New York Giants Notes: Aaron Ross at safety, Gap Control, & Corey Webster
by cjmulrain on Dec 12, 2009 7:00 AM EST
in News
60 comments
- Aaron Ross talked yesterday about his transition to safety after playing his whole life as a cornerback:
"I am getting there. I still have some things to learn. I know the defense but I still have technical and just small things that safeties that have been playing the game know that I might not. I have Michael Johnson, (Aaron) Rouse and C.C. (Brown) to teach me. It's been going pretty well."
- Both Michael Johnson (transcript) and Tom Coughlin (transcript) blamed poor gap control for the defense getting gashed by the Philadelphia running game last time they met. The Giants run defense showed a huge improvement last week against the Cowboys, so hopefully they can maintain that and shut down the Eagles tomorrow.
- Corey Webster had his worst game of the season on Sunday, but Bill Sheridan hasn't lost faith in the Giants #1 corner:
"The only thing I say is, as you know, we normally match him up against the best receiver on the other team," Sheridan said. "So inevitably, they are not going to be completely scared from throwing to that guy and he is going to get the ball thrown on him. So I am not surprised or disappointed. I think he would probably be more frustrated than I am, because he thinks he can play better on some of those plays where balls have been caught on him. But he is still as good as anybody we have from a coverage standpoint and I am not concerned about it."
- Steve Serby outlines the "big blue-print" for beating the Eagles. I can think of at least one BBV commenter who will agree with step #2: "the big plays."
- Amani Toomer's feud with the Giants was pretty short lived, as he will be on hand tomorrow as an honorary captain. His only regret is that he's not still a Giant.
- I drew some criticism the other day for denying the existence of Super Bowl XXXV, but look, I'm not alone: the Giants 10 Greatest Games DVD includes the divisional round game against the Eagles and the NFC Championship game against the Vikings, and then skips ahead to the 2006 regular season comeback against the Eagles. For true Giants fans, this DVD should be at the top of your Christmas List (it's already on mine) - in addition to those three games it has all six postseason games from the Giants first two Super Bowl seasons plus Super Bowl XLII (the other three playoff games that year are included on the Road to Super Bowl XLII DVD, which is also worth owning if you don't have it already).
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Toomer
I hope the organization does the classy thing and retires his number.
Toomer
was a great Giant. I don’t believe he should have his number retired. He’s not in the same class as LT, Simms or Carson.
you can't retire every number
but they should reward him with something.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
"Osi is probably one of our worst db's but he did alright there"
Agreed
If Harry Carson’s number isn’t retired, Toomer’s never will be.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 12, 2009 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
Props to Toomer and The Game of their lives --
- Amani gave us many, many great games. Should’ve had one pro-bowl appearance, at least in 2002. Now the Eagles game, something scares me about it, not backtracking on my previous burst of optimism, picking the Giants to win (thought I’d try a different tact), but… something has me nervous… what is it? Oh, yeah, we’re not fixed. Looking at the first Eagles game again, all I see is what I saw in the preseason bears game, same glaring problems. Problems that have not been fixed (if you think the Cowboys game was proof of fixing it, I’ve a got a bridge to sell you) problems that, at different levels of terribleness, have popped up in every loss, as well as the victories - Atlanta coming back (wha?!) and making Roy Willams look like Michael Irvin in his prime is not good, fellas and ladies. Point is: the Giants will remain broken for the rest of the season. They are still a middling team that needs much luck and the best game of their lives in order to win this weekend. They get it, they do it, I do believe they then make the playoffs — still might back in with a loss if Dallas soils its panties with their tough schedule — but who wants to back in? This isn’t the 84 Giants, coming off a 3-12-1 season. This is a team everyone said and believed was elite. So backing in, while nice in that it gives us fans another game to broaden our waist lines and ignore the pressing realities of real life (alimony bills mountain high) it still smells like a murdered King in Denmark. Game of their lives, friends. Game of their lives.
Really?
I’m glad you think you’re eloquent, but please skip the strike-through crap, it’s just irritating. You do have valid points and I think that ‘everyone’ IS waiting on this game to see if the Giants are real or not.
I'm pretty sure the strikethrough was unintentional
it happens when you put a dash at the beginning and end of a sentence. like this
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Strike through has nothing to do with eloquent, which I don't claim to be, but with...
… a strange quirk of this blog which occurs with dashes, but, alas, not ellipses (sic?)… sigh…
Strike-thrus
It is very odd. I hope our tech group can do something about it, because it is very annoying.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 13, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
maybe don't do what you always do to prevent strike throughs?
The strike throughs make it harder to read your stuff, whether intentional or not.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
"Osi is probably one of our worst db's but he did alright there"
Game of our lives
sounds a bit drastic, were not playing the 2007 Pats, I think we need to play a good game, try to limit big plays and stop the run like last week and be sharp on offense with quick passes and try to get the running game going, but Philly isn’t an awesome team, they’re good, not great imo, and they have weaknesses we can attack, get boss involved against their LB’s, double moves by our WR’s and pump fakes by Eli to get their aggressive corners to bite and they can be had, so we just need a good solid game, played with heart and we have a great chance.
by BigBlueCrew_jfl on Dec 12, 2009 8:31 AM EST up reply actions
O.K., we've got to hide Z's razor blades again ...
On the flip side, I don’t see the Eagles as world beaters either. Lost to the Raiders in pathetic fashion, but decimated teams like the Falcons. Very inconsistent.
The question to me is which Giants team will show up (the one that beat the Boys twice, or the one that refused to join the “mile high” club on Thanksgiving) and which Eagles team will show up (the one that can’t block the pass rush, or the one that runs the FB up the middle for 40+ yards).
We need to win this game, and maybe even win out to get the division. Don’t call that backing in. Going into the playoffs with some momentum is crucial. Last week was a start, but we need a solid effort tomorrow, not a “win ugly” performance, to really get on that roll.
Backing in?
Nonsense. If you get to 10 wins, which is what I think the Giants need to do, you have had a good season. Maybe not great, but good. And if you get to 10 wins you aren’t ‘backing in’ to anything. You are earning your spot. Maybe the Giants have not been as dominant as we hoped, but they are still a good football team.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 12, 2009 9:35 AM EST up reply actions
the only way I could consider 10 wins "backing in"
is if you started out 10-0 or 9-1 and finished 10-6
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Still
even if it is 9-7, we beat the Cowboys twice. Which would mean that we earned it and they didn’t. Again, not backing in.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 12, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Hang in there, Z
We need some pessism here and you’re about the only one who offers it now that NY baseball Giants has left us bereft of his insights. I rarely agree with you, but you often make good points. Your syllogisms can be quite artful, indeed irrefutable if one accepts the statements that provide their foundations.
Personally, I think we’ll earn our way into the playoffs. I also think a win against the Eagles is necessary to do that.
At this point, no one’s right or wrong about the eventual outcome of the sason.
no matter how they get in...
doesn’t matter.
The hell did going 12-4 and getting a bye do for us?
Either they get hot in the playoffs, or they continue the inconsistency in the first round and get bounced.
Its either this is who they are, or this is not who they are and there’s better football to be played.
Backing in. Getting hot now….doesn’t mean a damn thing either way.
1-Get into the playoffs.
2-Win in the playoffs.
3-Laugh at the Cowboys.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 12, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
If we win the superbowl
(4 games) than that means the giants are .500 in the playoffs all time, back to when they first started post season games
Don’t ask how I know that, just let’s see if we can get back to average in the playoffs
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
"Osi is probably one of our worst db's but he did alright there"
Average
yet with 4 Super Bowls. I’ll take average.
momentum
that’s another media misconception. The 1990 Giants didn’t enter the playoffs with momentum. They lost 3 of their last 5 games. Yes, they won their last 2 games during the regular season. Neither were good games. They beat a 1-15 Pats team 13-10 in the season’s final game.
the only momentum that matters...
is week 18.
Week 1-17, its nice to get some momentum here and there of coruse, you gotta win and make the 2nd season.
Carring momentum from December? Meaningless.
If December momentum mattered, Phillip Rivers and his 15-0 December record would have 4 SB trophies already.
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 12, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
couldn't agree more.
ask arizona how “backing into the playoffs” worked out for them last year.
don't hide them, allow him full access to them and his wrists
btw, can we not put links to Newsday anymore? thats very aggrivating to get a snippet of the article then an announcement that you buy or your ish out of luck. if i don’t have a subscription to your damn paper now, no snippet of news article will change that.
Newsday
Problem is, unless you subscribe to Newsday’s print edition you can’t get the online edition for free anymore. You have to pay. And, I’m not doing it. I love Tom Rock, who covers the Giants, but Vacchiano, Garafolo and Palladino give me the same coverage for free.
by Ed Valentine on Dec 12, 2009 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
yea, sorry about that
I tried to find a story about Toomer from another source, but Newsday was the only one I could find, unfortunately. Full disclosure, I actually don’t subscribe to it either, but when I googled the article I found the full thing on a different website that asked not to be linked to. I figured some of our readers would have Newsday, but if you’re interested in reading the whole article, just google it and it should be one of the first few links (I forget the name of the website now).
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
its always nice to know we got you on our side Zillag.....
"It ain't over till its over"---
How come no one covers Steve Smith?
by FreeBradshaw on Dec 12, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
DVD set
I think I’d take the 2007 NFC Championship game over the 2006 Eagles game, but looks like a great set anyway. Now going on my wish list!
I'm pretty sure they didn't include the 2007 NFC Championship
because it’s already on the Road to Super Bowl XLII DVD, and they didn’t want to have too many crossovers, but you obviously can’t make a “Giants Greatest Games” w/o including Super Bowl XLII itself.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
The DVD includes
All 3 playoffs games from both 1986 and 1990 Super Bowl years. None of the 2007 playoff games were classics. The NFC Championship game should have ended in regulation if Tynes makes a FG.
The 2006 Eagles game was a great comeback. At the same time the Giants were terrible in the first half. The offense after an opening drive TD they had 5 straight punts including four 3 and outs. The defense allowed almost 300 first half yards. Then they allowed an long drive to open the 2nd half falling behind 24-7. From there it was all Giants.
Super Bowl XXXV
I refuse to watch anything that shows that disaster.
While it’s not one of the Giants 10 greatest games it did have great significance. The 1981 NFC Wild Card game. Giants beating Eagles 27-21 in Philly. The Giants jumped out to a 20-0 lead in the 1st quarter. It was the Giants return to the playoffs after a 18 year absence. At the time, anyone who watched that game can remember how monumental it was for the Giants to finally return to the playoffs. It was the beginning of 2 Super Bowls and many years of success …… and some heartbreak.
Joe Danelo!
He looked like my cousin Louis’ Uncle Johnny, he of the backroom at the Deli and the red good encrusted butcher’s smock hanging on a peg by the always locked meat freezer.
Another nice article , CJ
As I said a couple weeks back I think we have a reasonable chance to wind up 10-6..and could very well attain an 11-5 record..but it all starts tommorrow in the miserable weather and wind we fondly refer to as the Meadowlands in December..This game will be the barometer for the final lap of the season..Pessimists will say a team can fall back into a losing streak, where an optimist will say a team can get rolling on a winning streak..I tossed the Atlanta game out because we still looked lousy, the Dallas game proved to be much better and had to give them their confidence back there were far less weaknesses..Hopefully they build on that performance..One thing is certain..Nobody is going to be lighting up the sky with 300+ yards passing..The team that brings their ‘A’ game running attack will win.
weather adds
to the uncertainty. Aside from the Carolina game last season Eli has yet to demonstrate he can win a big late season game at Giants Stadium. Yes, the Giants won last week but it wasn’t one of Eli’s better games.
Also, I vote we pursue acquiring..
Mildred Harrison to help out at middle linebacker…
You think mumblin' 'ol muddlin'
Millie,magnificent mummer, makes a memorable middle? My, my.
I have a question for you blue gonz
Have you heard of the term “Umbrella Defense” applied to the giants?
I was looking up some of the old players on wikipedia and one thing led to another, and I ended up looking up the old NFL championship games. It said that the giants won one on the basis of their “umbrella defense” (or something similar to that), but the link was empty.
I believe it was during the 40’s it said, but I could be wrong.
I’m interested in it, so if you know anything about it, that’d be cool to know.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
"Osi is probably one of our worst db's but he did alright there"
The umbrella defense was devised by
Tom landry when he was player/coach for the Giants. He came to them from the NY Yankes as part of the deal that merged the AAFL and the NFL (in 1952?) He devised it to hinder Otto Graham’s passing and was quite successful.
PS, Will
Google “umbrella defanse football” and you’l see scores of articles on it. Some credit Steve Owen (the longest serving Giants’ coach) with its invention. The merger apparently came in ‘50. Was it Landry or Stout Steve Owen? Probaly both. Sam Huff always gave the credit to Landry, who picked Huff to be MLB (according to Huff.) Huff was a great but kind of small lineman at WVU (he went around 230-235). I’m pretty sure Huff didn’t get to the Giants until after ‘50, so… Maybe Landry tinkered with the scheme to improve on it, etc. If you peruse those articles I’m sure you’ll have a better fix on its creation and development than I do. Before the umbrella (basically the 4-3) teams played a 6-1. The one was called the Middle Guard.
As I recall the umbrella defense was created in the fifties and dragged into the sixties.
George can correct me if I am wrong. By the way, Tom Landry was one of our “umbrella” defenders.
by giant fan since 57 on Dec 12, 2009 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
Hey blue and 57
you guys are the shit! It’s like we have our own direct link to Giants history. Keep up the good work fellas! You too Bobbi. If I have a question about the Giants, I’ll be coming to you guys 1st.
Thanks NJ..You younger guys...
Is what keeps us older guys all going…I’m honored..There will be a day where you guys will have to carry the torch (that sounds rather silly haha..in fact, really silly, oh what the hell I’ll leave it )..I must say I am impressed with all the Fans out here..Young and Old..You are all alot of fun to listen to and comment with..Sometimes I get in a bit of trouble here but hey what the heck.. I am just me.
See above. As I said, it's basically the 4-3 and has been tweaked into loads of
variations. Yes indeed Landry was a CB/ and a good one, although we had two better than him (what a D!), Tunnel ( a HOFer and our “offense on defense”) and Otto Schnellberger (Schnellenberger?), who played in the NBA and IMO should be in the Hall as well. (Too late for him now.) If you see a diagram of the original formation devised by whomever, the placement of the secondary resembles the cover (lid? awning?) of an umbrella.
PPS, Otto was gnawing at me, so I looked him up.
It was Schnellbacher. He came to the Giants from the Yankees also. Like Weinmeister he only played pro football four years, two in the NFL. Like Wein he was all pro both years in the NFL. In those days, All-Americans from college and later All-Pros in the NFL could often go back as heros in their home towns and make a lot more than they could playing football. I think that was what happened to both of those guys. Can you imagine getting two all-pros and Tom Landry (and some others as well, I think) as a result of the merger? The Maras weren’t about to allow competition in the Big Apple. The Dodgers had a team as well. Both the Yankees and the Dodgers had good players beside those mentioned above. The Yankees had a fantastic RB, Spec Sanders, who had a couple of great years, but whose career was short-circuited by knee injuries (no arthroscopic surgery back then)
I was reading up on it
the NFL is very different now. Some of them I think are good improvements, others, idk, it’d be cool to go back in time and watch some of the old timers play some real smash mouth football.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
"Osi is probably one of our worst db's but he did alright there"
And it must have been tough being a giants fan even when they were good
Its seems like every other year they were in the championship game, but would always find a way to lose the big one.
Never assume skill at bouncing a ball makes you smarter than the guy who built the court.
"Osi is probably one of our worst db's but he did alright there"
The two losses to the Packers in the early sixties
nearly killed me. Also I used to hate it when we played the Browns (yes, they were a powerhouse then) and I would have to sit in my chair and use body language to try to help Huff tackle Jim Brown.
by giant fan since 57 on Dec 13, 2009 5:32 AM EST up reply actions
Sam Huff and Jim Brown..
A classic rivalry..
Indeed....
I remember one game where Huff & company stuffed Brown for nearly the whole game but he got us with a couple of strong runs right at the end.
Jim used to get up very slowly from every tackle like he was hurt and barely limp back to the huddle but sure enough next carry he was running like a freight train again.
by giant fan since 57 on Dec 13, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
From his earliest days, he was like that, even at Syracuse.
Slowly drag hiself from the ground, stagger back to the huddle, then on the next play running like a deer, bowling over would be tacklers, etc
Late to the party, but no disagreement here with...
…Steve Serby. From my POV, the man sounds like he knows what he is talking about! ;)
by Step up and make big plays on Dec 13, 2009 11:27 AM EST reply actions
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