'Kudos & Wet Willies:' Finally, Giants have a happy Monday
by Ed Valentine on Nov 23, 2009 6:00 AM EST
in Kudos & Wet Willies
Email
PrintIt often wasn't pretty. It definitely wasn't perfect. But, Sunday's 34-31 overtime victory over the Atlanta Falcons was Big Blue's first 'W' in 42 days. 'Kudos' for that. The Giants are 6-4, and have assured themselves that they will continue to be a serious player in the playoff race.
For now, that's all that matters. Read on for this week's 'Kudos & Wet Willies.'
Kudos to ...
- Eli Manning: I can't believe this was Manning's first 300-yard passing game at Giants Stadium. But, whatever. It came at a great time. I didn't feel so good about Eli early when he threw that interception and was doing a lot of running for his life. Manning, though, settled in and threw the ball beautifully much of the game. He went 25-for-39 for a career-high 384 yards with three touchdowns (a 111.5 QB rating). Many of those throws were perfectly placed balls squeezed into small spaces. In truth, it is as well as I can remember seeing Eli throw the ball.
- MarioSmithHakeemManninghamSteveNicks: Yeah, that's a mess to read -- and to say. I am lumping all three young wide receivers in together, though, because the were all outstanding. And they have become a three-headed monster that teams around the NFL are going to have to deal with for a loooong time. So, yeah, forget all that stuff about the Giants not having any playmakers at the receiver position. They have plenty. Mario Manningham was tremendous, with six catches for 126 yards, including a beautiful 29-yarder in overtime to set up the game-winning field goal. Steve Smith (4 catches, 79 yards) was his usual reliable self AND busted loose for a 51-yard completion -- the missing link in his ascension to stardom. Hakeem Nicks (5 catches, 65 yards) is an absolute stud, who runs nice routes and has terrific hands.
- Kevin Boss: We have been waiting ... and waiting .... and waiting for the Bossman to become a primary target in the passing game. Well, Sunday that day arrived. Boss was the answer in the Green Zone, with two touchdown catches. He finished with five catches for a career-best 76 yards, as well. I hope we continue to see more of that.
- Michael Boley: You know this game meant a lot to Boley, who left the Falcons last season after unceremoniously being removed from the starting lineup. Sunday Boley showed the Falcons what they gave up, playing his best game as a Giant. In fact, maybe the best game by a Giants outside linebacker in a long time. He finished with 13 tackles and a sack. It also looked to me like Boley was filling some of that emtional leadership void left by the injury to Antonio Pierce.
- OsiTuckJustinUmenyiora: Like with the wide receivers, I am lumping the two bookends of the Giants defensive line together. Tuck had a huge game with four tackles, a sack, a fumble recovery and a near interception the one time he dropped into pass coverage. Umenyiora had just one tackle and a fumble recovery, but I thought he was active and made Atlanta quarterback Matt Ryan uncomfortable a number of times.
- Corey Webster: Webster was all over Roddy White most of the game. He had the kind of game this week we had hoped he would have two weeks ago against San Diego's Vincent Jackson. CW ended up with five -- yes, five -- passes defensed. What I can't figure out is why the Falcons kept testing him.
- Aaron Rouse: Nine tackles, including one huge run stop for a loss, and a pass defensed. A debatable penalty for a late hit, sure, but I thought Rouse played well. To this point, he has been a huge upgrade over 'Bad, Bad C.C. Brown.'
- Chase Blackburn: Once again proved his value by playing very well in place of Pierce. It's just one game, but so far, so good.
- Barry Cofield: It's a good thing Cofield (5 tackles) played probably his best game of the season. The other defensive tackles did pretty much nothing.
- Madison Hedgecock: The guy caught a touchdown pass. Shoot, when a fullback gets one of those you have to give him something. A 'Kudos' is the best I can do.
Wet Willies to ...
- Defensive tackles not named Cofield: I thought Chris Canty, Rocky Bernard and Fred Robbins were pretty much invisible. Bernard and Robbins might be in the process of playing themselves into different uniforms next season.
- Bruce Johnson: The rookie cornerback has been pretty good all season. He got picked on time and time again Sunday, though. On top of that, he had a silly holding penalty that helped Atlanta score a third-quarter touchdown.
- The Giants offensive line: I think we have to face the reality that this unit is not the dominant group we watched the past couple of seasons. The names are the same, but the results aren't. They eventually got the pass protection straightened out and Manning was sacked only once, but he spent much of the first half running for his life. And the run-blocking was very sporadic, which shows in the 26-carry, 88-yard (3.4 yards per carry) day the running backs had. The inability to run-block in the Green Zone is still a huge problem. It looks like General Manager Jerry Reese needs to start thinking about some changes to this group for 2010.
Kwillies to ...
- Lawrence Tynes: Nailed the game-winner. As he always seems to, he made life harder on the Giants than it had to. But, in the end he got the job done.
One more thing
235 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Any theories on O line decline?
Maybe that they’ve always been a finesse group and the Ds have caught up with their moves? Aging has to be part of it as well. Loading the box against a group of non earth movers makes it tougher, too.
THey've been playing together
about 6 years. THat’s a lot. Not a single one of them has misses more than a few games in that span too.
I remember the days where TIki or Jacobs is running up field then you got Diehl or Seubert right on his tail running up field.
What happened to that?
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 6:33 AM EST up reply actions
Tho I do refute that a bit too...
I think ^that is reason #2 or 3 they’ve been struggling—-I don;‘t think they’re shot.
I think it has more to do with not being in a rhythm.
How many times did Eli throw…39 times?
That’s a lot and these guys may not be in rhythm when the run is called. They’re probably just shooting themselves in the foot in the running game.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 6:35 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Not shot, but struggling. Based on the season so far though, it doesn’t look like they’ll reach the heights they once attained. They’re still good, sometimes very good. Say what you will about the failure of the rest of the team to adjust during a game, that label can’t be attached to the O line.
Rhythm? Shooting self in the foot? The only way to overcome that is too keep running to establish a rhythm, to halt foot shooting. With the D giving up all the points it does, that strategy would have gotten us nowhere yesterday.
As you already said, the Giants have been transformed into a passing team. The Giants? A passing team? We haven’t seen that since Allie Sherman coached.
They seemed to have a game plan
much like the Dallas game in week 2.
I loved that game plan. I really don’t have much problem with Eli airing it out. Also, the way he’s throwing the ball, I have a hard time believing the wind’s gonna really hurt him, the only wounded duck I saw was the INT and that was just a bad throw and decision with someone in his face like that.
Yea, I think they are shooting themselves in the foot, in the running game, by not establishing it.
I 100% believe Jacobs is hurt….really not a far fetched idea. I think the way they are limiting him is good. Bradshaw I now is hurt too.
I’d like to see more Danny Ware. I’ve been on this bandwagon since the start of the season, but we ran out of gas when he got hurt on play one of 2009.
I’ve seen him block well, I’ve seen him run hard and fast.
I just think he needs to see the ball more.
I’d even go to the extreme of Danny Ware starting on Thurdsay, getting 20 carries and a few passes his way too.
IT WORKED WITH DERRICK WARD IN 2007!!!!!
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 7:13 AM EST up reply actions
I'm all for
giving Ward twenty carries. I’d like Gartrell to get more carries as well. The # 1 and 2 guys are hurt and can’t do what’s expected of them.
Oh No!
FreeBradshaw’s gonna have to change his name to Ware4Starter.
Some may have given up on the Giants this season, but they WILL make the playoffs.
by ChuckyofNorris on Nov 24, 2009 4:43 AM EST up reply actions
Decline
I don’t think it’s been six years. This is Diehl’s third year at tackle, so this line has been together three seasons. I think McKenzie is slowing down. Seubert has not played well, and it is entirely possible he is still bothered by the shoulder injury he had in training camp.
by Ed Valentine on Nov 23, 2009 7:15 AM EST up reply actions
Diehl hasn't missed a game has he?
Snee neither. THis is Diehl’s 6th season and Snee’s 5th. Those 2 are the youngest and they both really haven’t missed any time.
O’Hara is 33, Seubert only missed time with that broken leg. McKenzie’s never really missed much time either in his career.
I do agree, Seubert and McKenzie seem to be the biggest culprits (and both can be attributed to injuries.
I’m not sure on the decline thing, I kinda doubt it but these guys have been playing a while and it could be a part of it.
I do think the #1 reason they aren’t running well is cuz they aren’t focusing on it enough (again..39 passes…not complaining about that, I’m just saying that’s why they aren’t in rhythm).
Its also the injury to AB, Jacobs apparently too.
It seems the answer to the RZ riddle may just be Kevin Boss (who knew????).
Maybe the cure to the running game ‘woes’ is Derrick Ward Danny Ware?
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 7:28 AM EST up reply actions
Mixed emotions
on the average running game. I agree the Giants with the 3 WRs they possess there’s going to be a bigger focus on the passing game.
Where my confusion lies is with a better passing game shouldn’t that open up the running game? Defenses can’t put 8 players in the box against our offense.
I think teams will until
Eli and the O do what they did yesterday consistanley. Lets be honest yesterday was only the second game this year teams loaded up for the run and Eli beat them. Arizona did the same thing and Eli and the young WR’s did not respond. I think it will come with time and teams still don’t respect Eli nor do they give Manningham, Smith, and Nicks the same respect they gave Plaxico, Tommer & Shockey.
Philly will keep doing the same thing until they loose a game against us becaue Nicks or Manningham catch 7 or 8 for 150 and 3 TD’s apience.
I think consistancy will be the key to getting teams out of that defense, thats why I think Eli forces deep throws sometimes because he knows if he can hit a few teams will eventually have to back off making his life easier.
Yea this O-Line has been together since 07
before that it was Pettigout and McKenzie arrived in 05 while Seubert missed much of 03 and 04 with a serious leg injury.
THIS O-LIne...
McKenzie didn’t miss much time with the Jets
Snee’s started 5 years straight and in his 6th season. Diehl started from a rook in 03 as LG…now in his 7th season and 3rd
O"Hara started a lot with Cleveleland too.
So yea, there’s a lot of wear on this unit.
Even as a unit as a whole from 2007…they’ve played longer together than anyone in the league.
The youngest one s on the line have started their entire careers and aside from Seubert..the other guys have been starters for a while.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 7:36 AM EST up reply actions
Like some other poster said rythm
is a big factor for an o-line. I also think McKenzie is progressivley getting worse(hence the Beaty pick) and Seubert and even O’Hara are not playing as well, it seems as if they are struggling to pick up the blitz up the middle and big time d-tackles are getting a lot of penetration up the gut on those guys. Also Diehl stuggles a bit in pass protection, he always has since LT is not is natral position but it’s more noticable when the rest of the group is struggling. I mentioned this last night but I think the Giants have good backs that can take advantage of big holes but when the blocking is not overwhelming they will struggle because they are not great backs just good ones. Look at Derrick Ward, he’s not having nearly the success he had in Tampa that he had in NY. Kinda like the Broncos in the late 90’s early 2000’s. Yea sure guys like Orlandis Gary and Mike Anderson rushed for 1,000 yards but it was more a product of the line than the individual efforts of the backs. When Terrel Davis was in there they were dominate because he was a great back and had great blocking. Great backs make the o-line look better and the Giants are not getting great efforts from the backs.
PS
Hedgecock is tough to bring down. I wonder how he’d do on short yardage situations.
Tried that last year
and it didn’t work. Although, I’m all for giving the fullback a couple of carries just to keep the defense honest.
by Ed Valentine on Nov 23, 2009 9:49 AM EST up reply actions
I do not want to see him with the ball
You are both right, he is a beast, but i do not want to see the offense in a goal line situation run through our fullback who is not as fast or big as our #1 RB and may not be comfortable with the ball in his hands. I like Hedgecock, but I am not a fan of seeing him with the ball in either run or pass situations.
We have the right personnel to (eli, boss, smith, jacobs, nicks, manningham, bradshaw) to run any scenario at the goal line we want, I think kit is more the scheming now that is causing issues (i.e. predictability). There is enough variance in those 6 or 7 skill players to provide variability that we don’t need to but the ball in Hedgecocks hands.
by losangelesmets on Nov 23, 2009 9:50 AM EST up reply actions
I say we give the ball to Boss in short yardage situations!
The guys a beast! it seems like had can do whatever is asked of him. Maybe put him at D-Tackle late in the game to rush the QB. LOL!
It would be nice to see a play worked in their for Beckum out of the H-back position...
..for a little change of pace to keep the defense guessing
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 23, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
Especially if you catch the D in a blitz
I can envision a singleback formation with Jacobs, Ham and Smith the WO’s and Boss as the TE with Beckum working off of Boss’ hip. Creating plays that have Boss and Smith running certain routes (thus creating natural picks) and freeing up Beckum in a hot zone!
Maybe so
But, I am just glad to see them looking for Boss the past couple of weeks, both in and out of the Green Zone.
by Ed Valentine on Nov 23, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Boss can be a top notch
TE if properly used. The guy is not flashy, but he has great hands and is tough as nails. Bossman is a weapon that should be used. Good to see plays going to the Boss.
the Giants were definitely
hurting themselves by not using Boss more.
I mean I think you gotta factor in he had a pretty bad ankle sprain from that Saints (or was it Oakland???) game, so that could’ve been why they haven’t used him more this season?
Its kind of no excuse. Boss has seemingly always had good hands, ran good routes and well…he’s always been 6"7 and can jump (tho…he has gotten BIG lately..he seems like he’s about 270lbs).
WHY it took them so long to focus on using Boss..I don’t know.
I think he can be better than Shockey. He’s a bigger target and has much better hands.
I think he can be the Giants poor man version of Jason Witten..and that might be selling Boss’ talent a little short.
We gotta use this guy more.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
I think it was the KC game
It was right before the half with under 30 seconds when it happened. The Giants had no TO’s and if there was going to be an injury TO, there would’ve been a 10 second runoff. He moreless hobbled to line up and Eli got the spike in to stop the clock. Something like that?!
But with Boss’ coming out party against Atl., thats just another dimension for opposing D’s to HAVE TO, focus on. If not, pick your poison!
I just think that using Boss
is Smart and will open up so much more in our offense. And off the subject of Boss, let me say that I love Nicks. The kids is a stud and going to be a star for a long time, but he has to keep that ball closer to his body. We all know about the big hands, but you cannot expose the football like he did yesterday. He could have set himself up for a huge wet willie.
yea that would've sucked...
I’m sure we would have seen Coughlin erupt like he did at Kiwi against Vince Young a few years ago.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
It went unnoticed
Beckum has seen little playing time with no receptions since the Eagles game. Eli received all the blame on that opening drive INT by Samuels of the Eagles. Most of the blame for that INT should be on Beckum. Go back and watch the replay of that play. Watch how long it took Beckum out of his cut. He shuffled his feet. So many passes on the NFL are timing passes. That play was one of them. Eli expected Beckum to be in position.
+ 1
I called that out when it happened.
Homer: Aw, twenty dollars! I wanted a peanut!
Homer's Brain: Twenty dollars can buy many peanuts!
Homer: Explain how!
Homer's Brain: Money can be exchanged for goods and services!
Homer: Woo-hoo!
by bigbluethruandthru on Nov 23, 2009 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
I think this is
why we haven’t seen Becks at all in the past 2 games….
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 24, 2009 8:31 AM EST up reply actions
Hedgecock's TD was a nice call though
Given our RZ woes, it was the unpredictable nature of the call, that made it a success. Even though i despise him being utilized in a more traditional base set with the personnel we have, i really don’t mind using him inside the 10. He’s more apt to be overlooked by the defense, even in goal-line packages, and it showed.
Great point
It was an excellent call, play action and throw to the FB in the flat, it seems like teams do that to us all of the time. Give KG credit very good call, he called a good game yesterday for the most part.
Good thing Hedgecock didn't do that silly "rowing to Honolulu" dance he did last time he scored a TD
There won’t be any rowing to Honolulu going on this February!!!
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 23, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
More like rowing to Bayonne
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers
Big Blue View: Unofficial New York Giants blog
by Jim Schmiedeberg on Nov 23, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
Ed's on the record
as wanting to see an occasional two RB set I believe. I’d like to see it a few times myself
What can I say? Particularly on O...
…the guys stepped up and made big plays
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 23, 2009 6:30 AM EST reply actions
Agree with you Ed
This is a step in the right direction by winning a game but some issues need to be resolved such as the defence giving up 18,12 and then 12 play drives in the second half.
I think we should win on Thursday and then the pressure starts to crank up.
We do now have a short passing game as the combo of Smith, Manningham, Nicks and Boss is in the upper half of groups in the league – maybe even top ten – which bodes well when the bad weather sets in.
The key games could be how the match ups against CAR and MIN – will Fox be on the verge of being sacked by CAR and if so how will the team respond and will the Vikes rest Favre when we play them?
by G Fan in England on Nov 23, 2009 6:34 AM EST reply actions
A win is a win:
but anytime you allow 30 some points to the opponents, the team is skating on thin ice.
I can’t help but think the last few games coaches on the other teams watched more films than
our coaches. Our defensive weaknesses were exploited again and again.
Great write up Ed
Your analysis is spot on. I’m enjoying the win because I feel we will clean up what we saw in the fourth quarter. Gaining confidence can’t be underestimated and we got some of that back yesterday.
Gotta start somewhere
Not perfect, but the Giants got a win. That, of course, is better than a loss and it means they still have meaningful games to play this season. Hopefully, the defense continues to get better.
by Ed Valentine on Nov 23, 2009 7:17 AM EST up reply actions
I agree too
Great write up, and i 100% agree with the uncatergorized kicking game and the 4th quarter D. Tynes makes the earlier miss, then theres no need for OT! Regardless though, it’s still no excuse for allowing a team 14 points in the 4th with the game on the line. Just like the SD game, until the D can seal the deal with more plays in the 4th, i can’t pretend to be comfortable with them.
But, i will like to add a Wet Willie though. Too many penalties! 4 of these lead to 1st downs and if your trying to make a stand, these will ultimately come back to haunt you!
OL in offseason
McKenzie plays older than he is. Seubert is a solid B player. Diehl should slide over to one of those slots (McKenzie) and Beatty should get a shot to start at LT.
And the 2010 draft should improve on the depth.
After the season is over mind you.
I'd be leery about moving Beatty to LT now.
I’’d just ease him into McKenzie’s spot this season and let him have a crack at LT in training camp.
All of the o-linemen including McKenzie
are signed through next year so I don’t think we’ll be seeing many changes for next year.
I agree with blue gonz, putting Beaty at LT right now be baptisim by fire I’d let work at the right side before doing that.
Agreed
MSP was talking about this offseason, not now.
by potroast on Nov 23, 2009 10:17 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
My mistake.
I would like to see him get some game experience this year, giving one of the other guys a rest for a down or two a couple of times a game. He’s the only guy we have with potential to be a snowplow type OL
Just think OL needs to get younger
and deeper. GMen have been lucky with injuries.
I love the idea of Seubert being a C/G back up in 2010. Or Beatty at one tackle and Diehl at another. If Whimper and Koets don’t have it then draft people who do.
GMen so seem to hold on to people for depth who have no real upside – or the GMen don’t treat them like they do. Wilkersen, Booth, Koets, Whimper, Darcy Johnson. Depth should be a grooming ground for future starters whenever possible.
2010
I’d like to see Beatty at RT and we could potentially draft a good OG or OT in the 2nd or 3rd round that will take over Diehl’s spot allowing him to move to LG or having the new guy himself at LG
by mclaren_is_the_best on Nov 23, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
I think it depends on how we (or the Giants prioritize) the prospects or FA's?
IMO, now is the time to start thinking about the future of this OL. Last year was a good start with Beatty. Our other reserves at this point probably do not project to be no better than stop-gap fill-ins with really no upside. Whether it’s a RT prospect with LT suitable grades or an interior lineman with versatility to play all, something has to be addressed.
Overall, even though the Giants have had a penchant for veteran FA OL and LB’s, a youth infusion from the draft should be considered. I believe it all depends on the FA market or the draft prospects entirely, that may depend on which way they want to go!
Refs deserve a wet willie
for the two late hit calls. The first one was debatable, but the second call was downright atrocious. Also, there was a LOT of holding going on in the middle of the Atlanat O-Line yesterday, with Cofield being a victim more than once. Hell, they could not even flip a coin right on the first try… though that may have worked in the Giants favour, so I guess I can not get on them for that.
We’ve been on the bad end of some horrendous penalties this season. It’s an absolute disgrace! The call against Rouse was a joke. The runners first foot just touched. It was bang bang.
Maybe so
But, the way the NFL is called now you have to be very, very aware of when a guy is heading out of bounds. When he is going out, just pin him there and let him go out. That said, it could easily have been a no-call.
by Ed Valentine on Nov 23, 2009 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
I say it's a touchy call Ed,
You never know if a runner is going to hit that edge and somehow turn it up field like Bjake did on his 1st or 2nd carry. I thought Jake was headed out of bounds but he got the big frame around and picked up about 11 or 12 yards on the play. Also a defensive player’s momentum has to come into play a little also.
If a receiver has to maintain possession when he falls out of bounds...
Then why shouldn’t a runner be responsible for protecting himself
with one foot still in the field of play while “going out of bounds”???
Looking ahead to Denver already...
…as this is a short week, should we be encouraged or concerned by the fact that the Broncos got rolled at home 32-3 by the Chargers yesterday? Their quarterback situation right now makes this team less of threat than they were prior to Orton’s injury, but there’s still a lot of talent on their offense. Moreno could run all over us if they execute their zone blocking scheme well and our guys up front get no push or shed their blocks.
On O, we will need our running game back in peak form if we are to have any success against the Broncos. The shots that were available down the field against the Falcons aren’t not likely to be there against Bailey and Dawkins, the latter of which has historically had our number. Hopefully BJ’s leg is OK, but if he is not near 100% we should see more of Danny Ware.
Like Eli said, in a short week like this, a lot of it will come down to which team is better prepared. Bring on the turkey-induced seratonin hangover, I’m ready for this game!
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 23, 2009 7:56 AM EST reply actions
This is a "big test" for the Giants
Moreno and Denver’s running game could be potent, but Chris Simms is like his father throwing lefthanded.
We need to man up against the pass, but stack the box for the run (and no over-pursuing….looking at you MICHAEL JOHNSON….)
Their defense is decent, they can get pressure with DOOMervil, but I honestly don’t think the offense will be a problem as long as Eli’s OK.
For real, the offense even if its just a passing attack, if we’re gonna use these quick hit passes early on and then open it up as the game goes along…which we did for the most part yesterday..I’m OK with the pass first. Especially now that Eli is 100%
Tho, I agree on Danny Ware. I think even if Jake can play…we need to use Ware a whole lot more.
We gotta realize that ATL’s offense is pretty potent when they click like they did at the end of the game yesterday (they WERE fighting for their playoff lives…).
Denver’s offense is no where near that good
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 8:06 AM EST up reply actions
If Chris Simms were like his father
the Giants would have no chance Thursday night luckley he’s not.
This game is a much better matchup for the Giants because Denver is struggling on O
My biggest concern is the D-Line sucking wind late in this game because of the short week and mile-high altitude.
The O should move the ball the big test will be when they get in the Red Zone. If the Giants score TD’s they have a great shot at winning if we kick FG’s and play a close defensive game I don’t think the D will be able to make any plays late when it counts to stop Denver.
I never knew Phil was a lefty?
considering I know he’s not…that’s why I said if Phill threw left-handed…that’s what Chris looks like right now.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 8:42 AM EST up reply actions
Oh I'm sorry
I thought you were saying Chris Simms stinks like his dad the only difference is he’s lefty, so we don’t have to worry about him. I was just defending Phill saying the Giants are lucky they are playing Chris and not a QB as good as Phill becasue they would bee in trouble if they were. Sorry for the mix up
Unfortunately, Chris Simms got pulled..
Orton came back in..I have a strong allegiance to the Simms and hope that kid gets a chance to play again somewhere…His career somewhat shadows his Fathers career..It took along time before Phil got his chance and he succeeded..He even had to sit behind Brunner (puke, gag!!)..Chris Simms is a good QB..His arm is stronger than his Dad’s..Tampa screwed him, they should have stuck with him..They wouldn’t be 1-9 if they did..Of course they have that nit-wit coach who after every loss says: “That’s how we want to play..just like them”..Can you imagine the comments our site would generate if we had a head coach like that nut???..We’d bring the internet down..
Don't know how much you want to take this to the bank but...
Big boy was just on brandon tierney’s ESPN radio show saying his knee is fine, he could’ve came back in the game yesterday, and he’ll be ready for thursday. so take that as you’d like…
Broncos Fan Here
for what it’s worth, Orton engaged in full participation Monday, to which i reply. THANKS! Chris Simms is nothing like his father who you G-Men fans adored. Chris shames the family name. It would be like Peyton Manning having a son that plays like JaMarcus Russell.
Brad James
by the Bradfather on Nov 23, 2009 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sorry but when the defense gives up 31 points
and blows a two TD lead with 8 mins left to a team with their 3rd string running back and a struggleing second year QB that has played poorley in his last 3 or 4 starts 7 guys from the D do not deserve kudos. That was a poor team defensive effort yesterday with a few standout individual plays, (Tuck’s sack and forced fumble come to mind) but if ATL wins the OT toss and scores the defense gets crucified today.
I do think it’s unfair to scapegoat every defesive problem on Sheridan, I believe execution has more to do with their issues but the foruth quarter collapses, lack of improvement from week to week, and overall red-zone suckiness are the same things we saw when Jonny Lynn took over for Fox with the same exact players, and even in the Tim Lewis era.
Injuries are no longer an excuse, the Eagles have a ton and even though the Bears drove the field a lot last night the Eagles D held them to FG’s which is what a good D does, clamp down in the redzone and give your team a chance, letting teams walk right into the endzone on you in the redzone has been a problem for the Giants all year and it has not gotten any better in fact it seems as if it’s getting worse, and the fact it’s not improving speaks to coaching.
did you watch the Eagles-Bears game?????
The Eagles “holding” the Bears to FG’s is FAAAAAAR from what I’d call it.
If Eli or McNabb was playing for the Bears, they had Hester and Olsen wide open for a TD on one of those drives and more than a few other times Cutler over threw an open WR down field.
The Eagles didn’t hold the Bears…the Bears held the Bears.
The Eagles injuries were extremely obvious on the defensive side of the ball. If Cutler wasn’t doing his best Jamarcus Russel impersonation (non-vs. Eagles version)……the Bears win by 3 TD’s that game.
Injuries are no longer an excuse for the Giants ….yea.
But you also gotta realize; Boley, Canty and Ross have barely played AT ALL this year. All 3 had no preseason to get into shape a bit. It was Ross’ first game, Canty’s 3rd and Boley’s 4th. Boley’s played well but its gonna take time for the other 2.
I still think the D played better yesterday. Too many blitzes hurt them (why they’re doing so many..I don’t know).
That could’ve been helped in the 4th if the O sustained a few drives. That’s where the running game or lack thereof…hurt the Giants yesterday.
Yes..a good D stops the Falcons…but also a team with a working running game keeps the defense off the field.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 8:48 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah he was awful..and after the game..
It looked as though him and McNabb should have rented a prison cell together.
Yea I watched the game
The Olsen, Hester wide open TD was on the same drive so it would have only counted for one TD, the eagles D clamped down every other time and some of those bad Cutler throws were the result of pressure by the Eagles. Something the Giants forget to do in the fourth quarter.
You also dismissed the Eagles D got an interception on the last drive of the game for the Bears which clinched the game. They made a play plain and simple something the Giants have not done in those spots. You could blame Cuter but you can’t argue with the results. Do you think the Giants make that stand there? You can’t tell me from what you’ve seen this season they do and I don’t care who was playing QB Ryan’s been struggling almost as bad as Cutler in recent weeks and got better against the Giants D. I have a feeling if Cutler faced the Giants D he would get back on track too. Romo sucked against the Giants in week 2 and they still marched down the field late to get a go-ahead TD, the only problem was he left too much time for Eli. It looked like the Giants might do it against SD when Rivers throws a horrible pass that TT picks but sure enough Rivers gets another shot and looks like he’s doing a 7 on 7 drill down the field.
You can’t say the D is improving when they are still crumbling in the fourth quarter like they have all year. Eli and a lucky coin toss are the difference from these team being 6-4 instead of 4-6 and out of the playoff hunt.
“Yes..a good D stops the Falcons…but also a team with a working running game keeps the defense off the field.”
The ofense scored 31 points! I don’t care how they did it I’ll sign up for that every week if your Defense can’t win a game when you score 31 points there are serious issues on the defesnsive side of the ball. That argument would hold water if it was a defensive low-scoring game that the giants lost 16-13 becasue the O kept going 3 and out late in the game but not when you score 31. Atlanta scored on all of their second half possesions! They took the open kickoff and jammed it down the Giants throat. It was an awful defensive performance blaming the lack of a running game is no excuse for it. Philly could not run the ball for a first down on that last sereies last night and the Eagles won.
A win is a win is a win
As a Giants fan I’m happy for the win. It was desperately needed. That being said I didn’t come away from that game feeling great about the performance of our defense. We gave up too many points. Falcon receivers were running free. We allowed too many 3rd and long conversions. Even on a 3rd and 13 we allow 12 yards then Atlanta converts on 4th and 1.
As Landeta mentioned we didn’t stop them at all in the 2nd half. After the Giants scored late in the first half it was important for the defense to make a stand in Atlanta’s opening drive. They didn’t.
We can say what we want about injuries. I dislike using injuries as an excuse. All teams have injuries. The one injury that hurts most is the loss of KP. Let’s compare the loss of KP to that of the Steelers and Colts. Both defenses lose a lot with the loss of Troy P and Bob Sanders. I think we’re finding the safety is the QB of the secondary. Without KP in the lineup far too many times our d-backs look lost.
Philly's D is just as much a sieve
The Giants beat the Cowboys in basically the same game.
The Eagles won cuz Cutler was horrible. Those RZ stops were not the only area that Cutler was horrible.
You can’t say the D is improving when they are still crumbling in the fourth quarter like they have all year. Eli and a lucky coin toss are the difference from these team being 6-4 instead of 4-6 and out of the playoff hunt.
Are they really ‘crumbling’? are we really "lucky to be 6-4? I think with some luck we could’ve been 8-2.
The defense played good until the 4th Q. Before that they let up 2 TD drives where they were horrible…but the rest was good.
What’s the problem in the 4th? I don’t know. Could be conditioning from a bunch of guys who haven’t played a lot this year or practiced in the preseason.
….also, they could be tired cuz they’re on the field too much IN THE FOURTH.
The running game, and keeping possession in the 4th specifically, would help keep the D off the field.
The 2 TD’s in the 4th were the last 2 drives for the Falcons. The D was on the field a lot in the 4th,
The kickoff coverage is horrendous too. Spotting them the 40 does not help, especially out of the gate in the 2nd half.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
I guesss were not going to agree on this one
but the D is on the field in the fourth quarter a lot because they keep giving up Third and long. Part of their job is to stop the other team on third and long the lack of a running game has nothing to do with that.
Yes they are crumbling, if what I saw yesterday was not crumbling in the fourth quarter then I don’t know what is. Allowing SD to drive the field for a TD without getting a hand on Rivers or even putting them in a third down situation is crumbling.
Ok Maybe were not lucky to be 6-4 becasue we have a good QB but my point is the D has not done much to contirbute in wins against good teams, we can’t rely on Eli and the passing attack in the cold windy meadowlands in December, we have to win with Defense and the running game and I have no confidence that the defense can do it.
Philly’s D is not great and has struggled but it has not been as bad as the Giants D and I bring them up because we are competing with them for a playoff spot.
Tuck, Osi, Kiwi, Robbins, Cofield, Webster, Johnson, Blackburn, Clark, Thomas have had full training camps and should be contintioned enough to compete in the fourth quarter of these games.
And for all Giant fans, the Cardinals kicked our buts, SD we could have won, but that was a bad effort against ARZ Hakeem Nicks lucky TD made it look better than it was. We were not that close in that game.
I agree about the running game it’s a major issue that is hurting this team and what it does as is kickoffs and coverage.
3rd and long
When was the last time the giants didn’t give up a third and long? I’m not just talking this year, last year too, it seemed we gave up a lot of them. We want to stay 3rd and mid, and usually we stop them
The Cowboys are the France of the NFL
-thwalls
On 3rd down, throw it to Smith.
3rd and short is a big problem too.
I thought that was a bigger problem. The didn’t have all that many 3rd and longs…and the ones they had were 4 down situations anyway.
Short Yardage defense, like the goal-line defense…is atrocious.
I don’t know if its small DT’s (really????) lack of toughness with the LB’s and D-Line?
I dunno…but the short yardage…on both sides, has been real soft.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
That's why I said 3rd and mid
I think its because our DT are underacheiving. That’s why Snelling was able to go right up the middle for a TD twice. The DTs aren’t getting a push, and that makes it easier to convert.
Same reason our RBs can’t convert our 3rd and short. Our OL isn’t getting a push, or is being pushed back. Its better imo that we go for short 3rd downs through the pass until opposing teams stop clogging the middle and respect the pass. Than we can go back to running through the tackles
The Cowboys are the France of the NFL
-thwalls
On 3rd down, throw it to Smith.
4-6 vs. 8-2
I think you’re both right. With better luck we’d be 8-2, with worse luck 4-6. 6-4 splits the difference, and statistically is the most likely outcome. But locking down in the fourth quarter would take a lot of the chance out of the equation.
This defense will be our downfall
It is not the players though, it’s the coaching, plain and simple. Spags had pretty much the same group flying all over the field and putting the fear of God into opposing offenses when he was here. There is no excuse for a defense with the level of talent the Giants have performing this poorly. Hate to say it, but this team will need to rely on Eli and the offense just to make the playoffs. Once they get there, they won’t be there long with a defense that gives us stinker games like we have had of late. Yes, we won the game yesterday, but do you really think that would have happened if the Giants had lost the coin toss? To me, there is not a lot here to celebrate here. There are some really tough games coming up.
Not exactly
Spags was the DC when the D sucked at the end of last year with these same players. The SB team was a much different defense … wouldn’t you love to have Strahan, Gibril, & Mitchell right now?
Anyway, I do agree to some extent though. I haven’t been impressed with the way Sheridan’s unit has played so some of the blame HAS to go to him. At the same time, I’m not sure that the unit is all that talented. It has great talent in spots, but has many weaknesses.
The D sturggled late last year but
it did not suck like this. It just seemed like it because the offense was not scoring as much and the D was not dominating and winning games like it had been.
In fact the only game the D sucked late last year was the Carolina game and at least in that game they made some big stops late in the fourth quarter and in OT to give the team a chance to win.
The Dallas and PHilly regular season games were not bad and if the O had sustained some drives and scored some TD’s in those games they probabbly would have won. Hell in the Dallas game in Big D they sacked Romo like 5 or 6 times, the went 3 and out all night and Eli got sacked 8 times.
Even the playoff loss to Philly was not awful, the D generated a saftey, picked off McNabb twice, and Philly’s first half TD was set up by a pick by Assante Samual the he returned to the Giants 1 yard line. The only sustained drive the Eagles had in the first half of that game was in the last two minuetes and if the Giants ran the ball and took time off the clock instead of throwing the ball 3 straight times on 1st and 5 from the Eagles 20 they probabbly would not have had time to score. Sure they wore down in the second half but they really only gave up 16 points it’s nothing like what we’ve seen recently.
way less talented
i have to agree with potroast on this one — even if spags had the EXACT same players (which he didn’t – I’d LOVE to have gibril, strahan, and mitchell at this point), the fact of the matter is, our players are simply not performing, and i refuse to blame sheridan.
i saw bill try everything yesterday. we rush 4, get pressure, and the secondary fails to make a play. we blitz, and the players fail to hit home. people like to blame coordinators because that’s the easy thing to do, but i think we have to start admitting, to some extent, that this defensive line is simply not what it once was, and talent on the rest of this defense, on its BEST days, is mediocre.
I don't know
Early in the year I would agree but when things don’t change or improve I think coaching needs to be held accountable.
I agree about lack of talent at D-Tackle but these were the same exact guys that started the past two seasons.
Gibril Wilson, really? I like the guy and he’s better than CC but no-one missed him last year and he’s not exactly setting the world on fire in Miami.
MItchell was a loss, he could make plays but I would have to say Boley might be as good if not maybe better.
Strahan, yes I agree with he was just as good at stopping the run as he was the pass and Kiwi is a downgrad and has not live up to a first round pick but still the D performed well through most of last season without Strahan.
It just reminds me of when Jonny Lynn took over for Fox and he had a lot of the same pieces, Strahan, Sehorn, Hamilton etc and the results were not the same and especailly in the fourth quarter.
I also look at a team like NO that has the same defensive talent as a year ago and the only difference is a new coordiantor and, granted their not great, but they’ve improved significantly.
I don’t like to kill coordinators either, in fact I actually defend KG on the offensive side a lot but in a league in which the talent level of teams is so small coaching can make a big difference in fact it’s what seperates a lot of teams and maybe BS is not awful but I’m not sure he’s giving the Giants an advantage in the coaching department against most teams while Spags did whether it was scheme or motivating his guys. There was a reason Philly denied teams for years from interviewing Spags for years for DC positions.
re: New Orleans
The addition of Sharper was huge. The guy has over career 60 interceptions on his resume! He knows how to read routes and time his jump on them. He is one of the key reasons that defensive unit is vastly improved this year.
by Step up and make big plays on Nov 23, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
Your right he is a difference maker
but he’s still only one guy and they are getting better play out of the front 7
No comparision between our D this year and last year
DO you recall us ever getting our doors blown off last year? Our D was not bad last year we were in every game, IF we don’t loose Plax last year who knows what this team could have done. Our Defense has regressed this year it’s obvious,
by Late for Dinner on Nov 23, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks Late for Dinner
thats my point about this D, they struggled a bit last year but did not collapse or blow games like this.
If 7 guys are getting kudos for a good game there’s enough talent to hold a 2 TD lead to a struggling team who’s missing their best offensive player. Even last years struggling D does not allow ATL back into this one.
What I think a lot of fans are not recognizing here is this was not the Saints, Colts, or Chargers offense for that matter. This was a banged up struggling O without their stud RB and there best WR neutralized by our #1 corner and they were able to mount a comeback on this D. Somethings amiss and if it’s purley talent then what chances do we have the rest of the year?
I agree
Our defense at the end of last year wasn’t very good either. With the Strahan retiring and Osi injured we blamed it on the d-line wearing down. It was a BS excuse.
One of the ‘unsung’ keys in out SB run was the play of our D tackles including Tuck. It seemed like they were playing in the opposing backfield the entire game. That’s not happening anymore. They’re getting blown off the ball. They haven’t been that good.
The D late last year was not this bad.
It struggled but not like this, they did not piss away games like this. Sure they gave up some plays here and there but for 4 quarters they kept the team in the game, they already have two games this year when they’ve gotten there doors blown off in the first 5 minutes of play and two terrible fourth quarter performances. Even in the Arizona game they never made a stop when it mattered and the RedZone defense has been atrocious this year.
Agreee about D-Tackle play but then why is Canty, who I thought was signed to play D-tackle, linning up at D End most of the day yesterday?
Red Zone Defense
is a joke! What ever happened to the bend but don’t break theory? This defense bends then snaps.
Thats what I don't get
I don’t konw if this is talent related or coaching, but if you watch a lot of NFL games most defence’s bend (It’s and offensive league now-a-days) but force teams to kick FG’s some time, but not the Giants they just give points away.
Talent related I don't think it's that simple
If it was talent than our D would not put up two or three quarters of good football. It seems to me that, after the second half of the game the other teams offense makes adjustments to what our D is doing to them and it’s off to the races, BS never ever makes in game adjustments and it kills us. I have not seen one game where our D suprised the other teams Offense and just shut them down (Well the did shut the Raiders down) Guys don’t maintain there gaps well and the linebackers (not so much Pierce) leave a lot to be desired. Secondly I find it hard to believe that non of our young guys can take over for Danny Clark. BS has got to work some of the young guys in there. It took him like 9 bad CC Brown games before he finally sat CC down. As much as I kill Gillbride I have to say he does a great job of getting the young guys involved in the game and if I guy is not working out he is willing to try a new guy. BS just keep pounding his head into the same wall.
by Late for Dinner on Nov 23, 2009 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
Well...
I know one thing..there are far less superior defenses than ours talent-wise out there and we can’t score a damn point against them..that includes a field goal because Tynes can’t kick..So, what is up with our vaunted defense down there in the Red Zone?..Who knows..One thing we do know is that they are totally disorganized..and we don’t get an ounce of surge against the offensive lines, they are pushing our guys off the ball..it is truly mind-boggling.
Red Zone D and O is terrible
We are last in Redzone Defense and were a bottom five team going into this week in Redzone Offense. We’ll see if we’ve figured it out on the offensive side or if Killdrive just got hit on the head before the game yesterday. Some is on the players but I don’t remember too many plays where balls were dropped or Eli overthrew people. Coaching has to play a big part here. The play calling is vanilla as it gets and we are somehow hoping our Oline is going to push the defense through the back of the endzone. On a whole this has been the Giants achillies heel for several seasons. Kicking (or attempting) FGs when we need TDs. As far as the defense, have you ever seen another team look as confused as the Giants routinely do before the snap? Several big plays throughout the year have come off of us not being prepared at the snap. Coaching is about getting the right personnel in the game with the right defensive scheme called on time. Depending on how the rest of the season plays out I could be fine seeing 2 new coordinators on our sidelines.
by NY Football Giants on Nov 23, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
Right on the money
BS has got to take some of the blame for this mess we call our defense. I know most people on this board are respectful fans and don’t throw the coaches under the bus. Landeta gave a great example of how our D went from John Fox to Johnnie Lynn and looked totally diffrent even though we had basically the same players. I would point out that Spags took the same personal that Tim Lewis had and won a superbowl with them.
Now people are saying we had a bad D late last year and I think that is revisionist history. Our D was not bad last year we did not get blown out last year, we did not fall apart in the 4th qtr last year. If anything our offense could not score once Plax was gone. So hopefully BS proves me wrong and I will gladly apoligize to all the posters on this board, but I think BS is in over his head, he is not that great with the X& O’s of the game and he should be let go at the end of the year and we need to bring a experienced D coordinator in here to revamp the D.
by Late for Dinner on Nov 23, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
Sad But True
Gabril was not a great safety, but I sure do miss the days when he was in the secondary!
by Late for Dinner on Nov 23, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
Be careful what you ask for
Like most, I did not care for Gibril along with Butler. I’d take both back in a heartbeat.
Aaron Ross
No thoughts on his first work at safety?
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Nov 23, 2009 9:02 AM EST reply actions
From what I saw
he stuggled at saftey a bit, he seemed out of position a few times. He did not play a lot but was in there late in the game when ATL drove the field. Considering it was his first game all year playing a new position it’s tough to kill him and should be expected but from what I saw Aaron Rouse played better and Ross’s biggest value to the team down the streatch will playing corner in nickel and dime situations. Hopefully he gets up to speed fast enough
I thought Ross did 'okay'..
They did what I expected with him..just let him start getting his feet wet again..work him back into the game carefully..So I would consider him to have accomplished what was expected of him yesterday..He will be key down the stretch..It was great to see him out on the field again.
I’m hoping that his health can keep getting better and we can have him play in all nickel situations starting the cowboys game
Rouse has played decent enough at safety these past 2 weeks, even better than Johnson might I add!
by mclaren_is_the_best on Nov 23, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
Bill Sheridan
Ed, I agree on BS. I can’t place much, if any blame on him. He stayed aggressive. The 4th quarter was on the D players on the field. No one stepped up and made a play. There was at least 3 third and 10+ conversions.
agree 100%.
sheridan tried everything, and nobody stepped up and made a play. our devensive players, plain and simple, aren’t good right now.
fortunately, a bad defense can turn into a good defense pretty quickly… and if that happens, i also will not credit bill sheridan with turning it around.
if there was one complaint...
I say he blitzed too much.
I’m all for the blitzing…but sending the LB’s on every play, or 2/3 LB’s on every play…really opened up the middle of the field.
Some disguising of who blitzes or maybe just have them drop back…might help a bit.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
I agree
but its “retrospect is 20/20”
Our blitzes weren’t getting there there, maybe we should have laid off every once in a while, but we won and right now, thats all that matters
The Cowboys are the France of the NFL
-thwalls
On 3rd down, throw it to Smith.
i'm not gonna complain about him blitzing too much
when all season we complained about him not blitzing enough. that’s like being one of those people who complain in the winter that it’s too cold, then when it warms up complains that it’s too hot.
Yeah, he Sheridan hasn’t done a good job in mixing it up, almost all the time its the MLB and ROLB blitzing the A gaps around the center.
When he does that same scheme over and over the O-Line adjusts and its no problem for them to pick it up.
I think that is why we’ve been so ineffective on defense – Sheridan’s playcalling is just predictable.
by mclaren_is_the_best on Nov 23, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
Good rundown Ed..
I disagree with guys wanting to switch the OL around though..We posted 34 points and we have enough problem areas to deal with along with a tough stretch of games..I say if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it..Tynes is horrible..His kick-offs stink, and amazingly he can only kick long field goals!..What’s up with that?!?..You give him a chip-shot, and might as well start chewing on some “Tums”..because he’ll miss them for sure. Our defense still struggles, they gave up 31 points to a team with injuries to key personnel..So I would be wary of giving our defense kudos..Ryan still was able to take advantage of us..a guy who has been playing bad football this year. We had some individual standouts, but nothing that equated to the entire unit playing well at the same time/same play consistently. You can’t blame Sheridan for that..It is totally on the players..We have guys making plays while others are falling asleep at the wheel..It doesn’t take an opposing offense long to figure out which of our guys are taking naps out there.
O-Line
Maybe not now. But, long-term you have to get Beatty on the field (meaning next year), and you have to think about getting Diehl back inside.
by Ed Valentine on Nov 23, 2009 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
OL in 2010
Agree Ed.
Beatty seems to have it – get him on the field.
And draft more high potential players. Or decide that Whimper, Boothe and Koets can start.
But DO SOMETHING!
I agree we need to get Beatty in there and Diehl definitely belongs back inside..
I just don’t think now is the time..They are commited for the season at this point and we don’t need any more chaos in the mix right now..It is what it is..I also disagree with folks saying the line is getting old..Heck they are just hitting their prime!..They need to fix their blitz blocking..and we need to find a solution to teams being able to load the box..and that solution is Eli hitting quick passes..make them pay for it..Eli threw the ball the best I’ve seen all season yesterday once he got going..Perhaps we need to establish the short passes first and then hammer them with the run..anything to get them to back out of the box..it is killling us..One impressive thing I saw was Ware ‘de-cleating’ the defensive end (can’t recall the guys name) but he put him on his back..That kid is tough!
The pass protection was good
but ATL’s pass rush stinks.
The pass protection has been more of a problem than anything lets on, Eli’s running for his life a lot back there.
The Running game is also struggling. Its not the O-Line’s fault entirely…Jake doesn’t build up a head of steam enough. But these guys are not holding their blocks. Jake gets tackled as soon as he gets one yard
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Shoe-strings
Jacobs gets tackled by his shoe-strings WAY too much for a man his size. Any time it look like there is daylight, he gets smacked on the top of his shoe and goes down.
First of all
Tynes is a liability. Yes, he kicked the winning field goal.
Secondly, our offense played much better. We had several good drives and moved the ball pretty well and didn’t punt so much. We scored more TOUCHDOWNS this time, too. We didn’t have a ton of dropped passes. I think the playcalling was little better, though at times, it was very predictable. It seemed as if the players were willing themselves to win this one.
Thirdly, I don’t see where our defense has progressed. I am glad that we have people back from injuries, and I’m sorry that we lost AP. Regardless, I just don’t see any progression since our game vs. the Chargers. In fact, I could argue that I see regression. When we’re ahead by two TDs and we end up in overtime, I just can’t see where that’s good defense (though I am cognizant that our O didn’t help out any during that scoring frenzy, except when overtime began).
When we hold the opponent on first down, we hold them on second down, and then we let them run all over the field on third and eight or ten or whatever, I just don’t see where the progress is. Playing the law of averages (ie -the longer we hold them and make them sustain a drive, the better their chances of having to punt) is not going to hold up too well unless we can actually make a STOP from time to time when it counts.
To me, that hit goes directly to the PLAYERS. Or at least the larger percentage of that hit goes to the players.
We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.
Your assessment echoes mine GA..
No consistent play from our defense..This game should never have reached overtime..In the past if our offense threw up 31 points..The ballgame would be over, because of our stingy defenses..In fact, in the past our defense would consider 31 points a luxury.
Disagree
I’m sure the Falcons fans feel they should have won the game in regulation. The Falcons missed a FG. More importantly their receiver, Jenkins dropped an easy and sure TD pass. The Falcons had to settle for FG.
Well Frank..
They certainly could have won the game..the point is history has shown that our defenses don’t blow a 14 point lead..until this year.
Your right Bobbiblue
There’s not a person here who can convince me that our defense allowing 31 points is any kind of “improvement” since the Chargers game. It is KEY that some players step up at KEY times to make KEY plays. Crap, they don’t even have to play solid all day long, just when it counts. And we have failed that test repeatedly.
We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.
I feel what you guys are saying about the D
but I’m not ready to hit the panic button right now. I’m going to give credit where credit is due and that’s to the Falcons for not folding. Remember, they are a pretty good team with a HOF TE and they too are fighting for their playoff lives. With a 14 point lead, I’m sure that our guys relaxed a little mentally. Did the Giants D not make plays or did Atlanta’s offense simply make the plays. It’s not like we crumbled to the Browns. Atlanta is a ligit contender that did not roll over for us.
Not pressing the panic button nj..
We have too much talent for that..they just need to get establish a ‘unit focussed’ defense..It does no good at all having one or three guys making plays we need all eleven playing as a solid unit..Will we get burned for a score?..of course we will..but we never give up that many points, nor do we ever blow a 14 point lead..especiallly with the talent we have on defense this year..they need to ‘gel’ together is all and they need to do that soon..This is a rough stretch we are on..It is also getting cold and windy right about now..We need our running attack in full force..Eli has proven he can play well in cold weather, but he hasn’t proven he can throw in the cold and windy conditions..This game against the Broncos is going to be another test..We should have played them after the bye week, not the Falcons..Our guys have to fly all the way the hell out there on short recovery time..If they persevere this one we will be lucky..Who are these idiots that make the schedule?..The NFL obviously thinks money, revenue..they risk the health of players just to get two supposed markee teams battling it out on Thanksgiving..I say that sucks.
You're right,
The “unit” has to come together and with all of the injuries, that has been difficult. I’ve got a good feeling about this team on both sides of the ball. I think the team will gel at the right time of the year, still, I don’t know if it will be enough to overcome Brees, that dome, and the Saints. I also agree with you about the Thanksgiving Day game but I won’t complain. Me, my full belly, my HDTV and the Gmen. It doesn’t get any better than that for a Thursday night!
Haha nj!!
Yes as long as our guys let us digest our gorging of food Thursday..I tell ya, I wouldn’t want to be around a bunch of 300 pound players having to play a football game before they can eat and celebrate Thanksgiving..There are going to be a bunch of irritated large men out there..They know their fans will be laying on couches all bloated, etc..Pissing and moaning about the game and how much we ate too much…I wouldn’t want to be near them Thursday…They will all be dreaming about Madden’s six-legged turkeys..Hopefully our guys have a better appetite.
Like I told jman
menu for Thursday calls for roasted horse and I’m hoping that there will be 22 hungry Giants come Thanksgiving night!
BS & the Defense
First I want to say a win, is a win, is a win! We needed to win and we are right in the middle of the playoff race. Our Defense is disturbing to say the least, I think you have to look at our whole track record and judge BS and the Defense on that not just one game and these are the facts. The first 5 weeks we played one good team and some pretty bad teams the D was okay, but even in the Dallas game we could not stop the run. The last 5 games the D has given up two 40 burgers and had two epic 4th quarter collapses. Yes BS deserves blame becuase he can’t adjust to how teams are attacking our defense in the 2nd half of games. I am sorry but the whole theory of coaches don’t takle and are not on the field is an excuse, if we keep thinking like that than no coach would be fired. Charlie Weiss does, not takle or make bad reads or throw the interceptions but ND is going to fire his butt after the season why? Because ultimatly he is responsible when the players keep playing bad, it’s called accountablility. This is basically the same D that Spags had last year and NOBODY would have ever thought our D would play this bad at the begining of the season. BS is in Way over his head! If we keep giving him a pass we should just bring Tim Lewis back cause that’s what this defense reminds me of a Tim Lewis Defense! I know we are stuck with BS this season, but if they do not improve Bill Sheridan has got to GO! His initials are so appropriate because that’s what we have now a BS Defense!
by Late for Dinner on Nov 23, 2009 10:33 AM EST reply actions
Tynes
Not only is Tynes not a reliable field goal kicker, his kickoffs KILL field position. This defense already has enough trouble stopping people without Tynes kicking low line drives to the 10 yard line so that the opposing team can catch it on the dead run without any coverage team players in sight. Atlanta started around the 35 to 40 several times as a result, and it wasn’t because of poor kick coverage. The coverage just didn’t have time to get down the field. Needless to say, I’d rather of Billy Cundiff.
Tynes ain't the problem
Let’s stop scape goating Tynes this game should not have been close period. Yes he drives me crazy and yes I think we should bring in some competition next season, but when the chips are down Tynes comes through. Tynes is mentally tough, anybody remember our old Kicker J. Feely. He hardly ever missed gimmies, but once he missed he went in the tank and you knew you could not count on him the rest of the game. As bad as our D is playing Tynes is not our problem!
by Late for Dinner on Nov 23, 2009 10:45 AM EST reply actions
An observation
Mike Smith made a big mistake calling that timeout to ice Tynes. Prior to the timeout Tynes appeared to be terrified. I told my nephew “he’s gonna miss”. The timeout possibly allowed Tynes to calm down.
Or maybe not. We’ll never know.
Good observation
I was thinking the same thing, Tynes is like a box of chocalate you never know what your gonna get.
by Late for Dinner on Nov 23, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
That was the worst icing I've ever seen
At least Phillips made Tynes kick it twice
The Cowboys are the France of the NFL
-thwalls
On 3rd down, throw it to Smith.
Not sure about Tynes
his kickoffs stink too, guys are fielding the ball at the 15 yard line on a run which is a big reason teams are starting at the 40 yard line. which is not helping this D.
If he cant kick off or make FG’s inside 40 yards consistenly he’s not doing his job if ATL wins the toss and win the game Tynes is a big part of the reason he lost, he just keeps getting bailed out while Jay Feely never had such luck.
Not scapegoating Tynes
I think this team has many problems and Tynes is one of them. You can’t give an offense good field position against our terrible defense.
And Tynes would have lost this game for us if we had we not won the coin toss.
Tynes
I agree Tynes definitly pisses me off, but I was just pointing out that we are not loosing games because of Tynes and I think we do have to acknowledge that when the pressure is on he comes through. Having said that I would agree the Giants need to look at the kicking situation next year, but the D is way more of a problem than Tynes.
by Late for Dinner on Nov 23, 2009 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Graham Gano
I just want to know what happens to these awesome college kickers? I watch a lot of ACC football and Gano was awesome last year. Plus, the hashmarks in college are wider which makes kicking field goals even tougher. He made something like 5 or 6 kicks over 50 yards. Plus, he consistently kicked touchbacks. How does he not make somebody’s roster?
gano is kicking for las vegas' ufl team
i would love to bring him in. either use him as a kicker or groom him to be feagles replacement.
We are losing games primarily..
Because of our lack of Red Zone success..but Tynes needs to make those kicks..Every point counts when your team stinks inside the twenty.
Losing games thoughts
Speaking of Red Zone success how come our D is last in the leauge in defending the Red Zone,
by Late for Dinner on Nov 23, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
he's good from long range
and has ice in his veins during GW situations.
But his kickoffs are horrendous. Might as well kick it out of bounds. The coverage doesn’t help, but a line drive kick with no air under it, starting from the 10-15 yard line? 15 yards and the guy’s at the 30, break a tackle or 2 and he’s at the 40 anyway.
The missed FG’s happen, as evidenced with Jason Elam on the other side. That sucks…but its gonna happen with every kicker.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
Shouldn't miss under 40 yards
An NFL kicker should be pretty much automatic inside 40 yards. Tynes has missed 4 kicks inside 40 yards this season.
I hate to bring it up time and time again, but Tynes missed a couple big kicks in the NFC Championship game against Green Bay that would have won it in regulation. He does miss clutch kicks too.
Elam has been bad for Atlanta this year and is on the verge of getting cut.
Don't get me wrong...
if there was a suitable replacement for Tynes…I’d ship his ass back to Scotland. He is definitely NOT an asset and a liability too much of the time.
I agree…a kicker shouldn’t be missing kicks inside the 40…its just…they do.
I would love to hear they cut Tynes during the week and signed someone else.
I’d like to trust that they did try…but didn’t find anyone who outkicks him…which is kind of sad.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Only a matter of time..
Before he misses one of those chip shots and it costs us the game. A professional kicker should be automatic under 40 yards and be able to kick the ball into the end zone on kickoffs. What was ATL’s average starting field position?? 35 yd line at least?
by JINTS14 on Nov 23, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Avg of 35 yd line
JINTS14,
Their average starting field position from our kickoffs was exactly the 35 yard line, and that takes out the fact that we squibbed at the end of the first half.
35 yard line on average
Is ridiculous…One first down and they are at mid field.. its totally unacceptable and I just can’t understand why there isn’t some former soccer player out there who can kick the ball through the end zone on a consistent basis?? Do we need to have open tryouts??
uh chargers game?
He didn’t even try to kick the one in the the chargers game 2 weeks ago and we lost by 1 point at the end
by mclaren_is_the_best on Nov 23, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah that is amazing..
The guy can kick 35+ and miss the short ones just as easily..incredible..Makes no sense to me..
hey Late
the chips were down BECAUSE of Tynes. We wouldn’t be talking about a coin flip had he nailed the gimme.
I don’t expect any kicker to be perfect. but you have to hit the gimmes. Especially when our O is known for shutting down in the yellow zone.
Tynes has to go, yesterday.
Chips etc.
“the chips were down BECAUSE of Tynes” Not true the Chips were down because our Defense could not hold a friggin 14 point lead. I am not trying to sell you on Tynes as the best kicker in the NFL he is not.
When our defense gives up 31 points and colapses in the 4th quarter AGAIN blaming the kicker for almost loosing the game is a lot like kicking the dog after a bad day at work.
Speaking of coin flip, if the coin lands on tails and Atlanta gets the ball first we would be here talking about what a terrible loss that was because there is no way our d was stoping them in OT.
by Late for Dinner on Nov 23, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
the blame isn't squarely on his shoulders
but he has a part in it.
Even the one he hit barely itched past the right upright.
Let’s not talk about his horrid kickoffs that almost always sees an opponent starting at his own 35. That doesn’t help a struggling D, when they lose 5 – 10 yards of field position every drive. that’s an extra first down to get a stop.
there will be times when any D, even the good ones, get hit for 30+. it’s up to the other components of the team, INCLUDING the kicker, to pick them up and hit the gimmes, and do his job. Tynes did not do that Sunday, and has not done it all season. it will only take him missing a field goal at the wrong time for people to realize how much of a liability he is.
So yes, Tynes does, and should, get blame yesterday.
Tynes Warts & Chips
Dre,
LOL you got me defending the undefendable first and formost let me say I agree with you that we can do better at the kicking position. However right now we are stuck with Lawrence because if there was somthing better out there I am sure Jerry & Tom would have him here right now as we speak.
My point about Tynes is that our D is not a good, they are getting lit up for 30+ points a lot, in fact they have full out blown four games already. Tynes has not cost us one game yet. So I think more of your Ire should be focused on our D because Tynes won the game despite our D’s best efforts to blow the game. If Tynes missed the field goal in OT than I think Tynes bashing would be more apporiate but since Elam missed a field goal too, his first miss was a wash. This game should not have been close period.
by Late for Dinner on Nov 23, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
Boss > Tynes
More Boss in the Redzone = less Tynes … just a thought!
by NY Football Giants on Nov 23, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
Tynes didn't help with the miss...
it also ended up not really hurting.
If Elam makes that kick….it hurts. The misses basically canceled out.
Tynes kickoffs are my main concern. I thought he could score a goal from one goal line to the other in his soccer league?
Maybe we need to liquer him up before the games?
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
If you noticed..
On Elam’s kick the holder presented him with all laces..It was lucky for us but what a crappy hold..that had “knuckle-ball” written all over it.
Tynes may not be THE problem
but surely IS NOT the answer, either. I don’t like him, but I’m not scapegoating him. He sucks.
He sucks on field goals and he sucks on kickoffs. Now, if those duties are his ONLY jobs and he can’t fulfill his obligations with relative consistency, then we need to re-assess the situation. Honestly, is there anyone in here who fully trusts Tynes on any given kick? If you do, well, never mind.
He does come through on the SECOND TRY when the chips are down.
He’s not our ultimate problem but he certainly amplify the whole situation regarding points and field position. He’s done it since we’ve had him.
We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.
Tynes
I hold my breath every time Tynes kicks, however he does seem to have a knack for kicking big field goals granted after a miss or two. The reason I said don’t scape goat him is first he has not cost us one game yet & because our defense is a HUGE problem.
Our defensive Coordinator looks like he is in over his head. Tynes missed an easy field goal, but he redeemed himself and won that game. Can you say the same for our defense, if Atlanta wins the coin flip did you have any confidence our D would stop them?
by Late for Dinner on Nov 23, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
when ATL missed a FG
I thought, OK forget about that Tynes miss; both teams should have 3 more points. ( though it didn’t leave with a good feeling..)
Now… watching Tyne’s KO’s and to see him attempt the game winner…
that’s another thing…
I dunno man...
the spoting of the other team at the 40 definitely didn’t help the defense.
Field position from special teams can definitely cost you games…and it has.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
Amen. Thanks FreeBradshaw. Beat me to the punch!
We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.
I was only referring to his
makes and misses on FGs. His kickoffs suck of anus. Yesterday, you would have thought that he was trying to avoid Devin Hester.
35, 40, 28, 37, 23, 35
The starting field position off a Tynes kickoff. The only time he kicked it deep and didn’t squib kick it was when the Falcons started at the 23. Maybe TC should allow him to kick it deep. Enough with the squib kicks.
didn't he miss a FG against SD?
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Nov 23, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe Eli's best game ever...
Definitely the most accurate I have ever seen him throw. The short slants were right on the receivers’ hands every time, the post pattern to Smith he did not even break stride, the corner routes to Boss on the money, Manningham reaching over his shoulder on the sideline the ball was right there, heck he even made Hedgecock look like he had decent hands! I was there yesterday and it was pretty windy too, 384 yards and 3td’s gotta give Easy E some serious props for making the difference.
Here Here
I am being a little to negative over our victory, You post Jints Eli had a great game when we needed it most. I don’t care what others think of him, Eli is my Quaterback man!
by Late for Dinner on Nov 23, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
I thought that's the way he played
before the injury.
Yea, ton of yards, but that was just gonna come with more trust in his WR (and the coaching staff’s trust with Boss).
Eli’s been this accurate for a while now, the WR are just catching them (and getting open).
As this season progresses, Ham and Nicks are just gonna get better.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Hedgecock does have good hands
Like most fans you are fixated on a four game stretch from last year where he had the dropsies. Hedger actually has decent hands for a FB.
Agree
The problem is he has those huge fullback shoulder pads on and can’t lift his arms above his head. You can’t throw the ball high to him. But otherwise he has decent hands, which is what they probably see in practice and why they keep throwing to him.
OL
I think everyone has taken turns this year wondering what has happened to Jacobs or blaming Bradshaw’s injury for his recent running. After watching the game yesterday I believe it would be impossible for someone to look good running behind that offensive line. The RBs are getting hit when they are getting the ball. There is never a hole open to run through. The OL is being pushed back into the backfield. I think Jacobs and Bradshaw are doing what they did last year, its just that our OL isn’t getting any sort of push and opening any holes.
Not related to the game
but from what I can tell, there was a play right before halftime in Dallas yesterday where it was first called that Campbell stepped out of bounds for a sack and it was then overturned by a booth review to be an incomplete pass – but when the same thing happened to Eli a couple of weeks ago, didn’t they say it was unreviewable? What’s the deal with that?
I saw the same thing!!
That was such BS. They let the booth review that play and overturned the call. But in the Giants game they said you can only review the spot if a first down or TD is in question. I’d love to know why the refs a) either don’t know the rule or b) don’t enforce the same rule during all the games.
Yes that was a head-scratcher for me..
Do they now make their own rules?
Exactly. And they can't be challenged
even if it can be proven that a play they whistled “dead” was not, in fact, dead at all.
To an extent, they make their own rules. Watch the segment on the NFL Network where they talk to the head of officiating, and he rarely ever admits mistakes, even when they are clearly in the wrong.
We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.
Glad to see someone else notice AR...Rouse not Ross
the open thread only seemed to mention him for that bogus call yesterday, but i noticed #26 alot yesterday – almost as much as 52 and 57. he seemed to be in the right spots, and did what was asked of him. maybe he’s another diamond pulled out of the rough, in Reese we trust.
Yes to Cofield. I called that one during the game thread. Our pressure is slowly getting better.
I’m taking my foot off of Sheridan’s neck this week, he doesn’t deserve kudos, but he didn’t step off the gas even during crunch time.
Alot to work on, a little time, but with the mess Denver has become, i’m confident that we can happily digest our birds come Thursday eve….
yup
I disagree with everyone who says the D didn’t improve or look damn good at times…cuz it did.
The only complaint was getting off the field on 3rd downs late in the game..and stop killing themselves with penalties.
Yes, some were bad calls…but you gotta try and avoid those. THe holding calls in the secondary? Let him go…he catches it he catches it. But he could drop it or you could recover and make a big play.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
there’s no reason for defensive holding on that play. We could understand if it would have been a TD.
I am sorry but..
Our defense blew a 14 point lead..as a unit they were not good at all…There was hardly a drive where they were firing on all eleven cylinders..Individually, yeah you could pick a host of players that did great, but as an 11 man unit they didn’t do well..they gave up 31 points to a team with key injuries and a QB who has played bad all season long..We need a “coin” to win it.
Can I edit your statement Bobbi?
can we say they looked good, until the 4th quarter? because keep in mind, they had scored only 17 going into that final frame. had they held them there, or to a field goal or less, we’d be lauding them for there valiant effort(except on 3rd downs as freebrad pointed out)
don’t get me wrong, the overall product still needs big time work. i was heated yesterday. when that field goal (barely) went through, i didn’t move off my couch. didn’t even crack a smile. I was not happy with that 4th quarter.
But from the Saints/Eagle debacles a month or so ago, i’ve seen hints off the old giants D. more pressure from our vaunted line. more blitzing. more big plays, big stops, etc. some of those throws that Matty Ice hit for were under alot of pressure. that’s why they call him ice.
its’ getting better. we’ve just got to lock it down in the 4th quarter.
that's what I'm saying...
and its just…while I keep saying the D has to make plays and stop hurting themselves with the penalties…
the O can help them out by sustaining a drive. That’s where the lack of running game can kill them and pretty much did.
IF they had the running game of last year…they run that thing down and the D gets a rest and can pin their ears back even more.
Its all cyclical.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
Yes wild..
Your key point is the fourth qtr breakdown..I agree with you that is the root problem now that you mention it..
They played poorley the entire second half
ATL scored on all 4 posessions in the second half not one punt! They took the opening drive of the second half and went right down there throats to put themselves back in the game. I know you guys are being posative but 24 points in a half is not an improvement to me
by Landeta on Nov 23, 2009 2:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree with Bobbi
This 4th quarter collapse was the second game in a row that the D could not hold a lead, let’s not even mention the 40 burger’s Philly and New Orleans hung around their necks. You say you see signs of the old Giants D I have to ask where? They show me signs of a Tim Lewis D. The couldn’t stop the cardinals when it counted and the only teams they have looked good against are the soup cans of the league. Dallas ran all over them. To me we are winning despite our defense and our defense is regressing.
by Late for Dinner on Nov 23, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Rouse was solid
he did not blow my doors off with his performance, but he was not coming up as the culprit in bad play after bad play (like another Safety on the roster).
he didn't have a career day
but he held his end of the bargain on the field yesterday. unlike bruce johnson.
I agree.
the fact we are really not mentioning Rouse’ name (aside from the roughing penalty—which was a good hard play and to me a blown, puss call. This is football you know…)
He didn’t really hurt (tho…the penalties did hurt).
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Kevin Boss
is a stud. He continues to make plays. He gets clobbered time and time again but hangs on to the ball. It’s imperative the Giants continue to utilize him especially in the Red Zone.
Yes Frank...
Boss, I had him number two behind Witten..but he has convinced me he is the number one tight-end in the league..He defines “tough”..I am sooooo happy Shockey is gone..Boss takes a beating and just comes right back..and he hardly misses a catch..He’s awesome..
The other thing I like about Boss..
Is he is not a “Prima Donna”..just a workhorse..He is going to be a key to any playoff ambitions we have and any success we have if we get there.
I love players
that make a play then get up and go back to the huddle like it’s another day at the office.
Give another wet willie to...
Michael Johnson. He’s terrible. He honestly should not be out on the field at all. The safeties should be Rouse and Ross, leave Brown and Johnson on special teams if that. The guy can’t make a tackle to save his life, he has no clue how to take on zone coverage, and wants to be like Brian Dawkins too much.
are u really surprised?
I really dont’ know why on earth we thought MJ was going to be a starting S for us. he’s way to undersized to have an effect playing close to the line. Truth is, he’s a back up and that’s about all.
The giants really screwed the pooch in the off season by not addressing the S position and we’re paying for it.
Johnson IMO never showed any real signs of being a starter at SS yet that’s where he’s playing…Rouse and CC have never showed any signs of being a solid FS, yet that’s where they’re playing.
Giants made a boo boo and it’s evident by the fact that Ross was out there playing a lot of Safety yesterday.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
Ross was playing for ROUSE a lot....
Michael Johnson is pretty solid actually, that’s why no one talks about him,
He we out of position a lot yesterday and in previous games too, so he’s taken about 5 steps back this season.
Before this season there was no reason to think he’d be worse.
Remember, he’s had to play with CC Brown a lot, who had no clue what to do on most plays.
Johnson played off KP and before that Gibril Wilson and James Butler…both of which if they never left the Giants would be solid in that spot now.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
yes...Ross was playing for Rouse
but my comment was about our inept Safeties as a whole.
IMO MJ has shown flashes…but nothing to the point where we should have been comfortable going into this season w/ 3 guys at Safety.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
yea..
that was a bad move only signing CC Brown. Even if they really had no clue on KP’s injury, they should’ve signed a better backup or 2 or at least drafted one higher.
Next season I wouldn’t be surprised if KP is the only one left, or maybe they go give MJ some competition.
I disagree on him tho, I think before this season he was pretty solid and when he doesn’t have to worry about covering the whole field cuz he safey mate is horrendous, he isn’t bad. This past he was out of position entirely too much.
At the very least they need some competition in camp for him.
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
yup...
we need someone to push MJ. nothing wrong with that.
sadly we’ll need a better back up for KP too because it’s clear that CC and Rouse aren’t gonna be the guys…and last time i checked nobody on the giants owned a crystal ball to see into KP’s future.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
JR gambled on the safety spot
I do not know how in the world JR saw CC’s game tapes and thought he could play if called upon. I know we are linebacker heavy but I was a little suprised we only had three safety’s on the roster, you would think he would have at least found a corner who could play safety in a pinch, kind of like RW. Hopefully we draft a safety pretty high and sign a veteran who can play just in case KP can’t make it all the way back.
by Late for Dinner on Nov 23, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
Go back and watch the game
and you’ll see that Michael Johnson wasn’t the only one missing tackles. Quite a few of our guys missed tackles yesterday. And I can prove it by the fact that I lost my voice because of this.
We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.
I don't want to toot my own horn or anything....
actually…yes i do…
I knew Webster would have a bounce back performance.
YOu could see him out there being more physical, getting his hands on White off the line on almost every play. the SD game IMO was the result of playing zone and not being thrown at for a long time. At least he got it together and played himself a great game.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
Well Andiamo
Your right..Webster was a mad man out there..but again the entire unit was not on the same page consistently..Again we had too many players sleep-walking every play. Our guys"collectively"… made Ryan look like a pro-bowl caliber QB yesterday..a guy who has been playing really bad football this year..I think Ed should sum up each unit offense and defense and either kudo them or wet willy them…I give the defense as a unit, a big wet willy.
non exsistent pass rush...
sheridan to his credit brought a lot of pressure…and we couldn’t get to Ryan at all. two sacks was not enough. we’re going to have to find a way to get to the QB.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
Why Bill Sheridan deserves a Wet Willie too.
Just reading Mike Garafolo’s (Newark Star Ledger) second look at the game and he pointed out somthing very interesting about BS’s D. The BS Defense already allowed somthing to happen twice that never happened once when Spags was the D coordinator. What is that you ask… A late touchdown to win or tie the game!
See seems that Spags D was 7 for 7 in keep the opposing offense out of the endzone at the end of the game: BS is already 0 for 2 in keeping the opposing team out of the endzone at the end of the game. He also pointed out that Atlanta ran the same play the Chargers ran around the goal line to make M Johnson have to pick between two threats on the goal line for coverage. Sheridan failed to correct that again! Oh and one more thng just for gigles Tim Lewis Defense was 4 for 6 in not giving up a late touchdown to win or tie the game. Any Thoughts??
by Late for Dinner on Nov 23, 2009 4:31 PM EST reply actions
This is what I mean when I say no improvement
It seems like the same stuff is killing this team and they are not improving which to me has something to do with coaching.
Yes guys are not making plays in big spots and D-Tackles are getting pushed around a bit. Saftey has been an issue and BS is not at fault for these problems.
I have not looked at Sheridan as a problem all year and wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt but after 10 games I think it’s safe to say he’s not doing a great job. The players are the main culprits but I’m getting a little worried about the D-coordiantor.
that one i chalk up to execution....
those two guys gotta know what the other one is doing. i don’t see how it’s sheridan’s fault that MJ and BJ both covered the same guy….
in fact it’s not his fault…that one is one MJ or BJ…but probably both b/c they’re were standing 4 feet apart and couldn’t even communicate with one another.
who knows, pitchers and catchers get crossed up sometimes…maybe that was the reason? but it just looks awful when it results in a guy being left wide open in the end zone.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
execution or bad scheme or both?
The point was that Atlanta saw how the Chargers ran Gates and and Jackson at MJ and made him pick his poison. The Falcons did the same thing with Gonzalez and White, Sheridan has to come up with a scheme to cover those guys at the goal line you can’t just depend on the player to make the right play there cause either MJ gives the corner extra help and leaves the tight end wide open on the goal line or covers the tight end and leaves the corner with no help. You bet your last Dollar Denver is going to run that play on us on the goal line again Thursday, Sheridan has to figure out how to get MJ and the corner some help so they don’t have to make that choice. When we fall for the same play two weeks in a row thats coaching and the scheme of the defense.
by Late for Dinner on Nov 23, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
you leave the corner with no help....each and every time.
if you noticed MJ wasn’t providing help on that play…he was playing man coverage. I just think they got their signals crossed and both covered the same guy.
Webster had White in Man coverage on that play so it tells me we were playing man and those two just blew it.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
Agreed
However, teams see this and know there will be no help for the corner, Jackson burned us for the game winning TD like that. My point is change the coverage a little. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting diffrent results is stupid. Let’s hope they get this corrected before Thursday becasue I will bet you Denver is going to run that on us.
by Late for Dinner on Nov 23, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
as they should.
but honestly, the Jackson TD…that was on Webster. I know it’s tough to match up one on one against a big target like Jackson, but Webster shoulda got his hands on him at the line and slowed him down.
again…it’s nice to have that safety help but from they way they’ve played you just can’t expect it…sad as it sounds.
Webster knew that was his man, but he made a mistake…that cost us the game.
their was no deception on that play…jackson said, here i come, stop me if you want, and webster didn’t.
i want denver to run that play…these guys are going to have to get it right and it’s pretty clear that practice ain’t getting the job doen.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
where BS does deserve a wet willie....
is on the 3rd and 13 when he switched into Zone coverage and left Bruce Johnson by himself to cover two guys…that was an easy First down.
I don’t get why he thinks our defense can play zone. We can’t. We’ve been playing in Man coverage the past 2 years and this guy comes in and acts like we’re a zone coverage secondary….which we aren’t, we never were, and we’ll never be.
not with Rouse and CC brown playing FS.
common sense BS…grow a set and stick to your man coverage.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
Hello G-Men Fans
I hope to have a happy Thanksgiving by eating turkey, banana cream and cherry pie and watching the Broncos snap a 4-game losing skid. Of course, we’ve got to play our best to beat you guys which is something we’ve not done a whole lot of lately.
Brad James
Hey Brad..
Should be a good game..Is it going to be Simms or Orton? this week?..I don’t know if by game time I could handle the pies..Maybe something a little lighter..like a few beers maybe..er, well okay not maybe..definitely a few beers..I’ll wave goodbye to the guests and crack open a few buds..I can throw a nice tight spiral with an empty bud can..When they are full they make a hell of a mess, though..so I always try to refrain from that full beer toss..My wife hates it when I throw a full beer can pass..but she’s a faithful woman, always setting me up with a new cold one..Watching my Giants play is about the only time I wish we lived in a double-wide trailer..During commercials I can go look for my kids..I only have about sixty seconds to find them though..Our ten year old is always jumping up and down hollering over the game..My wife laughs when I tell him to calm down…She says: “have another cold beer coach”..I think that translates to “A-hole”..I’m not sure..but by the look I get I’m kinda leaning towards that translation…Anyways, if you see a splotch suddenly appear on your TV screen it is most likely me throwing a touchdown pass with a perfectly placed beer can spiral..
G-Men Fans are class
If we do beat you guys, I’ll come back and congratulate you on a game well played. Nevertheless, to me, Cowboys fans are akin to Dolts, Raider and Chiefs fans. If we beat you guys, make sure you take your aggression out on that little girl Tony Romo the following weekend!
Brad James
that game against Dallas you guys played
is one of the better points of the season. At the time no one was sure if the Broncos were any good (I do think ’they’re’ asking the question again tho…) and beating the perenially overrated Dallas squad made a good day of it.
After the Giants eat horse (I wouldn’t be a fan if I wasn’t predicting and rooting for a win would I??) on Thanksgiving…I’ll be a Bronco fan Christmas weekend again.
There’s nothing better the Broncos could do than to beat the Cowboys and Eagles…and lose to the Giants. Here’s to the Broncos going undefeated in that regard!
"It ain't over till its over"---
by FreeBradshaw on Nov 23, 2009 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Thanksgiving your our mortal enemy
Beat the Eagles after having beat the Cowboys, and we can hopefully be friends again.
That being said, is there any one thing you would blame your slide on? Back when you guys were 6-0, I didn’t think you go defeated, but I didn’t think the Chargers would have won this game so resoundingly either.
The Cowboys are the France of the NFL
-thwalls
On 3rd down, throw it to Smith.
Will..
The Bolts are back..Rivers is throwing darts and the LT wanna-be is healthy again..That is a tough combo to overcome..but if I were a Broncos fan I’d say don’t worry, Tomlinson will be back on the sideline nursing a ding before all is said and done..It always is the case with him..He’ll stub his toe and be out of the line-up, while Rivers plays thru a torn MCL..with no run support..Any team that neutralizes Sproles.. wins.
Haha..Brad
On a serious note, every game our teams play from here on out are crucial..You guys are going to have to step it up to beat the bolts..and we have to deal with the Cowgirls..The Broncos have come along ways this year, especially after the Cutler issue..It is going to be tough for our guys to fly out there on short notice and beat your guys..but we’ll see..I wish you the best of luck..the better prepared team will win…that’s football..If we lose to Chris Simms it will take alot of the sting away from losing..I am always in that kid’s corner..I hope he plays and throws for 500 yards..but of course loses..I may very well have to hit the Turkey leftovers if he plays well and my Giants win..
Just my thoughts
A win is a win is a win. Great. The defense finally applied some pressure and held their own until the end of the game. Still problems. Need to stop those lend of the gsame drives. Manningham played like a stud and so did Nicks. Smith as usual was good. No one though impresses me as much as the Boss Man. He takes a kickin and keeps on tickin. I as glad they used him more than usual (especially in the red zone) and it truly paid dividends. Great game for Eli too.
Its a shame Dallas won since they should have lost. However the Giants did their part and for that I am happy. Now lets see how they step up against the sinking Broncos. Hopefully BJ is ok. The O line does need to protect Eli more but he was prevailed and come though when it counted.
They played like a team yesterday. Lets just keep it up!
Tough game coming up....
On a short week after a physical OT win, the Giants have to fly cross country. Not easy, but if the defense can find a way to just not suck so much, maybe it will be a Happy Turkey Day!
http://www.myteamrivals.typepad.com/newyorkgiants
could you ask for a better team to play on a short schedule?
there is a good article on espn.com where the broncos are combusting from the inside. They have tons of problems, especially with coming to the fact that they arent that good. the only problem with the game is that its on the nfl network which I dont get.
oops I crapped my pants!
Sucks
But I think depending on where you live, they may simulcast it on a local channel, like how local MNF games are put on channel 9 around here. I’m not holding out, but hopefully the NFL will realize its just pissing people off if we can’t watch it.
Single cover the real Steve Smith at your own peril
agreed
it is the night game so MAYBE it might happen but im not planning on it
oops I crapped my pants!
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Community Guidelines
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Get Your Giants' Gear
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
