Getting to the heart of the Giants' issues
by Ed Valentine on Nov 28, 2009 11:11 AM EST
in New York Giants News
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PrintHere is a pretty darn good summary of the issues our New York Giants have. It comes from Michael Lombardi of the National Football Post, and it echoes much of what I said the other day in the 'Kudos & Wet Willies.'
From my viewpoint, the Giants are too slow on defense, especially at linebacker. They lack explosive players and seem unable to shut down the extra yards. They’re not fast or quick to the ball, and the holes never seem to close down fast enough, nor are they able to explode on the ball carrier and force turnovers. This has been the G-Men’s problem all season, and each week it becomes more relevant. They just don’t seem to be able to defend the horizontal width of the field because of their lack of speed within the structure of their defense.
Then their offensive line is not nearly as dominating as it’s been in the past, which prevents them from being explosive on offense or able to consistently execute on long drives. Just because they have the same five players on the offensive line each week, it doesn’t mean they’re all playing to the same level as they have in the past. They just don’t look as effective as they once did. Whether it’s because they’re injured or have gotten old, they still are not as productive.
Your thoughts?
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That is all heart
As Herb Brooks famously noted, “you don’t have enough talent to win on talent alone.” This year’s Giants travesty is like all the other years of mediocre football, a decent team that doesn’t feel the need to exceed. Without that dynamic leader like Strahan (’we’re in it, might as well win it.’) or the crew under Parcells, this team plays to the least common denominator, and I think it starts with Eli.
Without another leader that will pull the team, the eyes naturally look to the QB as the guy to follow, and while ‘easy’ did make some 4th qtr comebacks before the SB, “what has he done lately?” Not much. Recently, it seems the Giants consistently LOST the close 4th qtr games.
Watched the “America’s Game” on the 1990 Giants. Carl Banks was talking how the defense used to have a sub-game on when the other team “just gave up. Sometimes it wasn’t until the 4th quarter, sometimes it was before halftime, but they always gave up.” This years Giant team gives up way too soon. Each game.
Disagree about Eli,
he doesn’t play defense last time I looked and thats the unit that started the downfall. If the defense was anything close to the past or what we thought they were we would be 9-2 and life would be good. When your defense can’t stop anyone, especially late in games you can’t blame the QB for not being a leader. I’m not saying Eli has been great, but a good defense makes an average offense look above average, and try to remember Eli’s injury, which all information says is hurting and will until he rests for several months, so being tough is being a leader.And I won’t even mention the atrocious special teams play, again, Eli does not play on this unit.
by BigBlueCrew_jfl on Nov 28, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
I disagree in part.
Ever since we played game number six, our offense just has not sutained any real drives on a consistent level. We’ve had a pile of 3-and-outs since then. And while I know that the defense has absolutely stunk the joint up, the offense leaving them on the field repeatedly is not a good thing. Like I said before, (and i’m not sure) I bet the Giants defense was on the field longer than the offense in the first half vs. Denver.
Not a good thing, and I’m sure it has contributed somewhat into a grouping of lackluster defensive efforts.
We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.
2009 draft
It’s too soon to judge Jerry’s draft, but so far they have contributed next to nothing, even though the team has struggled in all three phases of the game. (Nicks has been the exception.) That Sintim, a guy they thought about taking in the first round, can’t crack the starting lineup is a bit troubling.
Some feel that TC won’ play rookies, but I disagree. No way the team wins the SB without Ross, Smith, Boss and Bradshaw.
What do you guys think about Kiwi? he talks a good game, but he has shown no signs of being anything other than a serviceable player.
by IRememberRocky on Nov 28, 2009 11:39 AM EST reply actions
I said this earlier
I think JR had a really bad off season. The D line must be injured cause I’ve never seen Tuck be as unproductive as he has been. I always said Osi was just a pure pass rusher and the DTs somehow regressed big time.
I also don’t think JR did enough for the LB corps. Boley was a good signing but Pierce and everyone else are way too slow and their play got even worse with the D-line not helping out as much.
Looks to me like Seuburt isn’t the player he once was, and the run blocking as a whole isn’t as dominant.
Steve Smith and Manningham will be scary next year or the year after so you got that to look forward to
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
Yes Joe
We have a bunch of issues on both sides of the ball..I won’t blame Reese for them..We just need all 22 players to step up and do their jobs..and that includes the coaching staff..Smith Manningham and Nicks are looking good, but Eli needs the time to get the ball to them..The pass blocking has stunk, picking up blitzes has stunk..The holes are there in the running game, but our 260 lb battering ram is trying to be Barry Sanders instead of blasting straight ahead…Other than that, we looking pretty good (sic).
A fairly sober assessment from the outside Joe.
Tuck is likely mediocre due to injury.
Seubert is either hurt or declining (and McKenzie is on his last legs).
The LB corps is really disappointing, and lacks speed.
I’d add Nicks to Smith and Manningham as to what to look forward to.
I don’t think I’ve ever felt as good about our roster going into a season before, especially on D. They have not played to potential, and you have to lay that at the feet of the coaching staff. Just don’t think our coaches know how to “push the buttons” on players to get their best like Parcells, Belichick, etc. know how to do.
Bingo, theres two areas that need to be upgraded (addressed)
In the confines of what the article alludes to…
They just don’t seem to be able to defend the horizontal width of the field because of their lack of speed within the structure of their defense.
The Giants lack overall team speed. I don’t expect everyone to fly around with a 4.2 40 time, but by identifying 4 areas on the defensive side, with our starting DT’s, MLB and SLB, theres no speed to think of.
-Starting with our DT’s? Thats it, a big “?”! This team needs a combination of a Shaun Rogers (his presence), Warren Sapp or a John Randle type. The latter two could do it all!
-Now with our MLB, AP is on the wrong side of his career and Blackburn isn’t the long term answer but preferrably best suited for spot duty in a short span. Goff, he may be the most gifted athlete of them all, but nothing to suggest he has a quality-filled career ahead of him. Afterall, he’s virtually still a rookie after being out last year, so we’ll have to wait! So in terms of what would be ideal that brings everything, leadership, passion, skills and playmaking ability, i’m thinking of a Ray Lewis (on the field) type of player!
-Like AP, our SLB, Danny Clark is on the wrong side of his career, and like Goff, Sintim is a rookie that hasn’t played too much. He’s suppose to bring atleast the presence of a pass rush, so he must have some speed, but can he be an everydown player? I’m willing to see how this plays out!
So given that the Giants pass rush and run defense have been missing, i believe these areas with greater speed, can help shore up alot with what has been missing. I know it’s easier said than done!
Soft in the middle
DT and MLB are questionable for the Giants, no matter who they have playing there at this point. If the defense isn’t solid up the middle, it’s not much of a defense at all.
by Ed Valentine on Nov 28, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Speed on D
LBs in particular are not athletic enough. I would rather see Sintim play and make mistakes than suffer with Clark any more.
And give Goff some snaps. See what you have.
Giants seem to have faded quickly in a few spots. Maras may have to sign a FA or two to make up for it. Any stars at MLB hitting the market?
Carlos Dansby From Arizona will be top MBL available
Aubrayo Franklin from SF will be the top D-Tackle available. Robbins and Cofield are FA’s don’t resign them and cut Bernard and bring in Fanklin from SF and draft a few guys at D-Line and Backer. Let the rookies Goff , Sintim, Kehel compete to get on the field along with Boley.
Sorry my mistke
Dansby was resigned in 09 I got him mixed up with their other LB Bertrand Berry who will be a FA in 2010
Our DTs unfortunately suck
I think that’s why Reese went overboard with the DT signings
Cofield and Robbins are both coming back from major surgery. Cofield I think is young enough to maybe improve a little next year, Robbins is done after this year with the Giants I would think.
I don’t think anyone thought Bernard would waste that much space. I think someone rated him as the 2nd best DT free agent.
I don’t want to judge Canty yet, he’s had three games to set his feet back. If he doesn’t make improvement vs dallas, than I’ll be prepared to call him a bust.
Don’t forget, we get Alford back next season. That will help next year with the lack of push up the middle.
MLB is our definite weakness. Pierce may be back one more year, but I think he’ll be splitting snaps next year with whoever the Giants think will be our future there.
I hate Flozell adams so much right now. Its all his fault Tuck had been underacheiving. I’ve never said this about a player, but I hope Tuck injures his sorry ass. One despicable player, and another reason I hate the cowboys
Single cover the real Steve Smith at your own peril
Disagree about one thing
He did draft Clint Sintim in the 2nd round, which will turn out to be a nice signing. Sintim has been slow to progress, though, largely because of injury. I think he will turn out to be a very good player.
The defensive tackle moves have not worked out.
by Ed Valentine on Nov 28, 2009 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
The Bernard and Canty signings ...
certainly have not played out well in the near term. Gotta believe Canty is not a complete bust, but rather slowed by injuries in 2009.
Sintim looked like a beast in pre-season, but not sure it was against other team’s first stringers.
I have the same feeling about Canty
Hopefully he’s not the total FA bust, but rather that it was the injury and getting up to speed?! But the more i think about it, our DT’s as a unit, there should be a concern. Alford (IR), Bernard, Canty, Cofield and Robbins — if we move along at this pace and beyond, it’s not looking good!
Keep Cofield. Sintim at MLB.
He is young with plenty of time to return to being a B+ player. Keep Canty. The transition from 3-4 to 4-3 takes a year – THIS year. Dump Robbins and Bernard. Alford comes back. Draft another DT and you have a four DT rotation.
This is it for AP. His lack of athleticism is NOT compensated for by his leadership. Play Goff some this year to see what he can do. Sintim MIGHT be a solution there.I think he would be a monster MLB.
Boley is good not great. Dump Clark., Wilkerson & AP. Make a decision on Kehl.
Sintim is NOT an MLB
He has never ever in his life played MLB. In college he was a 3-4 OLB – like D Ware on the cowboys and James Harrison on the Steelers. Hes never in his entire career played in the middle over the center, we cant expect him to change in 1 season. Especially since we need help at strong side LB anyway and Clark won’t be resigned anyway.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Nov 30, 2009 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
JR's drafts have been fine
07, Ross, Smith, Brdashaw, Boss, Alford. Very Good
08 Phillips, Terrel Thomas, Manningham. KP got injured, imagine our D if TT was not there to back up Ross, Manninham has made great strides. I actually think Kehl and Goff might be good but for some reason the Giants don’t want to play these guys. Kehl should get some reps.
09, Nicks, Beaty, Sinitim. Like you said Ed, Sintim could be really good, Beaty is already playing in jumbo packages and started a game for McKenzie, Nicks looks like he’ll be a player. Barden, Beckum, Andre Brown juries still out.
JR’s biggest mistake this offseason was not brining in a quality saftey to backup Phillips and Johnson and running the risk of an injury really hurting the team.
I know Canty and Bernard do not look like good signings at this point but you have to give him credit for adressing the D-Tackle position. Everybody said go get a FA WR or Trade for one but he realized DT was a bigger problem and made an attempt to correct it. Say what you want but JR has a good feel for this team. He will be critized for the amount of money he gave those guys but behind Haynseworth they were the highest rated FA D-Tackels and who knows maybe he wanted to pay for Haynsworth but ownership would not let him. This was not his best offseason but I feel confident he will make moves to help this team in the offseason.
agreed 100%
JR didn’t overspend on a receiver, and tried to address the DT, can’t help that they turned out to be subpar.
JR definitely mis shot on the safety position, but not everyone is perfect.
Don’t we have all those safety guys on the practice squad anyway?
Single cover the real Steve Smith at your own peril
Safety Issues
And as much as we still don’t want to compare the two teams when JR was making his FA signings on the off-season surely the SB-2007 team was still on his mind? i.e. Great D-Line masking issues in the secondary.
Let’s be honest our SB starting safeties that year were Gibril Wilson and James Butler both guys that have been let go in FA since then (GW straight after that season and then again by the Raiders!). Surely if these guys were that good JR would have kept them then? (and can’t actually remember who the back-ups were then anyway? M. Johnson?) Instead he’s tried to work with what he’s got in that position and knew that he had a rising star in KP but no one saw the injury coming (although with what it is you would have thought the trainers may have spotted that one earlier??) – and therefore thought he’d be okay at that position providing he followed the SB winning model and bolstered the D-Line. And that is a model that many teams have tried to replicate in the last couple of years; that team really highlighted how important the D-Line is to a team again.
As for the drafts the last 3 years – they’re looking pretty solid. Obviously this year’s group hasn’t had an immediate impact but would the 2007 group have done if there hadn’t been injuries to D. Ward, Shockey, etc? The Giants don’t like playing their rooks and completely agree that some of our now 2nd year players are really getting the job done and hopefully we’ll see this year’s class do the same – rather it were this year than next right now, but think we’ll be lucky to see that while some semblance of a play-off chance still exists
Landeta, who's post are you referring to?
I know i didn’t say anything about JR’s drafts, but your response is underneath mine to some capacity. Just asking! lol
haha sorry about that Hoot
I was responding to IRememberRocky’s post way up there about JR’s drafting not being that good outside of 07, I think Ed made a comment about it and I was responding to him but there were so many it looked like I was responding to you. Rocky’s post is all the way up there my post does look odd there . . . lol.
Not a problem. Sometimes things are misinterpreted when there not intended!
I actually re-read the posts several times for a source, thats why i inquired. :)
coaching's fault
these coaches are inflexible and unresponsive, they don’t change when things aren’t working. They don’t get the best out of the personnel the have, and they won’t use their best personnel.
Would the linebacker’s be slow if it was Boley, Goff and Sintim? If the personnel doesn’t know the plays, either the plays need to be simplified or the coaches are at fault for not coaching the schemes right. Is there any question that a tall receiver that can go up and get the ball is valuable? I mean it works for Drew Brees, Phillip Rivers, and Orton. Why is it that Eli is SUPPOSED to not need one, why do we have one riding the bench? Is there any question that something is not working in the middle of the defensive line, why do you have Canty playing end? Is there any question that Brown is garbage? Why did he play so many games before that was addressed? Why are Boss and Kiwi totally underused? Why do we pretend that players that are clearly injured or not 100 percent are going to out perform rookies, young energetic eager guys, in week 12. Why don’t we even see these rookies, when we’re playing like we might come back from a 3 score deficit with 3 minutes to go. Would it kill the coaches to experiment, or try something different?
Next time the game is out of reach (which shouldn’t even be that long, the way things are going) I want to see osi and kiwi on the ends, tuck and Canty in the middle, i want to see boley and Goff and sintim at linebacker, i want ross and rouse at safety, and tt and web at cb.
Oh yeah, I want to see Barden fail once before i give up on him, I want to see any running back besides Bj when he’s averaging 2.7 yards per carry, i want to see some new faces in the OL, when it’s crumbling.
I don’t want to see long passes to short recievers in traffic, rb draws out of a shotgun on 3rd and goal, or cc brown ever again. I think the players and spags won that superbowl, not Coughlin. time for something new. He should’ve stopped this implosion a long time ago.
Tuck
I’ve said this again, and again, and again. And I will keep saying it. Tuck CANNOT go in the middle because of his shoulder injury. I would like to see him there on passing downs, too, but the only way to protect that shoulder at all is for him to come from the outside. He just can’t take hits on it.
by Ed Valentine on Nov 28, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
Tucks injury is a 2009 problem
Anyone can correct me if i’m wrong.
He has torn labrum that could lead to a shoulder dislocation if aggravated more. He’s been wearing a harness that probably limits the discomfort and his range of motion of the shoulder.
I think it’s the same injury Farve had and he had it repaired and Favre is having his best season of his career!
Yeah he'll be fine...
Problem right now is he has to play with it for the remainder of the season..Before he has a chance at letting it heal..and hopefully that’ll be February.
Your right
Tuck had this injury in college one season, it’s a one year deal the problem is it needs rest and he’s just not getting any. He’ll be fine he just needs to do some wind sprints in the offseason instead of bicep curls.
Its a 2009 Flozell fat ass problem
The ass tripped tuck after he had him long beat
Single cover the real Steve Smith at your own peril
Bluecifer..
I agree with about everything you have to say here..Good points..I do however disagree about Coughlin, but I am not entirely letting him off the hook…He was instrumental in getting his players buy-in in 2007..but I think he needs to crank up a little more of his old coaching style at this point..His coaching staff is letting him down, so we shouldn’t be surprised to see alot of taking one last walk thru the exit door after the season is over, regardless if they pull something off in the next 5 games..and Tuck can’t play in the middle, he’ll be on IR in one game if they try that..Maybe stick Osi in there so he learns how to defend against the run and let Kiwi play end, he did a good job last year replacing Osi..All I know is we are at ‘critical mass’ here,,Something needs to be done to get the fire lit.
good point about tuck
but bobbiblue, the giants didn’t suddenly come alive in ‘07 because of Coughlin’s coaching, you don’t need players to buy in, they came alive because spag’s scheme started to work really well, eli got some confidence, and they suddenly realized what was possible. Somebody stand up for Coughlin, I love the guy, but it’s not like he can jump in and call the d or the o, is his pep talk that good? I mean, I’m glad he’s not mangini, but is that a good enough reason to let his overly conservative approach waste another season? Conservative only works when things are already working. Somebody please point out some genius that coughlin’s directly responsible for. No, a talented team winning games against lesser talent isn’t proof of a great coach, turning around a season in serious trouble is, take a look at John Fox.
Well Bluecifer
If you recall, he backed off and formed a team leadership counsel amoung the players and they really responded well to that approach..He would meet daily with them and those players would then convey the message to the team..He was suffering from a really bad communication problem..So by forming that counsel he in effect straightened that issue out..and they all liked it, hence they exceled on the field as a result…that was what I was attempting to point out…In a post Super Bowl interview, he and Strahan and company talked at length about how much of a huge positive impact that had on the whole team.
sounds like
he basically took himself out of the equation. You know what I mean, where was he when shit imploded last year? allowing Gilbride to make a bunch of boneheaded calls in the eagles game. Where was he when halfway through the second game of the tough part of our schedule it became obvious that C.C. brown can’t play safety, and Sheridan is in way over his head? Or Thursday, when our midget receivers were blanket covered? That might’ve been a good time for Barden huh? Or for the last year while it got more and more obvious that Clark and Pierce aren’t athletic enough to do the job? He’s unresponsive, doesn’t change anything, if things are great that’s a good thing, when things are bad, it’s terrible.
I agree with everything you just said..
TC needs to get into some coaches and player faces by ratcheting up his old coaching style and ripping into them..We haven’t seen much of that..except he was a wild man on Thursday..I would like to see him throw his headset off and run over to get into Sheridan and Gilbride’s pie-holes..Heck Parcells used to do that..We don’t see what goes on behind closed doors, but one would hope that is happening..the coaches and players both need a big humungous kick in their butts…Like I said yesterday..I am sick and tired of listening to these guy’s bullshit us..It is the same horseshit after every loss..“Oh we just need to tweak this, or tweak that”..“We need to play better”..“We are going be okay”…on and on..I say NO KIDDING?…WHEN?. the same ’ol bull..every week.
man, i wish they would even say that we need to CHANGE anything
instead it’s “we need to try harder”. I’m relatively certain that the giants collapse is not due to a lack of effort on the part of the players. Like they need motivational speeches to want to not look bad in front of millions.
Nothing wrong with Lombardi's eyesight
It doesn’t take a genius to see that the NFL is a passer’s paradise….unfortunately the Giants’ coaching staff didn’t get the memo…..with the new rules protecting QBs and receivers, why aren’t the Giants throwing more (and not just because they are behind)
The defense needs to put much more pressure on the QBs…that’s the name of the game – what don’t they get, here…?
What?
They threw 40 times Thursday night. Most of the complaints have been too much passing and not enough running. Their passing attempts are up this year and rushing attempts are down. So, you are off-base there. The Giants are passing, and passing, and passing. And not using Brandon Jacobs, who is their best offensive player.
As for pressure, they are trying. In a zillion different ways they are trying. They just don’t have anyone who is actually getting home. That is on the players.
by Ed Valentine on Nov 28, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Ed..
Yes they threw 40 times..but the majority were throw-aways..and your obviously right about Jacobs, but he is definitely not playing his style of game..and I wouldn’t be too quick to give up on Ware..his fumble was costly, but we need to give the kid a chance..He is a runner that can bounce it outside..Jacobs needs to play his bettering ram game..His holes will open up, but only after he beats the defense down…and also I agree that our Pass/Run ratio is totally unbalanced this year..and now is the time of year to be running more than passing.
The big problem with the Broncos..
Is that Eli didn’t even have time to spike the darn ball..Nobody was open, and he was running for his life all night..They did an outstanding job of completely shutting us down on offense…When you look back at that game our defense was bad but they only gave up 26 points..Our offense should be able to score more than 6 lousy points..Therefore I give major credit to the Broncos defense…Those guys killed us out there.
Giants
There’s stillness in the wind, calm before the storm. An uneasy silence, waiting for an explosion that will change the way to happiness. It’s the only way.
Agree
A lot of problems, but biggest and the one that has to be resolved before any of the others, are the problems with the D and O lines.
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