Giants 7, Chargers 7: 2nd half Open Thread
by Ed Valentine on Nov 8, 2009 5:31 PM EST
in Game Threads
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PrintTie game at the half. With more than 500 comments here is a new thread for the second half
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Agreed
Sheridan is bringing the heat, but I hate that zone blitz stuff. Spags loved it, too. It’s a terrible idea.
Over/under on crappily designed blitzes this half?
4 sound about right?
nothing worked the mets this year...
Always next year
by Jsz on Nov 8, 2009 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
the DL worked
Say what you want, but when the Mets put players on the disabled list, they were allowed to rehabilitate their injuries and the Mets did not lose the rights to those players. So the DL worked perfectly for the Mets, I’d say.
by long time listener on Nov 8, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
Not if Steve Philips would've had his way!
But luckily we have Omar at the helm.
by Jsz on Nov 8, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
sarcasm, right?
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Do you even have to ask, cjm?
I dunno how omar is still a GM
by Jsz on Nov 8, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
whew
I was afraid I was gonna have to ‘out’ you as an Omar lover on AA. You would have been burned alive at the stake
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIEND!!!!!
LET’S GO GIANTS!!!!
WE NEED THIS WIN!!!! TIME TO MAN UP!!!!
GO NY GIANTS!!
Wilkinson with a nice tackle
Special Teams have looked better today. Still not perfect, but definitely better thus far.
not Special Teams writ large...
…we’re defending kicks well, that’s all. Hixon’s runbacks haven’t been average at best, and we have that botched field goal attempt.
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
Well the FG attempt
was more the special olympics team as opposed to special teams. ;)
Gates dropped that
I think he was salivating so much he greased up his own set of hands.
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!
I CALLED IT!!!!!!!
Johnson was camped under that
like a punt
by long time listener on Nov 8, 2009 5:45 PM EST reply actions
See what safety help over the top is supposed to look like, C.C.???
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 5:46 PM EST reply actions
Still, I don't like the fact that these monster receivers of theirs are not getting jammed at the line...
…they are running free and deep into the pattern with zero contact. Get physical, boys!
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 5:47 PM EST reply actions
CUT CC NOW.
He should never get on the field again.
may as well just kneel if we have one yard to go from now on
it will have the same result and will be less likely to lead to a turnover.
You ever think
Maybe he wouldn’t get hurt if he wasn’t on the sidelines so damn much so Bradshaw can get stuffed up the middle??
that's just a baffling penalty
You could watch a year’s worth of NFL games and not see that.
by long time listener on Nov 8, 2009 5:51 PM EST reply actions
not if you watch the Redskins
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
I don't understand what he's trying to do?
Box out for the rebound?
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Coughlin has that "look" back...
haven’t seen it much since the 2006 season…
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 5:52 PM EST reply actions
should have went for it on 4th down
same field position
Waive Feables on tuesday
not his fault Dockery ran into the return guy
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
30 yd punt
as a gunner, you can walk down field and still get to the return men
I am pretty sure I can kick 35 yds
I would be an upgrade on fables
Seriously, what does Dockery bring to the table anymore?
after Ross comes back, with the way TT and BJohnson are playing, why have Dockery out there at all?
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Nov 8, 2009 5:53 PM EST reply actions
Jam him at the line, please!!
TT is big enough to jam.
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 5:55 PM EST reply actions
Whoa, whoa, whoa
A pass on third and one? That’s not illegal? Whodathunkit
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Nov 8, 2009 5:55 PM EST reply actions
Pretty sure the Refs just missed a call
no way you can pass on 3rd & 1
by Jsz on Nov 8, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
there's an interesting idea
watching the Giants I thought that was a penalty
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Killdrive
Ed, you up for defending Killdrive’s play calling on 3rd and short? This guy has got to go.
by NY Football Giants on Nov 8, 2009 5:56 PM EST reply actions
the corpse formerly known as LaDanian
pretty much sucks, huh?
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
ANOTHER DROP!!!!
WHo’s the 2006 Giants?
They got Plax and Shockey dropping balls all over the place!
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chargers are getting the severe case of the dropsies
Lucky for the G-Men D.
wow
the Chargers want to win this game even less than the Giants do.
Thank God for Norv Turner
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Gates might be out defense MVP
At least for this half
by long time listener on Nov 8, 2009 5:57 PM EST reply actions
Luckkkkyyyyy
again, Tuck on Gates. Head starting to really hurt now.
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Nov 8, 2009 5:58 PM EST reply actions
OK Offense Lets get a TD
Who will it be that gets the TD?
I say it’s time for Hakeem the Dream Nicks!!!
GO NY GIANTS!!
Eli's just off on the deep throws lately
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
yea
didn’t realize that until right after I hit post
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
alright, I'll take that
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
FreeWare!
Especialy w/ Jacobs hurt now and AB largely ineffective
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
Well Chargers just got jobbed on that call
Not too sure how that is a penalty.
The penalty was the hold on Smith
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Nov 8, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
he should not be playing
fumbles, penalties ineffectiveness, 10 carries 28 yds
just not good
two plays in a row
that guy came unchecked off the right side
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
my suspicion
the Giants are really only playing with 10 guys on D. That’s the only way to explain it, right?
That, or Sheridan calls the wrong blitzes at the wrong times. Or our defense is just slow. One of those.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
too much to hope for
can we ship him to the nursing home
Then stop watching and save everyone you're whining
at least I can recognize when something good happens
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Nov 8, 2009 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
if the Giants start scoring points...so is SD.
D is not playing that bad.
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow
Webster really tackled him… too bad the ball was not there.
please be offsetting
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
shiiiiiiitee
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Webster was absolutely scorched
If you’re burned that bad, might as well commit the PI and hope you can hold them to a FG.
by long time listener on Nov 8, 2009 6:09 PM EST reply actions
I know it helps the Giants sometimes...
but the pass interference rule is the biggest pile of crap.
Why not 15 yards or something?
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
b/c on plays like that you'd have incentive to cream the receiver
better to give up 15 yards than a deep pass
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
true...
but I mean a spot foul means the guy will catch the ball…
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
at least keep BLT out of the end zone
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
eventually those crap punts was always going to cost us
cannot even hit a 35 yd punt, totally useless
Well that sucks
Giants seem to get burned in that area all the time on short yardage for the TD.
they are quite possibly the worst red zone team I've ever seen
on both sides of the ball. Some teams are awful at one or the other, but the Giants are really atrocious at both
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
maybe its cuz in practice...
they have no idea what works, so the D stops it and they think its OK.
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
maybe.
or, maybe the offense scores at will against the D by running right up the middle every time, so they assume it’ll work in real games.
It’s a never-ending cycle
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
hey look at that
play action from inside the 5 works! Who knew…
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
That PI was crap!!!
It was underthrown and uncatchable.
It was legit
He whacked him in the face long before the ball was there.
Can't blame too much the D on that one.
PI call sucks…but they only have half the field to go.
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I told you so...
that those crappy punts would cost the game for us.
It´s time to look the market for new punters.
Yeah, we like NFL here in Brazil.
wow
what a great idea! Play action on short yardage.
Hixon seems to not have that fire back there anymore
on KR… how does that happen?
Jacobs rumbling
maybe he can start stringing some of these together?
he's running like he is looking for contact again...
…just dished it out to their MLB at the end of that run…
…and then proceeded to tell him all about it after the play.
Swagger!
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
I love Phil Simms
although the homer part of me wishes he were more of a homer too when calling Giants games
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
jacob back
thank god, hope we do not see bradshaw again
Nice run by Jacobs...
KG will take him out now to run Ab between the tackles.
Why when he checks to a different play out of the blitz....
is it not a quick slant?
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nicks is awesome
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
A reverse?
Who killed KG and took over playcalling?
Jim Zorn?
not like he’s doing anything in Washington
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
ohmigod
an end around that gained positive yardage?
Is that a Giants first?
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
WARE!!!!!
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
In the red Zone
they have a few minutes to gameplan it here… so how do they muck it up?
run to Bradshaw up the middle.
fade to Moss in the corner.
rollout to HEdgecock.
Simple isn’t it.
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What I like about this Ware sighting...
…is that it is coming at a time when the game is on the line. Let’s see what this kid can do when it counts!
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 6:21 PM EST reply actions
our top 2 back are hurt...
and it takes till the end of the 4th to get him in?
….coaching?
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
for me the best thing was
no game killing Bradshaw
The big question, re: Ware is:
Can he pick up the blitz?
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
I like Ware...
He’s a nice change of pace guy to bring in to save Jacobs for a few more carries.
If that pass is on the money, maybe he has a chance to make a move
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 6:23 PM EST reply actions
ok that's actually a good thing
now we’re out of the red zone…
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
That was good they called him down
I may have swore a whole ton there.
that call should stand
then the Giants should go ahead and run the QB sneak on 4th down.
by long time listener on Nov 8, 2009 6:25 PM EST reply actions
it was hard to tell from that last angle
but definitely not enough evidence to overturn it, so we should be good here
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Still upset about the spot ending the 3rd
Ware’s knee never hit the ground, was on top of people, and the ball was right over the 16, but they spotted it at the 17, and we could’ve used that extra yard.
Down
Pretty sure he was down. I freaked out though…
by Gelatin on Nov 8, 2009 6:27 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I dunno....
he might even have not caught it…
and his knee might not be down….
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
field goal unit
If our D doesn’t step up, our season is done.
by long time listener on Nov 8, 2009 6:29 PM EST reply actions
Ugh
I really don’t think the refs grasp the rules behind instant replay. It’s really supposed to be there for incontrovertible plays (you know, like the one where Eli was clearly in bounds before). If there’s ANY doubt, they should let what was called on the field stand
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Ok
KIck FG, Defense get a stop
then again, the Giant D has been kick FG, let other team get TD
ok.
At least we put some freakin’ points up.
by Gelatin on Nov 8, 2009 6:30 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I would feel better about that
if Strahan was patrolling the field.
Dear Bill Sheridan,
Please do not send Justin Tuck out in pass coverage for the remainder of this game. In fact, please do not send him out in pass coverage ever again.
Sincerely,
Step up and make big plays
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 6:32 PM EST reply actions
there we go
Big Fred Robbins!
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Do my eyes decieve me?
Or did we finally get some pass coverage?
by Gelatin on Nov 8, 2009 6:33 PM EST via mobile reply actions
TUCKKKKKK
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
3rd-and-forever
At a bare minimum, we better have outstanding field position out of this.
by long time listener on Nov 8, 2009 6:34 PM EST reply actions
Dare I say they are...
…stepping up and making big plays?
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
that was easily the best defensive stand of the season
now the O has to go out there and take the lead
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
WHAT?
Did we borrow someone elses D for a drive?
by Gelatin on Nov 8, 2009 6:34 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Hix with the nice return
I like it
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Gilbride wake the F*ck up
try something different
does it count as YAC
if you run back a few yards and then get back to where you caught the ball?
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
yea me too
their fans pissed me off a lot. I would have been rooting for them under normal circumstances too
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
the Saints are not winning the Super Bowl
I don’t know who is, but the Saints are going to blow it in the playoffs. I wouldn’t be surprised if they get a bye week and lose in the Divisional Round (like we did last year).
by long time listener on Nov 8, 2009 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
THE SLANT TO HAM!!!!
OOOOOOOHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OMG a trick play!
get the defibrillator, my heart just stopped.
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Nov 8, 2009 6:38 PM EST reply actions
when did we become a west coast offense
with wildcat formations
Correct.
Bills used to direct snap to Thurman and their 3rd down back Kenneth Davis all the time, long before this wildcat stuff
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
Bradshaw broke a tackle
this is Giants football!
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
BOSS MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
OHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Nov 8, 2009 6:40 PM EST reply actions
BOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Nov 8, 2009 6:40 PM EST reply actions
Dude, stop trying to harsh my buzz
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Nov 8, 2009 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
TOUCHDOOOOOOWWWWWWWWNNNNNN!!!
THIS IS MORE LIKE IT.
I’ll stop talking in caps now, but
I am EXCITED!
Where has the sense of urgency displayed on that last drive been during the three-game slide???
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 6:41 PM EST reply actions
I think it was cuz the D did what they did on the last series,.
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good teams build off of positives like this
…and carry momentum.
Let’s see how this continues to develop…
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
That was easily the best sequence for the Giants
since the Raiders game. And considering the opponent, I dare say that’s the best they’ve looked since the Cowboys game. Now to hold the lead…
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
NO BIG PLAYS!!!!!!!
AND GET RIVERS ASS ON THE GOUND!!!!!!11
caaaaareful
let’s not anger the football gods
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Time for the D
to overpower the O one more time. Get to Rivers and pressure him.
We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.
+1
it’s almost depressing. He should have called it quits 2 years ago
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
I have never trusted Tynes, even during the SB run.Still don't.
We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.
do not bring that weak sauce up in here!
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
WHat an unbelievably BAD CALL
KG sent it in! I can taste it.
See what happens when your DE stays home and keeps containment...
…rather than drop 15 yds deep into pass coverage?
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 6:46 PM EST reply actions
Justin Tuck is back, by the way
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
what are the chances
that Gilbride doesn’t call any run plays on this drive?
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
hope we do not see feagles again
or we are in trouble
Gilbride calls ALL RUNS
We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.
that's luck
although Scifres could probably still pin us inside the 5
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
never mind
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
has like 4 incompletions....
what’s wrong with the short passes?
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and like 3 of em were throw aways...
and the other one was the deep ball.
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
nothing
If SD stacks 8 or 9 in the box, there’s no reason Eli can’t take advantage with some short passes to move the chains.
by long time listener on Nov 8, 2009 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
..and how many of his incompletions have come while being chased out of the pocket?
he has been a model of efficiency this game.
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
I want to see
Jacob up the middle
Jacob up the middle and then more
Jacob up the middle
Nothing's wrong with short passes.
I just don’t think that’s what Gilbride will call.
We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.
alright, good start
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
agreed
let’s not give the ball up until 4 minutes into the Falcons game…
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
beautiful
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Wow a screen. Good call. Yehhh!
We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.
I don't think it was a call, but rather a check down...
…well-executed, nonetheless.
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
right there
missed a block on the blitzer, then dropped a pass
by long time listener on Nov 8, 2009 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
stay in bounds, AB
Besides “hang on to the ball,” that needs to be your mantra.
by long time listener on Nov 8, 2009 6:52 PM EST reply actions
ugh Brandon
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
PICKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!
BALL GAME!!!!!!!
by long time listener on Nov 8, 2009 6:55 PM EST reply actions
Not over yet
they keep it to a FG… they can still win.
TERRELL THOMAS
wow….this is the best quarter in a looooooooong time
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Whoooooooooo!!!!!!
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Nov 8, 2009 6:55 PM EST reply actions
would have been a perfect time for a play fake
I counted 9 in that box
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 6:56 PM EST reply actions
aaaaaaand a holding on Snee
Going to be awkward at Sunday dinner.
by long time listener on Nov 8, 2009 6:56 PM EST reply actions
Eat the clock
and try to get it in the end zone at the same time. TOugh slogging to do both.
We need 7 to put this away.
3 will be insufficient and give them life
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 6:58 PM EST reply actions
WHY??????????/
why can’t Gilbride pass the ball on 1st and goal
Now that muffed FG earlierqreally hurts
Another FG would make it 9.
This is Giants football
1) Win the turnover battle;
2) Control the clock;
3) Run/pass balance
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 6:59 PM EST reply actions
yep
I thought the pick put this game away. We need our D to step up yet again.
by long time listener on Nov 8, 2009 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
D is playing ball and you force them to make a decision between clock time and time outs..better than an incomplete pass/holding call.
yea it forces them to score a TD....
still, TD for the Giants ends the game.
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Right. No one was expecting the call, which makes it a good one, in my book.
And he had a head of steam there…one missed tackle and that is a TD.
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
Clock
doesn’t matter is you go up 2 scores.
doubt it.
gotta trust the way the D is playing right now.
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
11 for 67 for BJ today...
I like what I have seen
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 7:00 PM EST reply actions
and yet Bradshaw has gotten more touches...
Amazing huh??
that takes it to the 2 min warning
and it almost worked besides I’d rather see that thinking for Gilbride to actually kill the clock
squib kick worked that time
Special thanks to Sproles for touching it and running off a couple of seconds.
by long time listener on Nov 8, 2009 7:02 PM EST reply actions
worked before too...
I think they found something with the squibs.
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It comes down to this
do TC and Sheridan trust the D to keep playing the way it has been? Or do they sit back and play prevent zone and let them walk down the field to the point where they can take several shots at the end zone?
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Nov 8, 2009 7:04 PM EST reply actions
Call me crazy
but I almost prefer being up 3 than 6, b/c then the offense knows it can settle for a field goal. I think it takes a little of the urgency away. Still, it won’t matter if the D steps up and plays like it’s been playing so far this quarter
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
You are crazy.
Always take points.
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
over 100 yds in penalties?!?!?
Who are we, the Raiders? The 1991 Miami Hurricanes?
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 7:06 PM EST reply actions
Killdrive
We’ve got to try to get the TD on that last drive … too much time left to try to run the clock out there. It might work this time but I hate the strategy.
by NY Football Giants on Nov 8, 2009 7:07 PM EST reply actions
It help if we did not get a
1-GL on the 15
Penalties are killing us
Dude
that is a living tank he tried to stop with no momentum… he did a damn good job in all honesty.
Sproles on Boley?
We’re lucky it wasn’t a TD
by long time listener on Nov 8, 2009 7:10 PM EST reply actions
they can still make the playoffs
And once you’re in, anything can happen. That said, I have no faith in this team to make plays when they need to, either to get in to the playoffs or if, by some miracle, we are actually playing in January.
by long time listener on Nov 8, 2009 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
They go to 5-4
They have to go minimum 5-2 to have a relaistic shot at a widlcard. No way these guys do that.
this sucks
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
How much does the botched field goal hurt now?
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 7:11 PM EST reply actions
Of course.
How did I know these FG were gonna come back to bite us?
by Gelatin on Nov 8, 2009 7:12 PM EST via mobile reply actions
What I observed on this last drive....
…was that practically all of their yards came over the middle, and we were blitzing AP a lot there to no avail.
The middle of this defense is ridiculously weak.
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 7:13 PM EST reply actions
gottta go for the jugular
its on the coaching and play calling. it goes back to the offense
Gilbride
has to go. TC I don’t get it. You hear the play called.
WHEN does it end
I’m at a lose how this play calling can continue……..
And here I thought the play calling was vastly improved today...
…an end-around to Hicks, and efficient passing game.
…except for those third-and-1 calls, I really didn’t have a problem with the game plan.
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
you can't play not to lose
that’s the bottom line.
this looks like an 7-9 or 8-8 football team.
by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Nov 8, 2009 7:16 PM EST reply actions
yup
this was a 1997 type of loss
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
+1
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
God I hope not. One Mets season was enough for me... and everyone else.
What a terrible f’ing loss.
by Jsz on Nov 8, 2009 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
Simms is perfectly correct
they played the odds instead of playing for the win. Gutless coaching comes back and bites us in the ass, although with a big hand from a holding call. Well done Snee, supposedly a Pro Bowl guard and he’s holding as he’s bulled back into the backfield. What a gut punch.
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Nov 8, 2009 7:19 PM EST reply actions
Sorry, but this is that FG attempt is properly executed
we’re not even having this conversation right now. I don’t pin this one on TC.
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly
It’s about execution guys. You all flip out over the coaching. It’s about making plays. Pure and simple.
That's on the coaching staff
Unbelievable. Way to play it conservative and cost this team the game coughlin/gilbride. For those of you that agreed with the decision to run on 3rd and goal, you all are just as bad as our coaches, so I don’t want to hear you all complain this week. It’s gutless.
Guilty.. I thought it was a good call with the way the D was playing. Did not expect an easy 80 yd drive based on the 4th Q.
right.
might the gaping whole in the middle of our defense have something to do with how easy they marched down the field 80 yards on us for the winning score???
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
absolutely.. that’s why I keep screaming coaching.. They found ways to get Gates open on Danny Clark, different alignments (like getting Sproles free for the play that killed us) and we just keep plodding along. No imagination, nothing.. can’t fix it if they don’t admit it’s a problem.
run on
first and goal
first and goal
second and goal
third and goal.
not one F*cking pass
I'm fine with the runs
I’m not fine with the holding penalty. They were undisciplined today, and that’s inexcusable
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Navy beats Notre Dame
Giants lose late for playing conservative.
hey, at least I have the New York Knic… oh wait.
by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Nov 8, 2009 7:20 PM EST reply actions
WHAT?
Did anyone see the end of the game, was that Corey Webster smiling and hugging Phillip Rivers — the man that just abused you for the game-winning TD? I grant that players don’t live and breathe for this team as much as their fans, but personally I’d be a little pissed and upset I just blew the game.
I picked them 7-9 8-8, 9-7 at best, in the preseason...
Everyone said I was just a negative guy, no, everything I saw, all the flaws, are coming to fruition — everything. This team is mediocre at best, friends. Keep hope alive. It’s always fun.
But this team isn’t going anywhere this year. Yes, clean house. But it’s not Coughlin. Though he my be showing his age. The players do not have the gas to go 60 minutes. It’s a time to rethink and rebuild. Jerry Reese is no genius. Coughlin is fallible, of course, they’re human, as are the players, but they — and it sees most people on this board — bought into undeserved hype. Well, time to get back to my robot.
TC
needs to be fired for one reason and one reason only. His continued support of Gilbride. How can Gilbride not be held accountable. His play calling especially in the red zone is atrocious.
It is far beyond Gilbride, c'mon it's the whole effen team.
There are bright spots on this team. Eli is a good (not great QB), the WR’s will get better. The O-Line is a shell of what it was. Gilbride isn’t a genius, makes some questionable calls, yes, but it’s a top to bottom problem here, it goes deep, and now this team’s psyche is probably irreparably damaged, for now. This is a Fassel era Giant’s team. Weak in the head and gut.
100% correct
THis was a Fassel type of loss. Inferior oppenent and you blow the game with penalties and poor execution. AWFUL!!!!!!!! I’m freaking sick to my stomach
Prevent Defense
Works every time for the opposing offense
Jerry,
Please cut Antonio Pierce.
Thanks,
DB
Playing not to lose
We had lost 3 in a row and we play not to lose. It boggles my mind. Rivers is known for being great in the clutch and we think it’s a smart move because we only gave him 2:05 and 1 timeout. That is PLENTY of time. Time wasn’t an issue and we should have been throwing the ball.
Alright guys
another week, another getting a cold dose of reality… this team is not near as good as advertised. I think for my own soul I am on a self imposed football strike… maybe I will marathon the Back to the Future movies next Sunday. I need something to clean this foul taste from my mouth.
I am out, fun talking to you dudes, even if the Giants ruined the party again.
One more win this season ..
we beat the Redskins, but no-one else playing like this. Manning sacked 5 times today (O-line is rubbish). D-line played better, but still huge holes and lack of effort. Our saviours (Sintim, Boley, Bernard) were not enough … false hope. There needs to be some pretty major changes over the next two weeks, and some of the backroom boys should start checking out the ‘situations vacant’ columns.
He was like a god walking amongst mere mortals. He had a voice that could make a wolverine purr and suits so fine they made Sinatra look like a hobo.
who else they going to beat?
Not sure they would beat the Raiders of Bucs if they played them again. Oh wait, they are playing Dallas again, maybe that’s who you were thinking.
He was like a god walking amongst mere mortals. He had a voice that could make a wolverine purr and suits so fine they made Sinatra look like a hobo.
2 holding calls proved to be costly...
The one on us in the redzone when we got the INT and the one on the deflected pass. Unreal.
So this game is somehow Gilbride's fault
Even though the offense played one of their better games all year. Yes you run on 3rd and goal when you’ve got one of the better O lines in the NFL.
Blame it on Corey Webster even though he had a great interception and held Jackson under 100 yards, which not many DBs have done this year.
The blame for this loss is strictly on Lawrence Tynes. Does anyone have any idea what happened on that opening drive FG attempt?
But as for the season being over? Really? After playing a pretty good AFC West team closer than they’ve played the last 3 weeks? When there’s still lots of key injuries on the defense that should be back after the bye week? Only ONE MORE WIN this whole season? Ya’ll are fake fans. Worse than the doomsayers from the Yankee postseason game threads. If you’ve got so little faith in this team, good bye, see you next year.
P.S.—Would you rather Corey Webster punch Rivers? These men are football players on the field, but a lot of them are friends off of it.
????????
you run 4 straight running plays inside the 5?
Manning sacked 5 times today ...
that makes 11 (?) in the last four games. How many times was he sacked last year? This Offensive line has lost its way.
He was like a god walking amongst mere mortals. He had a voice that could make a wolverine purr and suits so fine they made Sinatra look like a hobo.
agreed
The offensive line has escaped criticism. They’ve been average this season. The running game is average. They’re also giving up lots of sacks. Defensive lines are getting lots of penetration.
Didn't you know
that 4 losses disqualifies you for the playoffs? It’s the BCS.
Everyone on here is an expert NFL coach, gm, coordinator.
The Chargers are the west coast Giants. Not as good as they're supposed to be.
The Giants got beat by a mediocre team.
SD is average
PR and thw WR’s are good players the rest of the team is average. How the Giants lost this game makes me throw up
Change the formation!!!
We go with 2 tight ends and a 1WR set on every short yardage situation and make it so obvious where the run is going . That is absolutely on gilbride. There is no originality.
And you have
called how many plays in the NFL?
Good logic
Keep defending a coaching staff that is in the bottom 5 in red zone percentage and 3rd and short percentage.
Good logic?
You’re delusional. You have no clue what really goes into call play in the NFL and neither do I. Yet you know EXACTLY what formation they should be in.
Give me a break.
So you can only
criticize coaching if you have coached at the NFL level? I don’t understand why you are even here. You have a problem with people criticizing Off Coord that has coached a team to one of the worst red zone percentages 3 years in a row. If you have a problem with hearing the criticism then go to giants.com
I just get tired
of reading everyone complain about the coaching and the play calls etc. It’s 90% execution regardless of what is called. This is not the Joe Walton coaching staff. Sometimes it really is on the players.
Plus, I just find it funny that everyone knows exactly what will work. Amazingly no-one has a job in the NFL.
No hostility
I’m just expressing how I feel about Gilbride. Nothing against blains.
But blains, by your logic, the Redskins’ fans should be content with Jim Zorn since he has coached more football than them.
Not what I mean
To me the players win games. The play calling is far down on the list even if it is crappy. If the players execute they win. I am not so much defending the coaching staff as I am blaming the players.
This has been one of the most successful Giants staffs in the SB era. And Parcells never had the Giants in the playoffs 3 years in a row.
But I would argue, that while not being a very good head coach, Jim Zorn knows more about football than 99.99% of redskins fans.
that makes it sadden
it sad that Kilbride with 15-20 years of coaching experience is this bad. This predictable.
agreed
the defense key on Hedgecock and crash down on him. Almost always the play is run behind Hedgecock.
Every every every every
good offense always goes down the field quickly at the end of games. It was obvious it was going to happen.
anyone that is calling for Coughlin's head
is not only stupid, but delusional.
am i upset? of course. but this is a coach that has taken the Giants to the playoffs in 4 of his 5 years here, including a Super Bowl win. i mean this isn’t the Yankees guys – it’s not championship or bust every year. give TC a break.
i’m down with handing Gilbride his walking papers though.
by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Nov 8, 2009 7:25 PM EST reply actions
+1 for perspective
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
+1
personnel issues on the defensive side of the ball are one of the main faults (LBs)
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 8, 2009 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not advocating
TC’s head. But he has to be held accountable for the god awful play calling especially in goal to go and red zone. He’s gotta hear the plays called. He wears a head set. This has been going on for seasons. Its not just this season.
Not Gilbride's fault...
you gotta go for the points.
THE BIG PLAY WAS THE PENALTY TO SNEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Exactly
The penalty tied their hands there. Then it became, make them use their time outs and kick the field goal and play D.
Penalty hurt but ...
when you have a chance to put the game away you need to go for it. 1st in 14 is something that offense can pick up if they are given a chance. Trying to defend the coaching of this game is not a position that you should be taking. We outplayed that team and came away with a loss.
by NY Football Giants on Nov 8, 2009 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
I guess the players made no mistakes
I think you guys get all crazy with the coaching and play calls. The players have to make plays, pure and simple. They didn’t make enough plays. How about Tynes makes that FG? How about Feagles punts the ball more the 35 yards? How about there is no holding on 1st and goal from the 4? How about the blocking is good enough the Jacobs scores on that last run? Etc. etc.
Blain come on now
So you like the play calling with 1st and goal on the 14? Why such allegiance to Killdrive?
by NY Football Giants on Nov 8, 2009 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
I don't have allegiance to them
He drives me crazy too. But to me a good team can say, “We are running this play.” and then go out and run it and be successful. I think everyone puts too much emphasis on the playcalling. If the players execute they will be successful. I don’t see how anyone can say coaching lost this game when there was a flubbed Fg, ove 100 yds of penalties, missed blocks, missed tackles, blown coverages, etc.
yeah but
do we have to run on first and goal. There’s too much time on the clock to worry about clock management. Get a TD there now SD needs 2 scores.
TC made a decision
To rely on his defense, which should have been able to get the job done. It didn’t work. That’s all.
Kinda is
Giants used to run the playaction so beautiful yet Killdrive refuses to use it. That play was perfect for it. And that draw on 3rd down shoulda been used immediately following the penalty. Needed to take a shot at the endzone there instead. An incomplete wouldn’t hurt our FG chances.
by YankeeDudeL on Nov 8, 2009 7:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Why Blitz Prevent does just that Prevents you from winning
I’m sorry, the field goal hurts no doubt, the yellow flags hurt, but what hurts more than that??? A DEF. COORDINATOR who just plain out STINKS!!!!!
You don’t blitz the entire drive and leave the middle of the field open. This dude has no CLUE
This team died today for me
I won´t be spending one more minute watching those damn mercenaries play. A total reconstruction on the coaching staff is necessary.
Yeah, we like NFL here in Brazil.
Why?
The coaching staff that won a SB. The coaching staff that has been in the playoff 4 or 5 years and 3 years in a row? Parcells never did that here.
It's not the coaching staff that won the SB
We have Sheridan instead of Spags and we won despite Gilbride’s ineptness in the red zone. Our D won that SB and we don’t have that coordinator anymore.
There is no way
this loss is on Gilbride. That run call at the end had to come from Coughlin. To be honest, KG had a terrific day calling plays. The Snee penalty screwed the Giants, not Gilbride.
Player's lost it
But our coordinators didn’t give us a chance to win. And Gilbride gives us zero chance of winning.
by YankeeDudeL on Nov 8, 2009 7:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Terrific except for 3rd and short
The fact that we consistenly run the same play on 3rd and 1 and it continues to get stuffed should be considered a fault of gilbride’s.
I did think we moved the ball. I like that we ran a few slants today.
all i know is that there is no way weve been getting lucky for the last 5 years
these players know how to win and i cant just accept that they arent as good as we thought. it has to be something more big. idk maybe the guys giving the orders on defense and offense need to go
by karamjitm9090 on Nov 8, 2009 7:32 PM EST up reply actions