Do you still trust in Reese?
by Ed Valentine on Dec 18, 2009 12:00 PM EST
in News
119 comments
In Reese We Trust.
That has long been the mantra here at Big Blue View. Implicit faith in the decisions made by New York Giants General Manager Jerry Reese.
With what has happened to our Giants this season, however, I am wondering if your faith in the GM has been dented at all.
Ralph Vacchiano addressed this same issue the other day, and had this to say.
Reese has gotten next to nothing out of defensive end Chris Canty, linebacker Michael Boley, defensive tackle Rocky Bernard and safety C.C. Brown from his offseason free-agent spending spree. Injuries have ruined Canty and Boley's seasons. Brown and Bernard have been busts.
And for $84 million the Giants have a defense that is 28th in the league in points allowed (25.4).
Coming off a 12-4 season, and in a league in which fortunes can turn on just one or two right moves, that obviously doesn't reflect well on Reese's investment.
It's not all because of the Free-agent Four, of course, but it's still a startling group failure considering that until this offseason Reese had a Midas touch as the Giants' GM. After inheriting a playoff-ready roster from former GM Ernie Accorsi in 2007, Reese made a dozen smaller moves that helped push the Giants over the edge and turn them into a championship team. He's also had a scout's knack for finding both role players and future stars.
But his resume now includes a six-year, $42 million contract (with $17.25 million guaranteed) for Canty, who has missed seven games with calf and hamstring injuries and is still looking for his first sack. And it includes a five-year, $25 million contract (with $11 million guaranteed) for Boley, who missed one game due to a suspension and four more to a knee injury and has just one sack.
And those are the good signings. Brown (one-year, $1.4 million) was so bad at safety, he was replaced first by Aaron Rouse, who was cut during this season by the Packers, and then by Aaron Ross, who is a natural cornerback. And Bernard (four years, $16 million, $6.9 million guaranteed) has been such a non-factor he wasn't one of the seven active defensive linemen on Sunday night.
Bill Sheridan may take the heat , but this plan fell apart long before he called his first play.
Vacchiano is right, of course. This free-agent crop does not represent Reese's finest hour. While you are killing him, though, remember how positive the reaction was when most of these moves were made. And remember how many respected names endorsed the Canty move.
The other part of the equation, an area Vacchiano did not delve into, is the draft. In 2007, Reese's first draft, he unearthed Kevin Boss in the fifth round and Michael Johnson and Ahmad Bradshaw in the seventh. All of those players impacted the eventual Super Bowl victory.
You can't, truthfully, judge a draft class until after about three seasons. However, where we sit today, the 2009 crop does not look nearly as successful. At least if you judge it in terms of depth. Hakeem Nicks will be a star, and Will Beatty looks like a fixture on the offensive line. For whatever reason, however, there isn't really a player drafted beyond the second round who has made any impact whatsover on this year's Giants.
That has left the Giants thinner in some areas than we thought they would be, particularly in the secondary.
Thing is, I believe Reese correctly identified the areas of concern for the Giants. It's just that for a variety of reasons, some beyond his control, his choices have not all panned out.
No matter what happens the rest of this season, I think the upcoming off-season is a critical one for Reese and the Giants. The NFC East is not going to get easier, and the Giants can't afford another off-season of wasted draft picks and free-agent busts.
Do you still have faith that Reese will regain his magic touch.
I do. I believe the Giants are in good hands. In Reese I Still Trust.
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Players have to play
I’ll fault JR for CC Brown.
Others? No.
It has been said that Canty needs one year to transition from 3-4 end to 4-3 tackle. That plus injuries….. Need another year to assess.
Same with Boley. Too much missed time.
Bernard had all the earmarks of a good pickup – he is just another pro athlete that took the money and tanked. Who could know?
JR called the WR situation right. While others screamed for Bouldin or another WR he stayed the course. Now it can be said that many expected either Nicks or HAM to be a star by now – but they have both progressed nicely.
And I still see stars in Sintim and Beatty but also a coach that does not play rookies.
No, I still trust JR.
disagree
.. JR brought in ccbrown as backup duty..depth on the chart. who would excell on special teams and run defense..
and to my knowledge cc brown has been a good tackler and st player. its pass defense where he is invisible. the giants had to to play him full time bcuz of injuries..
yes you can fault jerry reesebecause cc isnt a solid defender (run/pass) but he was one of the few out there and lb/dl was more in need at the time of free agent signings(robbins and cofield coming off injury)
100% Agreed, MSP.
What FA safeties were even out there to get? Jerry’s not to blame here, unless you want to blame him for believing too much in AP, and for too long. I thought Canty would fill the middle well enough to cover for our weaknesses there…didn’t work out…what’s really killed us is Kenny Phillips being out.
I left my swagger in my other pants.
What FA safeties were available last summer? How about two Giant Killers named Sharper and Dawkins; both were free against last summer.
I still trust in Reese, but experienced Safeties like Sharper & Dawkins would have helped solidify a inexperienced secondary. Who could know that Phillips would get hurt, but we were dangerously thin at Safety going into training camp. The extra money for Sharper or Dawkins over CC Brown would have been money well spent.
The Giants have spent took many high draft picks on wide receivers over the past 10 years and too few pick at Linebacker. Stinton in the 2nd round was the last high pick used to draft a Linebacker in years.
Dawkins never would come to the giants
Because noone is stupid enough to give him the deal Denver did. Sure he’s good this year, but he’s in his upper 30’s, and will decline soon.
As for Sharper, yeah he’d be great.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
Dawkins isn't good in coverage anyway
Even eagles fans think we were stupid to let him go. He blws plays up behind the LOS then gives up a 20 yard pass play. Last time I checked both the Eagles and THe Giants need safeties that can cover.
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
Sintim, not Stinton.
"The Dallas Cowboys might be America's Team, but the New York Giants are America's DREAM team." -- Robert Tisch
Gotta say...
injuries are a big reason why these guys have failed. The only one I’ll give credit..and failure to Reese signing is Bernard..he’s a POS who’s done nothing tho he’s gotten plenty of time.
As for Boley and Canty? I think these guys were more potential type signings then sure things…which would’ve been a Haynesworth.
Canty was a 3-4 DE..so it would’ve taken all of camp, preseason and about 1/2 a season for him to get acclimated….that hasn’t happened.
Boley I thought his athleticism would allow him to overcome the same injury hurdles Canty’s had….but that’s not really the case either.
I think he’s got less of an excuse than Canty…but Boley definitely hasn’t had the chance Bernard’s had.
CC Brown was never meant to start…merely play the run as a SS. He’s played more than he ever should…and its backfired.
The draft has been good IMO..can’t fault him for Sintim being injured..I like Beatty, he may be a starting OT for the next 10 years..(that’s good!). Nick’s may be the bet WR in the Giants history..as long as Steve Smith doesn’t have anything to say about that (he will….)
Barden and Beckum…they’re next year type things.
The only thing I’ll fault Reese with, aside from the Bernad being a disaster..is not finding a way to get another safety or 2 on the roster…and taht’s more a overall coaching and talent eval. type thing.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
and by "failure"
I mean till this point. Canty and Boley still have a place IMO going forward….Brown and Bernard need to get shown the door…it would’ve been yesterday…but they need body (bags) on the roster..)
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 18, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
+1
Sometimes, you have to make mistakes to learn a job better. It was bound to happen, nothing stays gold forever. He’s human. I don’t fault him for anyone but Brown and Bernard. Moreso Bernard. We have gotten good plays from Can’t Cover at times. Never seen one good play from Rocky yet. I fault the players. The execution has been atrocious for the most part this season.
"The Dallas Cowboys might be America's Team, but the New York Giants are America's DREAM team." -- Robert Tisch
Not even a discussion
his draft history has been great. The 2007 draft was great. Ross, Smith, Alford, Boss and Bradshaw are important components on the team.
The jury is still out in 2008. Prior to his injury KP is a star. Although, he had a tough game Manningham has been a pleasant surprise. He’ll be very good for many years. He missed most of last year due to injuries. TT has played very well. One of the bright spots in our lousy D.
In this past draft Nicks will be star. He’ll be one of the better WR in the league.
I still believe Canty can make an impact. Bernard was a waste. Boley has shown flashes. CC? Forget it! Why is this guy in the NFL?
Draft Grade: A
FA Grade: C
+1
A lot of it comes down to our bloated expectations, too. Not every move any GM makes is going to pan out. By and large Reese’s have been good, and the guys he has drafted have proven themselves capable of stepping up and making big plays in this league. The NFL is often far too myopic; we’re examining a rather small sample size here, he’s been around only a couple of years. Reagrdless, Reese has been great, and I have no reason to doubt that he will continue to be the right guy for us in the long run.
by Step up and make big plays on Dec 18, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
I pretty much agree with your assessment, Ed.
With the exception of Safety, he ID’d the areas of greatest concern. Unfortunately, the FAs haven’t worked out well. I think Canty will eventually, Boley as well. Brown and Bernard will probably be gone next year. The draft looks good what with Nicks and Beatty. Next year I expect Sintim will start. It’s not as though the draft picks and FAs were a total disaster. JR has earned the courtesy of being cut slack. He’ll do better next year.
The worst thing about safety...
is I heard Reese himself say its not an important position for the defensive scheme the Giants run…that’s ‘why’ he didn’t do it. Doesn’t excuse it of course..it was a big misstep.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 18, 2009 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
IMO
forget the big name FA signings. It appears they don’t pan out. Use free agency for roll players not stars.
The thing is...
Canty and Boley…really not signed to be stars. Canty was meant to be in this supposed DL rotation..which he semi is. Boley was meant to cover the TE and blitz on occasion, which his speed and size was supposed to allow him to do.
…and Boley CANNOT BLITZ for his LIFE.. and also, isn’t all that good at covering TE’s either, unless the ball hits him in the arse (AP was good at that…so he may have learned from the ‘master’).
Personally…I think they may have dropped the ball not shelling out bigger dough to Haynesworth.
Yea..he gets injured and misses time. But if we had Haynesworth for at least 12 games this year? Giants would have 9-10 wins already.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 18, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
you think
Hayneworth is worth 100+K? I don’t.
Well...
$40 mill guaranteed.
No..I don’t.
But given that the amount they guaranteed to Boley, Canty and Bernard is damn near close to that……..you think he’d be worth the extra few mill guaranteed?
I think he would’ve shored up a whole lot. I know all the imagining on the defensive line has gone for naught…but imagin Haynesworth surrounded by Tuck, Kiwi and Osi?
Haynesworth must be double or triple teamed….it would’ve opened up a whole lot.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 18, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
I can't imagine that...
…because when I imagine Fat Albert with that fat paycheck, I look into my crystal ball and see…one lazy, content DT. He’s a monster when he’s motivated…wait for the Skins to cut him.
I left my swagger in my other pants.
The thing with Haynesworth
and I don’t this as fact it’s just a hunch, maybe Giants ownership did not want to pay all of that money for him. Like I said I don’t know that but they do have a history of not paying a lot of money to well anybody. I could be totally off base but I think ownership played a part in not shelling out the dough for Haynewsorth.
They sure weren't stingy with Eli.
If my memory serves me correctly they paid Weinmeister what was considered a fortune in those days. A DT, he might have been the highest paid player in the league. Of course, he left after two years because they wouldn’t shell out what it would have taken to keep him. I think they probably decided they were better off with two guys they could get for less than what they would have had to pay to get H. It’s easy to look back and say they were wrong, but I agreed with their choice when they made it.
Eli's a QB that's entering his prime and has won a SB
so it’s different than a D-Tackle who’s spent 4 years with another team and has had some attitute issues.
Also they were probabbly working on a Deal for Eli so they realized they could only give that kind of money to one guy so they chose Eli.
That's as good a speculation as any.
We’ll probly never learn the exact details that influenced their thinking. It’ll be intersting to see how things play out w/o caps. Will we become like the Yankees/Red Sox. The Giants are probalt rhe richest franchise (outside of the ’boys.)
Top 5 most profitable franchises
Cowboys
Redskins
Giants
Patriots
Eagles
4 of the 5 are in the NFC East, that really sucks.
No Cap will not have the same effect as baseball becasue players will not be unrestricted FA’s until 6 years instead of 4 so the FA pool will not be as big and their will be less big name guys.
I actually think no cap will hurt the Giants. I think Dal, Wash, and Philly will be very agressive while the Giants will not and they will be left hehind. All three of their owners make a lot of money in other ventures outside of football and can tap into those funds while the NY Giants are the family business for the Mara’s so they would have to be careful with their money.
I think the Jets would be the more agressive team in the NY area if their would be no cap Woddy Johnson has a lot of money and the Jets are always trying to make news.
Aaaargh!
I didn’t know that. Sheesh, for me that was the second most important area to address.
Yes I still Trust Jerry Reese
I thought all the off season moves were great at least with Canty and Bernard, two players I knew. No GM is going to be perfect. On the flip side we had another decent draft.
I also don’t think Bill Sheridan should automatically be fired because he’s had to deal with a lot of things he has no control over, mainly injuries.
It certainly
will be an interesting off-season.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 18, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
I trust Reese
And don’t downplay the injuries to Boley and Canty and others — Sheridan has had to piece meal this defense together since training camp and although that goes with the territory, I think it was excessive this year and the fact that it was Sheridans first year exacerbated the problem with the injuries
Curious
No one is mentioning the other side of the defensive front either two guys returning from mircro-fracture+Osi’s woes; the utter failure of the front line to generate pressure in particular up the middle has changed this defense and put an emphasis on what Reese rightfully knows, that they call them “safties” for a reason, they are a last line of defense and if you are having to use one all the time as well as switching schemes to a Cover-Two (in order to rely an an active and athletic lb and safety crew-which we all know we don’t have).
McNabb had 8 seconds to through that strike to Deshaun…no-one can cover a receiver like him for 8 seconds…the Reese ? isn’t even a real one, he’ll be their until he wants to go…
agree 100%
and that’s what I’m saying with the Haynesworth thing. Cofield IMO has been the best DL out of the whole lot..but Robbins is shot.
this is why he signed Canty and Bernard, to hopefully get pressure up the middle.
Yes..the safeties can’t cover forever, and if there was some actual pressure, it would cover up a whole lot back there.
The idea that Reese had was that the front 4 would get pressure, pretty much negating the need to have a great cover safety.
The bigger problem this season has been all the DL’s. All of them, regardless of the reason, have not been getting pressure. Its either non-existent, or its too late.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 18, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
We were supposed to have Alford too
From what I know, Alfrod was the DT we’d use on sure fire passing plays.
His injury is just as bad, if not worst than KP’s because the two guys we brought in haven’t been able to do what we were told they would do.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
Alford was a HUUUUGHE loss.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 18, 2009 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
You guys nailed it
JR brought in guys to fit the Giants scheme stuff the run and pressure the QB. Giants emphasize pass rushers and cover corners not coverage LB’s and all world safties.
No one can predict injuries- the magazines I read said that Canty and Bernard were significant upgrades over what was there. CC Brown was signed as a special teams player and emergency safety.
I remember a post where Ed listed the players the Giants could not afford to lose- I believe every one of them has either been out or has played through injuries with the possible exception of Brandon Jacobs. Here’s my list:
1. Eli Manning- has played with a bad foot for most of the season
2. Justin Tuck- has been a shadow of himself after the shoulder injury
3. Kenny Phillips- season ended
4. Brandon Jacobs- not the B J of old for some reason
5. Antonio Pierce- season ended
6. Steve Smith- so far, so good
7. Chris Snee- something is wrong, I’m not sure what
8. Aaron Ross- out for more than 1/2 the season, out of position now
9. Kevin Boss- concussions, etc.
10. Corey Webster- played well when most were healthy, has declined since injuries hit
Add to this the collapse of the punting game with the opponents starting in great field position again and again and our offense backed up far too often and it is surprising we are still in the hunt for a playoff spot.
chris snee....
seems like he’s way ahead of everyone else on the Offensive line.
He’s off the ball so quickly that he’s even getting ahead of his blocking assignments at time.
on the TD by jacobs he got a small piece of the LB…but there were a couple of times when he’s flat out whiffed on the guy he was supposed to block. Sometimes when the play is over and guys are laying on the ground you will see Snee out in front of the pile standing around…like “Yo Brandon…what you doing on the ground, you’re supposed to be following me?!”….
Either everyone else on the line has lost a step or Snee is just getting ahead of himself.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
...it's because he's the only O-lineman who stands to lose his spot at the family dinner table.
how’s that for motivation?!? ;)
by Step up and make big plays on Dec 18, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
Imagine that Thanksgiving Dinner after the Denver Game
at the Coughlin Household.
Chris Snee: Can I please have a Turkey Leg?
Tom Coughlin: Your sure played like a Turkey Thursday night Snee!.
Mrs. Couglin: TOM! His name is Chris!
Tom Coughlin: I’ll call him Chris when he stops titty blocking and starts driving guys off the GOD DAM BALL and regaining the line of scrimage!!
Mrs. Snee: DAAAAD!!! It’s Thankgsgiving! He’s trying his best!
Tom Coughlin: Alright Alright. He could have a Turkey leg but I’m going run his ass next week in practice!
Reese is just fine for the Giants
I think in the end Jerry Reese will be considered a good GM, but not a great GM. I don’t think he’ll even be considered one of best in Giants history. He got a little lucky with the draft in 2007, but has produced respectable/average drafts since then. In terms of drafts, I think the one thing we can count on from Reese is that he WON’T have many early round busts, which is something that Giants have experienced a lot of. Reese has never done a good job with FAs. I think Danny Clark was his first signing and was nothing more than a serviceable backup. I can’t really think of his other signings, but he definitely needs to step it up. Ernie Accorsi wasn’t the greatest GM, but definitely did well with his FA signings, which include: Pierce, Burress, McKenzie, D Ward, and Robbins. The Giants will definitely win at least one more SB with Reese and will be winners more often than not because of him, but I just don’t think we’ll see the consistency of an organization like the Colts or Pats.
Kawika Mitchell was his best FA signing
and he let him go yet signed Boley who’s not nearly as good for more years and more money.
JR seems to be a good draft guy but not a very good FA guy.
EA was better at Free Agencey. He brought in a lot of key guys for the 2000 and the 2007 SB runs.
But EA's drafting sucked
Obviously Eli is playing well for us now but was it worth 2 first and a third? Kiwanuka hasn’t lit up the world either
by mclaren_is_the_best on Dec 18, 2009 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
Not so much
EA’s first couple of drafts were weak but he did draft, Osi, Diehl, Seubert, Snee, Eli, Tuck, Webster, Jacobs, Tiki Barber and Shockey.
His first round picks were weak, William Joseph, Ron Dayne, Will Allen, Shaun Williams was ok but never as good as expected. JR has been good with his top three picks it seems, especailly the first round. JR also has better feel for the WR position than EA, Hakeem Nicks, Mario Manningham, and Smitty, vs Ike Hillard, Joe Jurivicious, Tim Carter, and Sinorice Moss.
JJ wound up having a good career as
did McCaffrey. We kept guys who weren’t as good and let them go, but, yeah, our ecent WR pick have been, as a group, the best ever. We got Shofner in a trade and Homer Jones was a single-o we took a flyer on (he was cut by Houston in his first training camp becuase it looked like he’d wrecked his knee for good.)
I blame Dan Reeves for McCaffery
He cut him in 93 becasue he wanted Mark Jackson a WR from his Bronco days. A bad move in the long run.
I thought it was Mike Sherrard?
by Step up and make big plays on Dec 18, 2009 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
Reeves brought in both Sherrard and Jackson that year
I get on him for Jackson because well Jackson was not that good and McCaffery was better. I think Sherrard went down with a hip injury that year but he was pretty good. Jackson stunk, he dropped a big pass in that big game vs Dallas at the end of the year that decided the division and homefiled advantage.
sooooo, if I am hearing you correctly...
…what you are saying is that Jackson failed to step up and make big plays??? ;)
And, incidentally, while we are on the topic of Dan Reeves’s receivers, I will likely never forget then-president Ronald Reagan saying, “where’s Ricky Nattiel?” and throwing a strike to the speedster as he zipped by, suit and all…
by Step up and make big plays on Dec 18, 2009 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
Where's Ricky Sanders
is what Regan said, the Skins spanked the Brocos in that Super Bowl that year though Natiel did catch the Broncos only TD in that game.
and YES Jackson did not STEP UP AND MAKE BIG PLAYS! Thats why I did not like him
ah yes, good call, got my Rickies confused...
…after all, Skins housed the Broncos behind Timmy Smith’s huge game…in retrospect, it makes more sense to me why it was a big deal at the time for Reagan, given the DC connection…
by Step up and make big plays on Dec 19, 2009 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
Ricky Nattiel caught the TD on the Broncos first offensive play...
…which had us thinking at the time that Denver was for real. That sentiment only lasted until the second quarter…
by Step up and make big plays on Dec 19, 2009 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
Eli might not have worth a 2 first and a third
considering how well Ben and Rivers have played but thats highnsight.
Tuck was a third and for the most part has been like a top 15 pick.
Jacobs was 4th rounder and he’s been as good as a lot of 1st and second round guys.
His drafting sucked?
Have you forgotten Dave Brown? Oh…never mind.
That was George Young
EA took over in 97. George Young lost his touch a bit at the end especailly with first round offensive guys, Thomas Lewis, Tyrone Weatly, the aforementioned Dave Brown, Jarrod Bunch, Derrick Brown not exactly Phil Simms, Mark Bavaro and Rodney Hampton.
Even thoug Young struggled at the end he still drafted Strahan, Keith Hamilton, Jason Sehorn, Jessie Armstead and even Amani Toomer which were big parts of the Fassel Giants and that 2000 Super Bowl team.
That's right. Wheatley, Bunch and Brown were big disappointments.
Wheatley was misused, much like Thunder. The raisers got godd years from him.
Sheridan goes, Reese stays....
My gripe with Sheridan is he doesn’t seem to be able to make adjustments – either in game, or game-to-game in a timely fashion. He reminds of the old line about the generals who are always fighting the last war. We never seem to be prepared for today, but are still trying to figure out what happened last week and last month. Whatever his system is, the players haven’t learned it well and they haven’t bought into it. As for Reese, he’s done a lot of things right in the past, and he has shown (unlike first-timer Sheridan) that he CAN do the job and can excell at. This wasn’t his finest year, but a lot of that is because of injury and pure dumb bad luck. I don’t think you tear everything down and start over again, you adjust, tweek and remove what hasn’t worked and try something different (looking at you Mr. Sheridan).
Let's face it acquiring players via FA and the Draft is a crapshoot..
I’d much prefer draft picks over re-treaded tires..but there are scouts that are supposed to provide the results of solid analysis and input on both fronts, so you can’t blame Reese..you can point blame to the entire evaluation process..there’s an old I/T term to describe it: “Garbage-in…Garbage-out”.. So. I can’t blame Reese..I still have faith in him, he probably already has addressed this with his scouting staff..and there maybe changes there in the off-season..Let’s face it, he needs accurate input from these people, he has no crystal ball..sometimes trying to get a bigger bang for your buck will bite you in the butt.. (Do I want one Haynesworth or for the same total price get a Boley, Bernard, Canty?)..They have to re-adjust thier Cost vs. Value equation..Successful teams, and we have been one obviously take the best draft pick available..They should do the same with FA acquisitions..
Bernard....
seems like a guy who was waiting for one more pay day….and when he got it he basically packed it in.
I mean, injuring himself while working out on his own seems a little bit fishy….that guy hardly participated in camp at all. now he’s finding himself on the inactive list?
is this guy even trying?
I think i saw him make a play in the Oak game and that’s was about it…
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
Reese
has done a good job. He has had solid above average work in the drafts. Free agency evaluation is always more difficult because big bucks and expectations are automatic. I think he will get better in his choices, to which I am looking forward with great anticipation.
Canty...
now Canty worries me. Canty was never a huge #‘s guy in Dallas but i thought what he was able to open up for Ware was invaluable. in a 3-4 you have 2 gap responsibilities and are almost always seeing a double team….so i thought that’s why his #‘s weren’t all that great.
I thought coming into a 4-3 would give him better numbers do to the fact that he could find himself with more 1 on 1 match ups and only having to play in 1 gap.
I’m starting to wonder if playing DT in a 4-3 was a smart move for him. He’s so tall that you wonder if guys are getting leverage on him…you also have to wonder if it’s just due to so much time missed…or a new defensive scheme…or just getting acclimated. I never thought Canty would be a 12+ sack guy, but I thought he would have better numbers and more importantly really help out our DE’s….but as of yet it looks like that has not happened.
considering the amount of money we paid him this has got to me the most concerning FA signing from ’08.
I’m actually fine w/ boley.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
Agree about Canty
I thought he would be like Keith Hamilton. Hamilton played DE for the G-Men when Nolan was the D-Cordinator with a 3-4 in 93 then went to D-Tackle when they switched to a 4-3. KH started making plays as a D-Tackle in the 4-3 hell he lead the team in sacks in 2000. I thought Canty was going to be able to provide that sort of push up the middle. He has not even come close
I’m worried too because other than the Dallas game he has sucked. I’m sure the injuries have not helped but I’m concerned too at this point. Maybe he’ll straighten it out next year but I think the 09 FA class will set this team back a bit these guys really are not very good.
Your concern re Canty is justified
IMO, his injury and missing training camp has hindered his transition from a 3-4 to a 4-3
ROSS REINJURED HAMSTRING
just read over the wire — this is ridiculous
Yes he's hurt it again..
…and Shanahan is in serious talks about the HC job in Washington…I said the other day that I wasn’t worried about Cerrato resigning as a motivating factor, but with this news about Shanahan, and our guys getting more injuries..I think this could be trouble..Those players have gotten the message and they’ll be hell-bent on showing their stuff..We have a larger challenge than I had hoped for this week.
I don't fault Reese
Hey Jr made some quality pickups in this year’s draft and free agency. I just don’t think the coaches have been using them right.
C.C. Brown – I thought he should’ve been cut at the beginning of training camp cause he got torched in preseason.
Chris Canty – I think he’ll do better once injuries don’t hold him back
Michael Boley – Good LB, just needs time to heal and get up to speed again. He was dominant in the Chiefs game
Rocky Bernard – Bust. Guy stopped playing. He had no push.
Sintim – don’t think he’s seen the field enough but he’s had glimpses of being a good pick
Ramses Barden – dunno why he’s not active. He’s 6-6 and be a great catcher. "Reese said he expects the 6-6 receiver to “contribute right away as a threat down in the red zone.”
Travis Beckum – Again, not used in a 2 TE set even when we’re having problems running. I think he’s not utilized enough
Andre Brown – Got hurt, but looked good.
Sha’reff Rashad – Outplayed C.C. and should’ve kept his job.
Hagan – looks like he might be a good WR, but dunno yet. Seems decent on special teams.
Evans – De who looked like he had a huge motor.
I think Reese has put us in a good position to win, but the execution has been poor. I mean to not have Barden active on game day especially after having horrible red zone % is not JR’s fault.
I also don’t fault him for not knowing that so much of his secondary would go down. He did get us Rouse, and he performed well, but how long was Brown left on the field while Rouse sat?
I don’t see how the coaches not using the tools they have on hand to better use. When Moss has sucked it up week after week and you active him over someone who might produce it’s a crime.
Even Nicks was not used as much as he could’ve been. Heck the couple times Hagan has gotten in on O he’s been ok. I just think they’ve shown too much favortism to people who have been producing before. Look how long it took them to sit Osi because he wasn’t producing. I think they’ve made horrible personnel decisions on who to have playing and that doesn’t fall on the GM.
We all wanted WRs remember
How we were sunk without Plax and Amani, and how Reese was picking up all these D guys, when it didn;t seem the D was the problem. Well, he was right and wrong. D is a problem, only it’s not fixed. The WRs turned out to be OK.
One must ask, which GM has done a better job over the last three years? I’d pick Reese’s record since the 2007 draft over 25 out of the 30 GMs without even having to think about it.
Canty and Ross
Ross – re injuring his hamstring, that is just a pain to see considering how Leon Hall the CB drafted a few picks before him is having a probowl season.
Chris Canty – 6"6 300 lbs — he is the ideal 3-4 DE.. why did we take a chance on him? Clint Sintim the ideal OLB in a 3-4. Michael Boley the ideal 3-4 ILB…. Hmm was Reese preparing for a defensive switch?
Tuck could play DE in a 3-4.. Umenyoria, Kiwanukah and sintim would make an incredible OLB rotation in a 3-4….
The only issue is the Nose Tackle.. Jay Alford and Cofield could handle it, but be a bit undersized… hmm – trade up for Terence Cody?
I just looked at draft boards..
Terence Cody — is projected to be a late 1st rounder, wont need to trade up.
HELL NO
to Cody.
If above no one wanted Haynesworth…Cody is a fat pile…
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 18, 2009 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
From a couple of draft things I've seen
I’ve read that whear the Giants are projected to be picking their does not seem to be a Saftey, D-Tackle, or LB worth that high of a pick so it had the Giants taking the O-Tackle Anthony Davis from RU. This upcoming draft seems heavy with quality O-Lineman, Davis is a big powerful guy can be an effective run blocker on the right side while Beaty is moved over to the left side and Deihl back inside.
I like Davis.
He’s a LT (he could be a Ryan Clady at LT….), but he could probably fit at RT, cuz he’s a big bastard.
Beatty at LT, Diehl at LG, Davis at RT?
Only thing is…I think McKenzie was finally close to 100% in that Eagles game….he’s got a couple years left and I really think there’s more in him, at least enough to wait a few rounds for a OT
..that is, unless Davis is there.
He’s this year’s Andre Smith (tho less heralded). He may go top 10, so it may be moot.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 18, 2009 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
Davis is projected as a RT in the NFL (I have no idea why, Size?)
I think a lot of these current o-linemen for the Giants have some more time left. I know they have not played as well this year but they’ve actaully passed block well at times they just have not been as dominate as usual
This same unit can rebound next year and have a good year I’m not nearly as worried about them as some. I am worried about the D-Line & Saftey positions. Maybe some more young depth on the O-line but I’d like to see some D-Line men Safties and maybe a LB.
I know...
I hear that about Davis too…..IMO he proved he was a LT when he stuffed John Pierre Paul and George Selvie when Rutgers played USF.
A guy that big is not supposed to handle NFL caliber speed rushers so well.
He’s big..he lost a lot of weight (down to 330….), but I think he could be a LT.
Ryan Clady is a LT (6"6 330)…Anthony Davis can be a LT (6"6 330).
Tho it does depend on the OL scheme in the NFL…but he’s an athletic fat.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 18, 2009 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
aha, just as I suspected, btb,
you’re really 57 operating under a pseudonym, right?
+1
Let the record show that another fan has joined me in my quest to repair the defense by converting to the 3-4 defense…..LOL
by giant fan since 57 on Dec 18, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
At this point, it looks like a
half way decent idea. One good thing about the 3-4 is that it requires special attention by the opponents because it’s not as common as the 4-3. NT is the key (it doesn’t hurt to have the kind of LBs the Giants used to specialize in either.)
Since we now find ourselves in the position of
having to get new linebackers anyway the time might just be right. I love the way a big nose tackle virtually eliminates the opposition’s inside running game and force double team blocking on every play, giving those four linebackers better opportunities to blitz.
by giant fan since 57 on Dec 19, 2009 6:17 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed...
But the 3-4 defense is better suited to handle stuff like what Romo did to us a couple of weeks ago. 55 passes! Alot of them were slants or short throws over the middle to Witten. A good 3-4 can make that a dangerous throw. Besides, aren’t you tired of seeing or corners being dragged along for more yardage by big receivers and tight ends?. McNabb also drives us crazy with just enough movement out of the pocket to complete critical passes.
My opinion…… the 3-4 is the right defense for today’s offenses.
by giant fan since 57 on Dec 19, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
Revis and Hall
were the two CB’s drafted ahead of Ross.
The Jets were agresive and traded up for Revis.
Ross had a great rookie year I thought did not improve much last year and has been a bust this year, while Hall is a pro-bowler and Revis in the best CB in the league.
Why is this even a question?
You see guys like Shanahan, who blew a 3 game lead in the division with three games left, and people are tripping over themselves to get him.
Just because they’re some “demi god” doesn’t mean they’re immune to mistakes.
The only flaw I can find in Jerry’s go through was not getting a veteran safety. I don’t think Jerry thought KP would go down for a whole season, and that CC would play mostly special teams, and occasional spot duty.
Bernard’s a waste
Canty’s been injured, I think we need to give him time
Boley’s shown signs, I think we need to give him more time too.
And Robbins, unfortunately, has gotten old and won’t be with this team next year.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
Did JR
know the system BS was going to run when he signed the players in FA?
Maybe he was getting players that would have fitted the Spags system but like everyone else they are learning a new system.
We need to give Canty another season before we make a decision on him, Boley is good, Brown was for one year anyway and was meant to be a backup – as for Bernard he must have shown something for them to sign him
by G Fan in England on Dec 18, 2009 3:43 PM EST reply actions
System
G Fan, Sheridan was hired for continuity. He was hired to run Spags system. Largely, he has, zone blitzes (which Spags loved, too) and all. So, it has nothing to do with a new system. This is the one they have played for three years.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 18, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think Boley is very good at all
compared to Chase Blackburn, Bryan Kehl, Regie Torbor, Geris Wilkonson, Danny Clark, and what ever scrub LB the Giants have put out there since Armstead left he’s good; compared to any team with above average starting LB’s he’s worse. Kawika MItchell was a lot better and JR should of kept him he wanted less money than what Boley is being paid he just wanted a 4 year deal and JR did not give it to him.
I agree with the concensus on good draft, bad FA moves ...
although, Boley looks good when not injured, and Canty may be O.K. next year. Bernard and Brown were mistakes, though. If Canty turns out to be a bust, that was a major league costly mistake.
I especially think Sintim has some big upside and Nicks is contributing big time, and Beatty looks like McKenzie’s replacement, and not just for the next few games.
From 2007 – 2009, JR still gets pretty high marks.
Giants #1 priority should be a new Defensive Coordinator.
Greg Blache – the Redskins DC may be looking for a job next year.
John Fox – may be looking for a job next year.
Look a the change for the Saints & Broncos by bringing in experienced Defensive Coaches.
Any other ideas?
Dick Jauron ...
was TC’s first DC in JAX. He seems to be available …
Fox would be the best option, as he would be a good HC successor to TC some day. Jauron is in that category of DC yes, HC no way.
I'm with you BB ...
let’s cross our fingers that Fox doesn’t get another HC shot immediately. Hey, Mangini did, so Fox might well not have to take a step back.
I’m not even sure how good a DC Jauron was, but since it was with TC, there might be more of a chance for him here.
Dick Jauron was not a very good DC in Jacksonville
Their D was never good. It was good in 99 when Capers took over because Jauron took the Bears job.
Jauron is one of those NFL guys thats very well respected but has never acomomplished much. He gets jobs becasue people respect him, he’s very intellegnet, and interviews well. I don’t think the Giants D would all of the sudden become great with him.
Bernard= Bust
Canty had too much injury time to tell yet I give him another season
Boley in no way is a bust
CC well is CC
In Reese I trust
JR is doing a great job.
I’m hard pressed to blame him for any of this year’s problems.
by giant fan since 57 on Dec 18, 2009 5:37 PM EST reply actions
In general, I agree,
but ANY? That’s a stretch.
I guess I meant in the "big picture" of things, George.
I’m pretty sure Boley will work out fine, and who can complain about our receivers? I wonder how much, if any, JR gets involved in coaching personel?
by giant fan since 57 on Dec 19, 2009 6:06 AM EST up reply actions
he's to blame for something this year.
Bernard…lack of safety depth (there were others out there not named CC Brown)…picking up Aaron Rouse..when Bernard Pollard was sitting out there a few weeks earlier (now he’s a STEAL for the Texans).
He’s to blame.
I think he took too much from this media hype when he drafted 3 !! weapons for the offense.
Nicks I have no problem with..and I get the feeling in the future I’ll like Becks and Barden, but there’s MORE THAN A FEW defensive STARS that were drafted in the third round and later.
Now..can he be to blame for not drafting a star? No. Are Beckum and Barden future players? Possibly..I don’t doubt that.
But I’ll blame him for focusing too much on offense instead of somewhere in the middle rounds…(Beckum, Barden, Brown and Bomar…NO impact this season…)
He messed up by simply not addressing the defense at all, aside from Sintim.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 18, 2009 7:33 PM EST up reply actions
**4 !! weapons for the offense
the 4th is Andre Brown.
Not Reese’ fault he’s on IR of course tho.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 18, 2009 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
Reese
is doing fine, injuries and coaching have been the problems imo. The defense is out of position so often, so many blown coverages with guys running free in the secondary, it happens way too often so I blame the coaching, and special teams have been horrible, if we could cover on punts Feagles wouldnt have to kick the ball out of bounds when hes kicking from the Giants side of the field, our KO coverage just sucks, short field+horrible defense=big points.
Our offense has been putting up points even though the running game has struggled, I look forward to the future of this group Resse has put together, so I think personell wise we are ok, we lack coaching imo.
by BigBlueCrew_jfl on Dec 18, 2009 6:07 PM EST reply actions
In Reese I trust
All of the injuries to these players are not really his fault, if anything they are more on the training staff’s shoulders than anybody else. Any one ever notice the large amount of hamstring injuries that keep the Giants players out of games for what seems like forever? Boley will be a very good pickup in the long run and he is our only LB who can cover. C.C. is a bust but everyone gets one mulligan . Rouse is turning into a nice mid-season pick up and Canty and Rocky? only time will tell but I will give Reese the benefit of the doubt, nobodys perfect all the time so yes, in Reese I trust!
My Take on JR
FIrst it’s way to early to determain if JR has failed. Sure this year looks awful but FA’s are similar to draft picks you have too look at it a few years down the road. GM’s are never right 100% of the time, the Eagles have drafted the likes of Freddie MItchell and Reggie Brown at WR before drafting D-Jax and Maclin so teams make mistakes on talent all of the time, other than NE and Pitt. (Though NE has been stuggeling recently with draft picks more than normal.)
The Good – he’s very good at drafting. Aaron Ross, Kenny Philips, Hakeem Nicks. I don’t remeber a time when the Giants have drafted so well with first round picks. Injuries have efffected this but he can not be faulted for that. The 07 draft was great, Smitty, Boss, Alford. Even 08 with Terell Thomas, Ham, and maybe even Goff. Beaty looks like a keeper and we’ll have to wait and see on the other guys. Trading Shockey was also a good move Boss is just about as good and not nearly the primadonna.
He’s also NOT made some key moves. He refused to shell out a lot of money for Willis McGehee when Tiki retired becasue he belived in BJ and Ward. He cut Pettigout and beilived Deihl can handle LT and he was right. He rufused to trade picks or players like Steve Smith for Boldin or Edwards because he belived in Smitty, Ham and felt he could find an impact WR in the draft and again it looks like a good move.
The Bad – He’s not been very good at signing FA’s. He brought in Kawika MItchell in 07 and that has been his only FA move that has really worked out but he refused to sign him to a longer deal and he would have stayed for less money than Buffalo was giving him he just wanted the years. So he brought in Danny Clark on the cheap and he’s not had the impact of Kawika. So this past offseason he signed Boley for 4 years and more money than what Kawika wanted. Boley might end up being better than he is but I’d rather have Kawika. He’s been a little to neglagant at the saftey position. I know it’s not a big part of their scheme but C.C. Brown and not drafting a quality saftey in this years draft were not great moves and most of us were worried about that this preseason. Canty and Beranard, well they have not worked out. Bernard sucks and Cany has been a big dissapointment. If a new CBA gets done and the cap stays these moves could really hurt the Giants over the next few years.
I also think JR scewed up a bit with the draft and final roster this year with the drafting of Barden and Beckem. I know a lot of people love Barden on this site but I’m still not sure why the Giants drafted him and Beckum. If he felt Ham, Hixon, Smitty, Boss, Moss, Hagan and Nicks could get the job done then why waste roster spots on developmental guys when your thin at saftey, lack talent at LB, and have some aging O-linemen. Even if Barden and Beckum work out what does that mean? We’ll have a good backup TE and #4 WR but we don’t have any LB’s, saftey’s, or D-Tackels. I don’t know I felt good about the FA signings on D-Line but I still questioned those picks without depth at saftey and no quality LB’s.
I defense of JR – PLAXICO! He screwed this team up more than just sabatoging the 08 season and killing the repeat dream. Plax was signed to a long term deal in early 08 and was a big part of the future. When he shot himself he left a hugh void that they unexpectly had to adress in the 09 draft. Think if they had Plaxico. They might have repeated (I think they do) and all they have to do is replace Amani and they had that guy already in Smitty. Throw in Manigham and Hixon and they don’t have to worry about WR in the draft. The probely draft a D-Tackle, LB, or Saftey in the frist round in 09 and probley take another guy at one of those key positions instead of Barden. In fact I’m amazed how well and how quickley JR has rebuilt the WR position considering they lost the most productive WR in franchise history and the most talnted WR in franchise history in the same year.
KENNY PHILLIPS – like Plaxico this was another guy the Giants were counting on big time who unexpectley may never play another down for the Giants and his absence has made saftey another position that the Giants unexpectanly have to address. JR can not be faulted for this but it does mean it will take the Giants more time than expected to be competative on defense. Bottom line PLax and KP were big parts of this teams future and their absence has added two major holes which has made JR’s job tougher than expected last offseason and this comming one so I dont think he can be fairly evalulated until a couple of years.
Ha ha! Thanks Blue
I got excited when Ed posted this thread, I’ve been thinking about this all year so I needed to get it off my chest.
Lots of injuries and young players
We have to trust in him hes going nowhere.
no doubt...
I mean..do we want Vinny Cerrato? Do we want our owner ruining every offseason?
Reese has built a SB champ. He misjudged on talent this year…
All of this is a testament to Peyton Manning…yes, it is. There is NO QB. NOT ONE, in the NFL, that can mask the deficiencies of a team like Peyton.
The Steelers and Patriots have had injuries/got younger this season..what’s happened? Sub-par seasons.
Last season, look at the Saints. Tell me Peyton Manning wouldn’t make that team 12-4? Brees is great….he is NO PEYTON MANNING.
"It ain't over till its over"---
3rd down + Steve Smith = 1st Down.
"I just saw Avatar, and Sean Avery was hands down the best character!"
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 19, 2009 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with about Peyton being awesome
But this year with the colts, its so much more.
Their defense has improved a ton.
Part of it is that when Sproles ran all over them last year, their GM realized that the DT, whom they always wanted more speedy guys there, were too small. So he got a ton of big guys, and their defense has been much better.
Would they be 14-0 w/o Peyton? No, but this year, they have one great team.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
They'll still loose to SD in the playoffs
I root for them when the Giants are out but to me they are a soft team. JAX ran the ball all over them.
We'll see tomorrow about that
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
JR was great in 07 but
EA built that team from QB to oline to FA’s and D-linemen that was all done on EA’s watch.
JR was great that offseason and his rookies made tremendous contributions but I feel like EA gets shafted a bit for that 07 team. Eli, Plax, Tuck, Jacobs, Webster, Pierce, Robbins, the entire o-line were all EA draft picks or FA moves. Also hiring TC was done under EA’s watch, though Wellington Mara was a big factor in that decision.
I never bought
the whole “In Reese We Trust” anyways. He’s mostly done a great job so far and I’m happy he’s the GM, but that mantra seemed to be used just to automatically shoot down any possible criticism and to stop reasoned arguments in their tracks.
Burn the witch!
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
When there's a WILL there's a WAY
It's just part of the NFL
No team is really good all the time, (Except if you luck out and draft a HoF QB), especially in the cap era, the occassional injuries to all the wrong players are one reason for that but Jerry Reese has done a great job so far. Yes, hes made some mistakes but other GM’s have made much bigger blunders. If he fixed our WR corps in a year I’m sure he can do the same with the defense and most importantly the secondary unit.
A new defensive coach to run them would also be a good decision but I think almost every Giants fan agrees with that.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Dec 20, 2009 3:39 AM EST reply actions
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