A Giants fan's plan for 2010
by Ed Valentine on Dec 19, 2009 11:00 AM EST
in News
158 comments
Ben, a relatively new Big Blue View community member who goes by the screen name 'BigTrueBlue,' sent an intriguing e-mail recently. It included a fairly exhaustive, comprehensive, off-season plan for our disappointing New York Giants.
I disagree with several of Ben's suggestions. But, this is a well-thought out piece of work by Ben that lays out the potential free agents the Giants have to make decisions on, and shares some draft thoughts.
It's well worth the time, so give it a look. And I'm sure it will generate some discussion. We all love to play amateur general manager.
The New York Giants - Planning for 2010
|
Quarterback |
Age |
Free Agency Year |
|
28 |
2010 |
What to do: David Carr is going to want to revive his career and I think a team will take a chance on him as a teacher to one of the many rookie QB's coming out of this draft class. I think we look for a veteran in free agency that has some NFL miles under his belt and sign him for a couple years behind Eli.
|
Running Back |
Age |
Free Agency Year |
|
24 |
2010 (RFA) |
What to do: With a young RB core of Jacobs, Bradshaw, Andre Brown and Hedgecock (FB) we really do not need Ware. But with the injury histories of Jacobs, Bradshaw and ABrown keeping a pass catching and versatile back that can help on special teams is a must. Signing Jacobs was a mistake, but the good news is Andre Brown is going to be a great back with healthy size and solid hands.
|
Wide Receiver |
Age |
Free Agency Year |
|
24 |
2010 |
|
|
25 |
2010 |
What to do: The Giants have established their WR core with Manningham, Steve Smith, and Hakeem Nicks. Hixon is an average returner with weak hands and poor body control -- he has been given all the opportunity to succeed and has not proven worthy, let him go. At this point Sinorice Moss is a veteran presence that has really done nothing in his career. With promising training camps the past two years and no actual real production - it's time to let him go. Ramses Barden and Derek Hagan will now have to prove themselves.
|
Offensive Tackle |
Age |
Free Agency Year |
|
26 |
2010 |
What to do: William Beatty has stepped up big in his rookie year. I am not sure about Whimper's versatility, but if he is able to move around the line keep him. If not just let him go.
Beatty is ready to go. He can play at any position on the line. He has even seen time at the TE position in goal line situations. That said Kareem McKenzie is old, constantly fighting injuries, and a penalty liability. At 5 million a year, its time to cut ties with the veteran. The Giants have been able to turn mid-round offensive linemen into productive contributors, and it is definitely worth looking to the draft to continue this trend.
|
Guard |
Age |
Free Agency Year |
|
26 |
2010 |
What to do: Has been a solid backup. Similar situation to Guy Whimper.
|
Defensive End |
Age |
Free Agency Year |
|
David Tollefson |
28 |
2010 (RFA) |
What to do: Although he is relatively old, this guy can flat out play. Having depth at the DE position is key. With Tollefson the Giants have a solid 4-man DE rotation
|
Defensive Tackle |
Age |
Free Agency Year |
|
25 |
2010 |
|
|
32 |
2010 |
What to do: The Giants handcuffed themselves with the signing of Bernard and Canty. Canty is 26 years old and has battled injuries this year -- he will be fine. Canty has played decently these past two weeks against Dallas and the Eagles, he is clearly getting his strength and confidence back. He is also the ideal DE in a 3-4 defense in case the giants ever plan on transitioning. Rocky Bernard has been crippled by injuries and is worth keeping for another year to see if he still has what he had in Seattle. As much as I love Fred Robbins, he has been banged up through his career and while he might have a few years left, I think it is time to say good bye. Resigning Barry Cofield is a must. Additionally Jay Alford is a great DT that hit the IR in preseason. Canty, Bernard, Alford, Cofield could prove to be a top DT rotation.
The Giants and a 3-4 defense might work out. Tuck is a bit under-sized but he is about 275/280 and would be a light DE in a 3-4, but his athleticism would surely make up for it. Kiwanuka and Umenyoria might be best suited as OLB's with Sintim playing 3-4 OLB in college. That rotation would be deadly. Goff and Boley are surely athletic enough and good enough tacklers to play the Inside linebacker spots. The Nose Tackle spot, which is considered the key to the 3-4 could be handled by Cofield who is listed as 6-3, 305, but I think he is a tad ashamed of his true weight. Jay Alford is a bit small as well, but he is athletic enough to make up for it.
|
Outside Linebacker |
Age |
Free Agency Year |
|
32 |
2010 |
What to do: Time for Clint Sintim to play. Chase Blackburn can play all three line backer positions decently and will serve as a solid backup. Danny Clark, you had a solid career - enjoy retirement. Sintim and Michael Boley complement each other well with Sintim being a big LB and Boley being an athletic veteran.
|
Middle Linebacker |
Age |
Free Agency Year |
|
30 |
2011 |
|
|
Chase Blackburn |
26 |
2010 |
What to do: AP is signed through 2011 and is finished -- time to say good bye. Although he is an extremely intelligent linebacker, he lacks the quickness to cover backs and tight ends and therefore is useless in the Giants 4-3 defense. Jonathon Goff has played much better than I expected. He is a smart guy that definitely has a future in the NFL. He is a smart guy that has a knack for reading qbs and being around the ball. He has definitely earned his spot, and will hold on to it for now. Chase Blackburn is a great goal line linebacker that has the versatility to play all three linebacker positions and is a must re-sign.
DRAFT -- A MLB in the draft might not be necessary. The Giants generally don't draft by need so Brandon Spikes may still be a target on our draft board.
|
Cornerback |
Age |
Free Agency Year |
|
25 |
2010 |
What to do: Corey Webster is an elite corner back with great instincts and shut down capabilities. The Gants issues lie with the second cornerback and nickel back. Aaron Ross was a first round pick who has surely not lived up to his expectations, but is only 26 and still has good football left in him. Ross has been playing safety. He is a bit slow out there and is definitely not 100% yet, not to mention he is playing out of position, but I expect him to be playing at a high level come next year when he moves back to corner. Terrell Thomas filled in for Ross and did ok as a cover guy, was active in the run game and had a few interceptions. Thomas is a great athlete and definitely has all the tools, but I fear he lacks the fluidity to become a top cover corner. Undrafted free agent Bruce Johnson is a bit undersized at 5-10 170lbs but his footwork and speed make him a great asset to a team against some speedy receivers. Due to the emergence of Johnson, Dockery seems expendable in his contract year. The core of Webster and Ross with Thomas for bigger receivers and Johnson against quick receivers -- I think the Giants will be fine. They may want to consider looking in the later rounds of the draft for a physical corner back.
|
Safety |
Age |
Free Agency Year |
|
26 |
2010 |
|
|
Michael Johnson |
25 |
2011 |
|
25 |
2011 |
What to do: Kenny Phillips is 22 and has a lot of football ahead of him. I hope he can recover from his injury and be on the field during training camp picking up where he left off. The Giants had him playing at SS although being 6-2 215lbs. I think with his speed and coverage ability he is better off playing the Free Safety position. Michael Johnson was a nice surprise in the 7th round and is definitely an above average Free Safety - but if Michael Johnson is playing, that means Phillips is playing out of position and is not being utilized correctly. Rouse is actually a very interesting prospect as he is a big kid that with a little time in the weight room could have played some linebacker. His problem is he lacks the agility to be a play maker in the passing game. Also, his name is oddly similar to cornerback Aaron Ross. C.C. Brown is an elite tackler with almost linebacker tackling skills. As a strong safety his main priority is to be the running games final level of protection. His coverage skills are atrocious -- if I was the opposing team's coach I would send receivers deep at him all game. Bottom line here is we have four extremely hyped out of college and talented safeties that could play on many teams around the league. We just lack a true SS that can be a factor in coverage, cover deep, while being a force in the run/screen game. I think we let Brown go, keep Rouse and Johnson around and then look to the draft in the early rounds for a true strong safety.
|
Special Teamer |
Age |
Free Agency Year |
|
31 |
2013 |
|
|
43 |
2010 |
What we need: Feagles, you had an incredible run. You deserve to be in the hall of fame and you were an integral part of the Giants success during the past few years. I am sure your behind the door leadership was much appreciated by the coaching staff. You may still be the best at pinning the ball in the 20, but your leg strength is atrocious. I wonder if Madden gave you a 98 for accuracy and 50 for leg strength. I remember watching a Michigan football game and watching their punter (who looked like a good athlete that could make a tackle if need be) kick a 52 yard punt and put it out of bounds at the 4 yard line. I am sure there are better punters, but we should definitely spend a 4th-7th round pick on a punter. Might be worth using our 7th round pick to draft a kicker for some healthy competition with Tynes in training camp.
The Giants lack an elite kick returner. While it is extremely difficult to find a good kick returner, I think there value is generally underappreciated with the thinking that many guys can be good kick returners. But look at guys like Josh Cribbs, Devin Hester, Tedd Ginn, Johnny Lee Higgins, Sproles, Leon Washington, Welker and Percy Harvin these guys constantly get their team good field position. Returners are generally difficult to scout but if a guy s like Wes Welker and Josh Cribbs can go undrafted I'm sure Reese and Co. can find a quality kick returner.
Summary:
Cut -- Carr, Hixon, SMoss, Booth Or Whimper (maybe both), Robbins, Clark, Pierce, Dockery, Brown, Feagles.
Re-sign- Blackburn, Cofield, Tollefson, Booth or Whimper (maybe both), Ware.
FA- Veteran QB and Punter
Draft needs in order -- OL, LB, Punter, KR, Safety, DT, Cornerback, Kicker
0 recs |
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We have a lot of picks in the draft.
I think that Reese moves up in the draft, for sure. Maybe secure a second 3rd round pick or even a 2nd round pick if he doesn’t move up in the 1st.
We actually don't
have any extra picks. Just one in each round.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 19, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
An extraordinary work of staggering genius.
I agree with a lot of it. I’d keep Carr if we can and Hix unless we nail a KR in the draft. Some mugwumping on Boothe and Whimper. If we get rid of both it certainly influences priorities, making OL higher than I would (although I’d go for an elite OLT in a heartbeat. ) I’d add Wilkinson to the cuts. We shoud be able to get a decent punter with a lower round pick. I’d assign a higher priority to strengthening the D, although the arguments put forward for BTB’s priorities are impressive.
BTW, someone wanted to know more about Dryer. (I can’t find the posting.) He looked Clint Eastwood stringy, 6’[6" 225. Had blazing speed and was a fantastic pass rusher. I associate his build with the old-fashioned California physical culture/surfer type.If he lifted weights, hid did light weight/high reps not heavy/light. I loved the guy for his off beat personality (he lived in an RV when he was with theGiants.) He hated the east coast, the Maras loved him, so let him go back to CA to play for the Rams(a decision I didn’t like).
His TV series was, “Hunter,” and it ran about ‘83-90. Except for his height, he sure didn’t look like a football player in the series. He made all-pro a couple of times, played 10+ years and holds a record for scoring 2 safeties in one game.
If Carr isn't too hot on the FA market
We could bring him back at a reasonable rate. Servicable short term backups are hard to find, and i think Carr likes it here?! He wouldn’t argue that he’s had quite an easy job for the last two years and collecting a decent check too! lol
Oh, and Dryer, it might have been me? Bobbi referenced him in the Beatty story about smaller guy’s etc… I never saw him play, and you moreless summed up what Bobbi had to say about him. And the TV show that i knew he was on, which slipped my mind, yes, it was Hunter! lol
carr
is shell shocked. there’s no way he could be a starter for another team in this league. he’s probably a better backup option than any other team has, save maybe billy volek…if we can keep him we should.
Carr.
He will want a shot. He was the first pick, and is definitely deserving of starting on many teams in this league.
Nicely done
Disagree on Bernard – cut him.
Even though personnel might fit I am leery of switching the D for a 3-4.
Thought safeties were pretty interchangable on Giants D but agree would rather see Kenny Phillips play FS. Let Johnson play out of position at SS.
Can Rousse play linebacker?
But a thoughtful review.
Safeties
They are used interchangeably. They generally don’t switch sides of the field.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 19, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Bernard and Robbins
At this point, there is no room for hoping they can rebound from their dismal seasons. They seemingly have hit their shelf life expiration dates as being effective anymore. I would re-sign Cofield with something reasonable and hope Alford rebounds nicely. Then, preferrably draft a DT with athleticism that can contribute in a solid rotation.
Rouse was a rover in college, kind of a LB/S tweener. At 6-4 225, he’s big enough.
I like the idea of Rouse as a rover.
Is there hope for Rocky. It doesn’t look that way. I wouldn’t shed tears at his departure.
We need a DT
that can occupy space.
Someone who can get a push, and required double, or even triple teams.
I don’t know who that person would be, but it sure as hell would make Osi and Tuck look better
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
I say convert Rouse to LB and
move Sintim to D-End and let him rush, that’s what he does best. Rouse is a crappy cover saftey but might be a good coverage LB covering RB’s or average TE’s. He can blitz well and stop the run.
I’m half joking about this but in third down situations it might not be a bad D
half-joking
the way this D covers TE’s and RB’s, that doesn’t seem like a joke to me – it’s a great idea.
Draft targets
I say go for a defensive lineman and cornerback in the first two rounds. Can Kenny Phillips come back next year? How bad is his injury?
I have not been impressed with any of the defensive back play. Corey Webster has been victimized many times and I thought that he was our best remaining d-back. No pressure from the d-line doesn’t help.
by scarlet knight on Dec 19, 2009 12:21 PM EST reply actions
Not bad.
in regards to boothe vs. whimper….at least boothe has set foot on the field. whimper is in i believe his 4th year and has contributed nothing. I’m not sold on either but i think if i were to cut one right now it would be whimper w/out question.
also…in regards to hixon. Not a top 4 WR but a good ST guy. Why cut hixon and than draft a KR? I say keep him. and get rid of Sinorice Moss ASAP.
in regards to switching to a 3-4…I would not even want to consider that option w/ Sheridan around. we would need a proven DC who could do that…so that would be hard to even imagine at this point in time.
DT’s….agree, bring cofield back. Cut Bernard, pray Alford can bounce back (but looking at our other guy who’s had knee surgery…don’t hold your breath). Canty IMO is still a very big ? mark. I may opt for bringing Robbins back another year.
also remember we signed Jeremy Clark back to our PS who i though play very well in pre season.
we also signed DJ Johnson at CB, who has great potential…so CB may not be a need for us.
In regards to DE…i think you can lump Osi and Kiwi into that list as well. For a guy who was highly sought after Kiwi hasn’t shown much to back it up. Osi looks like he’s done or his Knee surgery has really effecting him. May be wise for the giants to look to move 1 or both of these guys if they can get a good deal.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
Kiwi has been a big dissapointment
He’s average not awful a legit starter but by no means an impact player.
I think Kiwi is better than
he gets credit for. He’s the kind of player that doesn’t put up big sack numbers but plays the run well and tends get a lot of pressures that other guys clean up.
the way the Giants draft...
they alwasy want to take the best athlete on the board….regardless of what their needs or wants are.
My problem w/ that is why than are our special teams looking like a bunch of misfits.
Blackburn who used to be a beast sems invisible. DeOssie who was suppossed to be a special teams “killer” seems like he’s not even playing out there?!?! Where is Brian Kehl since breaking his finger? Beckum? Rouse? Dockery? With exception to Hagan no one has been consistently making plays for us on ST.
I remember when the giants had Reyna Thompson….and even though he had a girly name, boy would he make you pay if you didn’t signal for a fair catch.
Where did these guys go? are we picking the wrong guys? is it a fluke? Our other team’s “athletes” just better than ours?
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
It's a mystery
Same goes for the O-line and the the d-line. Same players, not the same production.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 19, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
Good questions, andiamo. A lot of the same guys, but not the same results on ST.The
Ks haven’t helped.
BTW, are you watchingt tonight’s fights? I still haven’t decided. Pavlik reminds me of Monzon. Hops made him look like an amateur. Hard to fight a guy who thinks D first. That’s what will make Manny/Floyd interesting. Can F exhaust M’s patience and forcr him into mistakes?
not watching the fight...
but I would think Pavlik would win b/c this guy espino is no hopkins…hopkins just fought the perfect fight against pavlik
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
3-4
makes zero sense. We have many bodies with some talent on the Dline. Hopefully, the injured, Coffield, Osi, Tuck, Canty, Alford will return at full strength next season. On the D-line we have plenty of players.
Conversely, at linebacker we are extremely week. We have one above average linebacker in Boley. The others are either role players or young. Coming up with 4 linebackers in a 3-4 is a huge task. Converting Osi and Kiwi to linebacks is a bg risk. One that I’m not willing to risk an entire season.
I’m surprised that suggestion has been made more than once.
i'll agree with you
based on what we have, it would be a daunting task to come up with 4 LBs that can play in a 3-4.
but, i won’t say i’m that surprised about the suggestions — because unfortunately i think your statement:
“we have many bodies with some talent on the D line”
should be changed to:
“we have many bodies who used to have talent on the D line” :(
sinorice moss is still on the team?
who knew?
i agree that this is a very nice, well thought out post that ben obviosuly spent a lot of time on. kudos dude.
i also agree that its a real conundrum regarding our O and D lines. they went from areas of real strength that we hopefully wouldn’t have to focus too many resources on in the future, to total head scratchers with no one knowing what the future will hold. despite the uneven play of some veterans, i still like the depth of our d-line. upgrading the pass rush is crucial since the play of our linebackers and secondary depend on at least SOME pressure, but hopefully that can be remedied by several players regressing back UP to the mean of where they were a year or two ago. i dont know how you strategize for that though, hence the conundrum.
i dont want to look too far into the draft regading needs and what not with the playoff hoeps still alive, albeit slim, but an upgrade at LB is definitely in order. pierce was smart and tough and gave his all, but i agree that he looked a step behind the opposing offenses this year and part of last. chase is a quality ‘utility’ LB but we need a standout somewhere in the backers corp.
good news is it could be a lot worse, and i am optimistic. in reese we trust is probably too strong a slogan for me now, but i have faith in the organization. tomorrow’s game will also help let us know what we should be focusing our time on, the final playoff push or the draft.
Lets hope that when gut check time comes again the Mets will pass it with flying colors.
One thing that is tough at this point, and trying to figure out
Is the injury prognosis at key positions!
RB Andre Brown is out with an achilles injury. What skills he could’ve brought in the future will now hinge on his recovery. Afterall, our RB’s as a whole seem to be injured in some manner!
DT Jay Alford is out with an ACL. Now this seems tricky given Bernard and Robbins play. He could become integral in a solid DL rotation if he recovers. Regardless, we must make some kind of move here to protect ourselves!
LB Antonio Pierce with his neck. Even prior to this injury, it is apparent that his skills are diminishing. Though Goff is getting valuable playing time, is he the long term answer? It’s fair to say that this is a tough one to answer!
S Kenny Phillips and his knee? Will it ever get to the point of being well enough to play at a high level? Who knows at this point!
Overall, it should be recognized that 2.5 out of those 4 positions have taken a hit with these players departures. Sometimes, all it takes is time, but when there are no answers, it may become too late!
SM seems to be one of the bigger busts in Giants history
I was hoping he would at least do well as a return man.
Disagree on Hixon.
He’s not bad. I’d rather keep Hixon over Hagen.
Other than that, good stuff for the most part. The Giants don’t have the horses on the D-Line to play 3-4, so dead that.
There’s some good punters and kickers in this draft. The Giants MUST get a punter and kicker.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
Nor do they have the LB's for a 3-4
I like Hixon over Hagan but remember some team might offer Hixon more than what he’s worth (Raiders, Redskins come to mind) so they might have to stick with Hagan instead.
true.
also…they may scour the waiver wire for one.
Or…this mystery WR who becomes our kick returner…takes their place.
They kinda have the LB’s. BOley and Goff are tall and rangy type LB’s, they could be the MLB’s. Kiwi and Sintim could be the OLB’s. Actually…for the LB’s sake, 3-4 would be the way to go.
The LB’s IMO for the 3-4 is not the problem….its that their 2 best players on defense are Tuck and Osi..and they don’t fit the 3-4, if you throw them in there you could sap their production less than it already is.
They have no big, strong fact (330+lbs) DL’s. None. That’s the problem. You need at least 2-3 of these behemoths. They don’t have that and it’d be tough to get all at once.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 19, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
Thats not the kind of LB's we need in a 3-4
the ILB’s have to be real strong and be able to take on guards / centers head on
by mclaren_is_the_best on Dec 19, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
I dunno about that.
If your 2DE’s and NT are any good, the LB’s don’t have to fight with any body.
That’s the whole point of having gigantic DE’s and NT.
the ILB’s are there for coverage, the OLB’s for rushing the passer. Of course you change it up..but generally that’s the case.
Goff is not small nor is he a weakling either. Don’t underrate this guy (I think we’re staying with a 4-3 anyway.. and he’s gonna be a damn good one).
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 19, 2009 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
Don't know about that Free
The purpose of the oversized DE’s in the 3-4 is to allow the OLB’s to rush the QB more effectively like the Giants did with George Martin and LT. The NT has to be huge becasue he’s lining up over 3 guys essentially and he has to be able to occupy at least two guys/Gaps (Center, Guard). The ILB’s have to have size and the abilty the shed blocks and still make tackles in the run game were as MLB’s in the 4-3 are usually running free or taking on fullbacks. Unlike playing against the 4-3 when it’s rare an O-lineman gets a free realese on the MLB one of the guards will always get a shot on one of the ILBs in a 3-4 and thats a big challange for a lot of guys who have never had to do that.
Harry Carson was the best 3-4 ILB of his day and he was a converted D-Lineman from College. Mike Vrable who played both OLB and ILB for the Pats was a D-End in College playing 3-4 ILB is not an easy transition. Jonathan Vilma who is pretty damn good and a very smart guy did not make that transition well with the Jets when Mangini came in but has played a lot better with the Saints back in the 4-3. Hell Ray Lewis struggled big time his first year when the Ravens converted to a 3-4 and he’s the best MLB of this era. With all of that said Sam Mills at all of 5 “7” was a quality ILB in the 3-4 for the Saints.
I guess my point is guys that are better than Goff or Boley have struggled to make an adjustment to a 3-4. Not saying it can’t bee done but I don’t think the Giants drafted or signed those two for that purpose.
no doubt.
I’m not saying any would excel in it.
Its all about scheme and the person.
These guys have always played in a certain scheme (probably why Canty’s stunk so far), so switching would take time.
All I’m saying is they are athletes. By no means small either (we aren’t talking about 6"0 230lbs of Derrick Brooks…).
Goff is 6’2(I’ve seen 6’4…) 240. Boley is 6"3 240.
For comparison, James Farrior is 6"2 235. Lawerence Timmons is 6"3 245.
They can do it.
It all depends on who’s in front.
Also..the 2 OLB’s on the outside would make up for a lot if they were good…
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 19, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
I think we agree they need a NT to Convert
and Casey Hamton from Pitt is the only FA availbe. He’s in his 30’s and will comanding a lot of money becasue there are so few true NT’s out their.
2 Quality Nose Tackles in the draft.
Dan Williams of Tennessee and Terrence Cody of ’Bama.
Both of those guys are projected to fall in the 20-32 pick range of the first round.
Dan Williams would be a good pick regardless
he’s very big..but not gigantic.
Cody is a fat pile of uselessness…he’s not a good pick no matter the defensive scheme.
I’d draft Williams if he was available. I don’t think it would signal they’re switching to a 3-4 either (the only thing that would, would be a DC that runs it).
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 19, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
NT is key in 3-4
The NT is has to occupy space. He’s must take on 2 or 3 blockers. The Center and guards.
Ed, are you listening?
The topic of returning to the 3-4 defense is being discussed here and I didn’t even bring it up! LOL.
But seriously I believe the 3-4 is the right defense for the kind of offenses we face these days. I admit it would be a task to come up with a nose tackle strong enough to shut down the middle and the correct compliment of linebackers and linemen but it just might be worth the effort.
I’m going to do some research and make my case in a fan post.
by giant fan since 57 on Dec 19, 2009 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
the problem
with 3-4 is the personnel to run it is hard to find. Much easier to find a DE than a pass rushing LB and you need two of those for a 3-4 to be any good.
I can't hear you
I’m not listening … 3-4? What 3-4? I’m gonna have to ban anyone who favors it. LOL!! In reality, I just don’t think we have the personnel to play it.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 19, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
If we could find
a great nose tackle and the correct linebacking crew would you favor it then?
by giant fan since 57 on Dec 20, 2009 4:48 AM EST up reply actions
I favor anything that works
I know the Packers pulled off the switch. I just see too much upheaval for the Giants to pull it off.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 20, 2009 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
No 3-4 for a while
I think we all agree we need a new DC and a huge NT before switching to 3-4. Plus, I personally favor the old school 4-3 and the Giants D has done pretty good in this scheme the last few years.
by neterAll1 on Dec 20, 2009 11:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Two more votes for Hix from knowledgeable posters
I like it. I’d let him go for another Meggett type, but otherwise, no. He’s a decent return man and provides great depth at WR.
Hixon.
If we could sign him for 1 mill a year — keep him. If not there are a lot of “talented wr’s” that could do what he can do.
"Signing Jacobs was a mistake"
that’s a joke right?
As for Ware, he’s only a RFA, I’m not sure how many people will give up draft picks for him.
Moss should go, Hixon should stay a little more unless we get someone to replace him. Carr won’t be cut, he’ll either be resigned or gone through free agency, same with CC. Feagles? Unless we can find another sure fire punter, I think we need to keep him.
Wasn’t there that guy who kicked and punted? We could use him as a KOS and our punter.
So yeah, I agree in part, but disagree with more of the things you say.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
I think signing Jacobs to that much money was a mistake too
He’s been hurt every year he’s played and the one year he’s not been hurt, this year, he is running very soft. He’s got 1 or two good years left then he’s done and if he keeps running like he has this year he’s not really the game changer that deserves that kind of money. Big physical RB’s don’t last long. Rodney Hampton, Eddie George, Earl Cambell, Jamal Lewis even Shaun Alexander he flamed out real quick after 05. Yea sure Jim Brown and even John RIggins played a while but’s thats very rare you get that. I would look to trade him for another position of need kinda pull what the Bronco’s did trading Portis for Champ Bailey staight up.
Jacobs lately has been running like a beast
But noone will get 100 yards on 11-13 carriers a game.
I agree that during the beginning of the year he was tiptoeing a lot, but not anymore.
And then who’s our starting RB? Bradshaw? Ware? Sign Ward instead? Look at how great he’s been doing down in Tampa…
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
I see your point
but none of TB’s running backs are doing well, I don’t think Ward would be much worse than BJ right now, I just don’t like that many years for that much money for a guy that does not have a long shelf life, misses 3-5 games a year, fumbles a bit and can’t catch the ball out of the backfield. Ward would have been cheaper and I don’t think there would be much of a drop off with him. I know I’m in the minority with this but I just don’t think BJ is an elite back or even that close and he’s getting paid like one.
I agree BJ is running harder now but there is no reason it should of taken 12 weeks for that to happen.
Point taken
I just think your point is very misguided.
Its not like Mara’s are in the poor box because of Jacobs
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
You could also toss Rob Carpenter and OJ Anderson in there..
Riggins and Csonka were exceptions to the rule.
I'm to young to have watched Jim Brown
but from what I heard he was a freak, never missed a game and let the league in rushing every year he played. Awsome, Awsome player power guy with breakaway spead.
The majority opinion is that
he was the all-time best ever not just RB, but football player, period. I don’t buy it. As an RB, I give Sanders a slight edge. As for all-around, that’s a joke. He never threw a block in his life. He probably was the best lacrosse player ever. He and some of those Onondaga he played with were huge for lacrosse and unbelievably fast.
Yes George, Sanders retired way too early..he was something special..Never saw a guy who could
literally cut on a dime at full speed, completely change directions..but I was referring to some of the all-time “bull-rushers”..Sanders was the best finesse runner I ever saw…He probably would had played longer if it weren’t for the fact that he was stuck with the Lions.
BS was amazing
he’d have 4 staright runs of -1 or 0 yards then he’d break off a 60 yard TD run. He did that about 2 to three times a game, no wonder the Lions were competative when he was there they had nothing other than him.
WOD, he was amazing.
He had years of playing time ahead of him and he’s already serves ten years with the lousiest team in the league. Thurman thomas was his blocking back in college. Wwhat a duo. Something else about Brown—I don’t remember ever seeing him catch a pass.
I don't about Csonka
Csonka was very good for a few years with the Dolphins then he went into the WFL and was never really any good after that. By 76 Csonka was a dimished player he really only had about 6 or 7 quality years. B-Jake is going into his 6th he does not have much time left.
He did pretty good for the Giant's in his later years..Funny thing about his style was..
Foe a guy his size he could lower his body to about six inches off the ground, and his legs never stopped, they were like pistons.
I remember one great game for
Larry (with the Giants) in the mud. Besides that, not much. I do remember a hit he took in an SB game where an LB bent him almost in half from behind. Zonk got up as though it was no more than a routine tackle.
OJ tore up the league with the Cards.
I think he amazaed everyone after he came to us and finally got some playing time.
Well thats becasue Joe Morris got hurt
in the 1989 preseason and the Giants had few alternatives at that point. He did shock everybody in 89. He slowed down a lot in 1990 and if Rodney Hampton did not get hurt in the playoff game vs the Bears OJ would have barley played in that SB, maybe around the goal line, but Hampton had replaced as the starter by late in the year and Rodney was running well with some burst.
Yeah..Parcells loved picking guys like him and Herschel up..
He made the most out of what gas they had left in their tanks..and their experience and leadership was invaluable.
I don't know Bobbi.
I don’t remember Walker doing much for us. What I remember most for him was when a pass came his way he usually jumped for it (unnecessarily) and didn’t catcj it. I thought his career was a major disappointment. In college, he looked like the second coming of Brown. Jerry Jones looked like a genius trading him for what, 5-6 players draft picks. I do remember HW returning a kick for a TD. Awesome speed for a guy that size.
How about those’cuse RBs? Brown, Zonk, Little and Green? One great one after another.
For 2011
Mark Ingram could be a real good addition to our (by then) diminished RB fleet.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Dec 19, 2009 2:44 PM EST reply actions
As I said a long while ago, there's not a body of evidence enough to call Jay Alford a "great DT"
There was a lot of talk in the preseason about the season Alford was primed to have, but the reality is he has not had a breakout year yet. He still remains a player with a great potential upside, but at this point has hasn’t done much to warrant the kind of praise that some on this board heap on him.
by Step up and make big plays on Dec 19, 2009 2:48 PM EST reply actions
Jay Alford
I just remember him dominating in the super bowl. He had a sack and was a force coming off the ball all game.
The coaches, all said he was having himself a great camp.
He is 26 years old. I hope he gets healthy and can be a force on the line going forward.
+1
I’ll concede that. He did step up and make a big play that game, and at the most opportune of moments. Still, one sack in one game maketh not a great DT…
by Step up and make big plays on Dec 19, 2009 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
Great list, I love the detail of it
One thing I disagree about was I think he’s overatting our D-Tackles/Ends (Bernard, Canty, Cofield and Tolifson) and underrating our corners Webster, Thomas and especailly Ross.
Canty might be better with time but he sucked against Philly he got stood up and driven back the entire game and they are our chief rivals he’s got to play a lot better. He can’t rush the passer that well and neither can Cofield. Cofield is a slightly above average run stoper at best and if he’s an UFA this year and some team pays him more than what he’s worth (think Raiders with Gibril Wilson) their is no way the Giants resign him and until a new CBA gets done the Giants won’t even entertain that idea because he will be a RFA if there is no new CBA. Bernard was a dog in Seattle and he’s a dog with fleas hear in NY you could draft a guy in the 5th round and pay him next to nothing that will contribute more than Bernard has. Or better yet sign an aging vetern cheap to a one year deal who might add some leadership and play well for a year anything is better than Bernard at this point. Alford might be a good pass rusher from the DT positon but that’s yet to be determined. Tolifson? He’s a backup at best though he hustles on kickoff team.
Our CB’s are pretty good. Not elite shutdown good but as a unit well above average. CW has played like a shutdown guy at times and Terrel Thomas has a nack for making plays, I think he leads the team in picks, and is a very good blitzer from the CB and nickle CB position very important things if you want to have a defense built on pressure. Aaron Ross is easy to pick on becasue of his injuries this year but he had a great rookie year and I think gets a bad rap for 08 becasue Braylan Edwards ripped him up on national TV. I’ll admit after 07 he was on the same level as fellow rookie Derrel Revis and obviously has not progressed anywhere near that level but he’s still pretty good and can make some big plays. Also all three guys tackle really well (Though they have had some moments this year). The problem with the CB’s this year is there has been no pass rush and with the rules on contacting WR’s it’s near impossible to cover guys for more than 4 seconds unless your Revis, Baily, or Asomugha, look at the Eagles Sunday night Samuel and Brown are a great pair of corners but with no rush they got cut up by a bunch of young inexpierenced WR’s. I do agree about B.Johnson though he has played well enough to repalce Dockery.
Most BBVers have strong feelings about Bernard.
some want him to go, some thinks he needs another training camp to see if he can do what he was hired to do. I’m wishy-washy either way, content to leave the decision re his fate to the coaches, etc. I’ll acknowledge he sure hasn’t shown much
Tollefson
Always has his motor going and whenever his number is called on he delivers. You got to respect a guy like that.
He is 27 and definitely has good football ahead of him.
Gotta disagree
Tollefson may play hard but when has he made a play?
Everytime he’s in there he never makes a tackle and does not get even close to the QB, at least Osi runs by the QB
A lot of people like but I can’t remember a time when I’ve even heard his name called in a game?
One play that stands out
is that time he rocked Marion Barber or some other dallas running back on a 4th down pass.
Otherwise, I don’t know how much he’s playing so I can’t really tell you how much of an impact he has.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
Good return guy?
I vote for CJ Spiller, although he’ll never last till our second pick and we need a MLB worse.
we don't need a MLB....sorry.
Goff is as good a prospect as anyone not named Rolando McClain.
Spiller could last to the first pick the Giants have…..but not likely.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 19, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
Can Spiller catch passes like Ward?
If he can’t there would be no point in drafting another RB that can’t catch
by mclaren_is_the_best on Dec 19, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
yes...
he can.
The Giants don’t have a single RB that can’t catch…even Jacobs can catch if you don’t throw it 100mph at him from 10ft away….
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 19, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
Spiller is my choice if by luck we can snag him...I've been watching that kid..
If he’s on the board, I know we need help elsewhere, but we’d be fools not to pick him..and we all know that alot of the players we have were hurt..never had a chance to prove themselves yet…but you can’t let a kid who is going to wreak havoc in the NFL get away..Gotta pick the best player on the board..I hope he’s there but I doubt it..It would take some shrewd maneuvers from JR to even have a shot at him…That kid can do everything..
CJ Spiller
Since I live near Clemson I have seen a lot of him. He catches passes extremely well and has world class speed. the only rap on him is that he has been frequently dinged up. Some fear that he will not be durable enough. But he is definitely a playmaker. He is also a smart kid who has graduated early.
by giant fan since 57 on Dec 19, 2009 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
he won
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 19, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
he won
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 19, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
damn....
he won’t be the primary back with the Giants..so that will help.
..
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 19, 2009 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
I watched Spiller have a great year on a team that
really dfidn’t have much else on offense besides him. And he still made play after play. Every opponent knew he would get a lot of scrren passes along with long balls and they still couldn’t stop him. Oh yeah, and he also ran back a record number of kickoffs for touchdowns and looked like Devin Hester on punt returns.
Check out his highlights on this video. Watch his awesome speed in the Miami game.
by giant fan since 57 on Dec 20, 2009 5:09 AM EST up reply actions
Draft Thoughts
Throwing out some of my thoughts for the draft:
1) I’ll talk about offense, but if we did nothing offensively, we would still be fine.
2) I truly believe that if we had kept Derrick Ward instead of Jacobs, we would not be talking at all about our Oline and such. A back is a product of the OL. Ward was quicker to the hole and a better pass catcher out of the backfield. I think if we plugged any number of the better backs in behind our OL, they would be getting big yards. Jacobs has changed, he has become tyrone wheatley, pussyfooting to the hole. I don’t see how anyone can count on Brown after his injury, i wouldn’t count on a pitcher with a broken arm either. I think Bradshaw is too small to pass-block effectively. To me, this position is the one to look at in the draft. If we took an impact guy high, i would not cry.
3) Anyone counting on Phillips is crazy. He has ARTHRITIS. The way to deal with him, is forget about him, and if he can play, then thats a bonus. But he should not be counted on in any way. Our safety position is an unmitigated disaster. Cut Rouse, cut Brown, cut Johnson – they all stink. There are a zillion good corners that can become safeties. Good Safeties can be found in later rounds of the draft.
I still contend – and we will never know the truth – that the Giants made a mistake putting Phillips on IR. The way he played in the Cowboy game, to me, if they shelved him instead of Canty, then had him available after rest at this point of the season – the team would be better off in making a run. But honestly, I never thought Phillips was any better than average – its just that compared to our current crop he looks all-world. That move really hurt us.
4) One aspect thats killing us is that our LB’s and secondary are NOT good blitzers. One thing that was overlooked in our SB run was that Gibril Wilson and Mitchell were both good blitzers. They had the timing and the knack for it. This group does not.
5) Maybe everyone was enamored with keeping Osi, Kiwi and Tuck. I was never in that camp. I think its a luxury we cannot afford. If it was me, I would look to trade Osi, he has never been good against the run, but would be a premium bargaining chip. If you are rotating three premium guys you think is good, then that means you have a premium, high paid guy sitting on the bench.
My Dream – package OSI and picks, move up and take Suh. I haven’t seen a DT play like that in my lifetime EXCEPT Dan Wilkinson, who yes, ended up as just an average DT. But to me – if you could get one guy who could blow up the MIDDLE of the line, then pushing things to Tuck and Kiwi you get the overall pressure on the edge – and you don’t have to worry about coming up with two safeties and corner…… pressure mitigates that.
Reality – #1 Corner or Safety with emphasis on blitzing ability
#2 A true ILB
#3 Athletic LBs that can blitz/cover
#4 A pure returner – someone that can impact the game on specials.
the Giants have too many needs..
to go and package all the picks (and money) it would take the get Suh as the #1 overall…that has no chance.
I dunno why anyone things Jacobs was a bad signing….the Bucs OL is good, and Ward is doing squat for them.
At the time…Jacobs was a no brainer over Ward.
I think the only guy on the DL that has trade value is Kiwi….and I think they should look in that direction….for draft picks only.
If they can get say……..a 2nd and a 5th for Kiwi? I’d have no problem at all with that (then again..if they can get that for Osi? I’d be happier then a pig in its own crap).
Phillips should not be counted on…no. BUt he also should not be counted out. I think he could’ve played effectively THIS WHOLE SEASON…its just the team had the players overall health in its best interest.
They need a safety or 2, no doubt. But KP is in that mix.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 19, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
Wow, love the idea of trading up for Suh
with Osi and others. Ijust don’t think Osi would command much at this point. Who would we throw with him? I honestly believe that we could throw in 5-6 guys that could help one of the really rotten teams become maybe a .500 caliber team or slightly better. I wouldn’t mind seeing it happen, but i doubt it will. With a guy like Suh, we might be able to transition to a 3-4, although I’m not that crazy about that big a change.
Some Draft Ideas
Brandon Banks — look up this kid. He is this years Laron Stevens Hawkins of Arizona.
This draft class was said to be weak, but with all of the quality juniors and sophmores looking to get pain in an uncapped 2010. This draft may turn out to be one of the best in 15 years.
Kenny Phillips is already on his feet, and has had good reports from that famous surgeon in Alabama. Go check out his website, he actually writes a good blog.
As for Jacobs being a bad signing. At the time the Giants made the right decision, but when the deal was struck a little voice in the back of my head was like… i dont know about this. Health and durability is always part of the equation, but i just wonder how a man of his size be able to punish his body for so long.
The league is so physical right now, that i think the best running backs are athletic and shifty guys that get arm tackled rather than trucked. CJ spiller, Jahvid Best and a guy im watching right now Ryan Matthews all fit the bill. Also a guy that will be around later in the draft whom i think will be a solid NFL player is Montario Hardesty of Tenn.
The thing with Phillips is
he can’t run till May and yea his agent, the Giants, and the doctor that performed surgery are saying he’s doing well but they all have to say that.
A lot of Dr’s said that that surgery was risky and they have not had good results with it to recently. One article I read by a doctor said that and ACL or MCL tear is a much better prognosis becasue they can fix that, with Phillips condition it can’t really be fixed just hope that you can rebuild some cartalidge. I’m not sure Phillips ever plays another down let alone is productive again. I doubt he’ll ever have the range and speed he had and thats why he looked like a star in the making.
I feel the same way about Jacobs you do and did. I kinda liked it at first but had a bad feeling about it.
Is'nt that what Oden had done?
What otehr NBAers have had it done, who has it worked for and who has it failed on.
Amare Stoudamire..its worked.
Grant Hill…he’s still pretty good.
It depends on the age of the player.
Cofield is probably gonna be fine. Robbins is shot.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 19, 2009 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
Cofield had the same condition as KP?
I knew he had surgery but if Cofield had that surgery would’nt of he not been able to play till the middle of this season?
no..
but Cofield had microfracture surgery.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 19, 2009 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
problem is...
the condition is arthritic…so yeah, the cartilage could heal and he could be good to go…but for how long after all that wear and tear???
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
This is my dream draft
1. athletic DT that can get to the QB / OG / do-it-all RB like CJ Spiller
2. Cover safety
3. DE that is rough around the edges but has a good body of work (a project for the future)
4. Special Teams guys – returner, kicker punter
I think that we have to give Sintim – Goff – Boley another year together, hopefully all of them healthy through training camp and the season and if they are still not playing the way that we expect them to then we can fix that for 2011
by mclaren_is_the_best on Dec 19, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
They are not getting Suh unless the trade 4 or 5 picks
and 2011’s #1.
I disagree about coner. TT is a good blitzing corner.
Agree about Phillips, they have to look at it as if he’s done, if he comes back big bonus but I’m not counting on it. I disagree though he was going to be very, very good even compared to other safteys.
Totally agree about Getting more D-Lineman to pressure becasue if you have that D-Backs are less of a concern and I think our corners are more than adequet if we pressure well.
I wouldn't give up five picks, not in one year but
players or a combination of players and Picks (over time) I’d go for.
Suh
The Hype around Suh is almost making him overrated. Although i love the fact that the guy played fullback at the college level and is probably the most dominating DT college football has ever seen..
The fact is, Suh is playing on a reconstructed knee. And a guy named Gerald McCoy out of Oklahoma, is younger, just as dominant and will be around a bit deeper in the draft.
McCoy will also be a probowler and has a lot to add to his game, while Suh might be at his peak very soon.
McCoy is NOT as dominant...
McCoy plays on a DL..and an overal front seven, that is chock full of 1st rounders and just guys who will get drafted and play in the NFL. McCoy also goes into hiding for periods of time.
Suh is a dominant force. He makes the entire team better.
The fact he gets so much of a pass rush…in a conference like the BIg 12 that has almost exclusively spread offenses designed to get the ball out quickly..is testament to Suh’s dominance.
he is not overrated. In fact..McCoy is overrated in the sens that he’s an athlete and getting talked about in the top 10.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 19, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
If Suh wasnt around...
McCoy’s name would be tossed around as a possible 1st pick. You are right about Suh’s dominance in the Big 12 but.. my point is, how much does Suh have in the tank? His knee has got to be a concern going forward.
That said, taking McCoy over suh would be a crime to football. But, i just needed to make those points
true.
I just think McCoy is more Russel Maryland…and Suh is more Warren Sapp.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 19, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know if anyones watching
But Dallas is absoulutley kicking NO’s ass 14-0 and on the move again . . . Saints have 3 three and outs and Dallas is Gashing them. The Game is non-compatative it looks like our game vs the Saints . . . this is not good.
NO’s D has been getting worse and worse each week, I don’t think they even make the conference championship game they look like the Saints of last year the past few weeks.
Dallas wins this Giants have no shot at playoffs, we are done.
I'm watching it
and Colston just dropped…
nvm tough grab
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
COME ON SAINTS!!!!
WTF!!!!!!!!!! They look like crap, total crap!!!!!!!!
This year just sucks, nothing has gone the Giants way nothing!!!!!!!!!!!! Every NFL game is painful
17-3 first half.
Wow.
Even more surprising..if the Cowboys don’t choke it away.
They’re getting every break…and its only a 2 TD lead. THe Saints can get 2 TD’s in one minute.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
That's what I was thinking
The way the game’s been, it feels like the Cowboys should be leading by at least 3 touchdowns.
It’s not over, but I don’t have the greatest feeling about this.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
Wow
gotta pull him down by the hair next time.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
This game is a blow out
I have a feeling there is going to be a lot of upsets in this years playoffs even more than last year, these “elite” teams have no D. If Dallas makes the playoff they along with GB and Minny are the most balanced teams in the playoffs. Philly and NO are very similar.
I really don´t believe that we gonna have to root for the Eagles
against the Cowboys in the last week of the regular season…
Damn the Saints.
Yeah, we like NFL here in Brazil.
Not only do we have to root for the eagles
we have to root for the redskins after we trounce them on monday.
Hopefully this doesn’t give the vikings any funny ideas to compete for the 1st seed when we play them.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
But we have the tie-break advantage
If we finish the season 10-6 and the Cowboys finish 10-6 then we´re going to the playoffs.
Yeah, we like NFL here in Brazil.
by GiantsBRFan on Dec 19, 2009 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
I know
I still think we’ll make the playoffs.
But there’s even less room for error now, not that there was much to begin with.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
Yes, I agree with you
This game against the Saints were the perfect opportunity to give the Giants some hope. Now it´s pressure all the way to the end of the season.
Yeah, we like NFL here in Brazil.
by GiantsBRFan on Dec 19, 2009 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
Cowboys gotta finish 10-6.....
11-5 is not out of the question for these clowns.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 19, 2009 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
I can root for the Skins vs the Cowboys
I can always root against the Cowboys unless they are playing the Eagles.
Not only that
If NO Looses the Vikings will be playing hard against the Giants becasue they’ll have a shot at the #1. And there is no way we beat Minny if they are trying.
I can’t take this I’m getting sick watching this. Dallas looks like the best team in the league right now. NO just Sucks, I’ve never bought into them. They’re soft I don’t care what there record is.
I'm done watching it
Geax Saints, or what ever it is
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
I couldn't stand the Saints before this game...
now I really can’t stand them.
Win when I don’t want them to…lose when I don’t want them to.
I’ve said their lack of D…will be their downfall.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
Free I never bought into them
Yes Brees is great and so is the O BUT they are soft on D.
I had a feeling Dallas had the rith recipe to beat them, conrol the clock but I thought they would cock it up like Miami did.
Big play teams don’t win in the playoffs they just don’t. They always run out of gas and balanced teams figure them out.
In all fairness
They have like three starters out (Starting CB, LB, and I think their Nickel CB)
Not that their defense is amazing with them. They’re sort of like the Eagles offense. Lots of mediocre showings, but make big plays (INT, fumbles, sacks, etc.)
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
I hate to say it but
Romo has been a superstart the past few weeks. He looks like he wants to prove some people wrong
Any team that lives and dies by big plays...
can die..when there are no big plays.
Big plays are nice…yet, you gotta be able to move the ball.
That’s all they do is 7 step drops. The Cowboys are eating them up.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
24-3 going into the 4th
unbelievable!!!! What’s horrible about this is not only the implication it has on the Giants playoff chances but how the media will be all over the Cowboys jocks after this game and going into next year. I also think it will give the boys some confidence and they might make a run. I
24-10.
Does Dallas drive down for the kill?
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
course not...
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 19, 2009 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
Your serve Drew.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
24-17
your serve Tony.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
Glorious.
tho…Drew..WTF.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
kudos to DeMarcus Ware...
…a mere six days after being removed from the field on a stretcher, stepping up and making big plays. Remarkable. If only our DE from Troy did that more consistently…
It looks like we will have to win out, gentlemen…
by Step up and make big plays on Dec 19, 2009 11:32 PM EST reply actions
Maybe he will be inspired by his friends performance
make the big play
by mclaren_is_the_best on Dec 20, 2009 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
D-Ware gives credit to Osi in post-game interview.
Gutsy peformance by D-Ware tonight.
Beware D-Ware
by WittenRocks on Dec 20, 2009 12:48 AM EST up reply actions
+1
…from a football appreciation standpoint. Ware summoned everything he had left in his tank and more when it counted the most. It’s a pity that some of our guys can’t seem to play through injuries like that.
by Step up and make big plays on Dec 20, 2009 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
winning out might not even do it, but it gives us a chance
i guess the playoffs are starting early this year.
giants now need to win 7 in a row now
by Ahmad Bradshaw on Dec 19, 2009 11:39 PM EST reply actions
Matter of time.
Saints have been incredibly lucky, from the Jets screwing away a win, to the Redskins not hitting an essentially lock it up FG.
The Cowboys tried their best to screw it up too, but they had something the other teams didn’t…a pass rush.
I think the Pies shot their load tonight tho…be interesting to see going forward if they can build on this.
Beating an undefeated team is only eye-candy. The Saints were never Bowl contenders. All they do is big plays.
How can you ‘step up and make big plays’ if all you do is live/die by big plays?
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
Has to be said...
the officiating in tonight’s game was so awful in favor of the cowboys it looks like an NBA game with the Lakers or Cavs. There were TWO obvious pass interference flags that the refs didn’t throw for the Saints.(Remember when they threw the flag on Webster for feet tangling up when we played the Saints) And that illegal contact flag they calld against the Saints when Dallas went for it on 4th down So Roy Williams can run into the defender and it’s a penalty on the DB?? Complete BULLSHIT officiating tonight. More proof that the NFL and their refs are in love with Dallas.
true.
but the Saints played like crap. Officiating wasn’t great..yet, its not way the Saints lost.
All in all…the Cowboys exposed the Saints bare arses. They have a defense that can be run on all day. I think the Giants, should they ever get them again, need to hand off to Jake about 30 times.
The worst part about this is Dallas fans will be alive and kicking for at least another week…they just won the SB according to them.
Tho…I guess it will make the Saints fans shut up for a week. They’ve won the SB every week since they beat the Giants according to many of them.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 19, 2009 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
Officiating
is never great. It’s not even good
That was a bad call.but it goes to show you..
That a seasoned veteran receiver is going to be able to draw a call like that..These referees are plain sucking.
What's With Giants' Conditioning?
An awful lot of people, each year, are injured. What’s happening with their conditioning and training?
Thanks btb,
for your thoughtful analysis and the fruitful discussion it triggered. I still think btb is a nom de plume for 57 what with that 3-4 stuff.
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