Eli for MVP? Of the Giants -- without a doubt
by Ed Valentine on Dec 23, 2009 10:00 AM EST
in News
116 comments
Eli Manning for MVP? No one mentions the New York Giants quarterback when they talk about 2009 candidates for the honor, and Mike Celizic of NBC Sports wonders why.
Go ahead and say that suggesting Manning the Younger could be a more deserving MVP candidate than his big brother, grizzled old Brett Favre, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Philip Rivers or Donovan McNabb is like taking the rice cakes over the aged prime rib. I’ll understand, because when the idea was first suggested to me, I thought the same thing.
But if you look at what the Giants have to work with, you have to admit there’s merit to the idea. In a year in which the Giants’ defense has played worse in each succeeding week, Eli Manning has without any fanfare been putting together the best season of his six-year career. Despite a month-long losing streak, the 8-6 Giants still have a shot at the postseason, and it’s all because of Eli Manning.
I’m not suggesting he’s the best quarterback in the league. Even I’m not that foolish. But we’re talking most valuable here, not best. And the reality is that the only way the Giants are getting into the playoffs is if Eli puts them on his shoulders and drags them there.
Eli, of course, will not even get little to no support in the MVP balloting. What Celizic is right about, though, is that you simply cannot underestimate how good Manning has been this season and how important he is to the Giants.
Eli is having the best season of his career, statistically and otherwise. He has the highest completion percentage, yards per game, yards per attempt and quarterback rating of his career. All of this while working with a new, inexperienced group of receivers who, while exciting and talented, are still prone to mistakes and drops. Also, consider how good his numbers would be had he not suffered the mid-season foot injury that impacted his throwing for a few weeks.
If you pay attention you also see how masterfully Eli orchestrates the line of scrimmage, changing protections and plays. ESPN analyst Jon Gruden could not stop gushing about Eli on Monday night. Gruden's hyperbole aside, he had a point.
Eli might not be the NFL MVP. He is, though, unquestionably the Giants' MVP.
There is no doubt Eli belongs on the list when you discuss the top 6-8 quarterbacks in the league. I know there is still a faction out there, even among Giants fans, who believe Manning is not very good. They seize on every mistake to say 'I told you so.'
All I can say to that small faction is, you are wrong. You formed your opinion a long time ago, and you have closed your mind to objectively watching what you are seeing.
That's too bad. Because you are missing being able to appreciate the guy who will finish his career as the best quarterback to ever wear a Giants uniform.
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Having a hell of a year
Eli has a chance to finish with 4000 yards passing, 30 TD’s, and under 15 INTs. I think it’s time we collectively stand up and give this man a well deserved hand.
stats dont matter
if your just starting to appreciate eli now i dont know where you haave been.
since the 2007 playoff run he has been an elite qb
by Ahmad Bradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
I read that Eli's overrated since the SB run.
Seriously. I read that.
A fool of an Eagles fan told me that.
It was even after the last Giants vs. Eagles game..when Eli torched them.
Its a joke. The guy doesn’t get his due.
I guess….well..one of THESE is gonna have to happen again isn’t it?T
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
Eagle fans hate him becasue he's the NYGiants QB
no other reason.
A guy I work with who is an Eagle fan said that Eli’s stats were padded becasue of missed tackling in the last game. He’s always trying to get me to admit he’s not an NFL caliber QB, it’s idiotic.
Thats why I don’t like Eagle fans they have no clue everybody else sucks but their team is the best, they are a lot like Cowboys fans.
off topic....
what’s up with Darcy Johnson….he wasn’t active last week and MG’s reporting that the giants signed a TE off Dallas’ practice squad?!?!
Is Darcy on his way outta town or is it just me?
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
he must be in TC's Bearhouse...er, doghouse
by Step up and make big plays on Dec 23, 2009 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
something is up...
there is no need for 5 TE’s on a team that largely ignores their TE’s.
I assume that this move is being made to get help along the line…but one has to wonder what a PS kid (from Dallas mind you) can bring to the table this late in the year???
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
Darcy Johnson was just placed on IR....
which explains everything.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
Good to see Eli proven the doubters wrong
ive been an Eli supporter since day 1. even when everyone was calling for his head i was the one of few saying “give the kid time, he’ll be just fine.” a season like the one Eli is having can not go unnoticed especially with the inexperienced corp of WRs around him. This team will be very good for a long time with him leading the charge. Keep it up #10!!
by Gmen Fan in Gmen Land on Dec 23, 2009 10:27 AM EST reply actions
I agree...
he’s not gonna be mentioned, merely cuz there’s a whole lot having better seasons then him.
Yet…its not just that QB’s are having better seasons..its that there still is this misperception of him out there…ignorant misperception, that he’s just this bumbling league average QB.
Its like people have this idea of him 3 years ago…and simply believe that a QB cannot get better..ever, and that he’s simply overrated.
Here’s another thing…how come the questions about his WR are always to do with the WR? First they were unproven..now, they are an excellent young bunch of weapons. Why no credit to #10?
That every time he completes a pass..or has an excellent game..its either against sub-par competition..or in the case of the Eagles/Cowboys game…we’ll “our D didn’t get a pass rush and the DB’s played HORRIBLE”.
It all adds up. Eli Manning is an excellent QB.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
It's simple
we’ll "our D didn’t get a pass rush and the DB’s played HORRIBLE".
People hate to be proven wrong. Instead of fans or writers admitting that are/were wrong, they make excuses to save face. What has Eli done this year?….take the weakest link to our team (the receiving corps) and make it the strongest link to our team and one of the best “YOUNG” group or WRs in the league.
Time to face facts all of you non believers, the guy is an All Pro, Allstar, Superstar QB…oh yeah, and let’s not forget….A SUPERBOWL WINNING MVP!!
IMO most of the dislike
and “misperception” of Eli stems from 2 things: his father and agent’s push for the draft day trade and the fact that he is from “football royalty”. I have friends that still harbor (ridiculous at this point) ill feelings for him just from that draft day. I believe there is a large section of fans that will never give him the credit he is due because of these things.
I don't understand the draft trade stuff either...
I mean…didn’t Phillip Rivers sit for 2 years? Wasn’t Drew Brees the QB there? Why would he want to go somewhere were there is a young QB who may created a QB controversy before he’s ever there?
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
And it's not like ...
SD even wanted Eli. They wanted Rivers, but knew that others thought Eli was worthy of the # 1 pick and they wanted to get more picks. Apparently they were right (would love to play poker with Ernie Accorsi some day …)
In the end, I think both teams are thrilled with how it all worked out.
Ernie Accorsi
read the book Eli Manning: The Making of a Quarterback
Very good read. It details the history of Accorsi’s obsession with drafting Eli.
A big part of the reason Eli did not want to go to SD
was there were a lot of problems between the GM AJ Smith and then coach Marty Schotenhiemer and the stability of the franchise was in question, ie coach, stadium, GM issues and SD was AWFUL prior to that 04 season. Archie had gone through that in New Orleans and he did not want his son to go through it either so thats why he refused to play for the Chargers and prefered the Giants.
The other thing about not getting a pass rush
Is that its b/c of Eli that he doesn’t get sacked so much. He points out the blitzes, and he’s been as slippery as I’ve ever remembered. There’s been at least 5 time the average QB gets sacked, but Eli avoids, or knows where his players are and they make a play.
Eli’s been improving every year. It’ll be scary if/when the defense becomes what we hoped it would be.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
he defintely plays his part in the non-pass rush.
again..he’s got a lot better at this…
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
eli has ridiculous improvising ability
countless times this year he has made great plays while getting taken to the ground
by Ahmad Bradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Proud of Eli .. he's done quite alot
.. but I have to admit I still get MAJORLY frustrated watching him play up and down like a yo-yo at times.
Can’t figure it out if it’s the game plan (Gilbride’s design), or his ‘deer caught in headlights-look’ at times .. but for now: Kudos to the Kid, despite some shaky play at times, he’s performing quite well.
Go Gmen
Come on
EVERY QB has up and down times. No one is prefect (although Peyton seems like it sometimes). The point is those down times have become less frequent and nowhere near as low.
agreed
The down times have become much less frequent, the sign of a maturing and growing QB. And, not lookng for perfect, nor do I expect it. Just at times, does it seem like the wheels fall off and for the life of me I can’t explain/understand it.
Kudos to Eli
But looking at last year’s platoff loss to Eagles .. I won’t consider that one of his best clutch performances
Go Gmen
no it wasn't...
Yet…one catch…Hixon’s drop, would’ve helped ease a lot right? THat was a clutch throw wasn’t it? The dork on the other end dropped it
What would that do for your confidence?
I think Eli’s learned that the WR are gonna drop passes…its the NY Giants way, he’s just gotta keep throwing.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Hixon's drop was in the regular season loss to the Eagles
unless he also had one in the playoffs that I’ve mentally blocked. I really don’t remember much about that game after Asante Samuel’s INT (when I started drinking myself into a coma)
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
he did have a drop.
right in front of my section…
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Dec 23, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
he's alive!!!
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Dec 24, 2009 7:56 AM EST up reply actions
haha been on tour with my band for the last two months
sorry i missed my picks!
i’ve always been checkin the site, just not much time for conversation.
One game at a time!!!
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Dec 24, 2009 9:50 AM EST up reply actions
how did I not know about this?
I play bass in a blues band (and guitar for my dog.) Let me know if you have any shows in central, north, or eastern CT or SE Mass I would go check it out
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Dec 24, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
HELL YEA!
I play bass too brotha, just got a Fender Jaguar re-issue…love it. what you rockin with Simms?
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Dec 24, 2009 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
here's my baby:
Peavey Cirrus 5 flame maple top gold hardware & MOP inlay, pau ferro fretboard… didn’t really WANT to buy a Peavey but it outperformed the Fender American Standard Precision when I was playing through an EDEN WT-300 and an SWR 4×10 w’Horn on top of Big Ben 18" subwoofer.
This is my backup bass, a G&L L-2000 (active, rosewood):
But when I get a mysterious check for $5,000 I am going to get a new Ernie Ball Stingray bass and play it through an Ampeg SVT-classic powering an 8×10 cab.
Whew!
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Dec 24, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Yea but when he sucks he really really sucks
and it lasts for a few weeks.
I think this is why media and other fans have a bad opinion of him becasue they watch him only a few games a year and he might really suck in one of them so they always have that in the back of their minds.
Don’t get me wrong I love they guy but I think that might have something to do with it.
Funny, espn the magazine said this like 2 months ago
“Now it’s time to retire the myth of the clutch QB. We looked at it and there is no year to year correlation when the game is on the line. Good QBs are generally good QB’s in the clutch – meaning their QB ratings stay relatively the same…bad QB’s such as Kyle Orton remain bad QBs”
Of course there are exceptions to every rule and that exception is Manning. No, not Peyton – Eli. He’s been the only active QB whose passer rating has been higher in the clutch for five straight seasons. The difference is very small in most of those seasons except last year when Eli was insanely clutch ( 132.6 rating vs. 86.4 rating overall). But , besides Eli Manning, clutch QB’s don’t exist….."
hello espn nice to know ya’
In this season, I have to say, the MVP goes to Peyton
Mediocre defence, terrible running game, without Peyton, the Colts go nowhere and nowhere fast.
Eli deserves votes, people say he’ll never be as good as Peyton, and I disagree. It’s too early to say that, this is the first season where the Giants have been more of a passing team.
Without Eli, this team would likely be no better than 5-11
"We're only going to score 17 points?"
huge eli fan
but i feel like another member of that draft class, big ben, is in the same situation
if they make the playoffs it is very similar in that he would have had to carry his team there
by Ahmad Bradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
I feel comfortable saying Eli will never be as good as Peyton
but that’s only because I feel comfortable saying Eli will never be one of the 3 greatest QB’s in the history of the game. And that’s just fine – he’s a fantastic QB who will have a good shot at Canton when all is said and done. There’s no shame in not being better than Johnny Unitas or Joe Montana or, now, Peyton Manning.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
or Tom Brady
or Dan Marino or John Elway
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Dec 23, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Brady??
Don’t let the 3 rings confuse you. Tom Brady is the purest definition of a system QB as there’s ever been. That was proven when Matt Cassel flourished under Belichek when Brady got hurt. Take Belichek away from Brady and then we’ll see how good he really is. Also, his “legend” is owed to Adam Vinatieiri being able to make clutch kicks. If AV3 misses those kicks, Brady doesn’t start in 2002 and he’s still Bledsoe’s back up. Brady is good but will always be overrated in my opinion.
by sexyscottish on Dec 23, 2009 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
that's logical swiss cheese
Tom Brady won three superbowls with piss-poor receivers and average or below average RBs… he’s a great defense reader, audible caller, decision maker, and thrower. Matt Cassell didn’t “flourish” in 2008. Compare his numbers to what the same team did in the previous year… you know, the year Brady shattered a ton of passing records because he finally had 2 pro receivers?
If, If, If. Yes, if field goals were not a part of football, lots of history would be changed. How’s AV doing in Indy? You don’t hear his name much, nor Cassell in KC. You can say it’s the system and I can say it’s Brady, and neither one of us has much validity, because it’s both. A lot of haters like to try to pin the Pats’ success on Bill OR Tom when the truth is obviously a combination of the two.
When all is said and done, Tom Brady will merit serious consideration as a top 5 quarterback of all time. If he gets ANOTHER ring, there’s really no question. Rings HAVE to be considered a major part of the resume, which is why Dan Fouts and Warren Moon don’t get top billing in these conversations, nor does Dan Marino. If Peyton Manning hadn’t gotten the Bears in the Superbowl he’d be the Ernie Banks of football: Best at his position, forgotten with no championships.
Modern Era: (post-1980)
Top-tier: Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, John Elway
Second-tier: Dan Marino, Dan Fouts, Brett Favre, Warren Moon, Troy AIkman (sorry)
Ten seasons from tier two and at least one ring from tier one: Eli
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Dec 24, 2009 8:06 AM EST up reply actions
An article:
Accuracy: Montana completed 63.2 percent of his passes for his career. Brady has completed 63 percent, including nearly 69 percent this season.(2007)
MOBILITY
Where Brady fits: Panelists did not rank Brady among the elite in this category, but neither did they consider it a weakness.
WORK ETHIC
Where Brady fits: Preparation is one of his strengths. Sixth-round draft choices generally don’t become future Hall of Famers without putting in effort, experts said.
TWO-MINUTE MASTERS
Where Brady fits: He is the only quarterback in NFL history to lead game-winning drives in the fourth quarters of three Super Bowls. That includes two winning drives in the final two minutes.
ROUTE OWNERSHIP
Where Brady fits: Brady throws every route with accuracy,
MECHANICS
Where Brady fits: Experts struggled to find a quarterback with better mechanics. Brady clearly ranks among the very best.
INTELLIGENCE
Where Brady fits: Experts gave Brady high marks in this category, but he has plenty of company.
ACCURACY
Where Brady fits: Experts ranked him among the five most accurate passers; some thought he might be the most accurate in NFL history.
The thing you’re forgetting is that before Peyton picked up a full 08 season on Brady, this was mostly a Brady-dominated conversation.
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Dec 24, 2009 8:12 AM EST up reply actions
I disagree
the Colts have one of the better defences in the league – just look at how many points they have given up – they regularly hold teams to under 20 points.
No running game – that is by design not because it is terrible.
It is alos hard to say if the Chargers and the Giants would have better or worse records if te QB trade never happened.
by G Fan in England on Dec 23, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly..
their D is not that bad…its good even.
Mathis and Freeney are what Osi and Tuck should be. Any D that generates a pass rush with its front 4..is automatically a good D.
And yea..they merely run the ball to put it in the other team’s brain. Also, to make third downs a bit more manageable.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
I disagree
Indy is 5th in the league in scoring defense, but only 0.2 point/game ahead of 2 other teams. They are 17th in the league in total defense. They might be slightly above average, but they are not one of the better defensive units in the league. They just gave up 31 points to David Garrard. Yards per play is the best indication of how a defense performs, but I can’t find stats for that anywhere.
As for their running game, their leading rusher, Joseph Addai, average 3.7 yards per carry. That is a terrible average. The worst in the league for someone with as many carries as he has. It isn’t be design to be a terrible rushing team, they just are.
This is a 5-7 team, at best, without Peyton Manning.
Found it...and they are better than I thought
Indy is 6th in the league in yards per play. Their defense is better than I gave them credit for. Maybe it is just because I watched them get shredded by Jacksonville.
I forgive you
The key stat is really yards per point.
We do not give up much yardage, but it is boom or bust as the other team either goes 80 yards for a TD or goes 3 and out. For example we give up 26 points a game on only 300 yards or just over 10 yards a point – other teams you need 20 plus yards per point scored.
by G Fan in England on Dec 23, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
The problem with that
Is that it doesn’t take field position into account. The reason we don’t give up a lot of yards is because Feagles can’t punt the ball but 30 yards anymore. So other teams only have to drive 50 or 60 yards to score their TD.
A good example is if our offense fumbles and defense recovers on the 5 yard line. If they punch it in for a TD from there, it kills your average.
The reason that yards per play is a better indication is that field position doesn’t matter. It gives an overall value to how the defense played throughout the game, regardless of turnovers and field position.
So which is better or worse
a team that gives up 4 50 yard plays in a game for TD’s or a team that gives up 4 ten play 50 yard drives for TD’s.
Using your stat you would say the second example is a better defence because it took 40 plays as compared to 4 whereas my stat says both defences are the same.
Field position over a game tends to even out and short fields lead to different playcalls which effect yards per play. After all a team gets the ball on the opp 5 and scores on 3rd down that is an average of 1.6 yards a play – that distorts the average as well.
by G Fan in England on Dec 23, 2009 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
Coltson D
Yards per play 6th
Yards per rush 12th
Yards per pass 4th
Using my stat
the Colts are first with 19.08 yards required per point (248 points on 4731 yards) and the Giants are last with 12.5 yards per point (342 points on 4276 yards).
So we have given up more points on less yards than the Colts.
Yes you say field position, but Eli has only 11 Int’s and we have given up just two return TD’s.
The problem is we give up too many TD’s as opposed to FG’s.
by G Fan in England on Dec 23, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
Heck
Cleveland has given up 5,510 yards but only 349 points – so 1,200 more yards but only 7 more points!
by G Fan in England on Dec 23, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Quarterback play around the league is up
Eli is having a fantastic season. His best season so far. And yet, he isn’t even going to make the Pro Bowl in the NFC. The QB play across the board is off the charts. Favre, Rodgers, and Brees are all putting up ridiculous numers and have QB Ratings of over 100. Romo and McNabb have been playing well and have great numbers as well.
The AFC is stocked also with Peyton, Brady, Big Ben, and Phillip Rivers.
I think Peyton is unquestionably the MVP of the league. He plays on a team with an average defense, terrible running game, and brand new receivers. Other teams know that they have to shut Peyton down and yet they can’t do it. He is awesome.
Peyton is not human.
I’m glad to be a fan during his era because this is history in the making. He is the greatest QB to ever throw a football.
And he makes really cool commercials - even better when Eli and Cooper are in them
by the_iowa_hawkeye on Dec 23, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
the new one
with amy sedaris is gold, jerry…gold!
The simpsons clip with the 3 in it
is gold.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
I've missed that one - I'll have to look it up
by the_iowa_hawkeye on Dec 23, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
http://www.hulu.com/watch/114990/the-simpsons-keep-away#s-p1-sr-i1
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
Eli has been fantastic this season
I actually almost wrote a little “Eli for MVP” spiel in my upcoming Giants News & Notes (which I wrote before seeing this), but I was getting too wordy and decided to save it for next week. Good to see Ed made the case for me.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
For anyone to suggest Eli is overrated is absurb!
It’s no secret Eli is the highest paid QB. Is Eli the best QB? Of course not. The amount he’s paid on his contract is cyclical. Once Brees’ and Peyton’s contract come up for renewal they will surpass Eli.
Regarding top QBs in the league. There’s only 2 QBs I’d take over Eli. Peyton and Brees. Brady is a few years older play with his severe knee injury from last season. Yes, I’ll take Eli over Brady. Palmer has yet to return to the level he was playing prior to his knee injury.
Boom.
And enough can;t be said that Eli matched Brady in their first meeting..and surpassed him in the more important 2nd meeting.
Also…Eli never had a Moss and Welker.
Lets see how good Eli gets as his young WR (Hixon is 24………..) mature.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with all of this
Give Manning another year of continuity, and the receivers having another year to learn the playbook and have chemistry with Eli, and they’ll just get even better.
Smith, Nicks, Manningham. There’s maybe two 3 receiver tandems I’d take over them.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
Don't forget
Hixon..that’s a pretty good 4th WR.
Barden and Beckum also will have a future.
That’s US Army caliber stock of weaponry.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know if Hixon will be here next year
I’m sure TC will look to make Barden the #4 WR and Hixon isn’t exactly the best return man in the league
by mclaren_is_the_best on Dec 24, 2009 8:51 AM EST up reply actions
big ben?
i think ben and eli are both overrated
i love eli but i think i might just rather ben—-he has an extra sb and has become consistently fantastic.
by Ahmad Bradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
IDK about big ben
hes been real sloppy with the interceptions this year, hes had a few in the red zone.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Dec 23, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Awesome article Ed..I agree 110%
I love that line from Celizic: “And the reality is that the only way the Giants are getting into the playoffs is if Eli puts them on his shoulders and drags them there”. Heck he has been carrying them ever since the Saints game, all year for that matter.
No.
Tynes is good in the clutch..Carney, nyet.
Tynes is the best the Giants can get right now…
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
Yep we're better off with "Tums" Tynes...
He actuall reached the end-zone, and the 5 yard line on two kick-offs…The rest were the usual dismal Pepto-Bismal kicks.
id love carney back
pair him with a kickoff specialist like the guy the ravens released, release tynes, and we are golden
by Ahmad Bradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
Like I posted earlier,
check the stats. The only thing Carney has over Tynes is that he is 6 for 6 on FGs 20-29 yards and Tynes is 10 for 12 from the same distance. Carney is not a fg god and you have to spend another roster spot on a kickoff specialist. Percentage wise, he is worse than Tynes. Check my earlier post, I listed a couple of the stats. Two things to consider, no chance in hell he makes a long FG and you waste a roster spot on another kicker. Seems like a waste.
Let's not start this
old argument again. Check some stats before you start wishing for 45 year old Carney. Some reasons to appreciate what we have in Tynes..both kickers have missed FGs this season (Tynes 5, Carney 4). Tynes is the winner here because he has attemped 14 more. Tynes- 26 for 31, Carney is 13 for 17. Tynes has a long of 52 yards. I don’t think TC would trust Carney with a 50+ yard attempt. Carney has missed 2 XPs. Tynes is 44 for 44. Carney has missed 1 FG in his last 10 games. Carney has missed a FG in 3 of the last 5 games that he has attempted a FG. The only area Carney has done better in is FGs 20-29 yards. Carney is 6 for 6 and Tynes is 10 for 12 with those misses coming very early in the season.
Check the tale of the tape. This isn’t much of a fight. Stick with Tynes.
Tynes
does have a hamstring injury, so we will see. Overall, I like Tynes. He will just make you crazy once in a while. Kinda like Gilbride. Kinda like TC. Kinda like Eli. Kinda like this whole crazy team we love.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 23, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
peter king
had eli in his top 5 MVP candidates for the entire first half of the season when the giants were dominating.
since then, not a mention. eli is having a monster year and keeps this team in it every single week. its a travesty he’s not mentioned.
He hates McNabb too...
McNabb..like Eli, had an injury that sapped some (more for Eli actually..) his production.
Its OK.
MVP of the regular season…all in all, is irrelevant.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
he really does
have a giants bias. his MMQB tuesday edition is supposed to cover the MNF game and any lingering storylines. this week’s edition was all about holmgren, which i’ll accept, that’s a big story.
and…tony romo. are you kidding me? not even a mention of the ONLY game the night before.
He loves Romo
Peter King is an idiot — just because he has a semi “in” with coaches and players, he thinks he is a football god. I read MMQB every week, and his bias is all over the place. He loves the stars on big city teams and has no respect for small market teams.
Just look how he downplayed two Monstrous achievements for a storied franchise like the Browns. They might suck now – but Jerome Harrison breaking the best runningback in the games record of yards in a game. And Josh Cribbs securing his title as the most dominant returner in the games history with his 8th return TD.
by bigtrueblue on Dec 23, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
Eli
I’ll admit, I was a big Eli doubter. “Consistancy!” That was always my complaint even during our Superbowl run. Manning was always so frustrating. One week he’d play the best clutch quarterbacking in the League, and the next he’d throw five interceptions and miss wide open targets. However I’ve noticed these days comes further and further apart, and ther latter extreme almost completely vanishing. I’m having trouble picking any game from recent memory where Eli really contributed to our loss. Most of the time when we lose its because our Defense/Special Teams or an inabiliity to click offensively. I’ll admit it, I was too hard on the kid. When you see the name Manning you want perfection, but its nice because we get prety darn close to it.
The thing I love about Eli is his brain. When the guy gets his time to stand back and read a defense, he can pick it apart. That’s one reason I wish our offense would switch to a “two minute offense” style. It becomes hard for Eli to do everything he wants to do at the line when the play clock is down to 3 – 4 seconds. We saw this be a problem earlier in the year when we would get hit with frequent Delay of Game penalties. Still, the kid is brilliant, and I really wonder what will happen when this team ages. Smith is still young, Nicks… my god… is amazing as just a Rookie. If Manningham can learn his routes and how to catch well, he’s a devil in the open field, and if Barden can get up to speed then we could have another young weapon at our disposal. That’s not even including Hixon, Boss, Bradshaw, etc.
Manning is a great QB, and I’m proud to have him as my QB. League MVP, maybe, but Giants MVP yeah, no doubt. I just wish there were one picture of Eli throwing the ball where his left wrist wasn’t so limp…
LOL
on the left wrist, which is just his throwing style. I also admire his smarts, but I think his toughness is vastly underrated, probably due to his lack of demonstrative emotional Rivers-like outbursts. He is the little engine that can while his brother and Brees are drag racers. That little engine, just like the Giants just won’t quit…..
Eli is well on his way
to a hall of fame career — I truly believe he will deliver one or two more rings and a season MVP but the MVP will not come this year UNLESS he miraculously gets us to the superbowl. In which case he would get season MVP and probably Governor of New York.
that's a bold statement
not that i whole-heartedly disagree with it. but eli’s in his 6th year now, how much longer do we expect him to play at a high level?
What year's Peyton in?
I expect Eli to break the consecutive game streak after Peyton retires after beating Favre’s record.
Ok, maybe not that long, but I expect him to last us a while
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
Eli just keeps getting better.
Every year..better.
He’s now got actual weapons (Plax, Toomer, Shockey…not this good, no way).
They’re young too and gonna be here a while.
As long as they keep that OL in top shape (Beatty is an EXCELLENT pass blocker…), they’ll be very good.
Did I mention that Beatty is gonna be an excellent LT for the next 10? Well..Will Beatty is gonna be EXCELLENT as a LT.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
Well Peyton is 5 years older
and he is having as good a year as ever — npo reason to think Eli can’t follow the same path
Eli
has many, many terrific seasons ahead of him.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 23, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
I agree that the small faction of “haters” needs to wake up. This is like my brother(an Eagles fan) telling me year after year how much McNabb sucks cause they got eliminated. It’s the same thing, the Eagles would not be there if it wasn’t for Donovan.
Have we all forgotten the Dave Browns, Kanells, Grahams, and bad Collins’ seasons?
Eagles fans seem to forget about the
glory days of the Detmer’s.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
definitely the Giants MVP
Definitely not one of the top QBs in the league but who is most valuable to their team? Good point Ed. I think the value factor makes Eli a top-5 candidate, however still not the man. Frankly the Colts might be fighting for the playoffs without Peyton, so he’s damn valuable too…
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Dec 23, 2009 12:28 PM EST reply actions
I agree too, the team MVP, and presumably never a league MVP
Also, Ed does make a good case for the league, but Eli will probably never put up the gaudy statistics (as you indicated, a top QB) like some other players. The league MVP seems to be driven by numbers and not by intangibles, which Eli does possess.
Just for example, in ‘97, Favre and Barry Sanders were co-MVP’s. The Packers were 13-3 and reached the SB, while Favre had 3800+ yards and 35 TD. The Lions were 9-7 (making the playoffs) and Sanders had over 2000 yards, which BTW, he had 14 consecutive 100+ yard games.
So whoever is involved in the voting process, will take biased convictions of what you have done on the field with newsworthy attention. In this case, as under-appreciated Eli seems to be nationwide, he doesn’t stand a chance, though, i know better!
Eli will get his shots..
The Giants are gonna be a pass first team going forward.
He’ll put up more numbers.
The Giants win a lot..he’ll get his due.
He’s gonna throw for 4000 yards this year. The voters will put that in mind going forward.
If the GIants are 12-4 one year..Eli’s creeping around 4000 yards….he’ll win.
Never say never with this guy. He’s not done getting better.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with the Giants passing more in the future, so long as KG is here
So that would help Eli in the cause if he is consistent enough in the call of duty. I guess for Eli to be recognized, he will really have to wow them with a 4500 yard and close to 40 TD’s, to solidify a real consideration. I just think that as long as Brady, Brees and Peyton are still around, they’ll take all the accolades and will be revered as such. They receive the attention while at the time, some make excuses for Eli. It’s not fair, but a reality!
Though my statement as Eli has no chance, it may seem firm, but i’m flexible. At the very least, Eli needs his brother (a friggin robot) to retire first, then we’ll see! lol
Peyton's shadow
How tough does it have to be to have grown up in Peyton’s shadow and still be eclipsed by him? But even more than that, think about what kind of pressure the next generation of Mannings will be under. Neither Eli nor Peyton have any kids right now, but I understand Cooper has a couple of boys – the oldest named Archie. Ouch…no expectations there…
by the_iowa_hawkeye on Dec 23, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
he's in his shadow...
as far as the GOAT QB’s go….really, Eli has no chance of surpassing that.
…yet, they are tied at 1 for SB’s.
That’s really all that counts (I’m sure Peyton will admit this too).
So, as far as being in his shadow and eclipsed? Not really.
If Eli continues his run now, and gets even better…he’ll be enshrined in the Hall one day too.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 24, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
Eli won't win the MVP Ever
Unless he breaks some QB record….. The media still thinks that were a running team only and that is why were putting up points
by mclaren_is_the_best on Dec 23, 2009 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
which is exactly..
why I say once Eli throws for 4000 yards..which he will this year, they’ll recognize what sort of QB he is.
He’ll be in the convo as his WR develop, he racks up more yards..and of course, the Giants have a shinier record at the end of the season.
..not like 12-4 or 14-2 mean anything other then Home field and a bye..
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Pass-first
The reality, Hoot, is that it really isn’t just KG. The whole NFL has become ‘pass-first.’ It’s a big-play league and if you are going to score enough points consistently you have to be able to get those from the passing game.
It’s ‘pass to get the lead, run to protect it’ in the NFL nowadays.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 23, 2009 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with the big play via the passing game
I only referenced KG with the sense that he’s more inclined to pass, than grind it out, like the ’80’s Giants. Personally, when i think of KG, i think of the Oilers days with Moon and Co. I know these Giants aren’t that extreme, but watching some games and the flow of the offense, you get the feeling they are passing more.
As long as they’re consistent however they move the ball, who am i to complain. On the bright side, even if the Giants do pass more, it’s for a good reason. Eli has the young weapons at his disposal and no need, NOT to use them.
Problem is
When you pass too much and you face a team with a great pass rush that it can blow up in your face….hmm…..just like what happened in a certain Super Bowl in Arizona a few years back…..
by mclaren_is_the_best on Dec 24, 2009 8:54 AM EST up reply actions
Well...
there’s a difference between pass entirely too much..and what the Giants do.
I doubt they’ll ever abandon the run like that…no way. The way they are balanced now…its pretty damn balanced for a team that is passing so much.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 24, 2009 9:10 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, the Giants are probably more balanced than the preception
Besides the fact that Eli on average attempts 31 passes a game, it makes you think, how much is too much? We know Martz out in SF is pass happy, but their QB’s average 33/game. Brady, he averages out a bit higher at 37. I suppose these averages could be misleading based on overall team performance. If you don’t have a strong running game, playing from behind etc…
Overall though, i got thinking about how many plays a team averages per game. As for the Giants, somewhere around the 50-60 mark?! If this may be the case, then the other 20-30 plays would be rushing attempts. Though the distribution of pass/rush plays may be swayed by a few depending on the game, but this seems pretty balanced.
And just another thought that may mislead some into thinking we pass more. On occasions, it seems like Eli is dropping back like 4-5 times in a row within a few series!
that '97 split MVP really irritated me...
Sanders had one of the greatest seasons EVER by a RB, and ends up sharing the award because everyone is gaga over Favre. A complete injustice.
by Step up and make big plays on Dec 23, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
Thats kind of my point
Barry is ONLY, a few RB’s to go over 2000 yards in a season on an average team, but Favre has a good year (albeit with a SB appearance) but is it really justified?! Favre’s accomplishments are easier to attain than Barry’s 2000 yards. If you take Barry and his skills out of Detroit for his career, the Lions would seem more miserable.
I agree Eli is the Giants MVP
But hes had some terrible games this year – against the Saints especially….if it wasn’t for that fumble in the end of the first half we could’ve been more competitive against them but I just don’t know what he was thinking on that play and it costs us dearly
by mclaren_is_the_best on Dec 23, 2009 1:20 PM EST reply actions
that fumble was an over agressive
no huddle trying to get points.
It was a missed blocking assignment by AB too. It was Eli’s fault for at least not spiking the ball and stopping the clock.
Eli has had terrible games…yes. Was it cuz he’s not that good..or cuz he had a painful foot injury?
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
Yes he should've spiked it
it cost them 7 very important points which then ruined the 2nd half and they got away from the run
by mclaren_is_the_best on Dec 23, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
yup.
its history tho..
History that if they play them again…will not be repeated.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 23, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Eli is already elite ...
and should keep getting better.
His mental game is A+, and this accuracy (when his foot is not affected by plants and facism) is improved the last two years.
His biggest down-side is a fairly slow and deliberate delivery vs. the quick release guys like Peyton and Marino. Simms had that limitation too, and he didn’t turn out so bad.
darn fascists!!!
Hitler just hates the giants
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
Eli is having a great year
He deserves consideration for MVP, the Giants would be 6-8 or 5-9 without him.
If someone said the Giants ground game would be inconsistent at best, the pass blocking a little shaky, the Defesne would be awful, and the Giants would be starting WR’s with no more than 3 years expierence, a rookie and second year pro that was inactive most of his rookie season to replace their most productive WR in team history and their most talented WR in history most “experts” would say they would be awful and Eli would be sturggling. Well they’re 8-6 fighting for the playoffs and Eli is having a carreer year. I’d say he’s living up to his cotract and whether they make the playoffs or not I think Eli truly has had a breakthough year this year where he’s become more than just a game manager and his future looks real bright. (not that it was not bright before)
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