Eli Manning vs. Philip Rivers: Who's better? Who really cares?
by Ed Valentine on Nov 4, 2009 12:06 PM EST
in New York Giants News
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PrintPhilip Rivers vs. Eli Manning. I really wanted to avoid a 'which guy is better' debate this week, but I guess I can't. At least not completely. Not now that our friends over at Bolts From The Blue have brought it up. And, not since you guys are talking about it some in Fanposts here and at BTFB.
These two will be forever linked by the 2004 trade that brought Eli to the Giants and landed Rivers in San Diego. And their careers will always be compared with Ben Roethlisberger, the other big-time quarterback drafted in 2004. My guess is this might still be a topic of discussion long after all three are done playing.
You know what, I really don't care about this debate. I used to go over and over in my mind whether I thought the Giants did the right thing by making the deal for Eli instead of just picking Roethlisberger. I really don't care to think about it any more.
I think it's pointless to try and figure out which guy is better. Rivers' career stats in terms of completion percentage and quarterback rating are clearly better than Eli's. For that matter, so are Roethlisberger's. It's hardly a fair fight, though, since Rivers is piling up number in sunny California where he rarely has to worry about wind, rain or cold.
My point is this. All three teams have darn good quarterbacks they should be thrilled with. Roethlisberger's numbers are up and down, but he has two rings. Eli has struggled the past couple of weeks, but he has a ring, has gotten better each NFL season and could well end up as the best quarterback the Giants franchise has ever had. Rivers has no rings, but he has already proven to be a gutsy, winning quarterback. If the Chargers ever put a good enough team around him he will get them a ring.
As far as I am concerned, the whole thing has worked out well for everybody. I like the guy the Giants have, and that's good enough for me.
By the way, we have always considered Eli a 'clutch' quarterback. Well, Forbes.com of all places has finally come up with a statistical way of finding out just who the best 'comeback quarterbacks' are. It's a fascinating read, a fascinating though flawed method, and I think you will be surprised at how well Eli fares by this measurement. In fact, all three quarterbacks we are talking about here fare well.
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I'd take the burger
simply because then we wouldn’t have had to dump some of those other picks that helped SD get so strong…
On top of that, he compares well statistically in a similar climate, in a tough division, and when he’s down or losing he doesn’t look like he got kicked in the head by a horse as a kid. When you see Eli start to look like a whiny imbecile, you know the game is in deep trouble.
You play to win the game!
Overall I'm ok
with the decision, and hell as you say it won a ring. I’m just saying the best pick was prob the Burg, and that when Eli is frustrated I hate his face…
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Nov 4, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
"...dump some of those other picks...,"
That’s how I felt when they made the trade. I’ve reconciled myself to it now. Thinking about it and comparing, etc gives me too much agita, particularly when when’s Eli’s going through a bad stretch like now. I’d say it’s a close call between the three of them now. After they’ve stopped playing and some time has elapsed after that, it might be easier to come down for one or another of them.
That’s me, ’ol wishy-washy.
It's all good, George
Comes down to this. Eli got the Giants a ring, and he will probably get another one before he’s done. That’s all I care about.
by Ed Valentine on Nov 4, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
That clarifies my
muddled thoughts, Ed. Thanks.
All we need to know
is this article
Sorry Ed if I have stolen your thunder again
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2671_Greatest+SB+drives:+where+does+Ben+rank?.html
by G Fan in England on Nov 4, 2009 12:44 PM EST reply actions
G Fan in England
Thanks for posting that. THIS is why it’s Manning all the way. All this other stuff, the ups and downs of a football season mean jack shit. Manning knew it was touchdown or nothing. He stands alone up there and it’s something he was born with. Rare stuff.
by takeoutburger on Nov 4, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
Happy with Easy E
Eli will probably give us frustration till the day he retires, but I will deal. He got another trophy for us and nothing else. He doesn’t have any off field issues like motorcycle crashes or accusations from Lake Tahoe. Nor does he flip off us fans when we tell him how we feel stay classy Rivers.
I'm with you.
Right now, all three are good. Some years don’t have any top-notch QBs. How many QBs who were highly rated in the draft are are now backups or out of football entirely? Eli was worth it. No drama except on the field. He doesn’t barf in the huddle. All we can ask for is a long career with a few more SB wins.
I actually did not like the trade
when it happened because it seemed like a lot to give up for a QB who was rated about the same as the other two and the only advantage he seemed to have was his last name. But after reading Acori’s book you could understand why he did it and what his thought process was. To me one of the most overlooked aspects of that trade was how good of a job Ernie did the following year in the draft with no first rounder and only 4 picks. He took Tuck, Webster, & Jacobs with 3 of those. Drafting that well dimished the fact that he traded most of the 05 draft for Eli. If he had 12 picks it would be tough to get 3 players of that caliber. That’s why he was a GM and I’m posting here.
by Landeta on Nov 4, 2009 1:15 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I generally cringe at player comparisons
These comparisons, like Peyton or Tom seem to never reach a conclusion, other than ones biased opinion. There are too many variables that each may have to overcome to achieve success. That goes without saying something about the strength of the organization and the team they field. Even weather could be a factor, but shouldn’t be a viable focal point. Afterall, Tom Brady has played in some miserable weather and has fared well, a true testament of his accomplishments!
But, back to Eli, Phil and perhaps Ben. People can crunch numbers until they’re blue in the face, but there is one common denominator, the strength of their respective organizations. Coincidentally, you can go back to Peyton and Tom to go along with Eli, Phil and Ben. These teams surround their QB’s with a nucleus that can sustain success for years.
Overall though, i think you could re-shuffle the three and come away with similar results. But i will say, it just so happens that Ben, Peyton, Phil and Tom play in the same conference, which may lead to an unjustifiable argument if your counting SB’s! Sustained success over a period of time should be accounted for first, this only gives you more of a chance at the ultimate goal, a ring!
Just a final thought. Given any QB though, either you have it, or you don’t. All of these QB’s mentioned seem to have it, so why argue if they’re your QB?!
Great post Hoot
I hate these comparisons too. Football is the ultamet team sport so a lot of succes any player has is due to the team around him, the QB is just the most visible and often the face of the franchise. If Tom Brady is drafted by the Detriot Lions do you think were talkiing about him as the best QB of all time? Maybe but I doubt it
by Landeta on Nov 4, 2009 1:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Awesome Post Hoot
Couldn’t say it any better!!..So I won’t try…
This argument is always apples and oranges....
While Rivers has the stats, Ben has the most rings..and Eli is just Eli (with his ring…), can’t we all just agree that all 3 are very good?
The way Rivers is going, even if he never gets that ring, he may be a HOFer. Ben? He’s probably as much a lock as any QB his age can be. Eli? So far..its debatable (we’ve even debated it on BBV of course…) tho I can’t argue him in there right now…too pissed at him.
Ed said it best in the title..who cares? Would any other QB be better than ELi in NY? I hate this sort of talk, cuz you don’t know that. Stats don’t translate from one team to the next, so I really wish people would stop making themselves look stupid and say “Oh..My QB would have won with that defense too!”.
All 3 are good. Rivers vs Eli is a nice storyline for Sunday. I just really wish Eli was playing like Rivers right now.
I still don’t think you can go and say anyone’s better based on Sunday’s outcome…..tho it would be nice if Eli made an argument for himself on Sunday.
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and reading that Forbes article...
its flawed, yea, yet when your in a top 5 with Brady and Peyton…and the other 3 are the 3 amigo’s from that draft class…what the hell is there a debate for? Those 2 are the best in teh game, and these guys are right there with em in the top 5.
Apples and Oranges.
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hated the trade, but...
Really it is ancient history now, as far as the QB’s go. With Rivers and the extra picks in NY would they have won the SB? Who knows! They might have picked inferior players in earlier rounds the next year, since lots of inferior players were picked before the Giants awesome picks in that draft.
What kills me is that the Chargers got a respectable kicker out of it. Just saying…..
Rivers is always on the "most talented" team in the NFL.
While it’s not all his fault they haven’t gone anywhere, his “number” is still zero. And there’s no guarantee if he comes to NY that that number is any different.
All I know is the Giants have a ring out of the trade, and I can’t be 100% sure they would if they hadn’t done it. I also know the Chargers don’t have one, and you can’t be 100% that that they WOULDN’T if it weren’t for the trade.
Useless speculation, but the score is still 1-0 early in this ball game, and it’s always nice to take an early lead. :-D
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Nov 4, 2009 2:00 PM EST reply actions
I think it's pretty easy to break down...
Talent + Skill =
1. Rivers
2. Roethlisberger
3. Manning
I loved the Super Bowl win + MVP, but I would take Rivers if I was drafting today.
Sorry, but it's always been and always will be
Manning. Call whatever he’s going through now a slump or inconsistency or streakiness, but Eli is the best of the three. People have the shortest memories, man. Eli’s the most perplexing athlete to a lot of people and he pisses them off sometimes, but this guy has balls. He never gives up. He doesn’t deal with stress by doing stupid things off the field. He just solid. Chargers fans, especially, are freaking obsessed with Eli. And they should be. I never wanted Ben, never will.
Everyone says Eli's only won b/c he had a better team
but they conveniently ignore that Rivers sat behind Drew Brees for 2 years while Eli was getting killed on a pretty bad team his rookie year, and making the playoffs with a fairly weak team his second year. And Tiki Barber was great and all, but he was no LaDanian Tomlinson, so it’s not exactly like Rivers stepped onto the field leading the ’08 Lions.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Winning
is the measuring stick, if Dan Marino won 3 or 4 superbowls he would no doubt be called the best, if Brady never won any he wouldnt be in the conversation, so we really won’t know til all is said and done, but right now it’s Ben, Eli and that whiny Rivers guy.
Given equal talent around them, with 2:00 left in the game, down 6 points, I’m taking Eli with no hesitation and praying Tynes isn’t the kicker lol.
here is an idea
pick up some secondary from the UFL!!!!
ok that might be a bit far fetched, but im watching the new york vs las vegas game and its pretty entertaining. It would be a ton better if they had anybody sitting in the crowd.
GO LOCOS!!!
oops I crapped my pants!
Dont know why that would be brought up in this thread...
but UFL players are under contract too. I’m pretty sure that they cant be picked up by an NFL team unless their UFL team lets them go.
because i felt like talking about it
i was joking about that pal take a chill pill
oops I crapped my pants!
It's a joke, sure,
but if there’s anyone worth bringing on board it might be a possibility. George Allen went to the Rams, breaking his contract with the Bears. Halas sued for breach and lost.
Whether that decision has any applicability I don’t know. Wenz, that’s the kind of brainstorming the Giants need. Throw out ideas no matter how wild they seem and see if they fly. There has to be some possibility that there’s a guy in the UFL who would do a better job than CC.
Unbelieveable!
Rivers or Manning? Who’s better? Who really cares? Everybody cares. If you’re a sports fan, comparisons of players, teams, eras, are the lifeblood of your conversations going back to your childhood. I don’t believe for a minute the self-serving goodness of all you self-proclaimed “folks who don’t care”. And stop with the “he got us a ring, that’s all I care about.” Trent Dilfer has a Super Bowl ring. Right now Eli is Trent Dilfer. Can any of you honestly say, taking off your blue-tinted glasses, that Eli is anywhere near the equal of Roethlisberger or Rivers? No way. Not even close. And the excuses used to denigrate the other two Qbs who happen to not be Giants? Ben plays for a great organization and Philip plays in sunny, windless, rainless California. Well, Brady just threw, what was it, 5 TD passes in the snow and cold. Bart Starr the HOF playing in Green Bay. Bobby Layne in Detroit. Hell, Shea was windier than the Meadowlands and Giants stadia could ever be and Namath’s in the HOF! Please, be fans but be educated fans. Be discerning fans. Ask a student of the game who isn’t a fan of any of the three teams and if they don’t say Ben, Philip and then Eli they’re not watching the same game I’m watching. Get real, folks. And be honest with yourselves and your team.
by nybaseballgiants on Nov 4, 2009 10:22 PM EST reply actions
The only one that's got on blue-tinted glasses
is you, buddy. A football season is no cakewalk and sometimes it gets ugly. You obviously can’t handle the ride. I can’t stand whiner fans like you who tell other people to get real. I got real at the Canyon of Heroes parade in ‘07. How about you? Trent Dilfer ended his career with one ring in a SB game that he managed. Eli hasn’t even reached the peak of his career yet, and the SB win he got, he grabbed by the throat. Where is the real ’discerning ’comparison? Like I said, take off the blue-tinted glasses. Pathetic.
by takeoutburger on Nov 5, 2009 12:52 AM EST up reply actions
To paraphrase Cuba Gooding Jr.,
“Show me the whining! Show me the whining!” This was the question that was posed – Eli Manning vs. Philip Rivers: Who’s better? Who really cares? You offer NOTHING in the way of rebuttal except for the overly emotional, know-nothing response “…Canyon of Heroes…” blah blah blah, and “…Eli hasn’t even reached the peak of his career yet,…” blah blah blah. The question remains “Who’s better?” and I responded to that and then added that I thought the “Who cares?” question posed afterwards was disingenuous and self-serving seeing as it would get the typical “fan” reaction of ELI WON A SB AND RIVERS DIDN’T/HASN’T so therefore Eli is better. It was last year, I think, that SI had Eli on a short list of the most overrated players in the NFL as voted by the players. Rivers was not on that list. Again, show me the whining!
by nybaseballgiants on Nov 5, 2009 5:31 AM EST up reply actions
Man...
You sure do cry a lot. Even my wife can hear you…
by takeoutburger on Nov 6, 2009 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
Nybaseballgiants...
How many consecutive seasons did Trent Dilfer throw for 20+ Tds and 3200+ Yards?
How many consecutive seasons did Trent Dilfer lead his team to the playoffs?
Last time I checked, Dilfer did not win a Super Bowl MVP.
Last time I checked, Eli Manning threw two go ahead TD’s in the fourth quarter of that Super Bowl, something only Joe Montana can also claim to have accomplished.
Eli Manning had more passing yards in the FOURTH QUARTER ALONE than Trent Dilfer had his entire game for crying out loud.
You don’t think Eli’s better than Rivers and Rothelisburger, that’s fine, I know who can lead these New York Football Giants to the promise land, and who would crumble under the pressure of playing the biggest sport in the biggest city of the world. But please be a discening fan, be an educated fan…you pretend to be a student of the game but with this kind of garbage spewing out of your mouth you come across as nothing more than a hater, because anyone who thinks Eli Manning is on the same level of Trent Dilfer, clearly needs to take of there “your favorite color here-tinted glasses.”
And just for kicks and gigs, let me ask you something, who was second in the league in basically every passing category for the first 5 weeks, it wasEli Manning. Now go ahead and come back say…“Oh Yea but he was playing terrible competition..” Interesting…because that’s the same competition Philip Rivers has the LUXURY of playing twice a year, year in and year out.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Nov 5, 2009 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
Read and react to what is written
“Right now Eli is Trent Dilfer.” I know you live in a black and white world but for others there is nuance and subtlety and language. Thanks though for the update, completely unnecessary, of Dilfer’s CV. Yes, if the argument is who is better, Eli is better than Trent Dilfer. You’ll get no argument from me on that. But the question posed was Eli vs. Rivers. And I’d take Rivers in a heartbeat. And furthermore, the last time I looked the season was 16 games long, not 5. And please, childish words like “hater” have no place in any adult conversation. Read and react to what’s written. Otherwise you come across as the same kind of “fan” who calls sports radio and asks, in all seriousness, Patrick Wills is good. Why don’t we trade Clark and Blackburn for him. Then our linebacker problem would be solved." No, I prefer to look at my team realistically, warts and all, not as this paradigm of all that is good. Enjoy those first 5 weeks. Some of us are looking at a much bigger picture.
by nybaseballgiants on Nov 5, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
And what's the bigger picture?
Because to me there’s only one picture…and that’s who’s holding the Lombardi at the end of the season. The season is 16 games long, you’re right about that…but all you have to do is get into the tournament. Those three to four games after the regular season are everything, and performing at a high level their will erase any bad memories from the first 16 games (see 2007). Interesting that you’re so ready to take another quarterback while Eli is struggling. Where were you the first five weeks, when he was leading the league in virtually every category? Don’t you remember Eli has been in this exact situation before, and everyone wanted him out (I can only see it safe to assume you were part of that pity party) and we know how that turned out. Super Bowl Champion.
I did enjoy those first five weeks and I will enjoy the next eight. Because this team, behind Eli Manning, will make the playoffs like they have done every year with him behind center. History will show that when the Chargers, behind Phillip Rivers, get into a Conference Championship game…they can not get over the hump. Whereas the Giants, behind Eli Manning, can. You say you’ll take Rivers in a heartbeat, and I say that’s fine bro, that’s your opinion and you can have him. But at the end of the day the fact still remains, Eli has succeeded where Rivers has failed. End of story.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Nov 5, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Heres a better comparison
The way Eli is playing now (last three weeks) is Trents career!
The way the Giants are playing now (last three weeks), is the ’08 Lions! It seem like an eternity since the Giants last won!
Ouch tito
I don’t have the energy to deal with these kinds of fans, but you do. Good stuff. What I don’t get is, why nybaseballgiants doesn’t get it. Manning has WON. This QB has given you, us, the Giants, the greatest play in Superbowl history. Get outta here with this Rivers crap. He can’t hold Manning’s jock, and once that injury takes its course (which I hope it does soon), nybaseballgiants will crawl back into a hole.
by takeoutburger on Nov 6, 2009 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
Really???
Rivers has had the best RB of this generation and the best TE in the NFL since he became a starter. Had a MONSTER D since he became the starter. And what has he done with all of that talent?? NOTHING. Eli led the NEW YORK Giants to a SB win over an 18-0 Juggernaut. I emphasized NEW YORK because NY is the hardest place to play in sports, especially if you’re Archie’s kid and Peyton’s brother. Rivers lousy attitude and cocky demeanor would have had him ran out of town by now. Give me Eli anyday.
So...
And here I thought the Chargers underachieved because of the coach or because the MONSTER D as you call it doesn’t show up at crunch time or because they come up against better, more complete teams in the AFC playoffs (Pats, Colts, Steelers to name 3). But thanks, now I know it’s all on Rivers because he’s clearly done NOTHING (even though he had Tomlinson and Gates) and New York is the hardest place to play in sports and anyway, Rivers has a lousy attitude and a cocky demeanor that would have had him run out of town by now. Thanks for the well-thought out analysis. Let me ask you this – Is Eli Manning a better QB than Dan Marino? Marino constantly showed up his receivers with his language and his body language. Marino’s cocky demeanor had Dolphins fans (I won’t call them Fish fans because Dolphins are mammals) thinking he could walk on water. Marino played for arguably the best coach of his generation. BUT HE NEVER WON A SUPER BOWL. Who’s better, Eli Manning or Dan Marino? Who would you rather have?
by nybaseballgiants on Nov 5, 2009 5:15 AM EST up reply actions
Rivers has the talent around him but has no coach. The Chargers manage to win some games because of their talent, if they had a good coach they would have at least won a couple of rings.
by frenchcharger on Nov 5, 2009 5:44 AM EST up reply actions
funny...
I’d love to have Norv Turner as the OC of the Giants (…tho not the HC…)
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Eli all the way.
As a Raider fan, I hate that my favorite team has to face this whiny, arrogant jerk twice a year… in large part because he’s a jerk, but also because he’s got (some) talent. As a Giant fan, however, I don’t think I could ever be comfortable rooting for him. Even if the team was successful… which they probably would be with Rivers… he still wouldn’t be on my list of favorites. I hate his personality. As far as I’m concerned, the Giants did the right thing. Eli’s a class act (for the most part), and he’s someone that we can all root for (for the most part). Opposing fans might have their reasons for hating him… the majority of which are lame and trivial… but he’s a good guy and he deserves all of the success that he gets. Can’t say the same for Rivers. Personally, I hope that he, and the Super-Chokers, never win a Super Bowl.
"We're Rock Stars... We're Lakers."
-- Lamar Odom
"We had the skull-and-crossbones on our helmets, the black jerseys, and the whole bit... and we lived it."
-- George "The HitMan" Atkinson
"WE STOMPED YOU OUT!"
-- Michael Strahan
by 5_Giant_Raider_Clipper_Laker_13 on Nov 5, 2009 1:10 AM EST reply actions
Minus the picks
At this point don’t matter who is better, what matters is the scouting need to improve.
We did give up some very good draft picks.
Assuming all three QB’s are equal, Our Giants are minus the draft picks.
It is what it is..
All three of them are talented athletes at the QB position..Eli is simply slumping right now…that happens..He’ll work his way out of it..But I must say for the folks that think Rivers is “whiney” or whatever…Your dead wrong!!..I watched his entire NC State career, met him and even had him sign a football for me which I have in my sports memorabilia room…He is a great kid with a serious passion for the game..and he is one tough SOB..I jumped up and down when the Giants drafted him and must admit instantly deflated when they made the trade, because I was biased towards him. I am well beyond that now. Eli also is one tough SOB..He has issues he will I’m sure fix..and he’ll get us another championship or two before he’s 4 and out. Big Ben is also a proven champion…but he brings excess baggage to the table that the Giants organization wouldn’t put up with..I don’t believe his latest fiasco with that floozy..but who needs that shit? I sure as hell don’t…So basically we have been drawn into debating a mute point..At this juncture who cares? Really who cares?..Let’s hope our QB and our team fixes their problems..A QB doesn’t single-handedly define a team..the whole team does. A QB is defined and succeeds by the players he is surrounded by..How many years did Phil Simms suffer because he had no recievers to throw to???..Eli has a talented but growing group..and in time some of them will reach superstar status..Bottomline, Big Ben is a Steeler, Phillip is a Charger and Eli is our guy…So who cares?..In fact I can’t believe I am taking part in this dumb-ass debate…Fix the DEFENSE, Coach!!!
PR is much better
Talk about weather or fans or wathever, Phlip Rivers is more contatant and very rarely has a bad game.
This guy only needs a good coach, then he’ll get some rings.
Oh I agree..french..
Phillip Rivers is a great QB..and He’ll have his day..I love that kid..and can’t stand it when people criticize him..The Chargers have a good shot at the title..In fact I don’t understand why they are not way out in front of their division..What do you think the weaknesses are with them?..It sure isn’t QB or running..I am a diehard Giants fan but I’ll always root for Rivers (unless of course they play us..lol)..I had him sign a football for me after meeting him in his senior year at NC State, because I knew he was special and was going to be a great NFL QB
Trading Eli For Rivers is like trading a Dollar for a Half Dollar
Look, I am a Giants fan to the death, but let’s keep it real people…… Eli is a average quarterback at best!! His decision making sucks most of the time, his accuracy is below average just like his scrambling ability, and he just doesn’t take command in the huddle like a true leader of the huddle is supposed to. Yeah he got us a ring, but so did our front D-line let’s not forget about that either. Phillip Rivers would have probably got us two rings by now if we would’ve kept him and we would’ve probably won three with Big Burg. Eli just doesn’t have the talent of his brother or these other two guys. He can not rescue a team if they are behind more than two scores like these other guys can, and when was the last time you saw Eli on a Hot streak in Fantasy Football,… NEVER
by PaulieKnucklez1 on Nov 5, 2009 10:37 AM EST reply actions
Right there with you, Paulie K
And I’ve never played a second of fantasy anything. +1
by nybaseballgiants on Nov 5, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
PaulieKnucklez1
NYbasbeallgiants.
When did stats become more important than winning?
You can have Dan Marino. I’ll take John Elway.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Nov 5, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
god, you folks don't read anything
i brought up marino as an example of a great QB who never won a super bowl. and simply asked, as per the question posed at the top of the thread, who would you rather have, eli or marino? is there really a human being who’s watched a football game who would say eli??? don’t think so. but thanks for bringing john elway into the argument.
by nybaseballgiants on Nov 5, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Eli Manning = John Elway
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Nov 6, 2009 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
To enfoce further...
John Elway – Legend for his ability to drive his team down the field with games on the line (sound like anyone we know?). Winner of two Super Bowls.
Career QB Rating – 79.9
Career Passing % – 56.9
Why is it, that with these kind of stats, Elway is considered a god in Denver, in the Hall of Fame, and is widely respected as one of the greats by all NFL fans, But with similar stats…and even MORE SUCCESS to this point in his career, Eli is treated like a second class citizen, even by his own “fans”?
Stats mean nothing. How you play with the game on the line, how you play when the pressure is on mean everything. Winning football games is everything, and Eli does that a hell of a lot better than Rivers.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Nov 6, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
When we are talking about overall who’s better, is Kenny Smith( Houston Rockets) or Tyrone Lue( ex-LA Laker) better than Charles Barkley or Lebron James because they have rings? We all know the answer to that. Stats is what make you a star, even though rings make you a legend, so lets not forget that stats are very important. Now back to Eli, he cannot flourish without tall, athletic recievers with good hands because of his lack of accuracy. I’ll say that stats only don’t matter when we’re talking about two bums, however, in this case we are talking about a O.K. quarterback and a good, borderline great qb that was traded off simply for a name’s sake. I’d still take Phillip Rivers or Rothlengsburger over Eli ANY DAY!!!!!
by PaulieKnucklez1 on Nov 5, 2009 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
As I said before.
Eli has succeeded where Rivers has failed. End of story.
Who was the BEST QB in the 2007 Playoffs?
If you say anyone other than Eli Manning, you’re lying to yourself.
Playing at a high level in those four games is more important than any 16 game regular season numbers you can compile. That’s it.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Nov 6, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
probably...if...maybe...
NOT.
when was the last time you saw Eli on a Hot streak in Fantasy Football,… NEVER
If you’d like to be taken seriously…I suggest you don’t mention fantasy world.
DO WHAT JERRY HAIRSTON DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 5, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Two with Rivers and
THREE?!! with the Burg! Quit sniffing the glue. You’re killing me…
by takeoutburger on Nov 6, 2009 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
You're arguments are cogent, ny.
I already weighed in on the side of the “who cares” camp. The arguments put forward to contradict yours are persuasive, if not as purely logical. I honestly believe it’s too soon to make a valid judgement. They’re all very good. They all have the potential to be great. We’ll have a better idea as time moves on.
Yes, some of us seem to see Eli through rose colored glasses (i.e., he’s the greatest thing since sliced bread and bottled beer) but my sense is that most BBVers see him whole. I didn’t like the trade that brought Eli to us. Thinking about what ifs gives me too much agita, so I don’t think about it. The situation is what it is. Eli’s our QB. He’ll retire as our QB.
All my life I’ve yearned for things that never were, never would be, never could be Now, an old man with hairless shins, what was once a murmur is now a howl—death is impending. Now, I don’t care about those things. Don’t care at all. At all. That’s how I feel about comparing the QBs. Not very logical, I suppose as an answer to the valid questions you raise, but there it is. This doesn’t preclude my wish every Sunday that ther Giants come home with a win.
BTW, I too was once a NY Baseball Giants fan. I grew up in Jersey City and watched the Jersey Giants, guys like Irvin, Thompson, Lockman, Maglie, in fact most of those great Giants players of the late forties and fifties go up the the NY team. That was why I rooted for the Giants. How did you become a fan?
and thanks for the cogent, and poetic, reply
my mother grew up in washington heights (manny ramirez’s neighborhood!) and skipped school to go see mel ott. she was also a huge willie mays fan and when we lived in the bronx she’d say “what’s all the noise about mantle? the best centerfielder ever is right across the river.” and yes, eli is our QB. but honestly, i don’t buy the magnanimous attitude of most on this site who claim that they don’t care. You have the benefit of age and wisdom, not necessarily a combo for all. but seriously, who’s better and who would you rather have are staples of sports-talk and can be intelligently handled. i find it hard to believe that the numbers of fans who claim to be disinterested in those would really be truthful. and it is incredibly disingenuous to put up a headline that reads, “who’s better? who cares?” when i just see far too many people simply wanting praise from the blogmaster/s.
by nybaseballgiants on Nov 5, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
i hear you.
Anway, Mel Ott. I saw him play at the Polo Grounds many times. Tremendous power for a short guy (i won’t call him small because he was built like a fire plug.) He had a foot hitch that helped with that power (as did the extremely short right field wall down the foul line.) I agree with your mother concerning Willie (It’s been years since he played so I feel comfortable saying that.) Had he played at the launching pad in Atlanta, he would surely hold the HR record today. Instead he played in Candlestick with the wind blowing in from left field. Too bad he didn’t know when to hang up his jock. He was pathetic with the Mets. The guy who could throw a strike from deep dead center in the Polo Grounds (I don’t think anyone hit a HR over that wall) to home, couldn’t only reach 2nd base on a bounce when he was a Met. When the Dodgers went to LA, the Duke had it worse at Chavez Ravine than Willy did at Candlestick.
Bottom-line..
Eli Manning is our QB..I like Phillip Rivers for reasons I stated earlier, and Big Ben is a big pain in the ass..I will not post another opinion on this thread..Eli is our QB..and we need to talk about Eli..He’s in a slump right now..but he’s our QB…and he’ll fix his problems.
Eli, Philip & Big Ben
While it may be impossible to say which of the three is the better QB, it is eminently possible to categorically state that the draft-day trade was a disaster for the Giants, who didn’t merely trade Eli even-up for Rivers , which to my mind would have been a big enough mistake, but they also gave up significant draft picks in the deal, one of whom turned out to be Pro Bowl linebacker Shawne Merriman (as a further benefit of the trade, the Chargers also wound up with Pro Bowl kicker Nate Kaeding).
Any fantasy GMs out there who would trade those three for Eli?
Sorry to say, but any article that evaluates the three QB while failing to mention what the Giants actually surrendered, has to be considered, I’m sorry to say, superficial.
BTW, although QB comparisons can be difficult to make, I would take either Roethlisberger & Rivers over Manning. They have better arms, are more accurate passers, and they are much more mobile than Eli.
Richard J. Brenner
by richard j. brenner on Nov 6, 2009 1:00 PM EST reply actions
"the draft-day trade was a disaster for the Giants"
Since that draft day, how many Super Bowls have the San Diego Chargers won?
How many have the Giants won?
I’ll take that disaster any day of the week, twice on Sunday.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Nov 6, 2009 2:26 PM EST reply actions
The Super Bowl Win is Completely Besides the Point
What’s more if you had read more carefully, you would have noted that I included Roethlisberger in the discussion, who the Giants could also have taken in that draft. According to your logic (sic) Trent Dilfer was a better quarterback than Dan Marino and Big Ben must be twice as good as Eli.
richard j. brenner
by richard j. brenner on Nov 6, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
Not at all actually.
According to my logic, the team that has won more Super Bowls since that draft had got the better end of the deal. If the Chargers draft was so great that year, why hasn’t it led to any SB victories? And if the Giants was such a disaster, why have they consistently made the playoffs and won a bowl since?
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Nov 9, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
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