'Kudos & Wet Willies:' Missed opportunities edition
by Ed Valentine on Dec 14, 2009 8:19 AM EST
in Kudos & Wet Willies
398 comments
I hardly know where to begin in discussing Sunday's 45-38 loss to the Philadelphia Eagles by our New York Giants.
The Giants gift-wrapped a couple of scores for the Eagles with turnovers and mistakes. They made some big plays of their own, but not nearly enough. Opportunity knocked everywhere, both offensively and defensively, much of the night. Too often, though, the Giants could not get the job done.
It was one of the craziest, most exhausting regular-season games I can remember watching. In the end, though, just another bad loss in what is becoming a season filled with them.
The Giants are now 7-6. Their path to the playoffs is clear, though treacherous. The Cowboys are 8-5, and it is pretty obvious the final NFC playoff spot will go to either Dallas or the Giants and the Giants own the tie-breaker advantage. Somehow, some way the Giants need to win one more game than the Cowboys during the final three weeks.
Otherwise, no playoffs for the first time since 2004. On with the 'Kudos & Wet Willies,' which look a little bit unusual this time around.
Kudos to ...
- Eli Manning: Eli was brilliant Sunday night. In my mind, he played as well as a quarterback can play. The stats (27-of-38, 392 yards, three touchdowns) don't begin to describe it. Of his 11 incompletions there were nine -- yes, nine -- balls Giants receivers could have or should have caught. The fumble when he fell awkwardly and lost the ball as he hit the ground was a freak play. He had made an uncharacteristically nity run on the play. Can't kill him for it.
- DeSean Jackson: It's not often I will give 'Kudos' to an opposing player, but this guy is just phenomenal.
- Ahmad Bradshaw: Following a theme we seem to have developed here, Bradshaw stepped up and made some big plays. A 17-yard run. A 31-yard pass reception. The Giants didn't get enough of those from other guys Sunday night.
- Big Blue View Nation: More than 2000 comments between the two Game Threads. The Giants couldn't step up and make big plays, but you guys did.
Kwillies to ...
A 'Kwillie,' for those who don't know, goes to players who did things that kept both teams in a game. Half 'Kudo,' half 'Wet Willie.'
- The Giants receiving corps: There were a lot of great plays by Giants receivers Sunday night. But, an incredible number of opportunities they failed to take advantage of. Let me summarize.
Hakeem Nicks -- A 68-yard touchdown catch and run. Nice, sure. But, three drops. Including one on a long ball when he was 5 yards behind the defense.
Steve Smith -- Seven catches and broke the Giants' single-season receiving record previously held by Amani Toomer. But, two missed opportunities. Both on catches that were difficult, but plays a No. 1 Pro Bowl receiver needs to make. Particularly the one in the end zone where he had both hands on the ball and could not corral it.
Kevin Boss -- A career-best seven catches. But, Boss could not corral a beautiful throw by Manning in the second half that he had both hands on. In the fourth quarter of a game with so much at stake, you have to make that play. By the way, guess what? If Boss makes that catch the Giants have first down at Philly's 17. The next play was the 3rd and 5 draw any of you are killing.
(I am saving Mario Manningham for later. You know what that means.)
- Brandon Jacobs: Fifteen carries for 60 yards, and lots of hard, knock defenders over, running (where has that been, Jake?). But, an uncharacteristic fumble that ended up being returned for a touchdown.
- Michael Boley: Eleven tackles, but a huge missed opportunity when he had a potential game-tying interception in his hands toward the end of the first half and could not corral it.
- Osi Umenyiora: A sack and forced fumble in his role as pass-rush specialist. That's the good stuff. But, several times when Osi was in the game the Eagles took advantage by running right at him for big gains.
- Kevin Gilbride: You have to give your offensive coordinator some credit when a team compiles an astounding 512 yards of total offense, which the Giants did Sunday night. But, you also can question taking the ball out of Eli's hands on the failed 3rd and 5 draw play in the fourth quarter. It may have been his only bad play call of the night, but as many of you have already pointed out the failure to score points there was a killer. Taking the ball out of Eli's hands, especially the way he was playing, was the wrong choice.
- Domenik Hixon: A 61-yard catch and run for a score. That's the good stuff. Losing contain on Jackson's 72-yard punt return and a pair of fumbled kickoffs is the bad. When does D.J. Ware get a crack at being the primary kickoff return man?
Wet Willies to ...
- Aaron Rouse and Aaron Ross: Both guys got burned down the field by DeSean Jackson, Ross for an easy, back-breaking 60-yard touchdown. Rouse would have given up one, as well, but Donovan McNabb missed a wide open Reggie Brown.
- The defense as a whole: Missed opportunities, blown coverages, little pressure on Donovan McNabb, and a complete inability to make a stop whenever one was needed. The inspired effort against Dallas gave me hope. This one left me feeling, again, that this group just isn't good enough.
- Bill Sheridan: See all of the above about the defense. I couldn't argue with more than one or two of Sheridan's calls Sunday night. But, the overall performance of this group has to fall on his shoulders. And it just has not been good enough.
- Special teams: Bad penalties, a punt return surrendered for a touchdown, two fumbled kickoff returns, less than adequte kickoff return coverage, ineffective returns all night. Yes, Fred Robbins blocked an extra point, but that's about the only thing the special teams did right. At some point, special teams coach Tom Quinn has to answer for the fact that week after week the Giants' special teams don't measure up.
- Mario Manningham: How difficult is it for an NFL receiver to learn to run down the field and stay in-bounds? Manningham should have scored two touchdowns Sunday night. Instead, he ran himself out of bounds on both plays. He has done that consistently this season, and it is largely what has cost him his starting job. He is an exciting player, but he has to learn how to run a pass route on the sidelines. Otherwise, how can Eli trust him and throw the ball out there?
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I can’t get mad at anything that happened offensively last night. You score 38 points, and put up 500 yards, you are supposed to win, end of story.
This is the single worst Giants defense I have ever seen. There is talent on this defense, but something isn’t right. A few times the Giants defense went to the line of scrimmage barking at each other, looking very confused. “300” pep talks aside, Sheridan has not had this defense ready to play for too many games this year, he has to go.
Giants football is about defense, always has been, always will be. When the Giants play defense the way they have most of this season, changes have to be made. Sheridan has to go.
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Dec 14, 2009 8:27 AM EST reply actions
One more thing: Jeff Feagles, thanks for the memories, please retire at seasons end.
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Dec 14, 2009 8:29 AM EST up reply actions
Feagles
I think you are right. He’s done.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 14, 2009 8:35 AM EST up reply actions
Add McKenzie, Pierce & Robbins to start ...
but I’m sure that’s just a partial list.
I'd be O.K. with keeping Blackburn for depth ...
but not Clark.
Blackburn is a special teams guru
not the best guy on the D, but you cant argue against his ST play
by Gmen Fan in Gmen Land on Dec 14, 2009 8:57 AM EST up reply actions
much as it pains me to say it
I agree with you. Feagles has just not been that good this year.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Absolutely right about Sheridan
and I’m going to be one ticked off Giants fan if TC plays his loyalty card and keeps Sheridan after the season. How can this defense still be so confused as to what is going on this late in the season?
Sentimentality ...
is a dangerous trait in the Not For Long league.
How long did it take Spags to break in his system … two weeks ?
all i want for Christmas....
is Sheridan’s pink slip
by Gmen Fan in Gmen Land on Dec 14, 2009 8:57 AM EST up reply actions
The Giants
cannot not afford to enter the 2010 season with BS has the DC.
So true
It seemed like our defense was lost, talking to each other right before snaps as to who covers where. Let’s keep that base D in more! I can’t stand seeing Boley 20 yards down field with his back to the ball!
by jjamesgrant18 on Dec 14, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
That says it all.
Let’s hope the Panthers fire John Fox in preparation for the Cowher Era. We hire him back as DC/HC-In-Waiting and fix this thing. Rutgers could have played better defense.
On the bright side, Eli was brilliant. Sigh.
I left my swagger in my other pants.
Hixon deserved a Wet Willie. On a Coughlin team you are a returner based on your ability to hold onto the ball… and he coughed it up… TWICE. That is unacceptable, even if he did that great reception for a TD. The defense in general is a mess, and I think Sheridan is a dead man walking at this point, though who will they get in the off-season to replace him?
What is up with Hixon BTW?
One week he looks like the world’s best returner and ST player and the next week he can’t hold on to the ball. He’s as inconsistent as this defense.
Quick note
You wrote under Wet Willies: “Rouse would have given up one, as well, but Donovan McNabb missed a wide open Sheldon Brown.”
It’s actually Reggie Brown. Sheldon is the CB. Remember it this way: Reggie is the untalented one.
Could have been worse, he could have said Jim Brown
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Dec 14, 2009 9:02 AM EST up reply actions
I think a lot of us hardly know where to start in our comments, too ...
but the “preview” to K&WW thread noted that we can’t let McNabb “get comfortable”.
Well, he had his recliner back and his feet up. No pressure to speak of all game. None.
The good news is – if we win out, we’ll likely get the wild card, and we may actually have our fate back in our hands before kick-off Monday night.
The bad news – I can’t see a team that plays like this going 3-0 any part of the season.
Defensive Game Planning
I think a lot of us get caught up and looking at the X’s and O’s throughout the game on defense. I think Brian Kelly said it best during his press conference, “coaches don’t win with X’s and O’s on Saturdays, they win with X’s and O’s on Monday-Friday”.
I think that’s 100% true. Our guys blow more coverages than I have ever seen from any team. If we were practicing well during the week, the guys would look prepared when they go out on the field. I blame Sheridan more for his inability to get his players prepared during the week than I do for his calls during the games (an I hate his calls during the game). Our defensive guys look like chickens with their heads cut off out there.
Oh well I totally agree. The Giants have looked too many times like they had no clue what the other team liked to do. It was like Andy Reid signed DeSean Jackson off the practice squad on Friday, for as well as the Giants knew what he was capable of.
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Dec 14, 2009 8:57 AM EST up reply actions
Jackson
How can the Giants leave him single-covered by a safety, albeit Aaron Ross who has corner skills, 50 yards down the field? That just can’t happen.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 14, 2009 8:58 AM EST up reply actions
The way Ross played it
made it look like he thought he had help on that side of the field. Not sure if it was a blown coverage or if Ross was mistaken. But either way, that is unacceptable.
ESPN showed the play
this morning. It looked like Michael Johnson got caught up inside where he didn’t belong.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 14, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
I seen it too.
He hesitated for a second, and that’s all it takes.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
Michael Johnson
I can only recall Johnson being in there for 1 defensive play – the same play where he was out of position and let Jackson run right by him for the TD that ultimately turned the table back to Philly. He is the WORST player on the Giants team. I don’t care to hear about comparing different positions is like apples-to-oranges blah blah blah. Bottom line, he doesn’t do one thing well on the field. He can’t tackle (tries to tackle high and never wraps up), he can’t make a play on the ball or the opposition, he’s never in position, and he has no clue how to make in-play adjustments. The fact that that moron is still getting playing time just lets me know that Sherridan is not cut out for this job, let alone all of the other blatant reasons we need a new DC ASAP.
C.C. Brown
Give C.C. Brown 3 years (as he’s only had a month or so) in the Giants system and I promise you he’s leaps and bounds better than Johnson. I’m not sure how Johnson was ever drafted. But I can agree that C.C. is 2nd worse.
Re: Jackson
I can’t believe Sheridan did not try and take him away with double coverage, especially after Maclin went down. the corners were just turning Jackson over to the safety’s like he was a nobody, no special attention or game planing. Anytime you let Jackson one on one with your safety that’s a mis match
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
Absolutely Right
And for this alone, missing such an obvious point, BS has got to go.
by Deal With It on Dec 14, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Defensive Play calls
how many times do we have to watch D-lineman drop into coverage looking totally confused? Yeah it worked once last week vs Dallas. Outside of that it’s been a monumental failure.
We have the perfect Crap storm on D
Our Defensive game planning is putrid and on top of that our players are just collecting a pay check out there. last 8 games we are 2-6 and the 2 games we won our D did not help at all. and the 6 games we lost were mostly because our D flat out stunk up the joint.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
Lack of pressure
on the QB is the single biggest problem with this defense. I can’t blame a safety who converted from CB 2 weeks ago, and a safety who was picked up off the street….or any of the other secondary for that matter…for not being able to cover talented receivers for over 4 seconds every play. That’s just too much to ask.
agreed
Is it to early to call Canty a failure at DT?
yea its about that time
every time i singled out canty to watch what he does he was stuffed at the line.. most of the time by only one O-lineman. i just dont understand how i guy that size gets next to ZERO push on every single play.. did he have one tackle last night?
cant wait til the draft… first round MLB, second round DT
by Gmen Fan in Gmen Land on Dec 14, 2009 8:53 AM EST up reply actions
If Canty's a bonafide bust ...
that is going to hurt our cap situation for years.
Let’s hope it was injuries, and he rebounds next year.
trade him for..
draft picks.. im sick of him already
by Gmen Fan in Gmen Land on Dec 14, 2009 9:04 AM EST up reply actions
There's not much value there
right now. You don’t want to sell low. We just have to stick with him for now.
Is it the player's fault...
if he is constantly put into a position that doesn’t allow him to be most effective? I blame it on Sherridan. Why don’t the Giants try mixing it up a bit like they promised… maybe move Canty to DE with Tuck playing right next to him at DT.
I understand he hasn’t played much at all this season, which would define him as a bust for the amount of money he’s making, but let’s not drop the curtains too soon. When he’s been in there I’ve seen him create confusion for the offense and get pentration. He was monster in Dallas playing next to Ware, which helped both of them. But we have some serious talent on this D, especially on the line (which I still consider the deepest in the NFL), and we only have 26 sacks this season (22nd in the NFL). That is plain and clear to me – it’s not the players that aren’t getting the job done, it’s the scheme they’re given. I thought this year’s D playbook was going to be just like Spag’s scheme, I guess it comes down to calling the right play at the right time. Blame it on Sherridan.
He did play D-End when he came back from injury
they then moved him to D-Tackle to replace Robbins. He sucked at End too. He just sucks he’s no good and big waste of money.
Agreed... It's not the schemes it's the pass rush
Our secondary is not good at the moment, but the problem is our pass rush… Osi, Kiwi, Tuck, Canty, Robbins, Cofield -can’t get pressure on the QB. Our secondary and LBs are not good enough allow effective blitzing (as we saw last night)-particularly ineffective and sluggish blitzing.
I am not sure about Sheridan, but it was not the schemes last night that were the problem. In part, I think Osi has not really matured as a pass rusher in the way that Strahan improved and gained through wiles and technique as his physical assets diminished and as lines grew accustomed to him. In the long term frankly, I am more concerned about the D line, than either the LBs (I like Boley and Sintim, and have hopes for Kehl and Goff) or the Secondary (though it would kill if Phillips is effectively done)…
because you put -'s around text
If you put a space between the words and the dash it won’t cross it out.
- like this. -
Otherwise it looks like this.
I agree...
the secondary really has never been the strength. Webster, Thomas and Ross are good, that’s not a question.
Its the fact that they aren’t good at playing zone, but can’t play man either cuz there’s no pass rush.
The Giants when they are good, rely on a pass rush from the front 4. Its that plain and simple.
No pass rush, D stinks. That’s it.
Is that on Sheridan? I dunno. I’m thinking its on the fact they don’t have one guy that wore #92 who knew how to adjust to the way teams were attacking him, or at least tell the other guys what they are doing.
Tuck and Kiwi were good last year, but they got figured out. They don’t know how to adjust. That’s a combo of coaching, injuries and experience.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
Disagree
The problem was definitely the scheme. Even if it was a case of our D-Lineman not getting enough pressure on the QB by themselves than the coach should have made an adjustment and switched up the blitzes and playcalling.
I can agree with you in that losing KP hurt more this year than anything else has and we’d better figure out his replacement in the offseason if he doesn’t come back. But there’s one other position we need to replace this offseason… DC.
I think Tucks injury hurt us more than Kenny
He can’t play at DT this year and that was why we havent gotten much pressure. It forces Kiwi to play DT and that just doesnt work. He isn’t too effective at DE as well. In the offseason he needs to get a lot of rest and repair his shoulder / foot / whatever else is bothering him.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Dec 14, 2009 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
Also, watching the way KG calls so many run plays in the red zone ...
you begin to think it’s not confidence in the run game as much as a lack of pass plays in the gameplan that he feels confident in down close.
Many other teams have a variety of creative pass plays they save for red zone situations. Having Boothe go out on a pass play tacke-eligible was his one attempt at creativity, but the way he was covered like a blanket seems to indicate KG was relying on them forgetting he checked in with the refs, with no other deception involved.
that play was a disgrace
waste of a 2nd down inside the 10 if u ask me.. might as well try to have eli run it in.
by Gmen Fan in Gmen Land on Dec 14, 2009 8:55 AM EST up reply actions
We still scored a TD on that drive
I am no KG fan but last night you could not fault him or the O. They did everything they could to win the game. I thought TC should have gone for it when we were on there 45 instead of punting because I knew our D could not stop anybody, and sure enough the eagles go 90 yards down the field without one 3 rd down converstion.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 9:49 AM EST up reply actions
Romeo Crennel
I’m never one to say this but I think Bill Sheridan’s tenure as defensive coordinator will end after this season. It seems like every week there’s blown coverage or the opposing team firing a 50 yard bomb. I feel like ANY TEAM can easily convert a 1st down on us and if we do stop them, it was just a matter of luck.
Anwyay, why don’t we pick up someone like Romeo Crennel. He has history with us and has done wonders on defense as a coordinator.
Wade Phillips...
he’ll be after a job at the end of the season!
We definitely need a top notch coordinator....
None of this first time defenisive coordinators thing.. hell, Phillips is awesome as a coordinator.. not as a coach. Look at what Greg Williams did to New Orleans with that Saints defensive roster.
by uberfunction on Dec 14, 2009 8:59 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed...
My comment on Phillips was only part in jest – a little ribbing of the Cowboys but the guy knows how to run a defense. And hell any inside information he could bring with him would also not go amiss…
Rob Ryan
It would of been great if we lured Rob Ryan before this season.
by uberfunction on Dec 14, 2009 9:04 AM EST up reply actions
John Fox
I’m not sure if he’ll be fired, but the fact that Cowher has been liked there for years makes it more likely.
I think he is gone......
Fox would be a nice fit here.
Fox was a great fit here during the Fassell years but I think it would be highly unlikely that he would take a coordinator position especially after (some) of his success with the Panthers as a head coach.
by uberfunction on Dec 14, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
It depends on how many openings are available this year
if there are a lot Fox is getting one of those jobs if he’s fired this year if not he would be a great fit. TC has a lot of respect for him and the Giants front office loves him like they did TC. They wanted to make Fox head coach after the 01 season to replace Fassel becasue they knew they might loose him and felt he was a better coach.
Romeo Crennel?
you know the pats’ defensive coordinator was really Belichick, not this guy.
I don’t think he’ll be much better.
Bill come back please, we’ll even give you a sb42 ring
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
"Osi is probably one of our worst db's but he did alright there"
Playoffs??? You kidding me?
After watching football this past Sunday, it’s pretty clear that the NFC east teams are no threat in the playoffs. As for the Giants, why bother making the playoffs? They may get the last playoff spot, but whats the point? To get embarassed again by philly or arizona. Do we really think they could go to New Orleans and win? Lets just get embarassed again on Monday night in Washington and call it a season.
So
using that logic we should have not bothered turning up in the 2007 playoffs especially when we went on the road to Dallas and Green Bay.
Oh and the SB against the unbeaten Pats who had beaten us just weeks before.
We can still make the playoffs and then we can moan after the season has finished.
by G Fan in England on Dec 14, 2009 9:03 AM EST up reply actions
If your suggesting that this team can get hot?
What reason can the D, or ST’s for that matter give me that hope? This is Sheridan, not Spags!
Stranger
things have happened although I concede it is not likely to happen with BS running the defence.
In reality a wasted year….but I am still hopeful we can keep the playoff streak alivr!
by G Fan in England on Dec 14, 2009 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
Considering the 2007 D up until now
Some of the players are the same, but the results and intensity are all but disappeared. This D and it’s expectations are nothing more than a shell of itself. Age and injury factors have caught up, and seemingly quick.
2006 Colts
They lost 4 of their last 7 games. In those 7 games the Cots D was terrible. Allowing almost 25 points per game. In the playoffs, especially the first 2 rounds they made a miraculous recovery.
hmmm
some manning magic could be the trick…
although in all fairness, they had a 4 game lead in their division
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
"Osi is probably one of our worst db's but he did alright there"
I think Giants Nation's point is....
In 2007 the team was playing well. We almost beat the Patriots, we had a nice win against the Bills in Buffalo. This year, if the team makes the playoffs, it will be because we backed into a spot due to Dallas’ losing. This team doesn’t look deserving of a playoff spot. The 2007 team showed signs of life.
Couldnt have said it better gmen 08
The 07’ team was much different. That team showed signs of life and a swagger that this team is missing. I remember watching the week 17 matchup vs the Pats and saying the Giants would make some noice in the playoffs. I had so much confidence that i flew to Tampa and went to the game. There’s no chance i would drive 2 hours down to Philly to watch this current team play in the wild card game. This years team has had defensive problems all year, and cant seem to make adjustments. They try putting band aids on large wounds with weekly personnel changes. It doesnt seem to be working. Collinsworth said last night, “i havent seen so many blown coverages in a game before.” Well guess what Chris, we’ve been seeing it all year. People keep talking about the giants winning their next two games, however this giant team could easily get embarassed by the skins on Monday night.
by GiantsNation on Dec 14, 2009 9:27 AM EST up reply actions
Totally disagree
Yes our D sucks ass and can cost us big but if the O plays with some consistencey and controlls the clock like last night anybody can beat anybody. NO, Phlly, and ARZ rely on 60 yard bombs to win games that won’t last throughout the playoffs I doubt any of them win the SB this year.
yup.
Plain ain simple…this loss sucks, but we’re still in it.
I think they are capable of putting together a few key stops should they make the playoffs…and that’s all that mattesr.
We don’t have to be the 2007 D.
We have an offense now capable of big plays (thanx to Citizen Echo Drive Unstoppablness)
Make a few key stops. That is all.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
The positive right now
is that we have a sweep over the girls and they run into the buzzsaw known as New Orleans next week without D Ware. Hopefully, we can handle the Skins.
Last night was the first time
they showed that commercail last night while Eli was playing good for the first time
How many times since 06 do they show that Citizen commercail only to have Eli totally suck it up. He’s throwing pick 6’s and Citizen Cho Drive is telling me he’s unstopable!
Are we watching the same Giants team?
“I think they are capable of putting together a few key stops should they make the playoffs”-FreeBradshaw
maybe I havent been watching the same giants defense that you’ve been, but what in the world leads you to believe they could make a few key stops?? Oh thats right we are talking about the key stops they got at the end of the SD game, and the stops with a 2 TD lead vs ATL, and the Key stop when we had a lead yesterday for about 15 seconds. We are talking about the leagues worst RedZone defense. When you need key stops the most, we dont get them.
I’m a die hard just like the rest of you, but you have to be realistic about this. The top teams like NO and MINN are in a different class.
by GiantsNation on Dec 14, 2009 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
that last part may be so...
yet, I sure as hell didn’t see Philly scoring on 100% of their drives, so maybe you’re not watching the same game I’m watching.
They are capable of making a few stops.
They get marched on for about 2-3 TD’s a game. Obviously not the championship D’s they’ve had in the past.
They made a few stops. I saw that.
Then..they give the ball back.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
Stop the Daydreaming
Exacatly how much evidence do you need to accept reality. Look at our defeats for God’s sake. Look at the scores, General agreement that last night had most blown coverage by a defense EVER. This isn’t a bad defense, its a non-functional one. We aren’t going to beat any of the remaining teams on our schedule, including DC, if the D played like it did last night. Eli may be great, but his receivers aren’t at the same level, and as last night’s game proved, this O cannot overcome the D’s shortcomings.
by Deal With It on Dec 14, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Citizen echo drive commercials
are always poorly placed. Usually after an eli pick.
Not yesterday though.
Besides that fumble that really shouldn’t have been a fumble (they should have given us a break b/c they blew the other fumble dead that would have been the difference), eli was awesome.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
"Osi is probably one of our worst db's but he did alright there"
Overhaul D
You said it Ed.
“Opportunity knocked everywhere….though, the Giants could not get the job done.”
Robbins, Bernard, AP and Clark should all be elsewhere.
Decisions are due on Blackburn ( a worthy backup), Goff, Sintem ( a DE or an LB) and Canty ( a DE or a DT?).
Safe to say the D may look very different. Sheridan has proven he is in over his head. Front seven a big disappointment.
On O, another year of experience will help the WRs. The line needs an infusion of youth and athleticism. Beatty should start at one tackle. Depth should be a draft priority.
Canty
deserves another season. He did have a calf injury that has probably limited his effectiveness.
He missed training camp as well
Canty needs another year
by mclaren_is_the_best on Dec 14, 2009 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
Positive and negative
Does this game have the feel that the 2007 regular season game against the Pats did?
I think so – we played well on offence and could and should have scored more points. Yes we were on the end of some fluke plays – the Brown fumble return, the non fumble call on the Osi sack and the Manning fumble when he went to the ground.
So to be positive the offence can play better even after 500 yards and 38 points.
The negative is just where the improvement on defence is going to come from combined with poor special team play.
We have two winnable games up next and then we take stock facing the Vikings.
by G Fan in England on Dec 14, 2009 8:59 AM EST reply actions
I couldn’t disagree with you more. That Pats game was a tale of a team that played its heart out, and came up short. Last night’s defense looked overmatched and underprepared from the first drive of the game.
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Dec 14, 2009 9:01 AM EST up reply actions
Oh well
Bang goes that ray of hope!
I still think we can make the playoffs by winning our next two games assuming Dallas continues to struggle.
by G Fan in England on Dec 14, 2009 9:06 AM EST up reply actions
Sorry, didn’t mean to wet your charcoal, but while I appreciate your optimism, I just don’t think this team has it in them to accomplish what that team did.
A better comparison for this team may be the 1988 Giants. That team was eliminated on the last day of the season, by the Jets of all teams. As the Giants walked off the field after that game, Bill Parcells knew the 1986 magic was gone, and that he was looking at a team that had to make changes. We may be looking at something like that here.
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Dec 14, 2009 9:12 AM EST up reply actions
When you say changes
Do you mean coaches or players or both?
We do have a young team but I agree some of the old guys have got old in a blink of an eye (Feagles, Osi, Robbins, McKenzie, Clark, Pierce).
Wow that suddenly becomes a long list!!
by G Fan in England on Dec 14, 2009 9:18 AM EST up reply actions
Well definitely the guys you mentioned, and I think this team needs an attitude shakeup.
I also think the O-line needs an overhaul.
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Dec 14, 2009 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
Hey
I hit the peaks and valleys as much as any fan.
I am happy that the offence scored alot of points because as long as we are scoring we are still in the game and just need the bounce of the ball or the rub of the green etc to give us a winning chance.
No disrespect taken – after all I have only seen highlights of games and not suffered each blown coverage.
by G Fan in England on Dec 14, 2009 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
Great Analogy to the 1988 team
the 1990 Giants had a lot of different guys as compared to the 86 team. They had different O-lines RB’s and WR’s. Simms, Bavaro and Oats were the only holdover starters. Other than Marshall, LT and Banks all of the other defensive starters were different in 90. In 88 they lost leaders like Carson and G. Martin to retirement and relied on young guys like Banks and Peper Johnson to take the leadership rolls. Similar to this team they had a great draft in their Super Bowl year drafting 4 guys in 86 that eventually started on the 1990 team, Peper Johnson, Eric Dorsey, Eric Howard, and Mark Collins. The 07 team had Aaron Ross, Smitty, Boss who already start and maybe Alford ends up starting. I was thinking about that 88 team earlier in the year. In 88 the D struggled to replace Harry Carson big time he was aging and banged up a lot the D was very suspect that year even Jim Burt’s play was decling that year and our saftey’s absouloutley sucked that year we got burned all of the time by the likes of the Rams and Niners while Simms was coming into his own as a QB.
38 points is showing heart?
yeah it was the ’07 Pats, not the ’09 eagles, but the games were similar
That doesn’t mean the results will be the same (hell, its 99.9999… percent unlikely)
but we have an offense. We used to not have an offense, and a good defense, now we have an awesome offense and a bad defense.
I’d be willing to say we’re a top 5 offensive team. 38 points with what, 5 fumbles, 8 drops?
It means we’ll be getting in alot more shoot outs. If anything, games will be more interesting.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
"Osi is probably one of our worst db's but he did alright there"
Not much positive about the defense
The positive about our defense is they blocked and extra point. don’t even bring up 2007 because our Defense in 07 was playing well. Bill Sheridan has no clue what to do and the effort the players are giving is down right embarrassing. Our offense played great but they can’t have an off night becuae our D is having an off season.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
I disagree too
The Giant D is awful and has been all year. NE worked for their 38 points in that game in 07 Philly looked like it was a 7 on 7 drill. Somethings wrong with the D.
the only positive about last night was Eli and the Giants O figured out Philly’s D for the first time since they lost Plax.
It was great Philly D-backs tried to double Smitty then Nicks would break open then Boss. I think Philly might have to go back to keeping there safteys deep againsts the Giants which will help the run game.
One good thing (way too late)
It was very very nice to see Jacobs laying the lumber a bunch of times this game.. where has that guy been all year? finally got to watch him put his head down and really blast someone… been really missing that.
by Gmen Fan in Gmen Land on Dec 14, 2009 9:03 AM EST reply actions
And again
he didn’t get his 20 carries. I realized last night that most of the reason for that is…we never have a lead. Last year when we led the planet in rushing we had leads and we were clock-killing on the ground. This season we’re down early in almost every game.
And no, that’s not a good enough reason to get away from the run but that seems to be the way BS handles being behind.
We have talent:
… that isn’t gelling. Chemistry is off. The DC does indeed have to go. Trent Dilfer is right:
the Eagles marching down the field on an opening drive, looking unstoppable, in this game, on this night, with what was at stake, is unacceptable. Like Wade Phillips’ going for it on fourth down early in the game yesterday, this, letting the Eagles march, is THE reason for a firing. DBs looking as if they got hit with a cartoon anvil after giving up a big play, having no idea who was supposed to be where: unacceptable and on BS. Coughlin? He gets another year to turn this around. The nucleus is there. But DL changes, OL changes,
DB changes, BIG changes are in order. The WRs reverted to the dropsies one too many times, but they are not the problem. Eli will always be Eli, hot and cold, flabbergasting and beautiful to watch, that’s him. The RBs… we might need to rethink this as well. Right now, even with retooling, we’re a wild card team at best (as I’ve said all along), and that’s in 2010, hypothetically, of course. No more blinders folks. This team has been mediocre of over a year now. Let’s call them what they are and have been — frustratingly, almost Ok.
91 yards without a 3rd down...
Possibly even worse than letting them march down field on the opening drive? Letting them go 91 yards in 12 plays without forcing a 3rd down when the game is on the line and a stop leaves you within 6! That is unacceptable – and maybe just highlights the lack of talent or cohesiveness or whatever is that is causing the D to just implode on a regular basis…a new DC, some new blood in the front 7 and some help at DB – there’s a helluva lot of holes to fill right now…
yeah, just OK
but the telent level is better than that.
So where doe the fix begin? DC absolutely. TC? I wonder if he gets another year. WAY too much inconsistency and that is partly on the coach. 11-1 last year then a fade.
5-0 this year and then the wheels fall off.
If we could get Cowher I would LOVE that infusion of toughness
MSP
I think a head coaching change is ridiculous. The coach can only do so much, but the players need to make plays…that is what beat us last night…as the title suggests missed opportunities.
Also, one additional Wet Willie…Feagles has been punting since footballs were actually made from pigskin and he takes that kind of angle instead of pushing Jackson back into the coverage…no excuse for that.
Coughlin isn’t going anywhere until he wants to.
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Dec 14, 2009 9:27 AM EST up reply actions
Nor should he
He is an excellent coach. I mean, geez, you are just going to throw away all the good things that have happened because of one off season? That’s silly, and an over-reaction. The Giants played hard last night, they just made a couple of mistakes, and missed opportunities.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 14, 2009 9:49 AM EST up reply actions
Ed, I agree Coughlin should stay....
but the Devil’s Advocate would point toward the consecutive 1st round flameouts, inconsistent and undisciplined play for years, and failures to select top notch coordinators (KG and BS). If Coughlin didn’t have the playoff run he did in 2007, he probably wouldn’t be here right now. So I think that the people that wanted him gone then don’t want him staying now just because Tyree caught a football against his helmet.
I think Coughlin is fine…but he needs to shake up his coaching staff. Coughlin needs to hold the Special Teams coach and Defensive Coordinator accountable. I’d like to see KG gone too, but I know your view on that.
KG doesn't deserve to go.
For real….even his only bad call of the game last night could’ve been negated by Kevin Boss making a catch.
The defense has to make stops.
The Eagles didn’t make many mistakes did they? And the Giants still scored 38 points?
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
We can argue all day....
I don’t want to argue about KG because last night the offense was great and I know I could argue all day about his ineptness.
I’m not ready to give credit to KG for Nicks making a catch, breaking a tackle, putting a spin move on a guy and racing to the house. I’m also not ready to give him credit for Hixon taking a 7 yard pass and breaking 2 tackles while taking it to the house. A lot of people want to blame the players when we play poorly and praise the coaches when we play well. Well, these two TDs were on the PLAYERS, not the coach. Give credit where credit is due.
But I digress…as I do not wish to argue about KG today and I wish to complain about BS.
Yes...
yet, why did Nicks have to make that play in the first place? Cuz he pulled a Dominik Hixon two plays before and dropped a perfectly floated ball.
Why did the Giants have 3 on the board instead of 7? Cuz Manningham doesn’t know where he is.
Why did they go 3 and out on one series? Cuz Nicks dropped a ball on 2nd down that was for a first.
Why did it take so long to score a TD on one drive? Cuz Steve Smith dropped a catch in the EZ..again.
Why did the infamous 3rd an 5 happen? Cuz Boss dropped a pass on 2nd down.
Why did it take so long to get their last TD? Cuz Manningham doesn’t know where he is…again.
….Lots of offense…yet, key plays man…KEY FKING PLAYS these were.
We’re not talking about overthrown balls. We’re talking about wide open WR, perfectly thrown balls (not behind the man..PERFECTLY THROWN BALLS)
These players have to make these plays.
The defense SUCKED…but I’ve come to expect it. You gotta make these plays on offense.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
Some agreement
Players do have to make plays. But, I think Manningham is taking a bad rap for not getting his feet in. The playcall, a fade, is thrown as soon as Manning gets the ball. Manningham is running to the ball at that point. It isn’t like what Collinsworth was saying, that he isn’t giving himself enough room. That is only the case when he is running a streak down the sideline and Manning is trying to fit it in. But with a fade in the corner of the endzone he is just trying to track down the ball.
I didn’t like the back to back fade plays inside the 10 yard line either. I remember when we played San Diego and didn’t go for the win, KG said after the game that he didn’t have a pass play to score there because the defense was playing the goalline. Well, I now believe him that he doesn’t have passing plays to score in the redzone because it showed with those 2 playcalls back to back.
If I was manning
which obviously i’m not, as soon as I saw that blitz, I’m calling a hot route for manningham to go over the middle
Easy six, noone guarding
Its what teams do against us all the time.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
"Osi is probably one of our worst db's but he did alright there"
And out of all those miscues
The offense still put up 38 in a losing effort. SOB’ing D! (shaking my head)
yup.
and I’m not excusing the D, they stink.
BUT…those key plays…keep the D off the field and more importantly, Desean Jackson off the field (whether by offense of punt return).
You gotta make the plays when they are there.
Something that’s a tough play would be the Steve Smith juggling attempt on third down. That’s excusable cuz its a tough play.
The others? Inexcusable.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
This definitely could have been
a 52 point game for the Giants. Drops in the end zone. HAM’s out of bounds catches. Can we hire Toomer as a pediatrist (foot specialist)?
Still, I am excited about the future of our WR. Nicks and HAM can both become pro bowlers. Swiss already is. But I have to believe that 1 or 2 of the 3 will become true possession receivers. Get open, catch everything, stay in bounds. Swiss is really close to being that guy.
Exactly, Free
Boss makes the catch KG never makes that call. Players have to make plays, period. Last night, when Giants players had chances to do that they failed. That’s why the Giants lost.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 14, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
Decision making
We played zone defense all night. No targeted coverage on Jackson. After Maclin got hurt, Jackson should have been double-teamed all night. Look at the Jets – they put Revis and a safety on Moss. We put no one in particular on Jackson. And it hurts that our blitzes never seem to work. Why is that?
In the preseason there was a poll on this blog as to who to keep as the 7th receiver. Given our special teams coverage all year, anyone want to rethink keeping Tyree?
If we had a real Defensive Coordinator he would have doubled Jackson
I don’t understand how you let Jackson run free through a zone defense and expect to win. This Jackson is a stud and the key to their offense on top of that the guy has amazing speed so the kept letting him get behind the safeties.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
That's the million dollar question
Why would you not double their only homerun threat? Knowing how bad our secondary is and Jacksons abilbity for the big play, why not double team him. That right there shows how clueless BS is.
BS is horrible
He is so bad that I am not even worried about him anymore, no way does JR bring him back.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
Such a twist of fate...
from last week when we were the lesser team on paper, but came out with the win thanks to a punt return and a early fumble recovery leading to a score.
It’s also odd for me to NOT be worried about the offense from a productivity standpoint, but not be sure when we will be able to stop ANYONE.
Gotta look for a playoff push at this point just so we can say that Eli Manning has lead us to the playoffs every year he’s been the starter…once we get there (unless we get to go to Arizona), we have NO shot of winning any games (note: I only give us a SHOT to win against Arizona…in no way a guarantee).
This is the worse Giant Defense I have ever seen
Before I get started, I acutally have to defend KG, I hink he deserves a full Kudo…I think , he had Phily’s D on there Heels. That draw play was about the only thing that made me curse him under my breath. But when you put up overe 500 yards of offense and score 38 points there is nothing more the offense could have done.
Which brings me to our D, what can you say, our D is horrible. Sheridan should do the honorable thing and resign at the end of the season, We need to tottally overhaul this unit. Is it me but why dont they try and double cover Jackson, the corners were letting him release off the line free than they would turn him over to the safteys, by the time the guy was on the safety’s he had a full head of steam. and it was good night. No pressure on Mcnabb, he had all day back there.
Any way, the funny part is we still might make the playoffs, but with our D we are definitly one and done if we do, so I am not going to get worked up.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 9:31 AM EST reply actions
+1 for gilbride... -1 for sheridan
Totally agree with you about Gilbride. Giants receivers were leaking out near the sidelines, over the middle, underneath… even over the top of the defense (can’t get much more open than nicks was on that dropped ball), and had their hands on the ball almost EVERY SINGLE PASSING PLAY of the game. Job well done by KG there.
Hard for me to analyze Sheridan — I’ll give him credit for TRYING just about everything. Playing zone requires a good pass rush, which we don’t have. Playing man requires corners to get up and get physical, which we really didn’t do enough of at all – maybe that’s on Bill, but I tend to think it’s more on the weak secondary.
I think rather than blaming the coaching, it’s time for the 11 guys on defense to take a look in the mirror and do some soul-searching, because it’s pretty clear that there’s a big difference between the talent our fans THINK we have, based on past performance (a vaunted pass rush with the ability to pressure with 4, a secondary capable of staying with receivers, etc.), and the talent we DO have.
I don’t think I have to name names here — the reputation certain players have gained for making plays, and their inability this year to do so when put in the position to, is likely going to cost what is probably a pretty good coordinator his job.
bill sheridan -1000!!
I really hope he isnt back next year.. ive tried to defend him at times this season, playing the “its the players who make the plays card”. but its been obvious now for some time, when you have the opposing team making plays, with NO DEFENDER around then its concept! gameplanning!
and at 90+ yard drive with no , i repeat, NO THIRD DOWNS is horrid. that just showed me that when the eagles wanted to score, they could do it if they really had to against bill sheridan and the D. screen after screen with NO ADJUSTMENT FROM b.s. just like the first drive of the game.
although there were 4 fumbles and other areas of concer.. defense is by far #1 reason for last night. im starting a john fox campaign at seasons end.. even if the giants make a run( which i believe can still happen)
90+ yard drive with no , i repeat, NO THIRD DOWNS is horrid
Sem, I don’t understand why TC did not go for it on the 4th down, I knew our D could not hold them no matter where Feagles kicked it. TC should have no confidence in the D we should have gambled there
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
your right
but im lax on tc after this game.. the only call i didnt like was when he had a personnel change when everyone knew philly was gonna make that challenge..
eli knew what to do.. just let him do it somtimes.coach!.. (jacobs shoulda realized to and waived bradshaw back off) and quick snap and qb sneak or somethin woulda be ok in my eyes
I have to agree with you
And I hate KG. He called a hell of a game. I got miffed on the 3rd and 5 but for the most part job well done.
the 3rd and 5 call
was questionable at best. maybe my eyes were playing tricks on me, but it did look like bradshaw had a huge hole if he took it upfield quicker — i’m not sure if the breakdown on the left side spooked him there because he was planning on taking it left… but it looked funny.
I know I'll get murdered for saying this....
But I think it’s time to trade Osi……..there I said it.
He has
sad to say little trade value – he is not getting the QB pressure and he is a liability against the run.
by G Fan in England on Dec 14, 2009 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
True
But I think Kiwi is just quicker to the play. I know Osi is coming off a bad knee, but I think if we can get at least a #3 that should be something to consider. I think we can move Canty to DE anyway, the DT experiment is a dud….
Osi is pretty much untradeble right now
We can’t get anything for a D end that can’t stop the run and does not get the QB. Canty I never notice him. point is we are gonna have to either signa a FA or draft a DE.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
Osi is our best pass rusher
Leading the team in sacks and was the only one that got a sack last night
No way should we trade him, unless Kiwanuka stops being terrible
by mclaren_is_the_best on Dec 14, 2009 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
murdered?
Why do you think that?
You’re 100% correct, he’s been a waste.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
Usually when a loose ball
is on the field, a player will scoop up the ball and take a mock run to the end zone. Why oh why did this not happen on the McNabb fumble, incompletion. Boley misses the pick and the rest of the D avoided the ball like the plague.
I know...
I watched a replay, and someone was running to it but stopped.
I was screaming, PICK IT UP YOU DUMB BASTARD!!!
the refs sucked period for both sides.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
"Osi is probably one of our worst db's but he did alright there"
Does anyone else see
Manningham playing himself out of a nickname and out of the #3 WR spot? I am so sick with seeing him run himself out of bounds. Note to Gilbride…no more fades or corner routes for Manningham. Kid just can’t handle them.
Ham is a youngester
He needs a lot of work on his route running, but I see potential so don’t give up on him yet. however after watching our recievers drop all those balls yesterday I swear I was missing Plax bad becuase those are the plays he used to make. I still the JR should have got us a veteran Reciever, however our young guys are showing potential so your gonna have to be patient with Ham if he is still doing that next year we have a problem.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
I agree...
give him time, its pretty much route running that’s the problem.
He gives himself more room by selling the route….he probably is in bounds.
Yea, Plaxico stays in bounds there, no question.
…but getting a veteran WR wouldn’t help that….Plaxico himself would help that.
There were no veteran WR available, not unless we didn’t want Hakeem Nicks (which..I think he’s going to be better than anyone we could’ve got).
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
Where's Barden?
Can we activate him and give him a shot?
Forget Bardin
Next season we will see what he has learned and can he apply that to the field. we are fine a WR
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe.
I dunno anymore.
Can Barden sell a route, know where he is and get both feet in bounds?
Can Barden torch a defender like Manningham sure as hell can?
I dunno…I don’t think a different player will help, cuz Ham’s skill-set is the reason why he’s open in the first place.
They gotta work with him at selling that route.
That’s all it is. He does that, he’s a superstar.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
100% agree
Ham WILL be one of the best in the years to come.. the kid needs to learn how to stay in bounds and run routes.. once he gets that down watch out!
by Gmen Fan in Gmen Land on Dec 14, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, i think he needs better concentration
With all things considered when your boxed in along the sideline. He’s young and still learning. It just so happened that Toomer actually perfected the sideline catch whereas some, it may take time!
Veteran WR
What I ment was I thought JR should have pulled the trigger on Boldin without hesitation. To me this is a now team and I didn’t think we had time for learning on the job. However after watching Nicks performance I know we got a keeper, I am just gonna have to stay patient as he grows up.
Plax would help a great deal becuae he could teach the youngsters like Ham how to run that route and let’s face it as good as Smith is this season he drops way to many easy balls, same with Nicks & Ham. Plax made those plays regularly. But that is me just wishing because he is no longer here and in the long run I think we have some great young talent and WR is not our problem.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
Only thing I'll disagree with is the dropped balls.
Plaxico? For real?
Dropped entirely too many balls. Toomer used to too.
I dunno what it is. People always wanna say Eli is inconsistent….but I can’t say I’ve ever seen a QB who’s WR/TE drop passes so consistently.
Its a joke and its been happening to Eli his whole career. Is it cuz he throws the ball to hard?
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
I'll take my chances with Eli
Eli has stepped his game up, he plays with no excuses and is one tough SOB. The recievers drop to many balls that are hitting them in the hands. If Boss catch’s the ball we are not even talking about the 3rd and 5 because we got a 1st down!
I still think Plax caught a lot of balls in the clutch when we needed it, that our WR’s are droping, However he is not here, and our future is brighter than I can ever remember it being at the WR position. I am fine with our young WR’s I just got to live with the mistakes as they learn on the job.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
If inconsistent means Eli has his good days and his bad days, FB,
then I have to concede he’s inconsistent. All QBs are, except for the absolute top shelf ones (whose bad days are too rare to label them inconsistent.). I don’t believe Eli’s as inconsistent as most (e.g., McNabb.) Yesterday, Eli was on fire. He has days like that but not consistently (I don’t think any QB could play that well conistently, although his fumble was a bummer.) His receivers let him down. My God, I’ve never seen guys with great hands, like Boss and Smith, drop so many balls. I think Hakeem will prove to be a sure-handed receiver, but he blew some very catchable balls as well. I find those drops deeply puzzling. Someone in one of the above posts speculates that perhaps Eli throws too hard. I just can’t believe that’s the case. What then? An incredible run of bad luck? That’s the best I can come up with. Washington scares. If they play like they have been, and the Giants provide a replay of yesterday, the Giants won’t win.
He is inconsistent
tho, when you compare him to those that are not machines..(Peyton, Brees)…Eli’s right up there with them all. No more inconsistent than any other normal, upper echelon QB
His WR/TE/RB are more inconsistent then he ever is.
Eli is on the money with far too many passes that are not caught.
I think I was the one that says Eli throws to hard.
Yet…….how can that be true..there’s more than a few QB’s that throw a lot harder than he does.
He throws with touch, excellent touch too…and they still drop it.
Its not incredible bad luck….its happened to Eli Manning since he became the starter for the Giants.
Burress, Toomer, Tyree, Shockey, Boss, Smith, Manningham, Barber, Nicks…whoever the hell you wanna name, these guys have had more drops than anyone.
I can’t believe its that he throws to hard. I have no idea what it is.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
i dont think i would put all of the inconsistency on eli’s shoulders he throws the ball to his receivers great and alot of times i watch him play thinking to myself “why did the receiver do that”. Manning is a great qb and he has a win at all cost attitude. i think that is what might make him look so inconsistent. i remember when he threw that pass with his left hand. i try not to fault people for trying as hard as they can to win but it def has down sides
That's what I'm saying....
a whole lot of the inconsistency is not Eli Manning.
Its his WR. Its the playcalling taking the ball out his hands. Its WR not running the right route/knowing where they are.
See…the think when you have players like Desean Jackson and Jeremy Maclin is……..a go route or a deep post is easy when you’re that fast.
The Giants don’t have a elite speed weapon like that…never did.
They have plenty of weapons, but route running is not really an issue when you have Jackson’s speed. He’s not the greatest route runner, but it doesn’t matter cuz of his speed.
Teh Giants WR have good speed, HR hitting speed…but they need to be great route runners cuz they don’t have enough speed to get away with it like Jackson.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly i was scared about jackson his rookie year cuz he cant run toutes worth a crap. thank god he is a speed demon. good thing bout route running tho is that you can improve it. you can get faster but your not gunna become lighting quick. you can learn how to run routes. i think that your wrs will learn by next season or sooner. which is a plus. nicks seems like he is gunna become the go to guy on your team
As much as DJax is gonna suck to see play against the Giants in the years ahead
I hope he stays injury free, just because he is so explosive and crazy to watch in action. If he ever accumulates some nasty injuries, his fall from the league might be epicly fast. Hope not though, I hate to see injuries cut a career short, no matter who they play for.
Also...
I’ll disagree with the ‘now’ team.
Yea, they are…but they’re also young.
Hell, the Eagles didn’t have to get a veteran did they?
Celek, Avant, Jackson, Maclin, McCoy…these are draft picks.
The Eagles are more of a now team than the Giants cuz of McNabb’s age wouldn’t you think?
Getting a veteran cuz you are a ‘now’ team makes no sense.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
the WR
are not the problem. its the pathetic defense.
this is the first year Manningham has played (rookie year barely) and for Nicks. We expect them to be Plaxico Burress so quick. Relax. I really think their doing a great job out there.
No.
I didn’t expect them to be Plaxico. They are Plaxico right now. They are dropping these key passes…like has plagued Eli his whole career.
I expected these guys to catch the damn ball.
They caught it…yes.
But tell me…why are guys like Brees and Warner completely 30/35 passes? Cuz the WR/TE catch the damn ball when its right on the money.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
WR
We are just having a sidebar, obviously both Free and i love our young guys
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Despite all those drops yesterday,
I’m not concerned about the quality or depth of our receiving corps.
no not at all....
but those drops/awareness cost us as much as the D.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
Can'rt disagree with that.
I just have faith they’ll get better. They’re all still wet behind the ears. I’m still shocked by the sheer # of drops yesterday. As you say, Eli is plagued by receiver drops. Plax and Amani were as guilty as any. although Amani was great on shoe lace grabs and staying in bounds om sideline throws. Plax snagged a quite a few of Eli’s errant sky balls (that other receivers, except Boss, would never have a shot at.
yes..
I will have to say…the 2 HAM TD mistakes, the Smith in the EZ drop, those are catches Amani makes/stays in bounds.
he was a veteran, and certainly stuff like that takes time.
Remember, college WR only gotta get 1 foot in bounds.
HAM is still very young. He has gotten exponentially better this year, and I think he’ll fix it.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
and the good thing about those errant balls....
I really haven’t seen many of them this year.
Eli is here.
The rest of the team needs to be too.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Eli was lights out last night
Could dare use the word Dominant? Yes I can because even the incompletions were on point. The kid had full control of the offense last night.
DOMINANT
is a perfect word.
I would love if they would learn to realize this more as playcalling goes and live and die a bit more by him.
For real, I think if the defense is merely mediocre, the way they’ve been calling the passing game these past 2, he’s Citizen Echo Drive Unstoppable.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
+100
not to mention they’re all young. We’ll be solid in the receiving department for 6-8 years.
Now team
Only reason I said they are a now team is because we won the SB, usually you have about a 4 year window to win another before you have to rebuild. Also this is after we came off of a 12-4 season defending our championship. Obviously I agree with your train of thought now.
Eagles are a now team, I still am not sure if they are good enough to win the whole thing because their D is almost as bad as ours. however they are a better team than us.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
They have a QB. Eli Manning.
He’s gonna be around for a long time too.
They are a now and later team. Boldin helps in the 4 years, Nicks helps us in 8 years.
Nicks is obviously damn good isn’t he?
Its only marginal how much he would’ve helped over Nicks (cuz Steve Smith wouldn’t have all his catches and yards would he?)
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
agreed
Nicks is gonna be somthing special, can’t wait to see him when he understands what he is doing out there and not just playing off of talent. I am willing to wait on him.
As far as the Boldin thing I was giving you my pre season thoughts, obviously Ham steped up out of nowhere and Steve Smith is turning into a better WR than any of us thought he would be.
Factor in Bardin and Bechum growing in year two and our recievers are gonna be good.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
Nicks is going to be a star
and at the beginning of the year, did anyone think that Smith would be the first Giants receiver with 100 catches, it’s right around the corner.
Smith
Funny isn’t it, all the players that came off of that powerful USC team who would have thouht Smith would be the best pro?
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
Unless Boldin was going to play
safety or corner, there was really no need to get an expensive, injury prone receiver.
Manningham still young (23)
We have seen this poor route running all year, but….
> No one ever said he was the brightest bulb; when they talked about his draft class, they talked about how smart Phillips was, and Thomas, and Kehl, and Goff. Not Manningham.
> Nevertheless, his improvement from year 1 to year 2 was terrific. I credit Coughlin and the coaching staff for providing the highly structured environment and the solid coaching that turned an unfocused and immature player into one that works hard to improve. It wouldn’t have happened on some other teams.
> Another offseason of hard work should improve his route running and justify his position.
All of the commentators talk about how hard it is to become an effective NFL receiver. Let’s give him some time before we write him off.
Mickey C
I don't think that
we are writing him off. I think we’re just pissed that he runs himself out of real estate. This is a reocurring problem and he has been in the system for two years. He’s a great athlete and makes plays but at some point, he’s going to have to become more aware of where he is on the field.
exactly.
I am not writing off ANY of the offensive players. Not at all. I think Eli potentially has the best stable of weapons in the league, from Smith, Nicks, HAM, Boss…then to Beckum and Barden potentially, then Jacobs as a power back, AB with speed.
…its just….countless times these guys fail him when he’s got his all out there.
Its happened Eli’s whole career.
The only time they haven’t hurt him………….it was 4 straight games and we won the SB.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Three comments
1. The Eli fumble at the 14 should not have been a fumble. If he did not fumble, but tried to get up and run, would they have called him down by contact?
2. Last week we score on special teams, this week they score. These are pretty special teams.
3. Eagles-Giants games are always weird, wild and wooly.
Eli was the wrong call
as far as I can see he slid knees first. Both his knees were on the turf. Down, play over. Then, he popped over funny from the bad slide and the ground knocked the ball loose.
Anyway, I’m not as pissed as usual because I had the sound off the entire game so I got to watch without the idiocy. But mostly I have to agree with a lot written above. This defense is disgusting. Appalling. And I put it squarely on Sheridan because I think there’s some talent here to work with.
Ultimately, the Giants were the better team out there last night. They absolutely spotted the Eagles 14 in the first 4 seconds of the game, then played decently on offense the rest of the way. All there scores were pretty good, offense was clicking. Coupla shake’n’bakes by the receivers seems to be their special talent… but how the ever-loving fuck do you give up 40+ points to the Eagles twice in one year? That’s just disgusting. Big plays went the Sheagles way. Fumble return? BS. Kick return? BS.
Bill Sheridan? BS.
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Dec 14, 2009 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
We were not the better team
Our Defense could not stop the university of Cincinati’s O!!! Yes the turnovers killed us but Eli and the O got us the lead in the 3rd Qtr only once again for our D to give up the bomb. On the very next play.
I don’t know about you but I am sick and tired of losing to these guys. I can’t give us any credit because we lost. So much on the line and our D plays horrible, we are not going anywhere this year
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
+1000000
the next f*cking play. Let’s not forget we allowed the kickoff to be returned to the 40. Us fans got to enjoy the lead for about 3 seconds. The amount of time the kickoff was in the air.
Yeah, where did he start that return from?
The 15-20 yard line? I was thinking to myself, WTF kind of KO is that?!
Every single time
Tynes kicks off i think that to myself!
by Gmen Fan in Gmen Land on Dec 14, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
#1
I agree. No way would Eli or any player be allowed to get up and continue to run.
I agree with 1
I thought at first he just let it go a little early, thought the play was called dead.
If anything, they should have overturned it b/c of that BS fumble shit that was called dead
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
"Osi is probably one of our worst db's but he did alright there"
Eli's foot is looking fine
but I think the whole D should be listed as questionable for the rest of the year
oops I crapped my pants!
I'm pissed at the defense...
but I gotta say…it could’ve been overcome if some guys on offense would make some catches.
Gilbride’s sole questionable play call???? What happed on second down? Manning slips out of a sack (damn he’s good at that…) throws a perfectly led ball (what else is new..) to Boss..right in his hands..and he fumbles it away…drop.
Story of the game may be how horrible the defense is….but, IMO, there are some guys on offense that have some MFing explaining to do.
Boss on the aforementioned play? Nicks, yest he made up for the drop in the same crazy sequence…yet, there were others, namely one that of course was on 2nd down, and Eli has to make a pass that would’ve been a tough catch to Smith on 3rd down.
We gotta make the catches that give us a 1st down. You just have to. Are they a little tough? Yea, but they are certainly catchable.
Mario Manningham? You gotta know where you are.
The 1st Q EZ catch? You just have to get your feet in bounds there. A good WR would do so.
The 4th Q one? Same thing. He comes in bounds there, there’s still 4 minutes left. 2 timeouts, and the 2 minute warning? You gotta make that catch.
Better route, you gotta sell it more. One on one coverage, all he’s gotta do is sell the slant better.
Really..as bad as the defense and ST played……..
My biggest blame is to the dropped passes (and yea, Steve Smith had one in the EZ too where he cut off a route, ball in his hands…and drops it).
And I’m not even gonna mention the crazy fumble that no one picked up. Boley could’ve should’ve caught it in the first place…but the refs blow the play dead?
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
i agree
there was a lot left on the field last night. I was barking at nicks when he had the dropsies but he made up for it in a big way.
manningham has never been a great route runner/field general… so hopefully he will take a page outta toomers highlight real book and make some adjustments
eli’s fumble… yes, he probably did fall bcuz of the oncoming defense.. but i felt the touch on his heal threw his balance off and made him fall in a clumsy manner. (although he looked fastlast night..funny to say about eli lol)
Manningham is a 2nd year WR.
so…the general rule on WR is that in year 3, you can really trust them or know that you have a player/bust.
I think HAM is a player. He’s a hard worker, and really, its simply selling the route better.
He’s got a lot more talent than Toomer too, I’ll say that.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
Free,
I appreciate your love for Manningham and I agree, I think he’s going to be a star for the Gmen but 2 years in the system is long enough for him to know where he is on the field. Not once, but twice last night, he rode himself out of bounds and I lose count of how many times he has done it this year. He needs to work on his awareness or he shouldn’t be running fades or corner routes. Bubble screens and slants until he realizes where he is on the field.
I agree.
I’ve said what you just said countless times here…I just didn’t mention in that post
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Ham is definitly fustrating us
I got to agree with Free, wait unitl year 3, if he is still running himself out of the play next year than we have a problem.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
WR is sometimes a 4 year learning curve
Toomer did’nt do much till 1999 and even FItzgerald was just pretty good before 06. I love our young WR’s they’re good and despite his drops last night Nicks is going to be very very good, a real big play guy that will make some great catches.
I'll disagree
The offense did a great job of overcoming their mistakes, special team’s mistakes and the D’s mistakes. I can’t even be mad at KG and the 3rd and 5 call. 38 points, and 500 yards of offense (390 yards, 3 TDs, no pics, a questionable fumble by your QB) usually equals a rout, just ask New Oreleans, oh wait…..they play defense down there.
New Orleans had this problem last year didn't they?
Brees tore everyone up…yet, the D couldn’t stop anybody.
Again, I’m saying, KG is to blame for the 3rd and 5. It was a big play and you keep the ball in Eli’s hands, plain and simple.
Not even to score points, but to go with your best option at the time (and Bradshaw was the 3rd best option, behind Jacobs running).
Still, there were catches to be made.
Even for all the offense, its not like we’re talking about over-thrown balls here.
Were talking about easy to semi-moderate difficulty catches here. Boss has to make that catch, it negates the 3rd and 5.
Manningham has to know where he is…it would allow them to keep pace early on or in the 4th, a quicker TD and they may have more time at the end.
Tough to blame the offense…..but its not so tough when you look at the catches they missed.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
NO may have had
that problem last year, but they didn’t have such high expectations for their D. Our front four was suppose to be one for the ages. What was suppose to be our strength has turned out to be one of our big weaknesses.
exactly.
Well, actually NO’s front four, Will Smith, Charles Grant, Senderick Ellis…they had expectations for these guys too.
They have the personnel and a great DC who knows how to use it.
The Giants don’t have a play making LB like Vilma either. They may have one in Goff in the future tho, I think they got their MLB of the future.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
there's others.
Personally….I like Desean Jackson type players and their effect.
I like that sort of gamebreaker speed.
Yea…I’m thinking CJ Spiller.
Sign a safety through FA. Use the first round of this years draft to get a talent like Spiller if he falls.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Brandon. Freaking. Spikes.
If there’s any benefit to this Season of Suck it’s that we’re moving up on the draft list. We need a fire-breathing MLB. Spikes is one.
I left my swagger in my other pants.
Disagree.
I like Goff. I think he’s our LB of the future. He’s very smart. Spikes…is not.
If we get a MLB in the draft, its Rolano McClain, but he may be a top 5 pick, so that’s out.
F Brandon Spikes, I think Goff will be better.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Spiller
I was thinking that last night. I think it had to do more with the way last nights game went. I don’t know though the league is so fickle after watching D-Jax run all over us twice this year and watching the Colts, Chargers, Saints, Vikings, and Eagles this year it seems as if a high flying attack is the way to go but remeber it was just a year ago when the smashmourth Giants, Titans, Ravens, Panthers, and Steelers were the class of the league so who knows. As explosive as the Eagles look on O I’ve also never seen them with this bad of a defense and it could cost them in the playoffs. Even when we beat them in the past it seemed as if we were lucky to get 20 last night their D was equally as bad as ours and thats saying something. I say draft D if were rush Donnovan a few times last night and get to him or force a few bad passes that is a different game.
Can't the ground not cause a fumble anyways?
or is that only in special cases where the moon must be full, and the players middle name must start with a P?
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
"Osi is probably one of our worst db's but he did alright there"
Seemed obvious to me that the ground caused the fumble
But, I guess with a QB it depends on how they slide. Feet first versus a diving head first. But seemed to me Eli arm & the ball hit the turf causing the ball to come out.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 15, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
45 Points...
To the Eagles… I’m weepy. We scored 38 points, dropped balls or not. How can you blame the offense for not scoring 46 points? They were huge out there all night, and were the only reason this game was at all close. Our offense is exceptional. I can’t believe our D is so, so bad. How can we win any games when the offense must score 46 points to make it happen? How can you say they were terrible. Yeah, they dropped 9 catchable passes. They also scored THIRTY-EIGHT points. How can that not be enough? Because our defense is stoopid bad.
by B-B-BLUE on Dec 14, 2009 10:28 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
1980
we have to go back to 1980 the last time the Giants allowed more points. The 1980 Giants allowed 425 points or 26.5 points per game. This team is allowing more than 25 points per game.
Re: 1980
Frank I was just thinking about that, I go back to the late 70’s with the Giants and honestly this is the worst Defense I can remember.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
From your keyboard to God's ear my friend
JR, needs to get some linebakers in hear pronto, I think LT could come out of retirement and be more effective than Danny Clark!
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
was about to post the same thing
Lightening in a bottle?
Goes to show you Game Stats can be decieving..
First I guess I should congratulate Bye_Dawk and Joe_D..Their team made more big plays and deserve the win…
If you blocked out the final score, and just looked at the game stats you would never have guessed that Philly won the game..We beat them in every category..EVERY category…but those stats don’t reveal what we witnessed in front of us…a BIG MESS.
The weather did’nt cooperate either..I was hoping for winds and felt that if we had those conditions we wouldn’t get lit up with the passing game..and we had to rattle McNabb’s cage..Neither happened..We had one lousy sack and basically Zero pressure..It is hard to remember a Giant defense not being able to protect 38 points…This inept group gave up 45..They all were confused and looked like they didn’t know what the heck they were doing out there…there was one play where Goff couldn’t even signal the defensive play out there before the ball was snapped!!..unbelievable…and so much for Ross saying he just had to do a little “Tweaking” to play solid safety..He was horrible..the whole secondary stunk..The whole defense stunk.
Collingsworth made two very good points, one on Manningham..He pointed out his poor outside routes saying that instead of driving the defender inside, he continually was drifting himself out of real estate..Another point he made was that he didn’t think he ever saw a game where the team that racks up 500+ yards lost the game.
The only guy that looked like a coach last night was Coughlin, he was the only one I saw pumping up the players, the crowd and barking into his headset..The other coaches looked like stoic bums..He needs to shake that whole staff up BS has to go, KG did alright last night but we could do better than him, Special teams..Lose Quinn and Merritt and fire all the secondary staff.
5 fumbles (or so)
usually mean you lose the game
But yeah, agreed with you.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
"Osi is probably one of our worst db's but he did alright there"
Firing
I hate to think of what next season would be like if we fired all the D coaches and started a rebuilding process.
it would be bad...
real bad. as i see it the only long term fix i can think of is for the 11 players to take a look in the mirror, and work harder. there isn’t a coodinator in the world that could work with this group at this point.
I dont think personnel is the problem here...
To me if you have a top 10 defense last 2 years and all of a sudden be this bad, I think it has to be on the coordinator. That is not to defend the players overall poor play, but I think Sheridan is over his head.
It is not just Sheridan...it is all of the assistants..
We have talented players, they just are not being properly coached..period..They looked totally confused and disoriented out there..That is the product of a sub-standard coaching staff…and what re-building are we talking about here?..bringing in talented Coaches or wasting talented players?
+1000
Dback coach, Peter Giunta was in consideration for the DC. His DBs are not prepared week after week.
the next DC should be from the outside and should have a pedigree
No more inexperienced guys we need a total overhaul on D
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bye_Dawk
Can we get this guy a network job or what. When the eagles went up 14-0 in the 1st Qtr, I remebered his prediction that which ever team wins the 1st qtr wins the game. Absolutly on the Money
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 10:46 AM EST reply actions
No offense to Bye_Dawk
but teams leading after the 1st quarter win almost 70% of the games.
Okay
So in other words Bye_Dawk has some work to do before we hand him one of those network jackets…. LOL
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
yea..
plus, Collinsworth said it too…
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
Commentators are stupid morons
I think a quarter of the people who comment here would be an upgrade over most of them
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Dec 14, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Dating back to 1989
Only 4 teams have allowed more points during an 8 game stretch. The Giants have allowed 259.
Lions 2008 278
Browns 1990 269
Colts 2001 262
Titans 2006 261
The amount of points this D gives up is staggering
man those are some scary stats, but not only does our D give up points they give them up at the worse times in the game. 5 of the 6 losses we have are because of the Defense not showing up for the game.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
D-Line
This D-Line is simply put embarrassing. Completely, and utterly embarrassing. I am ashamed to admit how stoked I was about them early in the season. I may be overreacting but this might be the worst line in football right now. I had to say that after the Jackson touchdown where after four seconds there wasn’t a Giants player even at the line of scrimmage. That was disgusting. McNabb could have taken another three seconds and still wouldn’t have had to worry about scrambling. I saw one play where Canty just got blasted off the line. Set or not, we paid big money for him to be a solid player at that position. I had no idea losing Alford was this horrible. We need another DT for next year, and I’d put that above a middle linebacker, offensive line, and safety. The fact that a Giants defense can’t penetrate the Eagles, of all lines, disgusts me. The Eagles line is made of make shift parts and back ups, and we can’t get to McNabb in five seconds. No, I don’t want us to make the playoffs at this point. I felt better after Cowboys game, but this was just further proof that our Offense is way better than our Defense which points to Sheridan completely because these are not an entirely new cast of players.
Man, I remember back in August when Ed reported how much further along our Defense was over our Offense. Man that seems so long ago.
It is not the Offense, it is not KG
The D HAs been overrated for 13 months! 13! The gas isn’t in the tank and if it was the tank would leak,. It is rusted, pocked with holes: a 1974 Chevy Malibu dragging a tattered tail pipe, with a hole in the passenger seat floor, held together with duct tape and wishes. Most bought into the whole, “wow, wait until our D line gets at ’em!” I don’t know what most saw in the pre-season (you really can learn heaps about the units folks, not the team as a whole, but the units, through careful pre-season observance, making sure not to give a shit about the final score. Really. Trust me on this. I have been pretty much right every season since 1985 about whether we’ll be successful or not.) What I saw was weakness: on both lines. And here we are. Yes, the O-Line has been playing better, though still not the force it had been. But the D-line is the culprit for these past 13 months of frustration. Simply put: awful play coached by an in over his head DC.
you're very eloquent in your points
Sadly I agree with you.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
"Osi is probably one of our worst db's but he did alright there"
Why does TC have a "get out of jail card free" pass?!
All you guys clamouring for TC to keep his job need to see the big picture: the HC is responsible for EVERYTHING that happens to the (supposed) TEAM that is playing on the field. To even suggest that he is ‘forgiven’ for all the debacles that are going on since end of last year, is ridiculous.
If TC doesn’t have the authority to define who he wants and needs for this TEAM to be successful, that’s another issue. But to put up with this level of incompetence, on ALL levels, is TC’s job to fix.
And that, folks, ain’t happening. Tired of hearing all the ‘call to arms’, and ‘we just need to play better’ crap. Fix it. Or get out of the way for someone else that wants to.
Go Gmen
The defending Super Bowl Champs
have lost 5 in a row. The last loss came at the hands of the lowly Browns. The Steelers are going to miss the playoffs. Would you suggest they fire Tomlin?
I don't know the particulars of the Steelers
I do know our DC, OC and ST coordinator all suck. What’s that say about Tom?
We're 2 years removed
We have an 8-11 record since starting last year 11-1. Coughlin’s teams seem to collapse down the stretch a lot. He definitely needs to fix this ship because he doesn’t have a lifetime pass.
Tomlin is one season removed. If his team struggles next year as well, you better believe there will be calls for his head.
Let's further disect
that 8-11 record. Four (at the time Skins were bad) were against abysmal teams. The Giants are 4-11.
Under TC
in the regular season the Giants are 14-19 from week 12 through the end of season.
That’s not good.
Come on guys le't put things in perspective
TC has been to the playoffs 4 years and counting and despite how bad this team has been we still might make the playoffs again. Factor in he won the SB two years ago and that tells you why people have left him alone.
You can’t put it all on him for last year, Plax killed us last season with his night of stupidity in NYC, Bill sheridan was a JR and TC Hire, the guy is not up to the task. So I am willing to give TC some slack and let him fix some of the problems before we through him over board.
KG is well KG, I would love to replace him, but last night he put together a game plan that should have won this game, so now is not the time to kill him.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
You have valid points
at the same time I believe this team has underachieved. Not just this year but every year under TC. In 2005 we had a great season. Then played an uninspired playoff game getting shut out at HOME.
In 2006 we went 8-8. Losing 7 of our last 9 games.
In 2007. We won the SB. I’ll be eternally thankful. Again down the stretch we were 4-4. The Pats game was a huge confidence boost that we rode to SB win.
After starting 2008 at 11-1 we end the season 1-4. We had the #1 seed. Home field advantage. We played another uninspired error filled playoff game. We can blame the Plax situation but good coaches and good team should move on from that distraction.
Yes, the Giants have done well under TC. I just feel with a better coached we would have done better.
Agreed
Frank you been a Giant fan a long time, you know how loyal ownership is. If Coughlin didn’t get fired after the 06 season you know he is not going anywhere after winning a SB and putting up a 12-4 season, and heck if he get’s us to 10-6 (a very real posibility looking at our schedule) his job is safe. In fact even if we finish 7-9 they he is not going anywhere.
Our D is the problem here, because they have flat out sucked the life out of the team in 5 out of 6 losses, Sheridan is the problem here not Tom.
Tom is gonna have a chance to correct the mistake of promoting Sheridan.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
I admit I love we have loyal ownership. I wouldn’t trade that for the Jerry Jones’ or Daniel Snyder’s in a million years.
It’s ironic. TC was on the verge of getting fired after 06. If the Giants don’t win out in 07 he’s probably gone. Would I trade our SB win for the dismissal of TC? Not in a million years.
Cowher had more than his shard of stinker seasons.
the worst we can do is 7-9, which would be TC’s worst season.
The Steelers were worse than that a few times. Cowher kept his job too.
Recycle coordinators if need be. Not HC’s.
Its a stupid idea.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Good point
Cowher has the same amount of Lombardi’s as Coughlin, Our HC is fine, sometimes I think he is too conservative but, the bottom line is we are on a good run, and we have a young team so TC might win another SB before it’s all said and done.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
Cowher recycled numerous coordinators too didn't he?
Wisenhunt wasn’t there forever was he?
I merenly think, like Zillag said somewhere…there was a huge misjudge of talent here.
We thought the front 4 would dominate with Osi coming back…and it hasn’t.
Sheridan was basing 100% of his ideas that it would….and its backfired.
He can’t adjust…cuz there is no adjustment.
The defense, as constructed is designed to be effective when the front 4 gets pressure.
When it doesn’t, you see down field throws, which the team is not accustomed too.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
He doesn't from me
I posted last night he shouldn’t get a pass and needs to be held accountable. Almost every facet of our team needs repair. Our D and ST are one of the worst in the league. Our passing game has excelled but there’s still many problems with our offense. Our O line has been average. Our running backs average. Too many dropped passes. Our red zone offense, while it has improved the last few weeks is one of the worst in the league.
ALL HC's, like CEO's .. must face the music!
I’m saying TC needs to fix this. He’s not. I’m tired of seeing the same old ‘deer in headlights’ and hearing the same old “we have to play better” postgame babble.
something’s broke. Has been for a while. I don’t see anything changing. If he won’t do it, maybe someone else will. I’ll take my chances with someone else at this point.
Alll SB-winning coaches get one year grace (hard to keep the attitude up back-to-back). So yes, if Tomlin doesn’t make changes next year, he deserves the same fate.
Go Gmen
Giants don't work like that
Gimmie a break, you sound like a spoiled Giants fan now. Most Teams don’t make the playoffs 4 years in a row, they have a down year. TC gave you an SB two years ago and than had a 12-4 record last year. You realize that even the great parcells didn’t make the playoffs every year.
Our DC is a rookie and he was not ready for the job, that is why we are in this postion, yes TC deserves blame for the promotion but he has also done enough to get a chance to correct the mistake.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
SPOILED?
Why shouldn’t we be ‘spoiled’. Colts and Patriots have done very well for most of the decade. I’m not suggesting we should have won more SBs but I am suggesting we should have done better the last 5 seasons. With the talent we have on this team we should be a LOT better.
Yeah spoiled!
Frank the Patriots are the team of the decade, the Colts have one SB win for all their Success, and in fact after those two teams one team has matched our succuess this decade of the Steelers but they don’t make the playoffs every year. Yes we could have done better the last 5 years but the last 5 years have not been bad like the 90’s. Would you rather be the Eagles and get to 5 NFC championships and 1 SB and not win a thing?
TC is not the best coach in the leauge but he does know how to win, we are in good hands betwen him and JR, they made a mistake promting Sheridan and I think all of us over valued the talent on this team, we are not that talented. If we were we would not be getting our doors blown off and losing games like we are.
Let’s not forget that in the 05 & 06 season Eli was still learning we had a bad Defensive coordinator and we had a lockeroom cancer named Tiki Barber who divided the lockeroom much the way T.O. did in Dallas.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
More Valid Points
Can’t really argue with anything you posted.
No I wouldn’t want to be an Eagles fan. They’re suffering is worse than ours.
Aside from last night's loss
unless there’s a total collapse the last 3 weeks KG probably saved his job last night. As a Giants fan it pains me thinking we have to endure him another year.
LOL
Agreed, Lord knows Ed (god bless him) has had to make me realize that KG is not going anywhere. Our problem is the D, I mean you posted some stats earlier about how many points we have given up and we are up their with the freakin Lion!!!!
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Question
as you pointed out. Knowing the Giants history of loyalty. Do they give BS another year? I see no way the Giants can afford to enter 2010 with BS as the DC but here’s where the Giants loyalty scares me.
No way
Sheridan is in over his head, I just don’t see how you bring him back, You go back a long way, can you remember a Giant Defense this bad? If Sheridan is back next year, I will be right by your side roasting TC for that.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
NEVER
I posted the stat about the 1980 Giants defense. I was a fan in 1980. I don’t recall the D being this bad. Ironically, Van Pelt made the Pro Bowl that season.
Although the Giants finished 8-8 the worst coaching job was by Ray Handley.
That's just it
The talent on defense is not what you seem to believe it is. Tell me which player consistently wins one-on-one? Which player consistently makes a play? Who leads? Is there one guy having a career year? Or even a very good one? Not one. Not one single guy. The talent just isnt’ there on defense right now.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 14, 2009 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
Ed, I really believe we have
enough talent to be at least mediocre. We’re way worse than mediocre. Those guys look lost out there. Sure, we need to upgrade, but I believe the single biggest problem is BS.
exactly.
This same talent just can’t be this bad.
Coaching has to be a part of it.
The D was even merely below average in the Tim Lewis years. Bad, but not this bad.
I gotta credit some epic offenses we’ve faced…cuz they are that good.
Yet….you gotta stop these teams.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
Well
I obviously believe Sheridan is part of the problem. There is limited talent at safety, and those guys have little experience playing together. There is little depth at corner. The defensive line has been disappointing. I’m buying what you are selling, George. I just don’t think the talent is top tier, either. Better than what it shows, but not top tier.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 14, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
But niether was
NO, Den, or GB last year and they went out got new DC’s and turned it around with little change in talent. Coaching makes a huge difference in this league and is the only realy difference between most teams. NO’s D last year was like ours this year Payton knew how valuable a good coach is so he took a pay cut to get Greg Williams. In this salary cap era very few teams if any have top talent, hell NE won three SB’s with a bunch a good players and one (Brady) and maybe two (Seymore) great players. The league is so mediorce that a good coach is the difference between 12-4 and 6-10.
Other teams have less talent, more production
Ed, I know you do not honestly believe that the Giants have one of the least talented rosters on defense in the league. There are so many teams out there with less talent on the defensive side of the ball, but play better defense than us. We need coaches that know the strengths and weaknesses of every players on our defense and they need to game plan to their strengths and hide their weaknesses. We are constantly exposed for the same things every week.
Other teams have less talent, but they don't give up as many points as we do
I think we all have to really look at our D, we know that Sheridan has to go, but are we really that talented?
Tuck is hurt so I will give him a pass but our DT;s stink this year, we don’t have a lot of talent there. Osi is overated and Kiwi is not much better becasue teams run right at him too. Our linebackers are not talented and besides Cory in the secondar who is really all that talented, Thomas is showing potential & KP’s season ended to early, but even KP is more potential than talent at this point.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Everyone that has a desire works like that ..
I have been watching since before “the Fumble” (hurts to even mention it). I know what this team has, and hasn’t done.
One thing I respect is someone, anyone, that learns from their mistakes, adjusts, and TRIES to do something different. Can you honestly say that the Giants are not repeating the same mistakes (and yes, since that famous 12-4 season last year, and first playoff game loss (and that is putting it mildly))?
I don’t want to lament only on the HC, rather a coaching staff, including TC, that appears to be repeating the same thing week in and out, and not having a change of plan.
Go Gmen
ps - Parcells
And even when Bill didn’t make the playoffs, or someone didn’t do their job, there was hell to pay. And, you just KNEW there was something cooking and scheming .. and the players knew it too.
You saying TC trumps Parcells?
Go Gmen
No am I saying that
I was just pointing out that Parcells had bad season’s too and didn’t always win when he was supposed to, Rember the Rams the year before our SB win, now way we should have lost that game.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
WOW
We had some bad loses. That’s one of the worst. We should have won that game going away. Parcells was too conservative. IMO Parcells and the play calling lost that game.
Parcells
We all love Parcells. He brought us not 1 but 2 SB rings. But he royally f*cked us after 1990. I don’t recall the time frame. Parcells quit sometime after Belichick left to take the Browns HC job. BB wasn’t very successful at Cleveland. I think he would have been a very capable replacement for Parcells.
Yeah, Parcells
.. left the Giants in a bit of a lurch. I believe we got Ray Handley that year. Oh boy, what a ride that year was after winning the SB.
Appreciate all the banter (and always useful facts and history) Gentlemen .. apologies if my frustration comes through too loud. I just think the Giants have better talent than they’re showing. I’d also say that they don’t look too motivated .. and that, in my experience, is coaching.
Go Gmen
Parcells screws everybody
Name me one team Parcells was with (besides the dolphins) that Parcells did not leave the team in a lurch. I mena i love the guy becasue he got us 2 Lombardi’s but he has his own agenda and when you turn your team over two him it’ like making a deal with the Devil. Because not only will he leave you in a lurch, when he lands on another team he will take all the coaches and some of your players with him.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
although
I took great pleasure when he left the Cowgirls. I can’t say I blame him in that situation. Jerry completely undermined him regarding TO.
George Young drove Bill away..Blame him
He’s a Jersey guy..and had to deal with that old fart..and decided he deserved more say..when they wouldn’t give it to him he packed his bags..He grew up and probably still is a Giants fan..If you read his book he comes right out and says it..Coaching ‘his’ team was a dream come true..I bet he still follows them, he grew up a fan of them..I wish he was running our organization…Look at what he’s done in Miami in two seasons?..Wade is still coaching guys that he picked in Dallas..Jones drove him out of there because Parcells had had it with TO..Any team he has been involved with became or have became competetive..We wouldn’t see what we witnessed last night on his watch…and guess who worked for him..yep Coughlin.
Don't get me wrong
Bill Parcells will always hold a special place in my heart and no matter how many teams he goes to I still consider him one of us.
Remember, Bill has not won another SB since he left us, after 07 I felt like we moved on, without the ghost of Parcells haunting us. So I say all that to say I think we are in good hands now and JR is a good young GM and TC is a good old school coach who might lead us back to the promised land again.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
Parcells waited till MAY!
to leave, if he had left after the SB like a class act BB would have taken over. Not only that, TC left later that year to take the BC job. Parcells went through the draft then decided to leave right before mini-camp and they gave the job to the RB coach who was way out of his league. Parcells is pompus ass thats why I want TC to win another SB and break all of his reocrds.
you make a decent point...
yet, do you realize there’s a reason for the consistent success of coaches like Jeff Fisher, Andy Reid and Bill Belichek?
Great players is one thing…..
..its continuity that’s another.
We’d be fools to get a new HC. We don’t know what it will bring.
Reid and Fisher have had their share of stinker seasons. They retool and come back better.
The Giants have had winning season after winning season.
There are more than a few organizations that are still waiting to find a HC worth a damn.
You cretins that want TC fired need to see the big picture. I know this is NY, but the big picture around the league is that when you got a good HC, like Coughlin is, you keep him until he wants to go.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
add Cowher to that list...
…and the job he did, similar to Fisher, is more impressive given how those smaller market teams struggle with losing players to free agency.
by Step up and make big plays on Dec 14, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
its cuz they keep the coach.
continuity.
Bringing in a new HC…takes a few years to get going.
Then impatience…then fire him of course.
Coughlin is continuity.
He’ll say it himself a lot of the blame is towards him. He holds himself accountable.
But…..certainly not fireable.
The defense is the problem. The whole defensive staff is in jeopardy.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly right on..
I tired of all this get rid of TC jazz..He’s a great football coach and I agree with the term ‘continuity’…Teams that have a revolving door are losers. I’m sure Coughlin has been taking his notes and will kick ass and take names at seasons end.
Special Teams
Our ST is terrible. We’ve been terrible for a few years. Maybe more. Our ST coach, Tom Quinn escapes scrutiny but shouldn’t. In addition to having one of the league’s worst defense our ST are also inept.
absolutely he needs to go.
We can’t have this anymore. ST has been horrible for years.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
How about that forward fumble call?..
Our guys just stood around scratching their asses!!..Instead of somebody “well coached” picking it up and heading downfield with it..Yeah, the rulling would have been we couldn’t advance it, but we would have gotten the ball!!..We left a sure turnover laying on the ground for crying out loud..
That may be the first time
I’ve seen a loose ball on the field and not a single player go for the ball. On a lot of incompletions or fumbles after the whistle, you see players scoop up the ball and take the mock jog to the end zone. For the life of me, I can’t see why no defensive player went for that ball. Osi should have went after the ball. He should have questioned if it were a fumble himself.
I really think
that if we would have recovered it, they would have gone to the replay booth and called it an incomplete pass.
I don't know
There were some shitty calls and lack of calls last night. I saw numerous false starts from both teams that weren’t called.
I can't
put any blame on the officiating. Yes there’s some bad calls but it went both ways.
Shows how wack the refs are
one ref throws the blue bag indicating a fumble and another ref blows the play dead for an incomplete pass. Still does not explain why the Giant’s didn’t pick up the ball. Even if one of the guys were being nice to the ref as to hand him the ball, we would have had possession.
A player is supposed to know that the play was a potential fumble..
Even if just a potential fumble or they suspect it may be they have to pick the dang thing up..and the guy who hit McNabb (I think it was Osi, should be yelling FUMBLE!!)..I never saw anything like it..
No way..that was a fumble..a definite fumble..and our players just let it go because they are not well coached..
NJ is right..I’ve never seen a player not scoop a ball up and take a jog..The ruling was a fumble and they all let it sit there…that’s a fundamental sign of a crappy coached team.
This years FA class in looking as bad
as the great 06 class of Lavar Arington, Will Demps, and Sam Madison. Madison was the only decent one and he was on the downside of his carrer. Arrington had a clasue in his contract saying if he got injured he could be cut.
After
last off-season FA signings I’m not sure that’s the direction the Giants take.
On a very positive note..
we could have broken the bank and signed Haynesworth. At least we saved a little money.
Haynesworth would be masking a lot of problems right now.
You kidding?
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
Don't forget 4yrs $16 million for Bernard.
Him +Canty wouldn’t equal Haynesworth’s contract……
yet, I’m sure they could’ve found a way.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
Benard aghhhh
Man that guys sucks, should have just drafted some DT’s
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
Biggest game of year
and Bernard was inactive. It’s apparent the coaches don’t have much faith in his ability.
he's gone.
book that.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
I was more or less
referring to Washington’s overall record and it seems like everytime I peep in at a Skins game, I see Big Al on the ground in a heep of manflesh in pain. I guess you’re right about the money wasted on Canty and Bernard. Could have spent that money on a good 60yard wide, 10 story high HDTV.
true.
he’s injury prone.
Still, I just could see him occupying about 3-4 blockers while Osi, Kiw and Tuck surround him and run wild.
You see that big gaping hole up the middle that McNabb was gazing out from and throwing and running through?
Big Al sits there.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Sad how we thought Canty would
be doing this for us. I had visions of Tuck and Osi with 12, 13+ sacks each.
LOL!!..that's a really nice TV set!!
Did you see they handed out 3-D glasses to the fans?..They weren’t even watching the damn game..they were watching the TV set!
At least Haynesworth shrugs off the pain and plays..These bums we wound up with just collect money and splinters.
OMG
I saw that. What a joke? Only Jerry would undermine his own team.
Haynesworth
would be better than all of our D-Tackles we have in there now, he’d be drastic improvement over what we have.
Bottom-line..
KG’s plan resulted in posting up 512 yards of offense and 38 points…Sheridan’s and the Special (not so “special” teams) gave up 45 points. We are now 7-6..so KG doesn’t deserve a free pass..and Sheridan deserves a train ticket out of town…and take Guinta, Quinn and Merritt with him..
You Know
Bobbi did you every in your wildest dreams think you would be defending KG LOL?
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
There isn't anything I can add to this discussion at this point that hasn't been covered...
…except perhaps to underscore the fact that we gave up way too many big plays on D and way too easily, and that despite our O’s valiant effort, we left a few big plays out there on the field that would have made the difference.
And like someone else said, this was probably the most agonizing game (besides SB XXXV) I have watched as a fan. Honestly, it was like watching a college game.
by Step up and make big plays on Dec 14, 2009 12:50 PM EST reply actions
i hope you guys make play offs
that was an exciting game i found myself at times watching it with almost no regard for who won it was that exciting. You guys put up 500 yrds on us most teams wont be able to handle your offense if it can do that. you guys will get the 2nd wildccard spot easy. we lost to the raiders this year and tied the bengals last year. dallas will lose to the saints and will in all likliness lose to us (knock on wood) you guys should handle the skins. hope you guys make it out of the nfc east giants are most tolerable, to me at least. much respect to you guys
haha
500 yards of offense and 38 points i dont think there was anything easy about that win. would it be awesome to see another shoot out off course. the main reason is (weird as it sounds) if anyone besides eagles wins the super bowl id rather have it be someone in nfc east. makes our division play better i think. maybe thats just me
Thanks for the pat on the back
Good win by you guys, but trust me if you lost this one, no way you would feel good about it. Our problem is Defense and has been all year, our D is so bad that our offense has to score a lot just to stay in the game.
Unfortuantly I have lost all confidence in the D so even if we make the playoffs I know we are a one and done team, cause we have to be able to stop teams in the clutch and we can’t do that.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
if we lost sure as hell id be pissed right now. (you know us rabid eagles fans and all). however id feel 2 ways about it. first its a three way tie makes for interesting end of season and secondly we have to make sure we either win division or wildcard. and that one of the other nfc east teams gets wildcard which would be you. 2 teams from east is good for me that way if eagles lose out (our defense looks horrible as well) at least you guys are there….maybe im just a weirdo when it comes to cheering for nfc east teams in playoffs
LOL, I have a hard time cheering for NFC East teams
Just call me a sore loser, but I am so sick of loosing to you guys, I can’t remember the last time McNabb left Giants stadium with a frown on his face.
On another note, as long as I can rember you guys have been a thorn in our collective sides, i respect the Eagles organization, and most Eagle fans I know are thoughtful and know a lot of football.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
question when it was new england philly super bowl who did you cheer for?? thats more what i meant i hate cheering for other nfc east teams but id rather have them win then other teams. and yea we have had your number the last four times but if im not mistaken before that you guys beat us three straight times
You know
I did find myself rooting for the eagles, but I was torn because Bill was our D coordinator for a long time so i have a bit of a soft spot for him. However your right, at the end of the day, I think we all take pride in our division because it is ususally the best in the NFL and when one of the teams wins a championship I think it relfects on all the teams in it.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
BOOM
lol the last sentance totally negates all of the “eagles havent won a super bowl” bull. haha but yea last year when you guys had spags it was weird. he was jim johnson’s (rest in peace) protegee so to speak, so i wanted him to do well to make jj look better, same reason i hope he turns the rams around
Let you in on a secrect
I might bring up the whole no SB win just to talk trash, but in truth I think Andy Reid is a good HC and Donavan is a 1st class person I would not be mind at all if you guys won it all, I think you eagles fans deserve it, and it’s been a long time coming. I would actually be happy for you. As long as you didn’t beat the Giants along the way, than I might be hating on you guys for a bit! LOL
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
you're not a weirdo
im a eagles and giants fan hybrid. i dont mind the skins either. ABSOLUTELY DESPISEEEEEEE THE COWBOYS THOUGH!!!!!!!!
Wow
talk about split personalities, LOL, at least you got the cowboy thing right!
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
haha weird combo for a hybrid fan but understandable somehow my dad manages to like both texas and ou in the college game. but its not so much as im a giants fan im a die hard philly fan during the game its all #$%^# the giants but after the game intelligent fan breaks out
yea i figured you weren't giants fan
i actually like a whole LOTTA teams. titans, packers, pats, bengals just to add on, lollll.
and ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww OU. longhorn for life baby!
Your a good guy Udalango..
Your team made the big plays..and as I said earlier deserved the win…Congratulations
thanks for the thumbs up
funny thing is based on the way our defense played i was pissed and said that with how bad they played we didnt deserve to win. eh maybe i still have the bar set to high for our d. R.I.P. Jim johnson. on flip side both offenses played crazy good last night with exceptions of a couple wtf moments by both teams
Were there any Bruce Johnson sightings last night?
I am having a hard time judging whether or not this rookie’s play has been slipping because I haven’t heard his named called often in recent weeks.
by Step up and make big plays on Dec 14, 2009 1:10 PM EST reply actions
Fire Coughlin? The height of knee-jerk Palinism.
Meaning, not very thoughtful. Just red-meat, lizard brain emotion. Hey, I suffer from it too at times, but TC, while not the best coach in the league, has been one of the best, if not THE best Giants coach. Based on record and accomplishment, yeah, he is up there. There are problems. He is accountable. Both he and JR totally misjudged the talent on this D, the kicking game, and the much of the O-Line. It happens. Coughlin gets another season to turn it around. Hell, Cowher would’ve been fired long before his SB win with this train of thought, and what’s all that kvelling over how great Cowher is; I mean, what’s all that about?
It’s been a disappointing year. But a wise man once said (something like this: you don’t want resentments and disappointment, don’t have expectations.
Live in the moment. Enjoy the games. Bitch and moan. But enjoy them. See them for what they are. See your team for what it is. It’s all good.
+1
Good stuff Zillag.
100000% agree in the misjudge of the talent.
I remember we were all gushing about who make the 54 man roster?
Now its…who do we need to jettison?
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
+1000
Great points, I chalk all this talk up to how much we all wanted this game. People have to be talked down off the ledge, we can still right the ship it’s not the end of our season.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Here's an analogy that should please the Philly fans lurking out there...
…Mike Schmidt, in his first full season in the bigs in 1973, had over 400 plate appearances and batted a mere .196. In today’s quick-fix world of free agency, do you think he would have ever gotten another chances to be the Phills’ full-time third baseman?
It takes a strong will and guts to stick with a guy whom you know has talent but just isn’t able to make the most of it at present. TC stays; getting rid of him would be a mistake just as relegating Schmidt to life in the minors.
by Step up and make big plays on Dec 14, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Palinism
zing!
I’m right leaning, but I don’t like her.
I say that’s an awesome analogy.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
"Osi is probably one of our worst db's but he did alright there"
Also...
Ed, I seemed to skip over the whole Willie and Kudo section….good stuff as usual.
The most frustrating point of this game was….there were TOO MANY GOD DAMN KWILLIE’S
I’d rather there be all Kudo and some Willies..or vice versa.
So many Kwillie’s means the GIants played out of their asses….yet, it was one or 2 plays where they failed to come through that KILLED THEM.
DAMMIT….We need to go into Fed Ex and stomp those MF’ers out.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
Kiwillie type of game
The Giants are not doing the little things that make you sucessfull as a team. We are making mistakes in every facet of the game.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
i think the majority of it can be credited to inexperience though. which in my eyes is a good problem to have, its corrected easy. last night i saw flashes of monster potential in hakeem nicks. so thats a fairly thick silver lining to this whole thing.
Offense is not the problem
In one year we have seen our D go from the top the league under Spags to the bottom of the league under well his initials say it all. BS! Our D is so bad we don’t know if it’s just the coordinator or who to get rid of and who to keep.
It’s like we never won the SB.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
i feel ya under jim johnson we were league leading defense caliber this year def not i dont think dawk had that much of an impact but it looks like it
Dawk, still had some tread on the tires
Just saw him a couple of games ago and he was his ususally pain in the butt hard hitting boaderline cheap self. I sure wished we picked him up instead of CC Brown.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
yea dawk still plays good im surprised we let him get away but yea borderline cheap stuff. he plays hard and goes hard after the ball carrier and fires up defense so im fine with it is he to rough probably but it has its positives
Boderline cheap basterd!!
In other words just the kind of guy we could use on our team LOL! Oh I am sure you guys are gonna feel the wrath when you play him, sounds like he didn’t want to leave, so I know he is gonna be out to prove you made a mistake. Better hope Jackson is friends with him off the field cause you are about to be on the other end of his chaos LOL
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
that would have been cool
but I doubt he’d go to us over the bronco’s mega insane deal.
Noway I’d make that deal, even in retrospect
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
"Osi is probably one of our worst db's but he did alright there"
inexperience is a good word.
The Eagles are very young too…
HAM is in year 2, but year 1 actually playing. Steve Smith is a monster…but he’s really in his second full year playing. Nicks is a rook
Boss is in his 3rd year….but again, 2nd full year starting.
…catch the drift?
We are young. We are not a win now team…we are very young.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 14, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
What saddens me the most
is that Eli is finally showing himself as the franchise quarterback we all hoped for and then the defense collapses… We have all killed eli for years and yet now he is the only one doing his JOB on this team! If mario manningham learns how to run a route he will be great…. if he scores that touchdown on the other side of 2 minutes, we might have gotten the ball back with around 2 minutes left and with eli we could have tied it up and relied on winning the coin toss in OT to win the game. Eli has been that good. Did anyone see the great plays he made such as avoiding the safety and the quick toss to i think bradshaw late in the game when he was almost certainly sacked? Eli has magic just like when he avoided the sure sack in the superbowl. Now if we can just put a defense on the field we can win a lot of games and be serious contenders for a superbowl year in and year out.
Is it safe to say
last night was Eli’s best game? Yeah he fumbled twice but both time he was trying to make a play. He was 27 of 38 with how many drops? As Flame mentioned great heads up play on both the toss to AB and Boss.
9 yards away from 400 yards
i think this is the 2nd or 3rd time this season he’s set personal records in yardage.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
"Osi is probably one of our worst db's but he did alright there"
i think you should give a kudo to eagle's defense
cuz their D last night was all sorts of shitty too
Positives and negatives
The joy of being a pessimist – u are either always being proved right or pleasently surprised. After lest game i was pleasantly surprised by how the offense played. The truth of the matter is our offense out-scored theirs, even with Desean Jackson. We lost for 2 reasons. 1) Turnovers 2) Lack of a consistent pass rush. If we don’t put the ball on the ground for 6 and we don’t allow the return, we win. That’s even with the drops and Eli’s ridiculous fumble. That being said, how do you fix the lack of a pass rush! I’m not crazy about BS, but can he be blamed for poor tackling, not being in position! I honestly doubt that even with Spags the situation would be different. As for Coughlin, I would not be surprised if he retires after the season. What is there left for him to prove!
Official Review
I’ll bet the Eli play will be in NFL Network’s Official Review segment.
get back to me on that
if it is, try to record it, or get me a link to it. I don’t have the NFL network, and I’d like to see their explanation
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
"Osi is probably one of our worst db's but he did alright there"
In Defense of Sheridan
OK, Sheridan has sometimes looked like a first year coordinator and has had that “deer in the headlights” look during some of the games, but I can’t say that the poor defense is all his fault. I see the comments above about all of the talent on defense, but when I look at the players I don’t see it. How could anyone expect that
> Osi would be as slow and ineffective as he has been
> That AP and Robbins would decline so much in one year
> That Rocky Bernard and Barry Cofield would be so ineffective
> That Phillips – the only safety with any speed – would be on IR
> That Tuck would injure his shoulder, limiting his usefulness inside
We knew that several of the linebackers, eg Danny Clark, were not all that good and that the safeties other than Phillips were slow. All of that had been covered up in the past by the pass rush, but the pass rush is gone. Even Kiwanuka, the only DL with no recent injury history, has not looked that good.
Where is the talent? Tuck when he recovers, Webster, Thomas, Phillips if he comes back, are A players. Anybody else? Sintim and Goff may develop. I will give Canty and Boley the benefit of the doubt for the moment. Osi’s a sub, Kiwanuka has never justified being a #1, the other safeties can’t cover, the other linebackers are mediocre, etc.
Sheridan may indeed deserve to be fired – I’ll leave that to TC and Reese – but I don’t see that he had ever had overwhelming talent to work with.
My biggest hope is that a lot of the softness on defense is the lingering effect of injuries that the ofseason will cure. My biggest fear is that it is not – whatever has happened is permanent, and Reese essentially has to rebuild the defense.
Mickey C
Disagree..Sheridan and his group of clowns have some tools..
They are Camp, Daily Practice, and film to study to determine where weaknesses are and then be bright and creative enough to deal with them..This team is no better than they were on day one..not a single sign of consistent improvement..Those players do have talent..they are not being coached..No one is going to convince me that a team coached by Spags suddenly lost all their speed and talent. in one year…and if you read between the lines when players are interviewed they are sending that very message..they just don’t want to rock the boat..which is sinking thanks to Ahab Sheridan..and his band of Somalian pirates…
I agree and disagree with you
There are things about the play of the defense that I find very disturbing, especially the obvious confusion in the defensive backfield – the safeties constantly being out of position. Also all this talk among the defensive players about poor communication and players not understanding what they are supposed to do – that has to be about coaching.
However, I disagree with you about the talent available. Only Thomas and Boley are better than last year. Pierce (before he went on IR), Robbins, and Cofield are worse, and so is the free safety position without Phillips. So, in fact, is Tuck with his shoulder problems. Canty may have been moved ahead of Robbins, but he really hasn’t shown much yet. Osi’s demotion was on merit. Bernard is so bad that, even though he was brought in as a run stuffer and they have trouble stopping the run, he is inactive! He may be Reese’s first real whiff.
So what do we have? Other than Boley, little talent among the linebackers, although Goff has made some plays. Mediocre safeties. A DL that can’t rush the passer and has trouble with the run. I think that it is indeed worse than last year. I think part of Sheridan’s problem was that the weak early schedule concealed the truth, and it took him a few games after that to realize that the execution he was expecting was just not going to be there.
Having said that, though, would better coaching still have produced better results? Yes, I think so. Even though the defense this year can’t blow opponents out, they could put up better resistance than they have. If BS were fired, I wouldn’t disagree.
Mickey C
ed, ive been reading this site for a few years
and i am shocked you gave desean a kudos, yes his play was phenomenal but anybody who tap dances into the end zone like that is a clown, i cant wait until a safety blasts him while showing off like that
I didn't even think about his dance
I thought about that punt return, and how he impacted the game.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 14, 2009 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
That was douchey of him
but at least he remembered to hold onto the ball.
Just like some other WR, he may have a flair to be arrogant, but he is still incredibly talented and deserves respect for what he brings. I just wouldn’t enjoy watching that stupidity as it would embarrass me as a fan of the team.
Come on
the guy was phenomenal. Is he a hot dog? Of course. I could do without the dancing but he deserved the Kudo.
At the end of the day
football is just a game and we play games to laugh and have fun. I had no problems with his corny little dance. If a team doesn’t want to see his corny dances (or Ochocinco’s antics), then play some defense and stop him. I would have done the same thing if I were 15 or 20 yards behind the defense.
Gotta admit
it was funny watching Jackson chest bump with Reid. Reid barely got off the ground.
at the time
if I had a gun and murder was legal I would have shot them both. Reflecting back it was funny.
That did look crazy
but on the same note, how many non Giant fans got sick of seeing Strahan and the D-line “ballin” after getting a sack.
Was it the dance or the dance's statement that has you ticked?
Yes, the dance was corny and not something I would try at a party, but the statement was far worse. He basically told our team that he could dance into the end zone, it was just that easy. Like I said, I had no problems with it. I might be one of the few that liked the Deon Dance when he would score on a pick or return. I’m one of the few that look forward to Ochocinco scoring because I want to see what he thinks of next. Don’t want to see the dance, keep the kid out of the end zone.
what bothers me
is that he did it during the play, high kicks to the end zone is one thing, your not facing our players. i love watching Cincinnati and i enjoy ochocinco, i think whatever you do in the endzone is fine, i watched steve smith do snow angels live at the panther playoff game in 05 or whenever and it didnt bother me, i enjoy that too, it is a game, and it should be fun, i disagree with giving him a kudo after acting like a child and disrespecting colleagues, if you will, during play. everybody seems to have a different opinion on this tho, and i respect them all, so ill leave it at that
oh and
when i said i enjoy that too, i didnt mean steve smith doing snow angels, i meant i enjoy celebrations and they should be less penalized, but only in the endzone after the play is over
you know something
is wrong with the league when a touchdown celebration and a deliberate foul on a player can carry the same fine.
Now you know
How other teams fans felt when we had Shockey acting like a jack a$$ cause he made a first down.
by Late for Dinner on Dec 14, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
i agree that was funny
it would’ve been funnier if andy reid shattered his ankle
Yes that was great..Shows the fondness between him and his players..
But ‘ol Andy Reid ain’t going to leave the ground..He’s spent too much time at Taco Bell to be de-cleated..lol
I prefer players that..
Just toss the ball to the Ref and get back to work..but they are just kids..and all that nit-wit stuff is hard to control these days..Spiking the ball is one thing..Now you have kids Tweeting, wearing costumes, making believe they are putting, all kinds of nonsense..Just throw the ball to the Ref..recognize the fans..celebrate with teamates and play ball..this is the NFL not broadway theature..He had a good game though..very dangerous player to not deal with..and our guys couldn’t..so I don’t blame Ed for recognizing his playing last night..He was good.
I can respect your veiw Bobbi
but I see football as a game. I know it’s not broadway, but I watch for the fun and entertainment, kinda like broadway. If I wanted to see guys just “get back to work”, then I’d watch court tv or something. Like I said, I have no problem with these guys having fun. Just think of some of the stupid things we would do if we were to get together for a game of flag football or something. The only difference I see is that these guys play (key word is play) for a living. They’re playing and having fun, they just happen to get paid a bazillion dollars to do what we’d do for free if we had a free week end.
Good point nj..
But if we all did get together we’d have alot more fun than our guys had yesterday..It would be flag-football, barbecue, beer and laughs..(mostly at each other)..These God-gifted athletes have much more at stake than we do..By the way, if we did have a flag-football game as fans I will stand up and admit I no longer can run a 4.5 forty..I think the best I could do is a 30 minute forty…lol
Don't worry about your speed Bobbi
We’d just put you at LB or in the secondary. Our guys have proven that you don’t need speed to be effective……wait, wait, wait, I almost forgot. We suck on D. How’s your punting and place kicking?
Here's another under-coached bonehead play for y'all..
Thomas on that return knocking the guy (i forget who)..almost into the bench..before getting back into coverage….Idiotic..basic fundamental mistake…15 yard penalty pinned us back screwed the subsequent drive up…
rofl
I couldn’t stop laughing at that.
Fricking hilarious
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
"Osi is probably one of our worst db's but he did alright there"
**but wrong
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
"Osi is probably one of our worst db's but he did alright there"
If any good comes out of this
it’s that Eli has arrived
Eli has been great this year except vs the blitz.
Against one of the premier blitzing teams, eli had a career day with no interceptions.
Eli is coming, too bad he can’t play safety.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
"Osi is probably one of our worst db's but he did alright there"
Very true Will..
..and he’s starting to bark out at players more and more..Leadership in the making..He’s starting to chastise his crew.
I told people at my school that Eli's the one of the most clutch QBs in the NFL
and a friend scoffed at me.
Now Eli’s his starting fantasy QB, something I never thought people would have.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
"Osi is probably one of our worst db's but he did alright there"
And yeah
he’s showing his leadership out on the field more now
I never thought he lacked leadership, I just thought he went quietly about it, behind the doors kind of thing.
Noone can blame him for the losses anymore. Heck, he’s why we have any hope.
That’s when leaders are born: When the only person stopping complete failure is you, and you rise up to it.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
"Osi is probably one of our worst db's but he did alright there"
Special Teams
Awful awful, awful. No faith in Tynes on FG’s or kick-offs, Feagles suddenly turned 80 & cannot punt. Coverage is pathetic, but to be fair to Hixon on the TD return he was held not once but twice.
Nothing Is Fool proof if you have the right fools.
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