You are a smart guy Ed but even smart guys can be guilty of misjudgements.

I have called for TC to go since Strhan almost led a mutiny several years ago. TC adjusted – to his credit – and they won the SB. His coaching was a part of that success.

But since winning the SB it has been a rollercoaster of a mess and two things are clear :
1. he has lost this team
2. he is an adequate coach at best – a grade B- coach for a team, an ownership and a market that deserves the best.

He is overly conservative. When is the last time a NYG rookie won rookie of the year – or for that matter was even in the running? TC leaves talent on the bench when they should play – if for no other reason to see what they can deliver. This year I am talking Sintim and Beatty. Others would add Beckham and Barden.

He has stuck with Sheridan too long. OK, there is value in loyalty but not to the detriment of the team. Sheridan ran a solid D into the ground. Did you see ANYONE on that D improve this year? It is called coaching and TC and Sheridan did not deliver.

But the telling thing is he has lost this team. Osi is a niche player but he is very valuable as a pass rusher. He wants out now. Michael Johnson has played well in the past but now he is a big questionmark. Same with Thomas. I can go on. I am sure others will.

You are right that the Mara’s will not fire him. More misplaced loyalty. So this conversation is more about venting.

But the fact remains TC should go. He is no longer the best coach for this team. The NFL has passed him by.

but with the talent this team has 8-8 is a bad year in my scheme of things.

Stability could mean more 8-8, 9-7 and 6-10.

Not for me.

As ‘SBaker’ eloquently pointed out Sunday evening, the Giants have spoiled us in recent years.

Why shouldn’t the Giants organization and fans expect a good team year in and year out. Until 2008 they Yanks made the playoffs 13 straight seasons. This year has been an utter failure. Not because we failed to make the playoffs but how we failed. Not showing up in Denver on national TV. Then yesterday’s debacle. The last game at Giants stadium with the playoffs on the line? That’s a f*cking disgrace.

Why accept mediocrity?

I am going to write something rather optimistic. The ship has been torpedoed, but it is not sinking. We just need to bring the ship back into port and fix it, not go out and get a new ship! In other words, Coughlin has proven he can be a very successful coach, just look at what Ed pointed out. I have always been a big TC supporter and I will continue to be. For the past 3 years, I have called for the head of Gilbride and I now call for the head of Sheridan. Okay, KG has called decent games the past 2 weeks, but I still think that the organization can do better in regards to a offensive coordinator. If I am not mistaken, TC is an offense guy, which means that the team needs a good d-coordinator, and Sheridan is not that guy. It should be imperative that the Gmen go and get a great D-Coord at this point. No doubt there is talent and the offense is not the problem right now (except for getting younger on the line). So, who is out there is terms of d-coordinators?

…is that both Gruden and Cowher are master motivators that do a superb job of getting players to “punch above their weight class” and play better than their individual talent level should dictate. Year in and year out these guys found ways to be competitive and win with whatever personnel they had because guys bought into their system.

as some may think.

This is not a team that needs to be re-built. Some well placed strategic moves personnel wise, some freedom from key injuries (losing KP hurt more than we know) and some good coaching and this team can be competitive in the post season next year.

Despite the aquisitions of folks like CC Brown and Bernard I still trust JR to plug gaps in a smart fashion. I wish I could say I trust TC to deliver the coaching part of that but I do not.

But Ed is right that the Mara’s will not fire him so I hope to be eating my words next year about now.

So because other teams are worse off, we should feel good about 8-8?
Nooooo…….I’m a NY fan (and a serious Yankee fan) who asks: what have you done lately?
Super Bowl? 2 years ago; yawwnnn…..Last year: eliminated in frist round – by Philadelphia, no less.
Fire TC and his minions and give Spags the key to Ft. Knox to come back.

NFL is not MLB

Maras are not the Steinbrenners.

But GW is right – a New York expectation that pro teams win is not unreasonable. God save the Knicks.

I used to know a guy who was a friend of George Young.
Young used to say that he loved the fans (paid his salary), but thank God, they weren’t in charge.
I admit that I’m that kind of fan, BUT I remember the 70’s and, being a Yankee fan too, don’t want to see a return to wandering in the desert waiting for another Bill Parcells.
The NFL is a “win now” place ( who knows what an uncapped league will look like), I expect (at a minimum) a yearly playoff appearance.
Most fans, I think, would think that to be reasonable.

so I don’t want a SB winning coach. I want TC to stay, because he knows how to make good players into great teams, and his influence on this team is undeniable. This team will at worst be 8-8, but realistically with better execution from the defense it could at least have had two more wins under its belt (the SD and AZ losses were bad luck).

The Giant’s have had a fantastic decade: 6 playoff appearances, 2 NFC Championships, and 1 SB win (in one of the greatest upsets of all time), and I love the stability of having an intelligent and hard-working coach driving this team.

The teams (Offense, Defense and Special Teams) were schizophrenic, week in and out, all three, you never knew who was going to show up and play the game. Much (if not most) of the problem falls on the locker-room leaders. The rest is on the coaches.

This was not a team that gave 100% Simple as that

I think he has made some mistakes but he is a very good coach who I like a lot of Giants fans slept on the 1st yr or 2….THe D Coord has to go and Jerry R had a sketchy draft and offseason for the 1st time as GM…

Barden in the 3rd rd NEVER Dressed this yr let alone cracked the lineup…and Simtim should have been passed up or parlayed into one of the USC LB’s…the late part of the draft was not as productive as yrs past 5th rd QB & 7th rd CB were reaches at best (only reason I am saying that is compared to what he has gotten in the previous drafts)

Injuries have reallly hurt this team …AP ..Phillips & going back to last yr (all though seems like he is not needed at this pt) Plax..Corey Webster ..Aaron Ross..Kareem Mckenzie..No excuses but its like calling for Jerry Manuel’s head after half the team went down..As far as guys quitting I think Osi is at odds with Bill S and some guys on D seemed to be dragging but who are we to know who is quitting ??

New D coord..good Jerry R draft ..injured players returning ..solid FA pickups and we should be ok next yr..I hate the parity of the NFL however it will allow us to rebuild quickly if they are smart… Happy Holidays and Happy New Year everyone ..

P.S looking forward to the BIG FAN ( Indie film starring Michael Rappaport about a fanantical Giants fan) coming to DVD

I agree, TC should not be Fired, however Bill Sheridan should be together with some of the unproductive defensive players and get some new blood in there, I moved to Dallas and still am a Jint but am so dissapointed at our defense which has been humiliated by each and every team except Washington who are worst than the Jints are, time for some good picks and rebuilding the defense. We have some good players on offense, just need a little tweaking on the offensive line to give Eli a little more time, hope to see a better season next year.

2010, his ass is burning. Deservedly so. But he stays. As he should. His mettle gets tested once again. Don’t be surprised to see the old, “faux military, wish I was the bastard child of George S. Patton” Coughlin reemerge. It might be a good thing. Friend of mine says there’s nothing to build on, the wilderness is upon us. I’m not so sure. Yes. The D needs a complete overhaul. The O line and running game worry me. Jacobs, a punks punk, figured out and diminished, should be gone. Who’s the # 1? It isn’t AB. Eli, WRs, TEs, all good. That’s about it. Don’t get me started on special teams. Sorry, folks, this team is in rebuilding mode. Happened to the Raiders after their last SB, fast decline, happening here. Though I do think the organization, unlike the Raiders, has the smarts to do everything needed to put the brakes on. All that said, Tom gets a chance to fix this.

but the rest of the coaches and coordinators did not call the plays that would put the Giants in the best position to succeed. Too often Tuck was dropping back in coverage, or the receivers would be bunched together, or a trap-block would let Jacobs get hit before he got going.

Maybe that’s the reason BS should go? If the players won’t play for him, you can’t get rid of the players, although some will go, deservedly so.

But the Giants played gutless football on Sunday. Some of that has to be on the coaches. I’d say the honeymoon period from the Super Bowl win is now over. The 2010 Giants will have a lot of talent – if TC can’t make them into a playoff team, it might be time to give someone else a try.

    One of the things I see on here a lot is the comparison of assembling a championship baseball team to a championship football team. But usually it’s the $ system that’s mentioned as why they aren’t comparable. Well, they aren’t, but for some other reasons as well. First, a baseball game is played with 9 players on the field, not with 22 plus a few specialists (kicker, punter, holder). Thus the impact of bringing in a new “star” player is an upgrade of 11% of your starting lineup, not an upgrade of less than 5% of your starting lineup. And of course if you’re able to bring in three big new names a year, you’ve turned over 33% of your starting unit. Football takes longer to turn around and more moves to make a signifcant change.
    
   Further, much of baseball is played in series of individual confrontations that are strung together to create a result. If your flame throwing reliever strikes out the side in the ninth, it doesn’t matter what the defensive skills fielder were, they don’t come into play. Likewise if your cleanup hitter hits .300 with 40 homers, he’s going to get 4 or more shots a game to make something happen, his ability vs. the pitcher’s. Football however is a series of short-time span scripted chaos, which depends upon multiple players doing their jobs simultaniously. And the result of how MANY of those players handle their responsibilties effect the outcome. Manning throwing to Smith is going to be more successful in general than Manning throwing to Hedgecock. Manning throwing to anyone isn’t going to work real well if the line doen’t block and he’s on his butt looking skyward.

   Anyway, I think TC will and should stay next season, though I hated this year and don’t hold him blameless for it. Adjustments HAVE to be made and some of them that should have been attempted weren’t. I think by the time it became obvious Sheridan wasn’t the man for the DC position, it was too late to make a change. It was the middle of the season, and a change likely wouldn’t have worked. However, that Sheridan got the postion and had it going into the season seems a mistake at this point.
   
   I think Sheridan needs to go. Yeah, he’s first year, but there was no progress being made, there was no continuity, there was no cohesiveness and whatever the scheme was, large numbers of people on the defensive field thought it was something else. He simply doesn’t have command of the defensive unit. And the inability to make adjustments, either game to game, or within a game when things aren’t working well is glaring.

   I don’t like Gilbride. I don’t like undertilizing the team’s advantage at tight end. Some of the play calling is questionable at best. Still, he has won, he has won with this team, and quite honestly, the overall offense was very acceptable. Further, the glaring weak point that was expected at wide receiver was a strong point. Maybe with less focus on worrying about the non-existant receiver problems, more effort can go into other areas of the offense.

    Feagles needs to be retired. Directional punting is fine, but this year his legwork consistantly resulted in short fields for the opposition. Tynes was acceptable (though nervewracking) as a field goal kicker, but his kickoffs consistantly resulted in shorter fields for the opposition and he is well substandard in that area.

    Some of the defensive linemen coming off injuries last year may rebound. If not, they need to be unemployed or employed elsewhere. A good draft will help. I’m not sure but that team can’t come back and do well next year. But I think it would be without Sheridan and Feagles and with a deep kicker. I’d also wonder what the story is with the very “unspecial” special teams, which always seem to be a substandard area. Changes on the coaching staff there might be in order too.

    Overall, I believe in continuity, and don’t like “change for change’s sake”, but Sheridan has shown nothing, and the other areas I mention I think need to be addressed as well.

In 2007 we won and had Strahan and Pierce in that defensive backfield. I remember watching Mike go up and down that bench firing up that defense to hold that score just before NE got the ball back in the final seconds. 2008 we lost Strahan and Pierce was the man in the backfield. We did darn good with his experience to make defensive adjustments. Philly hurt us in the end, but we had a solid base to build on. 2009 we lost spags and Pierce still did his job and kept that defense in most every game he played. In my view we lost it when Pierce went down for the season. Those guys looked lost out there most of the time. I do not think TC is the issue. We got hurt in some major on field leadership positions. I think too many guys were looking to Sheridan for a magic fix to loosing Pierce. We were not that deep, even though Pierce at times seemed to be loosing a step or two, he still is a master at reading offenses and changing the defense on the fly. No one else could do that after he left. What makes Eli, Peyton, and Brady great is their ability to read a defense and adjust. No different on defense, our season was all but over when Pierce went out. It is TC’s job to fix it, so in that sense he is on the hot seat as he should be.

wound up over on the fannation forums under the osi post too.

It was last year after Plax shot himself and the team went south. That was the time for leadership. That was the time for decisiveness. That was the time for adaptation and meaningful change. And I repeat, that was the time for leadership. But there was none. And so a year that should’ve seen us in the Super Bowl went down the tubes but we all had the built-in, ready-made excuse of Plax. That terrible end to last season, to me was TC’s honeymoon after the Super Bowl win the year before.
And now this year – 5-0 start – followed by 0-4 – and then the 3-3 (soon to be 3-4) end. Almost 400 points given up. The cracks were there to see in the 0-4 slide; heck, they were there in the 5-0 start if you looked closely enough. But to talk of TC not returning is absurd. To think of his firing is crazy. I beg to differ. To keep TC is absurd. To not fire him is crazy.
We’ll gladly sacrifice Sheridan and bid Gilbride goodbye as well. But TC, no. He MUST stay is the call around here. Somehow TC is not connected in any way to Sheridan or Gilbride. He stands alone, a breed apart.
The Romans had it right when it came to accountability. Losing generals fell on their swords. They didn’t talk about field conditions and injuries and officiating. They knew that ultimately they, the field general, were responsible. TC is responsible, TC is accountable, TC MUST GO.

One last add: Look at the face or faces of this franchise (especially in New York where image or the perception of that image matters) – Eli Manning and Tom Coughlin.
Eli is the absence of personality, the Kid from Deliverance, the youngest child with the forgotten middle child’s personality. And Tom Coughlin is the red-faced angry old man, head cocked as he tries hard but can’t quite understand this brave new world he finds himself in. These are the faces and the personalities of our New York Giants. Of course the team is schizophrenic. Their QB, their nominal leader and their brother on the field has nothing to say while the coach always looks like somebody’s disapproving dad.

Tom Coughlin should not be fired. It is clearly the fault of Bill Sheridan and Kevin Gilbride. They are both virtually incompetent.

Bill Sheridan’s defense only stopped teams that majority of the rest of the league could stop. Yes, you can argue that there were MANY injuries to the line and secondary. However, the same thing happened last year, but Steve Spagnuolo capitalized on the talent he had and worked around them. Both Sheridan and Gilbride don’t know how to work with what they have, they only know the canned plays they have come up with.

Another example of this is when Plaxico went out last year. Gilbride replaced him with Hixon, which could have been fine, but everyone knows that Hixon is significantly shorter than Plaxico. You cannot count on Hixon being successful with the same plays Burress was, they don’t have the same abilities. Gilbride only seemed to plug in Hixon where Burress was and never thought to change anything, thus leading to failure time and again.

What made me dislike Bill Sheridan was the Saints game. Yes, I understand the Saints have a very high powered offense. However, he NEVER blitzed. The only way to kill the snake is to cut off its head…in that case, that was Drew Brees. He NEVER got to Brees once. This is a D line FULL of Pro Bowlers and All Pro linemen, and you’re telling me you can’t get to Drew Brees? Others clearly have. Then, the Giants made Jonathan Stewart look like Barry Sanders. While Jonathan Stewart is definitely good, that defensive performance was unacceptable as well.

Obviously, with the right coordinators, Coughlin won a Super Bowl. If he could do it once, he can do it again. So fire the coordinators and start over!!!