New York Giants news & notes: Love numbers? You'll love this

by Ed Valentine on Nov 13, 2009 11:00 AM EST in New York Giants News

Just when I thought I knew every nook and cranny of the Internet where I could find information about the New York Giants and the NFL, along comes someone with a new one.

I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks. And you can always uncover a new and fascinating Web site.

I didn't exactly 'uncover' Pro Football Focus. One of the other football bloggers here at SB Nation brought it to the attention of all of the football writers across the network. I am, however, going to sing its praises.

I'm not a stat geek. I have hardly spent an exhaustive amount of time at the site, but I have uncovered some information I haven't been able to find anywhere else.

Here are some examples. These numbers are through eight games by the way, which is my only minor complaint. By Thursday night, I'd hope to see the Giants-Chargers game included. Regardless, the numbers are instructive.

Remember back in the pre-season when we were wondering how snaps would be apportioned among the defensive linemen? Well, the numbers are right here. Oh, and Fred Robbins' horrid grades show why the Giants need Chris Canty to play well the rest of the way.
As much as we kill 'Bad, Bad C.C. Brown' Pro Football Focus' grading system rates fellow safety Michael Johnson as an even bigger liability in the secondary. I will admit I haven't quite digested the site's grading system. I just know they are studying every play, and the results are fascinating.
Want to know exactly what areas of the field Eli Manning appears to have the most success throwing to? Well, here is a quadrant-by-quadrant breakdown.
Want to know why Derek Hagan is on the active roster every Sunday and Ramses Barden isn't? Well, these numbers show you how valuable Hagan is on the Giants' coverage teams.
Want to know which offensive lineman grades out the worst thus far? You might be surprised that it is not Kareem McKenzie. McKenzie, though, has given up the most hits on Manning.

There are lots of numbers like these. If you love stats, you'll love the site.

We all know the Giants have put themselves in a tough spot when it comes to making the playoffs. Another site I happen to like, Cool Standings, gives the Giants a 36.7 percent chance for a fifth straight playoff appearance. Just to make you feel even worse, back when they were 5-0 Cool Standings gave the Giants a 92.2 percent chance of making the post-season.
SBNation.com's Weekly NFL Power Rankings have the Giants 15th. By the way, those are voted on by SBN football bloggers. I wasn't even that kind to the Giants, to be honest.
Former NFL coach and current FOX Sports NFL analyst Brian Billick isn't sure the Giants have the personnel to stop their current slide.

"The things that concerned you about the Giants coming into the season again were: Where are their big-play receivers, and how is their back seven going to hold up? Now, we're seeing that those questions were legitimate.

I don't know how good this receiving corps really is and I don't know how good their back end is. Like I was saying about Tomlinson, I don't think things are really right with Brandon Jacobs, either. Also, there may be no answers to fixing that secondary. There is no one who is going to ride in on his white horse to resurrect it. It just isn't going to happen.

You just have to do those things that will protect that secondary. What were the Giants known for when they won their Super Bowl — getting pressure with a four-man rush. Well, today very few teams can get to the quarterback with just a four-man pass rush. Minnesota can do it and Dallas is showing signs of being able to do it, too. New York, with former defense coordinator Steve Spagnuolo running the show the past two years, found ways of doing that. But that back end is pretty suspect now, so I'm not sure the Giants can do the same things."

Here the complete up-to-date stats for the Giants thru nine games.

Passing

		Passing									Rushing					Sacks
	G	Rating	Comp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/G	Y/A	TD	INT	Rush	Yds	Y/G	Avg	TD	Sack	YdsL
David Carr	4	97.9	15	24	62.5	172	43	7.2	1	0	7	29	7.3	4.1	1	2	11
Eli Manning	9	89.5	165	275	60	2070	230	7.5	15	8	10	40	4.4	4	0	13	82

Rushing

		Rushing						Receiving
	G	Rush	Yds	Y/G	Avg	Lng	TD	Rec	Yds	Y/G	Avg	Lng	TD
Ahmad Bradshaw	9	103	515	57.2	5	38	4	10	96	10.7	9.6	55	0
David Carr	4	7	29	7.3	4.1	12	1	0	0	0	0	0	0
Brandon Jacobs	9	151	617	68.6	4.1	31	2	10	56	6.2	5.6	22	0
Gartrell Johnson	2	11	39	19.5	3.5	11	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Eli Manning	9	10	40	4.4	4	13	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Hakeem Nicks	7	1	9	1.3	9	9	0	23	407	58.1	17.7	62	4
Danny Ware	3	2	9	3	4.5	6	0	0	0	0	0	0	0

Receiving

		Receiving
	G	Rec	Yds	Y/G	AVG	Lng	TD
Travis Beckum	5	5	35	7	7	15	0
Kevin Boss	8	19	283	35.4	14.9	30	2
Ahmad Bradshaw	9	10	96	10.7	9.6	55	0
Derek Hagan	7	4	26	3.7	6.5	12	0
Domenik Hixon	6	8	62	10.3	7.8	13	0
Brandon Jacobs	9	10	56	6.2	5.6	22	0
Darcy Johnson	2	4	40	20	10	14	0
Mario Manningham	8	34	491	61.4	14.4	49	4
Sinorice Moss	4	1	18	4.5	18	18	1
Hakeem Nicks	7	23	407	58.1	17.7	62	4
Steve Smith	9	61	719	79.9	11.8	43	5

Returns

		Kickoff Returns					Punt Returns
	G	KR	YDS	AVG	Lng	TD	PR	Yds	Avg	Lng	TD
William Beatty	1	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Chase Blackburn	6	1	3	3	3	0	0	0	0	0	0
Ahmad Bradshaw	9	0	0	0	0	0	6	55	9.2	20	0
Kevin Dockery	4	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	0	0	0
Madison Hedgecock	2	1	8	8	8	0	0	0	0	0	0
Domenik Hixon	6	21	522	24.9	68	0	8	98	12.3	27	0
Sinorice Moss	4	6	109	18.2	29	0	11	74	6.7	16	0
Hakeem Nicks	7	1	16	16	16	0	0	0	0	0	0
Danny Ware	3	2	37	18.5	20	0	0	0	0	0	0
Corey Webster	9	0	0	0	0	0	1	8	8	8	0

Punting

	Punting
	G	Punts	Yds	AVG	Lng	In20	TB
Jeff Feagles	9	36	1414	39.3	59	15	2

Kicking

		Field Goals								PAT
	G	0-19	20-29	30-39	40-49	50+	FGM	FGA	PCT	XPM	XPA	PCT	pts
Lawrence Tynes	9	0 - 0	8 - 10	7 - 8	4 - 5	0 - 0	19	23	80.0%	25	25	100.0%	82

Defense

		Sacks		Interceptions			Tackles
	G	Sacks	YdsL	Int	Yds	IntTD	Solo	Ast	Total
Rocky Bernard	8	1	11	0	0	0	10	4	14
Chase Blackburn	6	.500	5.5	0	0	0	21	13	34
Michael Boley	4	0	0	0	0	0	19	2	21
C.C. Brown	8	0	0	0	0	0	37	4	41
Chris Canty	1	0	0	0	0	0	2	0	2
Danny Clark	8	1	8	0	0	0	17	10	27
Barry Cofield	7	0	0	0	0	0	9	4	13
Zak DeOssie	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Kevin Dockery	4	0	0	0	0	0	1	1	2
Jonathan Goff	3	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	1
Bruce Johnson	8	1	12	1	34	0	10	4	14
Michael Johnson	9	1	6	1	0	0	27	7	34
Bryan Kehl	5	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	1
Mathias Kiwanuka	9	3	14	0	0	0	20	5	25
Kenny Phillips	2	0	0	2	22	0	9	4	13
Antonio Pierce	9	1	4	0	0	0	40	15	55
Fred Robbins	8	1	0	0	0	0	16	2	18
Aaron Rouse	7	0	0	0	0	0	3	2	5
Rich Seubert	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Clint Sintim	2	0	0	0	0	0	3	2	5
Chris Snee	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Terrell Thomas	9	1	9	3	49	0	32	9	41
Dave Tollefson	7	1	9	0	0	0	3	0	3
Justin Tuck	8	3.5	17.5	0	0	0	24	5	29
Osi Umenyiora	9	5	47	0	0	0	14	5	19
Corey Webster	9	0	0	1	0	0	27	4	31
Gerris Wilkinson	6	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	1

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Comments

wow

i am very impressed by pro football focus, i will continue to look at the site from time to time. one interesting stat i came across — Eli has thrown the majority of his picks (6 out of 13) when he was under no pressure. that’s bad decision making eli : (

by GiantsReignSupreme on Nov 13, 2009 11:15 AM EST reply actions

I’ve often felt Eli was at his worst when he has lots of time to throw.

by FrankB0318 on Nov 13, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions

i'd be interesting in finding out...

how many of those INTs were catch-able and bounced off someones hands for a pick.

i.e. the Hixon play vs. Wash. I think Manningham had one like that too…and even Jacobs right?

"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT

by andiamo708 on Nov 13, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions

Danny Clark's the Giants best LB.

Who knew?

Good stuff Ed.

Boss, Eli and Smith for TEH PROZ BOWL!

"It ain't over till its over"---

by FreeBradshaw on Nov 13, 2009 11:48 AM EST reply actions

I'm suspicious now

AP has a 3.4 pass coverage rating to Boley’s 4.1, which is good enough for a tie at 6th amongst all LB’s?!

by Hootman on Nov 13, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions

Reading some more

on their site, it appears that pass coverage is actually the hardest thing to grade because the networks rarely show the action down field. That might have something to do with it. Also, look at their overall rating … AP’s is not good, but Boley’s is.

I’ve got to say, the deeper I get into the site the more impressed I get. It’s pretty cool. There are some weaknesses, but overall they are compiling tons of stuff we didn’t have access to before.

by potroast on Nov 13, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions

Exactly

Not sure of all the formulas, and not sure I agree with all of it, but it gives you some data you didn’t have before and that’s a plus.

by Ed Valentine on Nov 13, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions

This jumped

off the page at me.

by FrankB0318 on Nov 13, 2009 2:13 PM EST up reply actions

Dang boss is at the top

That run blocking score is insane.

Like a boss I guess

The Cowboys are the France of the NFL
-thwalls

On 3rd down, throw it to Smith.

by Willgfass on Nov 13, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions

meanwhile, AP is the worst Giants linebacker

who knew? ;)

by Step up and make big plays on Nov 14, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions

I DID!

I left my swagger in my other pants.

by HughG16 on Nov 17, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions

On the surface it looks VERY cool

and I can’t wait to dig into it more, but we’re going to need to understand the grading system some more because I don’t know about some of it. Such as: Danny Clark is the 7th best OLB in the NFL? I have some serious doubts about that.

As for Freddie, I think it was obvious that he was under-performing, but I thought he played much better last week. We’ll have to see how they grade him after that game.

by potroast on Nov 13, 2009 11:49 AM EST reply actions

i'm glad someone is paying attention LOL

but yeah, they are kind of tardy on there ranking updates. it is WAY easier to decipher this than some of the originators, such as football outsiders. i need a college refresher course to just sit down and comprehend some of that stuff.

i like metrics stats though. it really breaks down the game more than most stats do.

by wilddre22 on Nov 13, 2009 12:02 PM EST reply actions

cool site

I’ve been looking for something like that, because baseball seems to have much better sites for “data geeks”. It’s about time we get something like this for the NFL.

To be honest, I wish the game coverage could tell us more about # of snaps and substitutions, etc.. Even the ‘gamecenter’ live stat’s don’t really say anything about who’s on the field for each snap unless they are involved in the tackle, touch the ball, or commit a penalty, etc..

by M. on Nov 13, 2009 12:48 PM EST reply actions

CC and M. Johnson

Just roughly going over it, i don’t think Johnson has been underperforming to CC as the ratings suggest. I’m not making excuses for Johnson, but CC has a positive rating against the run whereas Johnson is a few points below that. Thus, CC is almost deadlast out of the league against pass coverage. But with at least 100 fewer snaps. Also, CC is tied at 15th being thrown at while giving up the third most yards against with the unfortunate crown of being #1 with allowing TD’s!

by Hootman on Nov 13, 2009 12:48 PM EST reply actions

I think that MJ's

struggles are tied to the fact he’s trying to make up for CC being a POS.

"It ain't over till its over"---

by FreeBradshaw on Nov 13, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions

Wow that was very nice

to call CC a “POS” lol
I would add “With corn husk in it”

We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.

by GAgiantfan on Nov 13, 2009 6:10 PM EST up reply actions

amazing how those things usually turn whole again right?

"It ain't over till its over"---

by FreeBradshaw on Nov 13, 2009 6:14 PM EST up reply actions

POS

“primarily observing safety,” right?

You play to win the game!

by Simms-McConkey on Nov 16, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions

Johnson

I think the thing I took from it is Johnson appears not be a huge help against the run, which kind of surprises me.

by Ed Valentine on Nov 13, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions

Billick's a moron

The receiving corps is one of the only units on the Giants that doesn’t worry me. Smith is quite possibly the best possession receiver in the NFL. Nicks has looked explosive and sure-handed the past couple of weeks (and was rookie of the month in October). Manningham has shown flashes – he clearly has a ton of talent, but not the best focus. Still, he’s a fantastic #3 receiver.

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Nov 13, 2009 12:48 PM EST reply actions

Thanks, your title summed up my thoughts too! lol

by Hootman on Nov 13, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions

I don't understand what they are looking for with this

“big play” WR.

They’re looking for a name, that is all. Sure the Giants have 3 very good WR. They have not been the problem, if anything the play of the WR this year has been a reason for any success.

"It ain't over till its over"---

by FreeBradshaw on Nov 13, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions

Also.............

we have 3 YOUNG receivers. Smith 3rd season, Manningham 2nd and Nicks 1st. This group will be a solid unit well into the next decade. I don’t know the three receiver sets for all the other teams. The future the Giants group brings I wouldn’t trade this 3some for any other 3some in the league. I’m sure there is better groups of receivers with other teams but how many of those teams have 3 receivers with only have 3, 2 and rookie experience? This group will continue to grow and improve. Eli will have a solid core of receivers for many years to come.

by FrankB0318 on Nov 13, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions

3 receivers?

the only better group I can think of is Arizona’s:
Fitzgerald, Anquan, and Breaston.

Give these few a three years and I bet they’ll be better than even them

The Cowboys are the France of the NFL
-thwalls

On 3rd down, throw it to Smith.

by Willgfass on Nov 13, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions

Minnesota has some good young WR's

Berrian, Rice & Harvin are preaty good. Harvin is going to be very very good.

by Landeta on Nov 13, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions

true

Harvin’s probably the best receiver out of this draft. That guy can do everything

The Cowboys are the France of the NFL
-thwalls

On 3rd down, throw it to Smith.

by Willgfass on Nov 13, 2009 11:15 PM EST up reply actions

On top of the fact

he said:

Well, today very few teams can get to the quarterback with just a four-man pass rush. Minnesota can do it and Dallas is showing signs of being able to do it, too.

Except Dallas plays a 3-4 defense, so they aren’t using a typical four man rush. And Brandon has looked fine the last couple weeks. Get blown out in the first half tends to reduce any RBs effectiveness.

by rzor on Nov 13, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions

Using Pro Football Focus Data

The Giants 3 WRs have the highest Overall grade. As a group they score a 12. NE next at 11.2 followed by Vikings at 9.9.

The Giants WRs pass rating 17.4. Next Vikings at 14.7 followed by Bengals at 14.

by FrankB0318 on Nov 13, 2009 2:37 PM EST reply actions

Surprising

And WR is suppose to be the weak link of the team.

by njgiant on Nov 13, 2009 2:48 PM EST up reply actions

kboss

14.5 overall
better run block rating than everyone on the o-line except o’hara
GET HIM THE BALL!!!!

by feaglesmvp on Nov 13, 2009 3:30 PM EST reply actions

And tynes sucks

near the bottom at everything.
I can’t defend him anymore

The Cowboys are the France of the NFL
-thwalls

On 3rd down, throw it to Smith.

by Willgfass on Nov 13, 2009 3:40 PM EST reply actions

Never have liked him

It’s the first kicker in a long time (other than Feeley? was it) where I feel like he’s going to miss every time.

We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.

by GAgiantfan on Nov 13, 2009 6:12 PM EST up reply actions

I've been reading the comments....

and i glanced at the stats…

no way D. Clark is our best LB…chances are he wouldn’t even start on a lot of other teams in the league.

not all that surprised that the stats are harsh on Michael Johnson….as FB pointed out earlier he has zero help back there BUT MJ was never anything to write home about either. For a SS he’s practically invisible out there….almost shocking IMO that he’s playing SS as opposed to FS.

in regards to Robbins…well, IMO he’s played better than Cofield has this year…which ain’t really saying much. Truth is the play from out DTs this year has not been great.

but how accurate are these stats…i think it said Tuck has dropped back in to coverage 1 time this year? he was guarding Gates by himself at least twice last week?!?!

"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT

by andiamo708 on Nov 13, 2009 4:50 PM EST reply actions

The stats

don’t include the San Diego game.

by Ed Valentine on Nov 13, 2009 7:15 PM EST up reply actions

that's the thing about Danny Clark

…everyone knocks him cuz they don’t notice he’s on the field.

But he’s obviously doing his part, and is solid.

Sometimes just cuz a LB is unspectacular doesn’t mean he sucks.

He’s more like a Fullback for the defense. Only the "RB"s of the defense aren’t doing their jobs well enough.

…tho of course an upgrade is needed.

"It ain't over till its over"---

by FreeBradshaw on Nov 13, 2009 7:47 PM EST up reply actions

2008

Danny Clark graded #11 overall and #6 vs run. Something is wrong with the LBs AP didn’t make any of the top-55?

by FrankB0318 on Nov 13, 2009 8:42 PM EST up reply actions

I'll have to go with Ed some on this

I agree this is interesting for discussion’s sake but beyond that I’m just not sure. It looks as if some things are skewed a little too much in areas.

We didn't even have a chance for the "perfect season", but we did have the perfect ending.

by GAgiantfan on Nov 13, 2009 6:13 PM EST reply actions

Here's my issue with Pro Football Focus

If they’re using replays from the TV games it’s impossible to know which safeties are on the field. On some plays they’re never in the camera view. I think the same can be applied to WRs. How can they effectively grade Dbacks coverage ability?

by FrankB0318 on Nov 13, 2009 8:33 PM EST reply actions

Brian Billick Has not watched 1 Giant game this year

He’s just stating issues about the Giants he knew going into the season and is discussing issues that have been overhyped by the media and obvious durring the season.

WR’s are fine and in fact by some point next year they will be a big strength of the team. BJ is fine Eli and coaches have been forcing deep throws which has limited his touches.

Preceived stregnths D-line and O-line have not played as well as expected. D-Tackles have stunk and been injured which has allowed teams to run the ball on the Giants for the first time since I don’t really know. Pass rush has been affected by this and pass rushers have not played as well.

Secondary injuries have hurt a lot with A.Ross and Philips out have really hurt especailly KP. JR gambled on Philips not getting hurt by not resigning Butler, drafting a saftey, or signing a quality FA. JR lost big time.

Bottom line the Interior lines of the Giants have not played as expected. Injuries, off season surgery, and age have played a roll. JR knew the issues and thats why he signed a 26 year old Chris Canty and drafted Beaty and did not trade the picks for a vetern WR (which by the looks of things seems like a nice choice). All of the injuries you did not want to happen this year have including lingering injuries to the best offensive player Eli and best defensive player Tuck. O-line an D-line play win in this league.

This is why I can’t watch ESPN, NFL network, read SI or any other idiotic media outlets all you get is snap judgements from guys that watch less football than any of us. This blog is the best because all of you guys know this team and have better insight than the clowns on TV or on the internet. I absoulotley hate NFL coverage. It’s all about saying or doing something to get ratings instead of objective anlaysis. I wish I hated football so I did’nt have to watch it. I miss the old NFL today with Jimmy the Greek.

Now that I’m done with that rant I think if the Giants get healthy after they bye they could definetley go 5-2. If they stop the run the D will improve big time but the lack of KP will hurt. Like Enie P said run the ball move the sticks with short passes. SD loss hurt and could be a bad sign that this team forgot how to win but I think it means they are close to getting back on track. Even if they still struggle and miss the playoff they will get better and finish strong. JR will need to make a few offseason moves to re-tool. I’m sure all of the “experts” will pick them to stink next year but if they are relatively healthy next year they will be a force again and all of the experts will be like “How did that happen?” Freaking idoits, injuries dictate what you do in this league, the healthiest & deepest team wins in January not the best team. Look at our G-Men better in 08 than 07 for most of the year but banged up and thin at WR & D-line in 08. In 07 they had key injuries, Ward, Schockey, & Kiwi but they had depth in Bradsahw, Boss, Smith, and depth at D-End. Thesse guys are such idiots it’s a waste of time to read it.

by Landeta on Nov 13, 2009 9:06 PM EST reply actions

amen

before I started coming to Big Blue View, I thought some national commentators knew more than us. Now I realize, it’s just like picking winners… the accuracy fo what they say is pretty much equal or less than many here. And National commentators know squat about the Giants compared to daily readers of this site.

You play to win the game!

by Simms-McConkey on Nov 16, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions