7. I'm giving Tuck a pass for playing with one arm. Terrell Thomas, in his second year, had 5 picks, but was out run by Mushin Muhammed who played with a walker (ha, jokes). My point is sometimes coaches simply don't put their players in the right positions to make plays, and to me there is far too much talent on this team to have played so poorly.
3) What happened to Earth, Wind and Fire? Pretty simple really. Wind left via free agency, Earth turned out to be clay (just punched my own face for this corny analogy) and Fire did his best on two badly injured ankles. I love Brandon Jacobs, who I affectionately refer to as the baby Rhinoceros, but 3.7 a carry is not going to cut it. I have a sneaking suspicion that we will soon be hearing about off-season knee surgery for Brandon, who never passed the eyeball test this year. Yes, he ran over some linebackers, but at 8'2'' 650 pounds that's going to happen. Still he never seemed to hit the hole with the same fervor he did last year.
And now for the myth factor, does Brandon Jacobs pounding a defense really soften teams up for Bradshaw or is Bradshaw just that good? Tune into to Discovery Channel's Myth Busters on Thursday to find out. I think what was effective is Brandon running like a Bull at 4+ a carry; then having the faster, cut back runner, like Ahmad Bradshaw come in to wipe out a defense that had seen a downfield runner for two quarters. I'm not saying Jacobs' pounding isn't a factor (we'll find out Thursday as those clever little men rig up some wacky experiment to prove their points) but AB seemed to do just fine without any "softening" this year. The Giants had high hopes for Andre Brown who they lost to season ending surgery in the pre-season, but the question is, how will he recover after rupturing his Achilles?
4) What is a safety and do the Giants have one? This is a conversation I had with a member of the Jets organization after Kenny Phillips went down with season ending micro-fracture surgery on his left knee.
Me - Oh dear God, C.C. Brown is our new safety.
Jet Guy - You'd be better off playing 10 guys.
Me - That can't be true.
Jet Guy - I scouted him, trust me you'll be better off with 10. Any chance you can re-claim Will Demps?
Me - I hate you.
I hated him even more after Brown explained why he gave up a 54-yard TD pass to DeSean Jackson (who will haunt us for the next decade) "I played my own coverage." I then got a text from Jet Guy that said "no doubt this statement has forced you to light your eyeballs on fire. Told ya so."
So where do the Giants go from here? Phillips is a 23-year-old safety with Patella Femoral Arthritis. Brown likes to play his own coverage. Aaron Rouse can hit but doesn't run well. Michael Johnson remains overly aggressive and Aaron Ross will probably slide back over to corner next year. Atari Bigby and Roman Harper are free agents, but General Manager Jerry Reese has proven the draft is where you win and lose in the NFL. That said Harper was coveted by the Gmen in 08' and was rumored to be a part of the Jeremy Shockey deal at one point. Whatever happens, it's clear playing with 2 safeties is a must in this era.
5) What is the future at Middle Linebacker? At this point the candidates are Antonio Pierce, an emotional leader with a keen sense of the game and old legs or Jonathan Goff a second year pro with raw talent and little experience. As much as I love AP and all he did for the Giants (including one of the greatest heart plays I've ever seen, getting through two blocker on a screen in Green Bay) I have to think his run in NY is over. What we fans can't see is how much leadership, football knowledge and energy AP brought to that defense. I wonder how much they missed that leadership this past Sunday (although 247 rushing yards is not stopped by one man). Goff has shown some raw talent with an interception and a sack in his first two games as a stater, but his lack of experience led Michael Boley to make many of the calls pre snap. Goff will get one last game to prove his worth before Jerry has to make a decision.
6) What happened to this year's free agents? Let's face it, this group fell flat on their faces. Rocky Bernard seldom played and when he did he had trouble tying up two offensive linemen (shocking for a man who looks like he ate another man) and even found himself a healthy scratch for one game. Chris Canty sat out the majority of the year with calf issues and when he did play he was rarely a factor. Michael Boley may be the fastest Giants linebacker since Wesley Mallard (don't judge me, I loved Mallard) but he also struggled with injuries and missed almost half the year. Thank God NFL contracts are not guaranteed because this unit may not be around much longer, although I think Canty and Boley will get a chance to prove their worth again next year. Boley was a factor when he played.
7) Do you really believe the whole emotion thing? For years fans and analysts have claimed that losing teams look "flat" or played without "heart" and for years I have been refuting this point. Sunday Michael Strahan said the Giants looked flat and came out with no emotion. I rolled back the tape (OK I hit rewind on my DVR) and watched as Justin Tuck and Canty sacked Matt Moore and showed a ton of emotion. Then they got smacked in the mouth over and over again by a run game the Giants had no answer for. I saw huge holes and missed tackles, but I didn't see lack of emotion. It was only 3 years ago that fans/analysts said Eli Manning didn't have enough emotion to be a true leader. Did we learn nothing from the Super Bowl win? Have we learned nothing from Roger Federer or Tom Glavine or even our own Eli? Sometimes you lose despite being pumped for the game. I'll take a talented, even-keeled player over an emotional nut-case anytime, or just give me 53 LT'S (does that totally disprove my point? Get on this Myth Busters).
8) Is Beatty ready? Well no, and that was clear Sunday. But after another full training camp under his belt and a little more weight on his frame this could spell the end for Kareem McKenzie. If the Giants did cut McKenzie they would be saving 5 million and change, but it may not matter in what could be an uncapped year. The good news is Beatty looks like he will be ready sooner then most of us expected.
9) While the Giants were down 31-3 in the third quarter this debate broke out at the bar. Do you face forward or backwards in the shower, and what's wrong with you if you are facing forward? I know it's completely irrelevant and it's not helping you get over the embarrassment of Sunday's debacle, but seriously why are people facing front? I am not happy about this. I feel like Jerry Seinfeld explaining to Kramer how to shower.
10) Is it time for a special overhaul? Let's face it, old man Jeff Feagles finally lived up to his name this year and it's time to cut ties with the 73-year-old punter. He is an outstanding directional punter (one of the best ever) but the kicks got lower and lower this year and often they didn't find the sidelines. Meanwhile the only fun thing about Lawrence Tynes is figuring out how to put his name in NY Post headlines "In the Nick of Tynes," "Right on Tynes," "It's about Tynes to get rid of Lawrence." There might be two new kickers in camp next year.
Feel free to answer all 10 questions yourself and throw in some more why don't ya, but before you go cutting Osi and Jacobs remember Monday's are when we over-react. In the off-season are you still going to feel this strongly? Fire Sheridan, cut Rocky, blame CC but think twice before you release our core. That said, what do I know? I'm just a silly writer.
[* Writers note - My girlfriend implored me to never use the word silly again. I did not honor her wishes.]
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Few things I'm pondering....
1) How we paid Eli so much money but we could’ve maybe cut into his fatty check to keep D. Ward and the unit solid again for this year? Clearly this was a 3-headed RB monster team that mightve needed Ward more than we thought.
2) How the absence of Plaxico Burress has shown us that we haven’t fully recovered from the shooting nightmare hangover #17 decided to pour onto us Giant fans.
3) John Fox – D coordinator for GMEN? I would have to write another letter to Santa before he retires again for the year for that to happen.
4) AP is defintely the leader of that defense. His injury has had a huge impact. I think next year he’s back to business.
5) Tom Coughlin definitely has to stay. An 8-8 team at worst, how can you fire a superbowl winning coach a few years before at 8-8.
6) New York Giants are bad, but not sh*t bad. So in a hopeful offseason we have the players. We need the link. That link could be in the form of a player, a defensive coordinator, or just maybe Eli Manning.
plax
plax is just an after thought, this WR group is very talented and Eli is having his best statistical year to date (sans plax). Next year has the very high potential to be easily the greatest WR corp ever to don the blue jersey, and quite possibly the best in the league next year (depending on if boldin leaves ARZ). Keeping Ward would not have mattered, its more of a jacobs pussy footing and O line under performing….and just a note to the coaches…sunday against the vikes…please please please activate barden and just constantly throw to him…it always works in madden when i do it! granted i jucied up his ability
by LT's Will Power on Dec 28, 2009 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
No Fox
Unfortunately for Giants fans ESPN is reporting that Jon Fox and his staff are safe another year.
1) Eli’s contract is the nature of having a franchise qb in New York, nothing else. If you think your guy is a franchise player at that spot, in this town, you have to pay him. D ward was great last year but i think the majority of fans thought jacobs was the right back to keep. Hindsights a helluva thing.
2) Hakeem Nicks is gonna be a beast and Steve Smith has proven he can be a number one.
Coughlin will not be on any hot seats unless they disappoint again next year, but as you said he is 2 years removed from a Superbowl and had brought the giants to 4 straight playoff appearances.
Ap is a great leader but at some point you have to let go of aging vets.
6) Agreed, there is a good core here, no need to blow things up entirely.
first order of business....
run sheridan outta town….season is over. If you want to wait for it to “officially” be over than that’s fine…but get this man outta town ASAP.
Prevent defense loving son of a you know what…
in regards to safeties…i know the giants don’t want a traditional “strong” and “free” who can play both. Boy was this a mistake. The cover 2 essentially makes both players Free Safeties. Last time i checked CC Brown and Aaron Rouse were not cover guys yet we ask them to be?!?! I think that the answer is eliminating this cover to and getting a pure SS and a pure FS.
M. Johnson IMO is nothing more than a Nickel or Dime corner. I would make him KP’s back up and i would not play him so close to the line of scrimmage….unless Sheridan actually likes seeing MJ rolling on the ground in pain clutching his shoulder???
with that being said, let’s get a real SS in here. I thought Rouse could play that role but I’m not sold on him. Let’s go out and get a stud. Bring Rouse back as a backup SS.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
i just re read what I wrote....
i’m an idiot….
i know the giants don’t want a traditional "strong" and "free" who can play both. = I know the giants don’t want a traditional “strong” and “free” but safeties that can play both positions
cover to = cover 2
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
Why is nobody talking about the Draft
Let’s say it – it was awful and Reese really didn’t do a good job. The GM has to be included in this conversation as the coaches have to work with the talent available.
Nicks – A
Sintim – Who knows – HE DIDN’T GET A CHANCE TO PLAY!!
Barden – see above – DAMN!
Beckum – Nothing great but once again – see above
Brown – hurt in camp
Bomar – not sure if this guy can read a defense
Wright – who? the guy played at UNM – nuff said.
Woodson – i think the guy played great in preseason and couldn’t have been worse then what we picked up.
Let’s all agree. The draft was a D at best.
Reese – it was a down year and some of these guys could turn it around but we got to draft guys that can play right away just like ‘07 and ’08. Trade up and get an impact DT so the LB’s aren’t trying to get them out of their lap. NO WR’S needed!
Draft
It is much to early to judge this draft as ‘awful.’ You can clearly see that the bottom half gave the Giants nothing, though Bomar may end up as the backup QB.
Sintim, Beckum, Barden and Brown may all be solid players for the Giants. It’s safe to say Nicks and Beatty will definitely be. Did they get as much help this year as they would have liked? No.
But, way too early to judge it as a flop.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 28, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
Draft
I agree that we can’t judge it as a flop yet but if these guys don’t get a chance to play then it’s hard to evaluate them. I know some guys might not practice well so you have to give them some chances on the playing field.
I would really like to see Barden, Simtim and Beckum start and play 80% of the game next week. You have to go into the preseason with an idea of what these guys can do.
So, for now – the draft is below average but time will tell.
Young guys
I hear your frustration. The only one I really wish we had seen was Barden.
Sintim I was disappointed in this year. He showed so much in pre-season I thought he would make a real impact.
First he got hurt. Then Sintim admitted when AP got hurt that he was completely lost on defense. He had no idea where to line up, or what was expected of him on various plays. You can’t play the guy if he can’t even learn where to line up.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 28, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
You know the problem with Sintim could be
he played OLB in a 3-4 in college and probabbly had trouble adusting. The raw talent is there especailly the pass rush ability be he might be a long term project. His position in college is more of a D-End than LB position. We’ll see with him
Barden
I was really exited about Barden playing this year. Barden was tall and really talented.He was a top draft pick and had a lot of potential.
my verdict of this season
i really think injuries chipped away at the giants this year…
by EarthWindFire on Dec 29, 2009 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
takes 3 yrs to eval a draft
but I would say the top half of the 2009 draft was solid to very good. Once Sintim and Beatty play more they will be very strong performers. I still believe in Barden long term – based purely on opinion. Brown has potential.
Beckum – dunno. He is a tweener. If he were fast enough and could play WR he would be a monster for most CBs.
The last three pix bombed but JR has done well at 4-7 in the past so…
I wouldn't put too much weight on the later picks
It’s your premium picks that keeps the fire burning. Look at past teams and their horrible premium picks. These bad picks can set you back years, in finding talent worthy enough of their billing.
Now with your later picks, it’s only a luxury if they pan out, or are a diamond waiting to be polished (like an Armstead). But generally, if they don’t make it, it’s not going to hurt as much as say the early rounders.
Also, don’t forget about UDFA’s. Seubert was one and Bruce Johnson was too. In a perfect world, i would find it unimaginable for all these picks to stick. Every team is different and so isn’t the positional level of competition.
Big Red for Big Blue
Talk about big impact DT, being a Nebraskan, I would love nothing more than to bring Suh to the Giants. Could you imagine? A D-Line of Tuck, Canty, Suh, and Kiwi?!?! Gives me the chills. I know it is about as likely as me winning the lottery, but hey a guy can hope. I agree that DT and LB are very important spots this year and I hope we can address those two positions and safety early. I would grade last years draft a bit higher than D though. I wish I could have seen more of Sintim, because he was an animal in preseason and when he actually got on the field this year. With Moss gone (I think we should also dangle Manningham out there to see if he yields any interest…yes, he may have speed, but the hands and awareness worry me), Barden may be able to see time next year. Nicks was awesome and Beatty played respectable against a two good d-lines.
Draft
I agree – I think that Beatty might be a real steal if he can become a starter. Nicks I think is at that crossroads where he showed some big drops and could go the route of Braylon in year 2 or could possibly be a Andre Johnson in the making.
Manningham is a guy that really got his first year this year and goes back to my complaint on benching guys in the 3rd round. To me he made some rookie mistakes but shows some real maturity early on but he has to earn some trust with Eli quickly and that can be done in offseason workouts.
It can’t get Barden on the field – and so what if we lose? We get to see he rookie talent and get a better draft slot.
I think Kiwi was a sleeper this year and just needs to know where he will play in the future.
I hear you on Nicks but
I think he’s going to be really good. Amani and Plax and TO drop a lot of balls, I’m not saying it’s a non-issue but I’m not overly concerned at this point he’s talented and reminds me of Anquan Boldi from the Cards.
Its a Giants WR history issue.
Hopefully it goes away with the new Stadium.
They all had it. Shockey, Burress, Toomer…loved to drop balls.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 28, 2009 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
Suh's a top 3 pick.
Not getting him.
It would be like winning the lottery…but spending it all on a Ferrari. No chance…and not smart either.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 28, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
we had a boat load of picks...
and didn’t really set up anything for 2010 draft.
that was not one of our best drafts…but the book is still out on Beckum, Barden, Brown.
Sintim is actually worrying me…..maybe it’s just that he’s playing in a 4-3 now, but he hasnt’ been able to displace Clark and that is a bit scary.
it also stinks that we cut some draft picks…and almost didn’t get Bomar on the PS.
kinda blows that we didn’t address Safety either.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
Sintim
As I commented earlier, I knew there would be an adjustment for him since he played 3-4 in college. But, the scary part is that by the end of the season he should understand where to line up and what the play calls are.
He isn’t on the field mostly because he isn’t even sure where to line up. The Giants need this guy next season, and that scares me.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 28, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
Sintim
Well – sometimes you just have to play the guy and maybe he’ll learn by fire as some people aren’t good in the study room. It can’t be any worse than a person that knows what to do and gets outrun in coverage or blocked so easily.
If he really is that stupid then you gotta move him and try to recoup a super low pick.
I think this really goes back to Sheridan being a good schemer but not a good coach. You have to be able to translate to the players and he obviously had a problem with that this year.
If i was TC I would try to grab Jauron or an understudy of Rex Ryan to run the defense as our players are more suited to attack style defense.
Why is he stupid?
That;s a stupid thing to say.
The guy was hurt in preseason. He didn’t get the needed time to start.
Happens with a ton of rookies. He’s in there a lot tho.
Sintim’s a starter next year.
He would’ve possibly been this year if he wasn’t hurt……
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 28, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe
the problem with sheridan is that the advanced level of football knowledge that he’s known for (according to spags anyway) translates into really over-complicated defensive schemes, which in turn cause lapses in communication, general confusion, and a rookie having no chance at seeing the field. Mix that with a flat personality, and you’d get a bunch of football players feeling like they’re unable to play to their strengths and incapable of getting all their homework done. Once they started blaming the teacher the class wasn’t getting passed. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if another dc came in and found a bunch of talent waiting for him.
Sintim worries the hell out of me BUT
so did Mannigham last year, he was so lost he was a healthy scratch a good part of the season then he came along nicely, sure he’s inconsistant but if Sintim can show the flashes that Mannigham has in year two and can contribute at that level I’ll feel a lot better about him.
Agreed
We did have a lot of picks this year and most experts suggested that the 2010 draft would be very strong. I’d have preferred to try and trade 2009 picks for 2010 picks. Even if it is just a 6th round pick for a 5th rounder next year, it would have helped.
Why take a 6th round CB, when they had very little chance to make the team?
by ross_stephen on Dec 28, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
This draft was NOT a D.
Nicks was an A yea…
Why forget about Beatty? He’s a B+, he’s the starting LT for the next 10 years.
Sintim didn’t play…CUZ HE WAS HURT.
Beckum didn’t play…CUZ HE WAS HURT.
Barden? Look…he’s big, but there’s 4 other WR out there. Nicks is one rookie..Why 2 rookies? He’ll be in the mix next year…set that in stone.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 28, 2009 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
My Fault on forgetting Beatty
…but be realistic and Beckum and Sintim were not hurt all year.
I’ve said it many times in that they got to get these guys on the field and I don’t see any reason this Sunday to keep Barden, Sintim or Beckum on the bench as we know what the starters can do.
So what if Sintim blows some assignments. Are you telling me it gets worse then this Sunday?
Let’s see what we get after next year with these guys but I’m just tired of TC playing the college system with some draft picks and saying they are too ‘green’ to play. You got the guy in the 2nd ROUND – PLAY HIM.
Not all year...
but for a better part of it.
Sintim played…what if HE DID BLOW ASSIGNMENTS? Think of that. Cuz he probably did. It wasn’t worse then Sunday…cuz it was Sunday. Sintim was out there….
Clark..Sintim, Kehl..whoever, everyone blew assignments. No one tackled.
Beckum didn’t play…cuz he can’t block, and refused to run a proper route. They would’ve used him earlier too..but he was always hurt.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 28, 2009 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for making my case it was a bad draft
but credit due to JR as the two before we’re absolutely stunning.
Bad draft?
No…it wasn’t.
They got a potential superstar WR in Nicks.
They have a potential starter at LT for the next 10 years in Beatty.
Teams GM’s would murder people for that.
And that’s what we know after one year. Who knows after next if Sintim stays healthy, Barden and Beckum get their shots as well.
So no…this was not a bad draft.
For Beatty and Nicks alone…its a B. For the potential that remains to be seen of the rest…its a B+ to a A-.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 28, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
Bad Draft
We’ll have to see. The one thing that is for sure is we’re solid Giant fans.
As I said, Nicks could end up beign a superstar and Beatty is a flat out steal if he becomes a starter but missing out on the 2nd round and the rest of the draft is deadly as that is the backup roles and special teams players needed to balance the team.
I don't understand...
how you can say it was a bad draft? And how did we miss out on the 2nd round? We picked up Beatty and Sintim (if the draft was re-done both of these guys would still be 2nd rounders if not 1st rounders). I agree with FreeBradshaw on this, the draft was a B+ at best, B- at worst… How is that a bad draft? Most rookies never see the light of day when it comes to playing time even when healthy, so you can’t be that upset that only 2 got serious playing time. The only thing I was upset with by the 2009 draft was that we had 10 picks or something around there and didn’t make any trades for an established player. Considering that we didn’t even have the roster space to sign all 10 picks yet still made 10 selections was JR’s worst decision last offseason, IMO. You can’t blame him for the poor production of the FA’s, that’s on the players or coaches and you certainly can’t blame him for the rookies not getting any playing time, once again – on the coaches. You’ll see this group of rookies get a lot more playing time next year.
at this point
we can all speculate…but we don’t know if it’s been good or bad.
time will certainly tell though. I wouldn’t give it a B though. but i could eat those words…and vice versa.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
agree
a good draft is when 3 or 4 guys end up contributing significantly in some way. Nicks will be a good maybe great player. Beaty should be at least adequet and maybe very good at tackle. We know that after one season if Sintim develops then its a good draft if Barden or Bekum do as well then it’s a great draft. Mannigham did nothing his rookie year a looked good this year too early to make judgments on guys.
In defense of JR
the PLax situation killed him in this draft. I say that becasue he was unexpectaley forced to adress it and picked 3 WR/TE guys in the first 4 rounds. If Plax was here they draft one WR in round 3 or 4 and pick another D-Lineman, LB or Saftey and one of those guys goes in round . The Plax thing forced them to rebuilt at a position where they were not anticipating and JR was not able to that in one offseason and it showed. I think he adressed WR well now onto the D.
Down season
Look, I haven’t felt this bad after a loss in long long time. That being said, the Giants have been on one of the best stretches of success in their entire history. This was a good decade for Giants football. Lots of appearances in the Playoffs. Two Super Bowl apperances (1W – 1L). I really can’t complain to much. I can still remember when The Giant’s top two QB’s where Dave Brown and Kent Graham. Yuck!
The point is this: The Giant’s have a good core of young players (Manning, Tuck, Kiwi, Bradshaw, et al). I have faith that TC and management will make the necessary changes to the coaching staff, make smart and effective choices in the draft and Free Agency and have the team back to competitive level for 2010. I can only hope.
......
I really think the biggest culprits this year were INJURIES to key personel (Ross, Phillips, Alford, Canty, etc). Then, I do think there was some issue with the Giant’s DC. Players kept talking all season about miscommunication and being unsure of their assignments. So, you had backups playing key positions and then on top of that, no one knew what they were supposed to be doing. It was a bad mix. TC and managent need to do their homework in the off season and fix this team.
Good call on Alford
I want to see this guy healthy and back next year.
I think Coffield has seen better days and eh should follow Bernard out of town.
Cofield
Is only 25 I think. And in a year in which our DTs would seemingly go entire games without disrupting the timing of a play, he seemed like the one guy who was actually occasionally creating some disruption in the backfield. I would definitely like to keep him around and see what he can do in a rotation with Canty and Alford next year. If you meant Fred Robbins, aka Mr. All I do at this point in my career is block extra points, then yes please let’s ship him out.
by SonictheHedgecock on Dec 28, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
C.C. Brown
You know I’m actually pretty big on C.C. Brown. Don’t get me, wrong, he’s awful covering, but in terms of a back up (which I imagine he was called in to be), he’s not bad. Brown is by far the biggest hitter on the team. When he gets a good hit… well I honestly would rather face down Brandon Jacobs. Keeping him at the very least on Special Teams isn’t a bizarre idea in my book. I think he was a guy that got thrown in the worst position after all of our injuries.
C.C. is a pure hitter
who couldn’t find a receiver in his zone if you gave him a GPS. I would love to see him and Chase as gunners next year on special teams and backups on defense. We could even use C.C. as a kind of rover who comes down into the box and stays there, I think he and Rouse would be great at that. But for the love of god don’t let him play in a deep zone. I know we were shorthanded but C.C. playing whatever kind of misguided coverage he was playing in the NO game is one of the reasons Sheridan needs to go. Not being able to evaluate the basic strengths and weaknesses of your players and then putting them in a position where they’re going to embarrass themselves and the team is not the hallmark of a good DC. I’m sure that’s exactly what most of the D-Linemen were thinking after the 20th time they got burned dropping into coverage.
by SonictheHedgecock on Dec 28, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
I'm with you all the way
on keeping CC and Rouse as gunners and rovers. They’re both awesome hitters.
Plain and simple
CC Brown is not a NFL football player. He does not belong in the league. There’s lots of guys that can be human bowling balls.
I'd say a vast majority of BBVers agree with you on that (or at
least on your first two sentences.)
Anyone have an answer..
First let me set this up. Season basically over, one game left against the Vikings. Do we start Eli or not? If not, start David Carr. Now, I think Carr was only signed through this year, which means he will be a free agent. In other words, can’t use him for trade bait in terms of draft picks, right? That would be too bad. I say start him, see where this guys is at, especially playing against the Vikings who are searching for home field. There are teams in need of a QB, if able, wonder if we can get anything for him.
We know what Carr can do
Once again – PLAY THE ROOKIES. Let’s see what Bhomar can do with a half of football and find out where his gaps are in and where he needs to develop.
Yes play the rookies...
but, if we can get something for Carr, we do have to showcase him a bit. Moot point I made anyway, as I did find out it was a one year deal. He is going into free agency, no chance of a trade. I would not play Bhomar this weekend, but I would love to see Barden out there!
Best players on the field
Within reason – a useful strategy.
What about Sintim as a pass rushing DE. He’ll know where to line up anyway. And…
it allows Kiwi to go back to SLB. Before everyone goes nuclear think about it. He plays more snaps, has the intelligence to play LB in complex schemes, stuffs the run well and has the size to manage TEs when he has to. As a blitzer – what back will want to block him?
Can he pass cover? Do not recall how well he did on that in the past. And he would have to stay at SLB – no more moving him.
A rejuvinated Osi and Tuck at DE. Sintim is a designated pass rusher and Tuck goes inside on 3rd and long. Tollefson for depth.
It is a reach but out of the box thinking may be needed for this D.
The other option is to spend the offseason with Sintim and pray he turns into a SLB.
No thanks
Kiwi is our starter at RE.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Dec 28, 2009 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
let's all bear in mind....
we know injuries plagued us….we know what guys coming back from knee injury will do (not much).
so please, let’s not expect much from this kid Alford next year. If we do … we’ll all be calling for his head this time next year, just like some are calling for Cofield’s right now…which i think is not fair at all.
I even bring Robbins back for the right price…and 1 year.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
offseason
Giants need to upgrade at G. Seubert really struggled this year. Also need to find a true back-up/Center of the future. I love O’hara but he cant play forever. Hoepfully Phillips can come back at close to 100%. Still need another S and DT….and new D coordinator.
Agreed on OL
O’Hara was a steal from Cleveland in that trade but he’s aging. Seubert I think can squeeze out another 2 years but the point is we need to find some talent in the draft here and start to develop it fast.
I’d really like to see an impact SS pick.
The good news is …
We will have a number of second year players really contributing in 2010. Nicks, Sintim & Beatty should all be solid starters all year long. Hopefully we will get to see Beckum and Barden and what they can do.
Gone are (should be) McKenzie (unless he’s cheap enough to keep for insurance), Robbins, Bernard, Clark, Pierce, CC Brown, Feagles, and Moss.
Question marks on guys like Jacobs and Osi, but let’s see what they have in camp before panicking, as they have little or no trade value at the moment. I still think Boley and Canty can be good pick-ups, so let’s see in camp again.
It’s easier to decide who should be back for how they play on the field, but this team is also lacking in real leadership. Eli can try and rally the troops along the side-line, but it isn’t his natural personality. On D, there seems to be a general void. Perhaps some FA depth that excels in the locker room / sideline should be a priority.
As far as coaching, Sheridan’s gone, and a Fox or other seasoned DC/HC in waiting type would be great. Can’t imagine the Special Teams being less "special", let’s roll the dice there with someone new, too.
Moss
Nothing against the guy but if I have to see another year of ‘Is Sinorice Moss coming of age’ in camp next season I’m going to puke.
he’s a great talent but doesn’t fit this system or doesn’t work well with Eli. Let it go.
Feagles cost us the AZ game and did a horrible job against San Diego.
I think that is why so many people in this website are so mad. We played some of the good teams so well (Dallas, Philly, SD, AZ) and we’re missing the playoffs. So many games this year we almost won even though we were making huge mistakes.
Overall, the Def line was just getting crushed and we had to commit 8 to the box to stop it and then we get killed in the pass. That is why I know we need changes in the secondary but it’s hard to tell when a DB has to cover someone for 5 seconds man to man. That is hard to do for any corner or cover guy.
Well said
add DeOssie to the “gone” list if Alford can handle all long snapping.
With AP gone leadership on D will be a questionmark – but it should in no way force Ginats to keep AP. He is done.
AP
I thought AP was done last year when the Eagles just crucified him in the playoffs. He’s lost so much of that speed he once had and can’t cover most backs or the deep half in cover 2.
they guy played a great career here but I’d put him behind Armstead and my personal favorite was Pepper Johnson – LOVED THIS GUY!
Too bad we couldn’t keep this guy here but someone will pay him the big bucks thinking he has some in the tank.
Interesting stuff, my take
Sintim is a rook and like most rookies he is completely confused, and not shocking coming out of a 3-4 base D in college. He has a knack for getting to the qb, not great in coverage but solid against the run, he will be fine moving fwd. NO he did not beat out clark for the SLB, but kenny phillips didn’t win his spot either last year. Why?Coughlin is very slow to move youth into the lineup which tells you how good Nicks is and how hard it is to go from college to the NFL.
Seubert had an above average year according to the tape and some strange numbers I found on the internet ,but the run blocking was not great this year. I think Mckenzie may be the first to go, but depth is a concern, except for left tackle and left guard.
I was surprised in the off-season when the Giants didn’t hire Giunta, who was a d coordinator in st louis, but with Sheridan struggling I think the gmen may want more experience. How bout 5 mill for Cowher? I know I know, but one can dream.
can't compare KP to Sintim
KP may not have started last year but saw a ton of time compared to what Sintim has done thus far.
I’m not calling him a bust or anything but again, for a 2nd rounder who we were all pretty high on, to be where he’s at this late in the year….well, it’s concerning.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
Mario Mannigham
Lamar Woodley, Santonio Homes, Steve Bresten. Why am I mentioning these guys becasue they are all high draft picks that did squat their rookie years to become impact players with their respective teams by season two or three. I’m not overly concerned about Sintim yet.
Nicks was drafted to step in right away, he ran the same exact O in college the Giants ran, they used to watch film of ELI at UNC. Sinitm played more or less a different positoin in college it’ll take time like it did for Lamar Woodley and James Harrison in Pittsburg. I’m not saying he’s destined to be that good but it does not happen overnight so I still think he’ll be fine.
point taken...
i’m not freaking out or anything…but like i said, it’s somewhat concerning and it would be nice to see him a bit further along. The groin injury also really set him back…
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
Orakpo (sp)
went from a 3-4 at Texas to a 4-3 with Skins. He is not the shaprest pencil in the box and he did quite well.
Maybe it is the ….coaching?
He was out of position at LB
all of his sacks but like 2 came from the DE position. And if you actually watched him in coverage, it was painful. Now, if you are trying to possibly say the Redskins coaches are better than ours, I really don’t know how to respond to that.
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Dec 29, 2009 2:37 AM EST up reply actions
Nicks ran the same O at North Carolina
that the Giants do. They used to watch film of Eli when he was at UNC thats how similar the offesnes were and thats why the Giants drafted him over Kenny Britt.
Sintim like you stated came from a completeley diffferent system, he was drafted for his talent not his ability to contribute right away. Manningham did nothing last year but was a talented guy that came on this year, Sintim might be able to do the same I just hope the Giants did not make a mistake drafting a guy who played a different LB position in college that does not fit the Giants system.
I think many are spoiled
for how much past rooks have contributed to the Giants.
The fact that Nicks himself even played…is excellent.
Doesn’t anyone remember the whole “1st year WR rarely contribute” idea?
Even guys like Sintim don’t always contribute.
Corey Webster was a bust until the playoffs of 2007-08 wasn’t he?
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 28, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
Tired of....
Sinorice Moss…Could you be any more fragile? Get rid of him.
Jeff Feagles..What is so hard about kicking it out of bounds 10 yards farther? Gone.
Lawrence Tynes..Kick off past the 20. Good-bye.
Brandon Jacobs..If you’re going to roar & stomp you have to back it up with play Dude.
Osi, Tuck, Kiwi..“We Know What We Have To Do”, you just never do it,
The Fragile-Flowers defensive backs…Could you be any slower?
AP..Thanks for the memories, time is a thief, Adieu.
Bill Sheridan..not wasting the pixels, get on the next bus out.
Coughlin..You are one miracle catch by David Tyree from winning nothing. Step up ur game.
Nothing Is Fool proof if you have the right fools.
Phillips
I keep hearing rumors that Kenny Phillips injury may be career threatening. Is there any update on him? I thought I heard tha during the procedure they didnt find as much arthritis as they initially thought. Has anybody heard?
From KP's blog:
“As far as my rehab goes I’m down in Miami, walking around, starting to walk on a treadmill, do some light mini-squats, leg presses, nothing major. I had a checkup last month with Dr. Andrews in Alabama and he said the knee looks great and everything is on schedule. I picked up my rehab a little bit but I don’t want to overdo it. All I can do right now is wait until the knee is good enough so I can get back out there and start running around.”
That was written December 4, I haven’t been able to find anything more recent. I think that at the very best he’s going to be less effective than usual next year and deal with the typical 18-month period before full recovery from major knee surgery before hopefully returning to form in 2011. But nothing I’ve seen so far indicates that KP is in danger of his career ending, other than people on message boards saying how serious his injury is. All I know is I would rather have him back on one good leg than let CC Brown take any more snaps at safety.
by SonictheHedgecock on Dec 28, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
a lot to consider
first of all, i know all teams deal with injuries but the gmen seem to have had more than their fair share. obviously that makes a big difference. second, they probably do need a new d coord. last, osi, robbins and cofield all had surgeries that some players never fully recover from so that has to be looked into. it’s this last possible factor that worries me the most. i mean how can they do all of that re tooling in one off season.
as for a new coord., can they find the next bill b?
earth, wind and fire
i was a little surprised the gmen seemed uninterested in resigning ward. they seemed to have a lot of confidence in ware and they drafted brown who looked to be a sure star. now, looking back, they would have been much better off with a healthy ward in the mix. it seems winning in the nfl often involves a delicate balance. if one or two seemingly small things change, that can cause significant and sometimes unforeseen consequences.
Ward
I think the Giants knew Ward had a good year as did Jacobs due to the monster holes to run through. Without those holes Ward was exposed this year but I’ve love to see him back as Eli trusted him in the passing game.
those achilles injuries are tough.
ward
that old saying
’’don’t give up a bird in hand for two in the bush". the giants were guilty of that with respect to ward.
ward was a free agent
To pay him and Jacobs would have been stupid, and Ward was pretty unimpressive
The Giants had 2 injuries
Ware and Brown.
Brown was actually gonna be Derrick Ward. Even as a rook…he was gonna play a big role.
Ward was essentially replaced…you can’t count on injuries.
In hindsight..yea, Jake seemed to ‘give up’ when he got his contract…well…so did Derrick Ward in Tampa, not a word heard about him from down there.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 28, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
2009 regular season should be no surprise
Tom Couglin:
“There wasn’t one phase I thought played well,” Coughlin said. “I didn’t think we were very physical at all. We came in with some solid physical objectives, things we knew from the first week we would have to improve upon. And we really didn’t accomplish any of those.”
Later in his postgame news conference, Coughlin said the team had “quite frankly, been embarrassed.”
Pre-season game: Giants fall to Bears, 17-3
Wasn't that the game
where every receiver dropped every ball in their hand?
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
dominate d line
i was looking forward to a year full of sacks. i thought the gmen might break the sack record. instead the d line looked just the opposite. the fact that when they rushed four lineman, with no tricks or stunts, and they usually didn’t get near the qback, i think really points to a problem with the individual players as well as sheridan and all the injuries.
Time to Start the Sheridan Firing watch
Sure the Giants defense was lousy this season. It left me wishing that there was some way the front office could have kept Spagnuolo.
Time for the Sheridan vigil. Will the front office wait until after next week or will they act soon?
A commentator on WFAN claims the defensive coordinator is 50% of the problem. Getting rid of Sheridan solves 50% of that problem, all right. Many of the same defenders took the field this year that played last year. Sheridan can’t look in the mirror with pride for what he’s done.
Shower Direction
When you say forward, do you mean facing the water? If so, that’s what I do. Facing backward is just silly. No two ways about it.
last comment on the draft....
and I hate to remind everyone of this but….in regards to Nicks.
what’s funny/sad is that the giants didn’t even want him…they wanted Maclin.
Maclin is no scrub, just not Hakeem.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
What's even worse...
is they wanted DHB.
Tho…the idea, which is to improve team speed…is needed.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 28, 2009 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
watch out! the season isn't over
as ugly as this year has been, it could get even worse. do you think favre remembers that the gmen went up to green bay and took them out of the playoffs a couple of years ago? i’ll bet he does. now, invoking some old monty python imagery for a minute. it’s like the gmen’s season has had it’s arms and legs taken off, favre would be all to happy to hack the head clean off on national television. i’ll bet he’d love to end the giants season in the most humiliating way. the gmen have to be weary of this last game. don’t let this turn real, real ugly.
THe vikings have their own problems to worry about now
although knowing what we do about Favre, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if he’s thinking about personal revenge while the teams sinks around him.
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Dec 29, 2009 2:40 AM EST up reply actions
Ponderances
Well, I have to say in all the years I have been watching this team, I have never been so blatantly wrong about their prospects – honestly, I thought we were a lock to win the NFC this year – we had a core group that had won the superbowl already, added FA’s, added draft picks – not only did we have studs but we had DEPTH as well.. What did it add up to? FAILURE. The complete implosion of the defense is honestly perplexing to me – how could that group get so bad so fast? Forget even talking about the offense – Put any offense in the hole our D has been putting ours in, and when Julius Peppers gets to passrush on every down and your one-dimensional, you aren’t going to be effective – period.
Anyway, here is my take:
1) Honestly – if we could get John Fox as our head coach, I would flush Coughlin, Sheridan and the whole bunch right down the toilet without a second thought. It is clear to me that Coughlin is simply a rah rah figurehead, and he (unlike alot of coaches) can only provide what his assistants can provide. It has to be clear now that we got a Superbowl Ring because of Spagnolo. How do you explain the uneven performance of this team under the same head coach given that the assistants have been changed like underwear. If you remember, Coughlin sucked when he got here, flushed his entire staff down the toilet to save his own butt, they replaced them with Spags and Co – won the SB, then the underlings went to greener pastures and now here we sit with Sheridan and co back in the toilet bowl with virtually the SAME personnel. Coughlin is a clipboard holding figurehead. I would like to see a head coach like Fox who is at least hands-on on one side the ball, preferably defense. Defense wins championships. That said, how far away does it seem for us now.
2) It my contention that the biggest problem we have on defense is not having stout DT’s that can hold the middle or collapse the pocket. Honestly, if that ONE aspect improved, I think the entire defense would improve trememdously. If the QB can sit there in the pocket for 6 seconds every play, there is no group of DB’s in the world that can cover. Robbins aged 20 years in the offseason, Bernard looks like he ate Detroit. Canty doesn’t have the build to be effective inside, have you ever seen someone long and lean like that be effective inside against guards with a much lower center of gravity.
Fix this one problem, and if you have a fierce front, it mitigates problems in the secondary.
3) Safety is a BIG problem. Johnson is just horrible, he overpursues on every play, can’t tackle, doesn’t even TRY to tackle sometimes. Phillips – arthriis – geez. CC, i don’t want to talk about it. Rouse sucks. Really, we have NOBODY effective in this position. Its going to have to be addressed. To be honest, I was never impressed with Phillips when he was playing either, he was missing just as many tackles as some of these buffoons.
4) I think our LB’s are horrible and Pierce is about done. Again, we need to fortify the MIDDLE of the field, to push people to the edges where Tuck, Kiwi and co can make plays.
However, I have to say, the one intangible thing that is so noticeable is that there is no real emotional leadership out there, no emotion on the defensive side of the ball at all. To me, I think there are rifts between the defensive players and the staff – similar to when we had Lewis in here. We have been seeing it in Osi and such, but they have been muzzling themselves. I suspect it will all come out shortly once the bloodletting starts.
Overall, what a disappointing season, to say I am disgusted is putting it mildly. Its not often that we get such a collection of talent – and this team has a ton of it on BOTH sides of the ball – but as we can see, coaching is a hell of alot more important in the NFL that it is in Baseball and such.
Comments on your Ponderances
1. You want a guy that tried to keep Delhomme as the QB? The same guy that let the worst offense in SB history score 30+ points on us (Baltimore). don’t get me wrong because I love Fox but he’s made some considerable mistakes in big games and names.
2. Totally agree. Not tellnig what happens when you have a solid DT play that can push the pocket and keep the cut back from being wide open
3. spot on
4. Who knows how bad they are if the DT are being pushed into their lap.
THe Panthers decisions to stick with Delhomme time and time again
also include numerous times when they would pass repeatedly when still in single score games instead of relying on their running game. The guy should never have had a chance to throw many of those picks. And I hope Mr. Dubsrub is not crediting Spags for producing an offense that was in the top three of the league in scoring. That would be an impressive feat.
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Dec 29, 2009 2:46 AM EST up reply actions
THe Giants were 11-5
in TC’s second season without Spags and the D was fine that year.
I love Fox but the Panthers have never made the playoffs consecutive seasons . . . kinda like Fassel era Giants.
Agree with you DT, LB Saftey are issues but if Plax did not shoot himself maybe they would of drafted some studs to fill those rolls this year.
Exactly
What is this love affair with John Fox? While I think he’d be great as a D-coordinator, he has yet to show consistency as a head coach. TC has pretty much willed this team into the playoffs every year he’s been here. People keep talking about Cowher, but the real genius in that organization is the personnel staff that continually puts talent on the field while not keeping guys past their prime.
7)
Yes I believe the leadership thing. There is a direct correlation. I think Eli is a very good QB, but not a guy youre going to ask to get his teammates fired up. If youve played sports, you know there has to be someone you look to when things get heavy or your confidence dwindles. Honestly who can you say our guy is? Stra is gone. AP is hurt and lost cred with bad plays. Tuck is a quiet guy. Osi wants to be, but is a brat. On offense? I could see one of the WRs being a leader. Possibly Nicks in a year or 2. ITS NOT ELI. He is the first one out of the locker room and keeps to himself. Hes not a guy who youre going to follow into the trenches.
We can't really say
That Eli is not the guy. We don’t see what is taking place on the sideline when the d is on the field. Remember the NO game when Bradshaw didn’t pick up a blitz and Eli got into his ass? Sideline reporter reported Sunday about how Eli went up and down his offense about making plays and how he was tired of how bad they were playing, unfortunatly, he came out and threw a pick the very next series. We only see what the cameras want us to see, but to think that Eli is not the leader of that group is flat wrong. Don’t forget that this is the same guy that led a 2 minute drive in the Superbowl to defeat an 18 and oh Patriot team for a title. I think the young guns will follow him into the trenches. Steve Smith already has and he has a 10 table stunner to show for it.
I want to be
as optimistic as you are, but Ive seen the guy after wins and after losses (whooo field pass!… but seriously no one ever checks, not that this will work in the new diggs, but you could go to the elevator on the tunnel endzone, just get in and take it to the bottom, walk out and act casual as all the players come out of the locker room.) Eli is a solid QB. He puts up good numbers, cant take that away from him. But its a reach to think he is the guy his teammates will look to when they need some motivation/confidence. Eli sulks out after losses. Throws temper tantrums and needs Archie to console him. After wins, he bolts out of there. Hes the only guy who WONT shake hands or sign something. You dont even ask.
I would liken him to A. J. Burnett. Talented, yes. Prone to letting things snowball. He is great when he has good support, but not a guy who is good for a win on his own. Also has weird quirks like whos catching… because he really has to feel comfortable to do his thing.
And lets be honest here, there was no pressure to win that superbowl game. No one expected it. The last two years there has been a lot of pressure and expectations… and two big collapses. If Eli was a locker room guy, he would not have let that happen.
what it comes down t
Nicks is going to be great and i really dont blame the offense, sometime eli couldve done a better job but he was the most stable part of the team, hedgecock dropping that touchdown in the endzone and getting a holding penalty when steve smith caught the td. we just need some pieces to be replaced on offense. as far as the defense, when philips went down the gmen went down. so we need to draft a second ss and hope philips can come back. mlb has to be changed and we need another cornerback to groom. a dt will also be needed better to go in the draft than to be signed via free agency. i think we’ll be great as long as the giants sign or draft a rb, ol, de,dt, mlb, cb, ss or fs mayb even a combo safety
CHUUUUUUUUUUUUUCH
Pondering the Draft
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: We are softer in the middle than Oprah at a buffet. We gotta fix this. Here’s how the draft can help.
ROUND 1: With the 20th pick, the New York Giants select Brandon Spikes, MLB, Florida. 6-3, 258, 4.75 He hits people. Hard. That’s what he does. Plays faster than timed. Hits people. Hard. Did I mention he hits people? Hard? I know you want a safety. But Taylor Mays is gone by now, and there’s not another safety available with this much talent in the first. Spikes reminds us of Jeremiah Trotter which is to say – it’s only "dirty" if the other guy is doing it to you.
ALTERNATE: Dan Williams, DT, Tennessee – Height: 6-3 | Weight: 327 | 40-Time: 5.20
ROUND 2: Again, we’re soft in the middle. So anything we can do to shore that up, we do. We don’t panic, because we’re getting Kenny Phillips back, so we go get DT Dan Williams of Tennessee – Height: 6-3 | Weight: 327 | 40-Time: 5.20. A lot of people like him better than the kid from Alabama. Could be solid. ALTERNATE: S Myron Rolle, FSU
ROUND 3: S Myron Rolle Florida State 6-2, 223, 4.75 A big part of why our defense looks so bad is – Bill Sheridan. But besides that, it’s stupidity. Rhodes Scholar Myron Rolle should help with that. He can play, too. ALTERNATE: Syd’Quan Thompson, CB, Cal
OTHER OPTIONS: If CB Syd’Quan Thompson 5-9, 191 4.50 is still around, we should snag him. He’s little, but he’s wicked-smart and talented. He’s a shutdown corner.
ALTERNATE: Alabama’s Javier Arenas would be a great get, too, but he’ll likely be gone.
O-LINE: We ain’t getting any younger. There’s a bunch of talent out there, though.
At tackle, I like: Vladimir Ducasse, Massachusetts 6-5 330 5.35; Jason Fox Miami (FL) 6-7 314 5.25 and Chris Scott of Tennessee (6-5 346 5.30)
At guard, I like John Jerry of Ole Miss (Peria’s brother?) 6-6 335 5.60, Chet Teofilo of Cal 6-3 329 5.30
and don’t forget the Center position. We love O’Hara, but he’s getting old. We could get a steal with Hawaii’s John Estes 6-3 300 5.25
The RB situation is…less than ideal. here are some ideas: RB
LeGarrette Blount of Oregon had his issues this year, but he can play, and at 6’2" 240, he’s the kind of Derrick Ward player we sorely lacked this year. Andre Dixon of UConn has some heart…wouldn’t pick him very high, though. Now if you want to get out of the box, what about Stanford’s Toby Gerhart? The guy almost won a Heisman while taking 21 hours of REAL courses at Stanford, and will run through a brick frickin’ wall. He’s the kind of all-heart player that can turn a team around. Another wacky thought: Little Brandon James of Florida is a KR specialist who could probably be a 3rd down type…he’s so fast he’ll singlehandedly rescue the economy because we’ll all hurt our necks looking for him and chiropractors will get rich.
Anyway, I’m sure you’ll hate all of these, but I insist upon Spikes. And the more I think about Gerhart, the more I like the idea. Fire away. (Start with Sheridan.)
I left my swagger in my other pants.
I like the later round picks
Especially Blount and Dixon (who’s actually from Miss. State).
I don’t like Brandon Spikes. He’s always nicked up with injuries and on the sideline…I’d rather stay away from a guy like that. He’s also more of a product of an entire defense composed of superior athletes.
Myrone Rolle would be a nice fit. Smartest player maybe in the history of the draft…yea, like your thinking on that.
I like Dan Williams too.
Actually..other then Spikes..like em all. I just think your reasoning on Spikes is off. He’s a hitter…yea. Is he Maualuga? Dunno.
Jon Goff is a hitter too, and deserves a full shot at the job (which…he probably will)
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 28, 2009 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
I really like the Brandon James idea BTW.
Speed Speed Speed.
Even Trindon Holliday wouldn’t be a bad idea.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 28, 2009 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
Dan Williams
is a fat tack. No point in wasting a high draft pick for that when we have it in Cofield
by mclaren_is_the_best on Dec 28, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
I'd be more worried about that strength part
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 28, 2009 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
Isn't rolle
staying in England next year working with that Rhodes Scholarship? If not he is definitely the kind of guy I would root for?
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Dec 29, 2009 2:43 AM EST up reply actions
I thought Rolle would still be studying too,
…but the draftniks have him listed…maybe he’ll be done?
I respectfully disagree with FreeBradshaw on Spikes, but that’s ok.
I don’t know all that much about Dan Williams, but Tenneseee’s interior line seemed to be its usual stout self this year…and what in the world happened to Cofield? Be good to get Jay Alford back, for sure.
No love for Toby Gerhart? Even as a late rounder? That kid runs so hard!
I left my swagger in my other pants.
Gehart will be long off the board.
Tho..he screams Joe Montgomery.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 29, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
mmmmhm
I totally agree with you on Toby.
he is so tasty i could eat im up (though that would upset my stomach)
TOBY is our man… no doubt about it.
by EarthWindFire on Dec 31, 2009 6:29 AM EST up reply actions
I just read in the NY Post ...
That TC met today with his “leadership council” …
I hope it was in circular firing squad formation.
Also reported was that Harry Carson said “the Giants showed no pride”. We always talk about how at times the team needs one of the old greats to give a locker room speach to the current team. Why not hire a guy like Carson to be on retainer to motivate as a group, and to also spend some one-on-one time with key players that the coaches feel they just aren’t getting the full potential out of ?
I was listening to the game on the radio
during a multihour car ride.
Was not fun…
Carl Banks was openly disgusted with the Giant’s performance, as was I
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
Lost in the fray
Is Eli is having a career year, its really odd for Giants fans of a certain age to be disappointed by the defense but excited about the offense…..talk about a role reversal
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Giants future
I blame the lack of an interior push as the main reason for the ineffectiveness of the defense. The safeties were mediocre two years ago, but the defensive line helped them game in and game out. Osi will stick around because he was still recovering from injury this year. He is a good DE when there is an interior push, that way he can do the only thing he is capable of doing, and running 15 yards around the edge of the tackle and swiping at the quarterbacks arm.
Canty will get another year because he was injured as well. I loved Alford last year, but the one thing we should point out is the players that suffered injuries may not come back to 100% this year, if ever (think Osi). The Giants have to plan accordingly. They’ll need to address safety and DT. (Also, can we count on getting something out of Andre Brown next year??)
Every team has injuries, but the Giants were not able to make up for theirs the way other teams were. All the apologists out there need to hold Reese accountable for not having any of the late draft picks contribute towards the depth of the team THIS YEAR.
Also hold Reese accountable for the free agents signings of CC, Bernard, etc. Give him credit for putting faith in the young WR core, and not giving away draft picks.
Special Teams will get reworked, but many teams have up years and down years for the Special Teams so maybe next year will be an up year. For the sake of change, the Giants will change kicker/punter.
Obviously Sheridan is gonzo. Not sure that the giants will go with an outsider, probably Guinta (I’m praying for Fox).
Anyone even suggesting that Coughlin’s term is running out should spend a year or two with someone like Mangini as their head coach. Coughlin’s are hard to come by.
All in all, the Giants had a dissapointing year, but were still only one win away from the playoffs. Eli will have a monster year next year being healthy and having a WR core that is one year more experienced (please make Moss the towel boy). Defense? Who knows. So sad- that was supposed to be their strength this year.
The lack of an interior push
you can blame flozell adams and his scummy trip for that.
We were forced to play a hurt tuck at DE and Kiwanuka at DT (recipe for disaster)
by mclaren_is_the_best on Dec 29, 2009 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
how about..
How about a leader defensive coach?
look at Spags.
BS was crapping in his pants every time something went wrong.
by EarthWindFire on Dec 31, 2009 6:32 AM EST up reply actions
And here I thought this thread would be about Willie Ponder...
…disappointing.
by Step up and make big plays on Dec 28, 2009 9:56 PM EST reply actions
Draft?
What kind of junk is this discussing last years draft before even the end of the season??? Your the type of guy who would have said eli was a bust after losing all but one of his games in his rookie season… Just because reese was great enough to get ready to play rookies in 07 doesnt mean that it the way it is meant to be… THEY ARE ROOKIES FOR A REASON! They are meant to be inconsistent and struggle and they are meant to get better in years 2-4… Id rather we evaluate the 08 draft class and leave this years class for next year.
about the emotion thing
i think a good team has to have balance, you need some nuts, but you also need some guys who can stay calm in the moment like eli. i think the giants need a crazy linebacker like kwinkia mitchell (spelled his name wrong) was when they beat the pats, he was always blowing through the line and acting crazy, they dont have a defensive player like him.
"Yes we lost and yes we are upset. But like all Champs we will bounce back."
Osi umenyiora
by donnybaseball23 on Dec 28, 2009 11:02 PM EST reply actions
offseason
obviously sheridan has to go. You can point out the injuries but every team every year has their fair share of injuries. Carolina has had Thomas Davis out for most of the season and a revolving door at DT but they made the proper adjustments and destroyed us and Minnesota. We have given up 40+ points 4 times this year…I don’t think the Browns, Lions or Rams can even claim that. With that being said, football games are won in the trenches, where we happen to be abysmal this year. Pressure on the qb is a must. I don’t know how long Osi’s contract lasts but we should probably trade him for a pick and insert Sintim as depth at DE behind Tuck and Kiwi. I trust JR when it comes to the draft but I would go 6 of the 7 picks on D. Brandon Spikes would be great because he CAN tackle. Draft a safety, d tackle, d end as well. Hope that KP, Ross and Canty are back to normal and I think we’ll be alright. Thomas will be a good nickel back. Not sure whether or not to keep AP.
On offense, I think we keep Gilbride. If we can get Jacobs to be a bruiser again we can have a potent offense. A healthy Bradshaw and Brown and another year of our wideouts and Eli on the same page. The only thing I wish upon is establishing Barden as a red zone threat. Just throw the ball at it’s highest point and Barden will catch it.
Osi...
We really need to take look at Osi this off season. He had a great year the SB year, but there was Strahan on the other end taking up two blockers. Last season, injured, this season, exposed as a liability against the run & unable to beat double teams on the pass rush, Could he be traded for a first round pick? I doubt it, Shockey was a Pro-Bowler & all he brought was a second round.
A team that just doesn’t show up can only be blamed on the coaches. Giants were a No-show in Denver Thanksgiving Day & clearly against Carolina. The defense couldn’t stop New Orleans at all or the Eagles in Philly. A stop in the 4th against San Diego & The Eagles in the Meadowland mean wins in both cases.
I’d love to see Sheridan gone, but then Reese has a problem of who to replace him with? 2011 looks like a lock out year so does he want a new coach with a big contract sitting around doing nothing? I’m sad to say I think BS is not going anywhere.
Nothing Is Fool proof if you have the right fools.
OSI - Overreaction
I think Osi isnt’ as bad as everyone says he is but I also donit’ think he’s a Mike Strahan either. I remember Osi before he was hurt in the preseason being very dominate and not a weakness at all.
I really think he needs this offseason to put on some weight. Right now the Roster says he’s at 261 and i would bet it’s really 245. Now, don’t get me wrong as I know people like Freeney is around 270 but I beleive with the achilles injury that Osi has to gain weight to defend the run a little better. He should try to target 280.
I also see that he can’t bull rush like other dominate DE and is always trying to go under or over and most OT have caught on.
Let’s see what this guy can do next year and how he handles the adversity.
Ahh, thats why i said he needs to look at himself, in another story
We all know he can motor upfield, which leads to taking himself out of plays, hence teams run at him. So Osi needs to readjust the way he approaches the OL if he feels he should be out there on all downs. As of now, he is a liability against the run.
But if he thinks he can continue playing like he has with no run support improvements (while wanting more money) thats not going to happen!
he doesn't always "motor upfield"
At least this year, he does that only on 3rd down. But if the whole line is expecting pass he will do his speed move which is trying to go around the tackle. Thats what he does. Thats not why they benched him. It was because Ryan Clady was driving him 20 yards down the field and he couldn’t do anything about it.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Dec 29, 2009 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
Sheridan really a bust?
Let’s look at this objectively. What kind of talent is really on the defense?
Defensive Line: Coffield, Alford, are 3rd round picks or lower, Kiwi is a 1st rounder (late). Osi is a 2nd rounder.
LB: Wow, Blackburn, Keuhl and Goff all are 5th and lower with Boley I believe being a 2nd but a FA pick up.
Secondary: Ross and Phillips is 1st round but didn’t really play this year and I think that is where the gap starts. Webster was 1st round material that fell to 2nd and the Johnsons are 6th and 7th round. CC Brown and Rouse I believe were picked up 5th and 6th round with their original teams. Terrell Thomas was 2nd round pick and I love his upside for next year.
So we have a wealth of 4th round and lower picks starting on our team. Dont’ get me wrong, I think it’s great to build players up and find some steals but lets be honest in that we really only had 1 first round pick playing on defense throughout the year and he started only 8 games (Kiwi).
So do we really want to give Sheridan a hard time with a bunch of Overachievers on defense?
Am I WAY off base here?
Before any of you trip – don’t get me wrong. Sheridan has to go.
yeah,
I think you’re slightly off base. New England’s overachieving 6th rounder has led them to 3 Superbow wins. The Raider’s 1st rounder and overall #1 from a couple of years ago is a total bust. There are gems and busts in each and every round of picks. Sheridan sucked with his collection of players.
What
The point I’m making is we have a majority of low round picks on our defense and you’re comparing that to an offense and one sixth rounder ie. Tom Brady?
Look how much Dallas has dedicated to the defense in their draft with the CB’s and Safeties and DT’s.
The point is – we need to foucs on the defense probably over the next 3 years in the draft.
my biggest issue w/ BS
is this cover 2 zone defense he plays…
and who does he have playing it? that’s right CC and Rouse…two guys who were notorious for not being cover guys.
that was a horrible horrible idea….how he got away with it is beyond me. and not only that but the inconsistency….for a while it wasn’t used that much…than it became our base defense…than we scaled it back…and than it came back even stronger.
that’s my biggest issue w/ BS…i don’t care that he’s a wall flower, or wanted to coach in the box, or pissed off Osi. You gotta get results…
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
next draft
i would put ol very high on the list if not at the top. lb would be near the top as well. those two positions were needs in the last draft. then i think they look for secondary help. last, consider dl. after all the hope and promise, it looks like they may have to replace some starters. the good news is otherwise they are solid.
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