'Kudos & Wet Willies,' Steve Smith edition
by Ed Valentine on Oct 5, 2009 7:08 AM EDT
in Kudos & Wet Willies
145 comments
Ah, another happy Monday in the Land of the 4-0 New York Giants. Not much to complain about today, unless you are a really, really pessimistic never-going-to-be-happy kind of fan. That said, let's get on to the weekly 'Kudos & Wet Willies.'
Kudos to ...
- Steve Smith: This Smith is pretty darn good. How good? Historically good. He has 34 catches in four games which is the most receptions through four games in franchise history. I think we know who the Giants' No. 1 guy is now. Check out what Don Banks of SI.com wrote about Smith Sunday night. Maybe until further notice, Carolina's Steve Smith should be identified as the "other Steve Smith,'' because the Giants' Steve Smith certainly doesn't deserve an afterthought designation. New York's Smith caught 11 more passes for 134 yards and a pair of touchdowns in the Giants' 27-16 win at Kansas City, and now has a team-leading 34 receptions for 411 yards and four touchdowns this season. Carolina's Smith, he of the Pro Bowl pedigree, has yet to make much impact for the winless Panthers. Smith has caught just 15 passes for 190 yards, and is still waiting for his first score of the season. My take: Smith is an impossible cover on short to intermediate routes, and it's obvious Eli Manning loves throwing him the ball.
- Eli Manning: It is becoming routine, but this was another terrific game for Manning. He was 20-for-34 for 292 yards and three touchdowns. He fumbled once and was intercepted once, but the pick was clearly Mario Manningham's fault. The ball hit him right in the hands, and he was open. An NFL receiver needs to make that play. Eli has a career-best 63.2 percent completion rate and a 104 QB rating after four games. Now, we just have to cross our fingers that his heel injury isn't serious.
- Brandon Jacobs and Ahmad Bradshaw: The Giants' running backs pretty much did what they wanted against the Chiefs defense. The longest run of the day was a 17-yarder by Jacobs, but the Giants moved the chains pretty much at will with the running game Sunday. There should not be any complaints this week about Jacobs not running hard enough.
- Hakeem Nicks: Hey, if you are only going to make one catch you might as well snag a screen pass, make a bunch of guys miss and go 54 yards to the house. That's maximizing your opportunities.
- Bryan Kehl: The second-year linebacker made two game-changing plays on special teams. First, he recovered a fumble on the opening kickoff. Then, he alertly scrambled to grab the onside kick the Chiefs opened the second half with. You could make an argument that those were the two most important plays in the game.
- Michael Boley: I listened to most of the second half while sitting at my son's soccer game, and I kept hearing Boley's name again and again. Five tackles, a sack and the Carl Banks linebacking stamp of approval. That's good enough for me.
- Antonio Pierce: Seven tackles, a forced fumble, and a stellar job -- as usual -- getting his teammates into the proper positions to make plays.
- C.C. Brown: Six tackles and a forced fumble. At least for one week, Kenny Phillips could not have played any better.
- The defensive line: Hard to single out anyone here, and the entire group played well. The Giants had five sacks, and Justin Tuck, Osi Umenyiora, Rocky Bernard and Mathias Kiwanuka all got one. The Chiefs averaged just 3.1 yards per play, and that's largely a credit to the play of the front four.
- Kevin Gilbride: I have to give Gilbride some props. I loved the mix of short and long passes, the use of screens, a perfectly-timed direct snap to Ahmad Bradshaw (funny because KG got killed here at BBV the last time he called that play), five balls completed to tight ends, an effective running attack. Despite the Giants going just 1-for-4 in the red zone, I thought KG had a good day.
Wet Willies to ...
Yes, I have to give out a couple of these. You guys probably know who they are going to but I will list them anyway.
- Lawrence Tynes: You know that squirming you do before each Tynes field goal? It's not hemorrhoids. That itchy, uncomfortable feeling you get when he trots on the field? It's not a rash. It's Lawrence Tynes Anxiety Disorder. Just when I was thinking Tynes had found, at least temporarily, a cure he pushed a very makeable 38-yard field goal just right. So, our bouts with Lawrence Tynes Anxiety Disorder will continue.
- Mario Manningham: Whatever nickname you want to use for Manningham, he certainly was not Super on Sunday. Yes, he made a juggling 43-yard catch Sunday (I'm starting to wonder if those kind of 'watch Mario chase the bouncing ball' catches will become a Sunday routine. He dropped at least three balls, though, including one that became an interception. Toughest day of the season thus far for the talented second-year wide receiver.
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Missed this one
I had to choose between this game or next week’s to miss for wedding meetings. I figured this was going to be a blowout /boring and my best man is a Raiders fan; so I want to watch that game and mock him furiously during it.
By the time I got in front of the TV it was wrapped up in the 3rd quarter so my dad and I watched the Red zone channel. The RZ channel might be the single greatest thing to happen to football since the forward pass was invented. Non stop football no commercials no downtime. It’s pretty friggin sweet.
by Woogie526 on Oct 5, 2009 7:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Congratulations on your upcoming Wedding Woogie
I hope she is a Giants fan!..Mine is a Cowboy fan..I had to quietly enjoy the Broncos stuffing them yesterday!!…Another one for the good guys!!..We are in good shape at 4-0!!
by Bobbiblue on Oct 5, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
Nov 1 is coming quickly.
I thought the wedding planner was going to have a shit fit when I told him the game had to be on at the bar during the cocktail hour.
She’s a Giants fan, recent convert her dad didn’t really follow football growingup.
by Woogie526 on Oct 5, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL!!!
Just make sure you guys go thru all the dancing jazz, the garter jazz, the toasting jazz the cake cutting jazz..but hopefully you can have that wedding planner place a TV somewhere where you guys can keep the corner of your eye on it!! You can work on your future Father-in-Law after the wedding to make him a Giants fan, afterall he might as well..I’m sure the games will be on when he visits!!!
by Bobbiblue on Oct 5, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After the cocktail hour the bar closes
But I’ll sneak my dad the key to the comp suite that has a TV.
by Woogie526 on Oct 5, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
any prospective wives should know:
Football first, interpersonal obligations second
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Oct 5, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To her credit
She offered to make one of the meetings for next sunday at 10 so i wouldn’t miss any football. But it made more sense to get it done yesterday.
by Woogie526 on Oct 5, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unheralded but
How about a Kudos for the OL – they opened the running lanes and only allowed a sack of Manning (not sure if Carr was to blame for his sack!).
Yes I agree KG gets one as well – he is forcing other teams to defend the pass which sets up the running game – and he sticks to it whilst it is working
by G Fan in England on Oct 5, 2009 7:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Boss & Diehl
No Kudos for Boss getting up through an injury to spike that ball or his work blocking all day? Or a Wet Willy for Diehl who went from stopping Ware to getting beat all day long?
Good game, though our fourth quarter defense was becoming quite disgusting. We were blitzing nine on critical fourth downs!
by RolloT on Oct 5, 2009 7:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I never knew...
one sack and FF by Tamba Hali against Diehl = “beat all day”. Diehl was Diehl yesterday aside from that one play.
What the f$%k is the internet?
by FreeBradshaw on Oct 5, 2009 7:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boss
does deserve some credit. Or, really, his teammates for going over and yanking him off the ground so he could get lined up.
by Ed Valentine on Oct 5, 2009 7:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was key
not to be insensitive… he’s writhing on the ground and his guys are like “Get up. Suck it up for 5 seconds”
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Oct 5, 2009 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It also would've been a 10 second run-off of the clock too, if the trainers came out!
by Hootman on Oct 5, 2009 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Give those props to Coughlin
Clearly signs of good coaching.
by njgiant on Oct 5, 2009 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes that was something else..
His teamates pulling him up, and he willed himself back to line up..an amazing moment right there..that Boss is one tough gutsy player..There was no way I thought that he would get back up..unbelievable!
by Bobbiblue on Oct 5, 2009 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Little harsh on HAM on the INT.....
yea, he could have and probably should have caught it, but plenty of times I’ve seen that excat play pan out that way. THe ball was thrown hard, HAM was going one way, the ball behind him. Could have caught it yea, but it would have been a tough catch and Eli deserves his share of the blame on it.
The other ones, I don’t know what was going on, so it was a bad day for HAM.
Tynes pissed me off on the miss, it kinda made the game a bit interesting when the Cheifs decided to get all those garbage points.
Other than that, excellent game all around. Eli better not be hurt, or else I’m going broke buying Whiskey by the Liter every week….I don’t want David Carr the #1 ever. He’d probably be OK getting reps with the first unit, but lets not have that happen.
Nice to see the D-Line FEED again. They were scaring herds of QB’s into dumb decisions, but finally they moved in for the kill.
Michael Boley is a hell of a player. All over the field.
What the f$%k is the internet?
by FreeBradshaw on Oct 5, 2009 7:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not harsh at all
Yes, the ball was not perfectly thrown. But, that is a ball that has to be caught by an NFL receiver. And it wasn’t his only drop of the day.
by Ed Valentine on Oct 5, 2009 7:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess so..
and given the rest of his day, it wasn’t the only one.
I just think I’ve seen more “NFL WR” miss that catch than I’ve seen come down with it. I’ve even seen Wes Welker drop that one more than a few times, no one doubts his ability.
Its on HAM, but I’d hope that Eli knows too that when you throw a rocket one way and a WR is going the other, that’s a real tough catch.
What the f$%k is the internet?
by FreeBradshaw on Oct 5, 2009 7:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course
I think the timing and communication between Eli and Manningham is just going to get better. It is a dynamic combination.
by Ed Valentine on Oct 5, 2009 7:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right on both counts, Ed.
in terms of finding fault for those unsuccessful attempts yesterday, I’d call it 60-40, Manningham-Eli; maybe 65-35. You can’t let Eli of the hook totally. Then again, Eli deserves the kudos for his overall game. Ham’s Wet Willie is well-earned as well.
I’ve always felt the Giants gave up too much to get Eli. We could have kept the draft picks and taken Roethlisberger or Rivers. The strength of that opinion has weakened considerably, almost to the point where I reject it totally. If Eli keeps playing the way he has been, I’ll just have to man up and acknowledge the genius what was perhaps Accorsi’s last major decision. Wouldn’t it be nice if Eli realizes Accorsi’s dream of grabbing for the Giants the second coming of Johnny U?
by blue gonz on Oct 5, 2009 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excuse me. . .
Accorsi DID take rivers, then got rid of him for Eli. genius!!!
by NYer in a strange land on Oct 5, 2009 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
okay...
cool, now I can see your rudeness is a trend.
In Reese We Trust
by jmark82 on Oct 5, 2009 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you mistake biting sarcasm & rapier sharp wit for rudeness.
Rudeness? “you ain’t seen nothin’ yet!”
by NYer in a strange land on Oct 5, 2009 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe we could squash this
if “genius” referred sincerely to Accorsi, and not sarcastically to blue gonz. that’s how I read it. Awesome. Thanks.
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Oct 5, 2009 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't clearly expressed,
but that’s how I interpreted it as well. So no harm intended, no foul. No sarcasm, no wit in that particular post either. Perhaps a bent? In what inevitable degrees does bent become inclination, inclination tendency, tendency penchant, penchant disposition, disposition fate? All I know is that of those phenomena known as muliply transitive permutation groups, only four exist.
Yes, Ed, I’m into the scotch a little early today.
by blue gonz on Oct 5, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hope its a good Single Malt. .
enjoy
by NYer in a strange land on Oct 5, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear that a lot too
whenever I see the Chargers game, it always seems the announcers of those games can’t help themselves (like the Plax thing they still love…). I’m sure we’ll get battered with it the week of the Chargers game again too.
I know Rivers is very good. Him and Eli (and Big Ben too) are pretty much equal. They are asked to do different things in their O, but largely those 3 are making a case for one of the best QB draft classes in history.
As for the overall trade? Merriman has been more of a headache these past few years and simply not productive when on the field that his early success is pretty much irrelevant at this point…he seems shot. The other pick, Nate Kaeding, is give or take. Many hate Tynes and would want Kaeiding instead, but I’m sure many would hate him too after he missed a few kicks.
Also, Rivers probably would have been a ticking time bomb in NY. Eli is in the end the perfect personality for NY (that said, Big Ben would have fit well too…) so even right now, the Giants definitely got the best of that trade.
What the f$%k is the internet?
by FreeBradshaw on Oct 5, 2009 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing is with that whole discussion
Is that the Giants took Rivers only because they had that trade in the works. If the Giants didn’t have a chance at getting Eli, then they would have taken Big Ben (Accorsi has said so after the fact). They really didn’t like Rivers. I think in that case the Giants might have been better off with those extra picks AND Big Ben, but at this point I really don’t care. The Giants are a great team and we have our QB that I love. Its water under the bridge.
by potroast on Oct 5, 2009 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly right, pot
Accorsi wanted Eli and did what he had to do to get him.
by blue gonz on Oct 5, 2009 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One more note
in favor of Accorsi is that San Diego wanted Osi as part of that trade, and Accorsi wouldn’t make that deal. I believe the pick that was used on Merriman would have been for Osi instead.
by rzor on Oct 5, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that's right
In the middle of the Giants draft clock ticking the Chargers asked for Osi again (after Accorsi told them several times no) and Accorsi told them flatly that Osi was a deal breaker and Chargers relented. So he wasn’t willing to give up everything.
by potroast on Oct 5, 2009 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Osi was more JR's guy
He had to argue himself blue in the face to get him.
by blue gonz on Oct 5, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was at the Jesse Palmer game
week 17 of the 2003 season, Osi was an absolute beast. He had a few sacks, a forced fumble, a fumble returned for a TD. I don’t think Accorsi would have traded him for Joe Montana circa 1984 after that game
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
by cjmulrain on Oct 5, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Eli is the more cerebral of the group
but as far as Big Ben fitting in NY. I don’t think he would fair too well had he been involved with a rape case in NY. We saw what happened with Plax. Ben is lucky he’s in a small town that will believe the earth is flat if Ben said it was.
by Major on Oct 5, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what saved ernie's ass
about that trade besides Eli’s play was how he drafted in 05. With no first round pick and only four picks overall he got Jacobs, Webster and Tuck, so it dimished how much they gave up draft wise to get Eli and it built the foundation of this current team.
by Landeta on Oct 5, 2009 12:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Quick analogy: My dad always said that a great deal of baseball web gems wouldn’t be so dramatic if the outfielder got a better break on the ball to make a routine play.
That’s my impression of Manningham. He makes one self-inflicted circus catch and drops everything else thrown his way. Put some stickum on those gloves! He looks up field way too quickly. Pop Warner lesson: Make the catch first, then turn up field.
by edzilla on Oct 5, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It hit him in the hands..
he should have caught it..no excuse for that..and he has a tendency to bobble / juggle with alot of the catches he does make…He’ll be fine after more game experience..He needs to think catch first, run second..
by Bobbiblue on Oct 5, 2009 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I remember correctly
A certain #17 bobbled a lot of catches also.
by njgiant on Oct 5, 2009 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes because he never practiced
Mario practices..I feel he will be just fine. He’s a hell of alot faster than Plax too.
by Bobbiblue on Oct 5, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice win
What a play by Nicks … I can’t wait to see more!
by potroast on Oct 5, 2009 7:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah that was nice to see..
We all knew Nicks was going to be good..Now we’re starting to see it.
by Bobbiblue on Oct 5, 2009 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Manningham
Definitely deserves the willie for a bad case of the dropsies yesterday, but that’s gonna happen from time to time, I suppose. However, on the pick, I do think that ball was a bit behind him. Should an NFL WR make that catch? Yep, but Eli could have put it a foot further to his left too, making it easier.
by TNYFBG on Oct 5, 2009 7:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
it just looked like...
Manningham was trying to make plays before he had true possession of the ball. I certainly hope that this was the odd game for him, not the game against Dallas. He looks very promising. He’s just got to look those passes in.
In Reese We Trust
by jmark82 on Oct 5, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really didn't want to comment on Ham
But on those drops, i instantly thought he was trying to body-catch those balls?! If the ball is coming in and hitting your pads first, then there is a likely chance it’s going to bounce out and away! Versus having the ball hit your hands and smoothly bringing it in!
I also thought… ah great, an incompletion to redemption to interception, shaking my head!
by Hootman on Oct 5, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Secondary
I think the whole secondary deserves a kudo in general. Teams are averaging less than 150 yds passing a game. Sure, three of those offenses stink, but you can only play the teams on the schedule… hope we’re ready for NO and we get through Oakland with minimal effort and injuries.
by TNYFBG on Oct 5, 2009 7:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Your right..
The secondary, considering all the injuries is playing great football the first 4 games.
by Bobbiblue on Oct 5, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big credit goes to
the DL who are getting great pressure all game long. This is because of the return of Osi and the pick up of Bernard and Canty giving a good rotation and keeping players fresh.
This means less time the DB’s need to cover and therefore limits the big plays it gives up due to the QB throwing away or dumping off.
After all, you would not say our SB winning secondary was the best in the world, but they looked it because of what Tuck, Strahan and Osi did on the night.
by G Fan in England on Oct 5, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
we haven’t really seen a sackfest ‘09, but the bottom line is we’re getting good rpessure constantly with a 4-man rush. This is freeing our linebackers & secondary to stop the run & pass effectively. And when they DO blitz, that QB is getting hit.
It’s not the flashiest D, but it’s been effective against shitty opponents. We’ll see if this formula will hold against top competition
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Oct 5, 2009 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed..they are applying the pressure
Constant pressure..the sacks will come.
by Bobbiblue on Oct 5, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
100% agree
I’m not one of those who gets caught up with sack numbers, the DLine has absolutely forced quick drops and slants, swings, screens, etc. I just wanted to point out that Webster has asserted himself as a shutdown corner who can be put on an island with the other team’s ‘A’ receiver for the most part. Thomas has proven to be starting caliber and guys like Bruce Johnson and CC Brown have stepped up (I was calling for Brown’s cut in preseason, I’ll admit). Can’t wait to get Sintim back into the fold and hopefully have him replace Clark by year’s end.
by TNYFBG on Oct 5, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I volunteer to be the "Nattering Nabob of Negativity." . .
garbage time TDs. unforgivable!
BS stooopid penalties!! – six (6) goal-to-go situations in a row!
no Killer Instinct! – i want my shutouts!!
other than that, not bad.
by NYer in a strange land on Oct 5, 2009 7:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
C'mon, NYer
Gotta be happy at 4-0. No game is ever going to be 100% perfect, but we should be feeling really good today. Played two weak teams in a row and did exactly what should be done, winning pretty handily both times.
by Ed Valentine on Oct 5, 2009 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's wrong with 100%perfect?
But I am happy (very happy) with FOUR & OH!!!
by NYer in a strange land on Oct 5, 2009 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
I can’t remember the last time I’ve been so relaxed watching games… the opponents score and I’m like, eh, whatever! Doesn’t matter! Garbage time!
On the other hand, I was a bit upset seeing Jacobs & Bradshaw still in the game on our final possessions…. I was hoping for a 2nd episode of the Carr-Gartrell show … hope to see it in the 4th Q next week
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Oct 5, 2009 8:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too
This game was so relaxing that I actually sat and watched Tynes kicks..Normally I walk away when he comes on the field..Yesterday, I just stayed and watched him miss..I didn’t even twist my back and flinch!..It was just: “Yep missed another one”
by Bobbiblue on Oct 5, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m with you a little bit here. Way too many penalties, and the Chiefs had no business still being in this game late in the day. A bounce here, a bounce there, and we’re sweating out the ending.
Blueshirt Banter: Covering the New York Rangers
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Oct 5, 2009 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think i know what your saying
And i know how i feel about garbage time. I don’t want to sound nit-picky, but just like the Bucs game, and this game, the Giants D did whatever they wanted at will for 90% of the game. It’s the other 10% that get’s to me. Against the Bucs, when Josh Johnson came in, he moved the ball. Against the Chiefs, their 4th downs were converted.
We have to put them out of their misery. Don’t let them have the feeling of, well, we did some things! When in fact, we only allowed them to. I hate the bend but don’t break crap!
by Hootman on Oct 5, 2009 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I will have to agree here a little
Look I am 37 now, I have seen my good and bad share of the Giants. And before the 18-1 Super Bowl I would been very very happy with that win. But with the force we’ve become, I don’t think we should let TD’s in garbage time. We practically “allow them” to hang around, we let them practice their plays. I do love the fact that we do not run up the score “a la patriots”, that is not classy, kill the clock do not humilliate opponents. But DO NOT Allow those kind of plays. I agree with NYer, six goal to go situations should not have happened.
But other than that I am happy camper. PS and if Eli is not completely healthy next sunday, I would rather rest him. I think Carr can manage the Raiders in the Meadowlands
by Bajaserge on Oct 5, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nicks TD
I normally would have been hugely excited for that one, but after seeing Eli throw the ball to him on that play, I knew he was hurt enough that this will be a problem (just hope the severity is not too high). Nicks scoring was great to see though, especially that move at the 5.
I wonder how the Barden pushers are accepting the fact he sat out inactive while healthy. Dude clearly has some work to do yet.
by brisulph on Oct 5, 2009 7:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Derek Hagan saw the field too...
I think until further notice, this season is gonna look a lot like HAM’s rookie season. Tho as long as he stays healthy, I think he’ll get some more chances than HAM did last year.
I don’t want this to happen, but again like Manningham, the only real way that a healthy Barden is gonna see extended time is with an injury to the top guys (like what’s happened with Hixon).
What the f$%k is the internet?
by FreeBradshaw on Oct 5, 2009 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes Eli's heel..
Hopefully is not severe..Phil’s heel injury put him away for the season..but it was encouraging to see Eli walking around okay on the sidelines..I think they just wanted to get him out of the game as a precaution so he would not worsen it.
by Bobbiblue on Oct 5, 2009 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If there were ever a game to sit Eli
This game against Oakland would be the one. I’m sure he’s going to start, because that’s what Ironmen do and I’m sure he takes pride in his “start streak”, but no need to risk any further damage.
by njgiant on Oct 5, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
with you
in theory, as I’ve been with the large contingent of “rest Tuck et al” crowd. However, if the injury is very slight and low risk for aggravation, Eli starts. Not to preserve “the streak” but that’s his mentality, to play. Also, starting Carr would make this game waaaay more interesting than any of us want.
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Oct 5, 2009 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hold on
I am flying in from England to watch this game so please keep your thoughts about Carr starting to yourself – a seven hour flight thinking DC will start may make me miss the plane on purpose!
Let’s hope it is a minor injury and that the overall depth (as alluded to by Peter King in his MMQB) will be enough to get us past Oakland without the need for late game heroics by either Eli or Tynes
by G Fan in England on Oct 5, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we don't really need Eli next week
we have the best QB in the NFL on our side. JaMarcus Russell
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
by cjmulrain on Oct 5, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope so
The two previous games I have been to were a 27-0 loss and a 13-10 win so I would be more than happy with a win by a TD or more!
by G Fan in England on Oct 5, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what is the WR order now?
I would say
1. Smith
2. Manningham
3. Nicks
4. Hixon – when fit – better as a KR and PR
5. Moss
6. Hagan
7. Barden
It says something about this group has come along that we can ease Nicks in gently and Barden slowly and still have an effective passing game.
by G Fan in England on Oct 5, 2009 8:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So many options. . .
that they can’t get the ball to all of them!
i think the “secret” plan is to get the opposing D so concerned about both the passing game setting up the running game (& vice versa), that, late in the game, when we need a knout-out, we slip in an “unheralded” WR, have Eli look for single coverage, and BOOM !!!
last week, Moss.
this week, Nicks.
next week . . . . won’t need one.
Nawlins, BARDEN!!!
that’s my story. stickin’ wit’ it.
by NYer in a strange land on Oct 5, 2009 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sounds good...
it’s true. But I hope Eli is healthy. When he threw that TD screen to Nicks, he didn’t put a lick of weight on that foot.
In Reese We Trust
by jmark82 on Oct 5, 2009 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah..Eli didn't even move..that's when I got worried
We just have to hope it’s not serious..I’m glad they got him out of there.
by Bobbiblue on Oct 5, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
injuries shouldn't affect jobs
with an old-school coach like Coughlin. I think TC has it:
Smith, Hixon, Manningham, Nicks, Hagan, Moss, Barden
I’d have it: Smith, Nicks, Manningham, Hixon (also returning kickoffs), Hagan, Barden, Moss
And i think a lot of us hope that within 3-4 years, Barden is the deep man, Nicks the slash man, and Smith the slot man (who will continue to lead the team in rec’s like Wes Welker)
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Oct 5, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So can I ask
where is the Ham in your order for 3 years time?
by G Fan in England on Oct 5, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
honestly,
I love what he did against Dallas, but I’m not on the Hamwagon. If Smith, Nicks, Hixon, and Barden — with Hagan & Moss in the wings — all show top-flite potential, I’d be looking to trade Ham for a good draft pick or two. Now I shall prepare to be crucified by the BBV community.
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Oct 5, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are entitled
to your view and i will not crucify you!
I would rather trade Moss as I think Mario has shown more.
At the end of the day we should be happy that we have good players that we are prepared to trade away as they just happen to be not good enough for us!
by G Fan in England on Oct 5, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lmfao trade moss
for moss you will get a sack of potatoes and whatevers left of brett farves arm in 2012
by karamjitm9090 on Oct 5, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you kiddin me?
The way America goes through french fries and especially in this economy…we’d be lucky to get an empty sack for Moss.
"We'll show up tomorrow and do the same thing we try to do every day, kick Pedroia's ass in cribbage and try and win a baseball game."
by tito (eight and oh) on Oct 5, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No disrespect Moss..
That was an awesome catch last Sunday, but you need to pick up the slack on specials teams, dawg.
"We'll show up tomorrow and do the same thing we try to do every day, kick Pedroia's ass in cribbage and try and win a baseball game."
by tito (eight and oh) on Oct 5, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not completely sold on Manningham
so I would not be sad if he was gone at some point. I would be sad a bit I guess… as I would miss posting “HAM!” all the time.
by brisulph on Oct 5, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You guy's should be ashamed
All this talk about trading Ham. Yeah, then what? We’ll be down to chopped liver?!
by Hootman on Oct 5, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not how TC has it
If you remember, the rotation before Nicks got hurt was him, Hixon, and Smith. Manningham was the one who moved up due to injuries, not Nicks. Putting aside yesterday’s game, I would say Manningham has been far superior to Hixon. I’m hoping that Super Mario starts catching the ball again and Hixon can return to what he does best, returning kicks.
by hopeforthefuture3 on Oct 5, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Hixon has had his chance to start and for whatever reason could not keep it.
Ho does however have a role on the team as our best returner.
by G Fan in England on Oct 5, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't remember it that way
Smith & Hixon were locks as returning starters.
The three spot was open and coming out of camp Manningham got the nod, close in order with Nicks. He got more throws from Eli in preseason and more opportunities during the time Nicks was also available. Obviously Barden is the low-man in TC’s eyes as shown yesterday.
Don’t get me wrong, I think there’s more potential in Nicks than Ham or Hixon long-term and I loved Hixon as a KR. I disagree but when Hixon is healthy, he’s back in at starter. Nicks still needs time, pay some dues, get some reps. Same with Ham.
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Oct 5, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TC has tough call
Does TC stick with his depth chart or does he go with performance/hot hand.
I would go with the later approach and ride the hot streak as long as I could.
When Hixon returns we will know…
by G Fan in England on Oct 5, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't get a bit of Stephen Baker
when you watch Manningham? Manningham is faster and Baker may have better hands but the swift and shifty quality in a receiver is valuable. Manningham shakes defenders out of their shoes, comes back on the ball and makes catches in traffic. Hixon is more a deep threat. I would like to see Smith, Nicks and Manningham as the top 3.
by Major on Oct 5, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would also like that
I just don’t think we’re there yet, in Coughlin’s eyes. And down the road I hope Barden becomes a superstar, in which case, Manningham could be a marketable commodity.
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Oct 5, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It takes time for Coughlin to be convinced I guess
but we are also forgetting one Travis Beckum who had a heck of a catch sunday and has terrific ability.
by Major on Oct 5, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about as a return man?
They tossed it around in preseason, but as slippery as he is, he might prove a viable weapon. Hixon’s injury might make them apprehensive to put him back there.
by YankeeDudeL on Oct 5, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It will be interesting to see how it plays out
Your argument makes sense. So does FB’s.. I think we can all agree that Hix is a better return man than Moss.
by blue gonz on Oct 5, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would like to see more of Barden
Especially in the red zone offense..He is going to minimally draw double coverage..and our red zone success will increase substantially.
by Bobbiblue on Oct 5, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think they're playing Barden close to the chest?
Ed seemed to think he performed very well in camp, but they haven’t given him much of an opportunity in games, even in preseason. They not wanting anyone to have a look at him until they start playing more meaningful games?
by YankeeDudeL on Oct 5, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sounds plausible
no sense opening up the playbook too soon. . .
by NYer in a strange land on Oct 5, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have my own theory why Barden hasn't played more
With Nicks being arguably the best NFL-ready WR coming out of the draft, Barden did come from a small school. Barden probably has not seen anything close to what creative DC’s can have for him at this level. So for what he has done prior to live bullets (the games that count) TC and Co. might want to make sure he (Barden) recognizes what D’s are doing and what Eli wants to do.
Whether it’s man-to-man, press coverage, zone, where safeties are etc… this dictates how Eli may check-off on a certain play. Most importantly, where Eli expects his WR’s to be! It would be devastating if Barden were to run a certain route after Eli checking off, and it goes for a pick-6! It happens to veterans, but Barden is a rookie. No need to rush him until he firmly grasps the intricacies of everything.
Barden’s time will come, i just have a feeling the staff wants to make sure he has the neccessary time to succeed!
by Hootman on Oct 5, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm wondering
If a healthy Nicks in uniform had a little to do with Manningham’s drops. I wonder if the thought of giving up snaps to Nicks is in the back of his head. I do believe if healthy, Nicks will crack the starting line up before the year is over.
by njgiant on Oct 5, 2009 8:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It was probably just coincidence
Ham having the dropsies and Nicks being in there. Besides, Nicks is more NFL-ready than Barden (a healthy scratch) and Nicks getting any playing time now is important. Barden’s time will come, even though that has nothing to do with Hams dropsies! lol
by Hootman on Oct 5, 2009 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big shout out to Nicks
That Nicks play was huge. Eli was hurt, and needed to get off the field. The team needed another score to ice the win. Nicks delivered, plus sent a message to the team that .
That was a huge play.
by Wide_right on Oct 5, 2009 8:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hakeem Nicks is the real deal.
Kid has it all – great size, (very) good speed, HUGE f’kotckta hands, willingness to go over the middle, toughness, MOVES!
by the time the team gets to the post-season, watch out.
by NYer in a strange land on Oct 5, 2009 9:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Big game from Boley
He really was flying around out there and making plays. I don’t know how he was doing in pass coverage, but he seemed to play the run pretty well. The KC offense looked helpless for most of the game, like the little brother being held down by the older brother. The Giants defense did everything but pull out the “quit hittin’ yourself” play.
by rzor on Oct 5, 2009 9:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
His pass coverage looked
pretty good. I think he broke up two sure completions.
by blue gonz on Oct 5, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
one with his head
You play to win the game!
by Simms-McConkey on Oct 5, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes that was funny!!
“That’s using your head”
by Bobbiblue on Oct 5, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe Carr
Deserves a “Wet Willy”..He looked terrible when he came in to spell Eli…It’s like he didn’t prepare last week..Just awful..If he wants to land a starting job next year, he better be ready and take advantage of the opportunities he gets in the spotlight when they come.
by Bobbiblue on Oct 5, 2009 9:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Carr's next job...QB for the Oakland Raiders.
by njgiant on Oct 5, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd almost believe that
if Carr could throw inaccurately 60 yards downfield. Instead, he can only throw inaccurately 20-30 yards downfield.
by rzor on Oct 5, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he didn't prepare...
…maybe he was the scout team QB all week. But I bet he prepares this week!
by hopeforthefuture3 on Oct 5, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HN
Sounds like the beginning of the flu designation but is apt as he flew by a lot of defenders.
by 7mike on Oct 5, 2009 10:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
In Tynes' defense
the wind was blowing straight right on the….no, never mind. I can’t do it. Tynes sucks
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
by cjmulrain on Oct 5, 2009 10:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This team is impressive
For all the years I’ve been a (serious) fan, a lot of years, I can’t remember a time when you could just about automatically count on a win or at least a solid chance to win coming from behind with short clock time, or feel confident that when someone went down there was a more than competent replacement ready to be plugged in week in and week out. That’s saying a lot, considering the great teams that we had (in my era of watching) from the 80’s and the early 90’s and the talented players on those teams.
I’ve sat through too many heart attack finishes, a lot that didn’t go our way, when they seemed to consistently find a way to let beaten opponents off the hook. Or the maddening habit of letdowns after successes and playing down to the opponent’s talent level. The lack of a killer instinct. All this now topped off with a solid consistency in all phases of play, preparation, focus and coaching.
I was a little concerned with the losses of Toomer and Plaxico but I never dreamed we would end up with what we have. Steve Smith is, hell, I can’t find a decent word to describe how good he is. The moves I’ve seen Nicks and Manningham put on db’s in YAC situations are amazing! A dependable and classy big target TE in Boss…Ahmad Bradshaw…Jacobs…Antonio effin Pierce….and Manning. Our solid as stone offensive line. Dang! Somebody slap me ’cause i must be dreaming! hehehe
by blooz on Oct 5, 2009 11:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
about Smith
the rest of the league sees him as coming out of nowhere but I knew a while ago that he was solid. His play in the 07 playoffs and especially down the stretch in the superbowl was impressive and gave a good idea of what he would mean to the team in the future. It’s just that I don’t know of anyone who could’ve predicted this kind of explosive output from him once he wasn’t working under Plax’s and Amani’s shadows.
by blooz on Oct 5, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
his 3rd down conversion on the penultimate play of the winning drive
is one of the most underrated plays in SB history. 3rd and 11, he catches the ball, contorts his body to turn upfield without stepping out of bounds, and just sneaks past the first down marker. Who knows what would have happened if they had to convert a 4th and short, instead of getting a fresh set of downs.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
by cjmulrain on Oct 5, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was one defining play
that stood out to me in a drive, really a final quarter, that was full of defining plays. That play showed a mental maturity in as tense a situation as you could have that kinda foreshadowed the professionalism and precision we’re seeing from him now.
by blooz on Oct 5, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and I think
it’s a top down mentality that starts with Eli’s cool headed play in do or die situations. These guys never seem to get rattled or seem out of control.
by blooz on Oct 5, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
He had several key catches in the game, but that was the biggest.
During his rookie year there were lots of jokes about the G’s drafting him because of his name, and it wasn’t like he would rival the real Steve Smith. Then in the offseason, lots of comments that the G’s had no legit top WR’s.
Smith must be loving this right now.
by Wide_right on Oct 5, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's more impressive
Wasn’t Smith the second fiddle @ USC? If i remember correctly, the Panther’s drafted Dewayne Jarrett of the same year, and Keyshawn Johnson (still with Car.) who was commentating for ESPN said that was a good pick for them. Shortly afterwards, Johnson was released/cut! Lol Well, that hasn’t gone over to well!
Just goes to tell you how special Smith is!
by Hootman on Oct 5, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
Jarrett and Smith were kind of a 1a and 1b (actually, 2a and 2b, Reggie Bush was option numero uno), but Jarrett was considered the better pro prospect because of his size.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
by cjmulrain on Oct 5, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He obviously made it a point to be more aware of the down marker...
I remember him coming up a yard short on a big third down in Green Bay two weeks before.
"We'll show up tomorrow and do the same thing we try to do every day, kick Pedroia's ass in cribbage and try and win a baseball game."
by tito (eight and oh) on Oct 5, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not as bad as Moss. In one of the Giants bad games that year (Minnesota?) Moss caught a catch on 3rd and long a yard past the line marker, ran backwards costing them the 1st down. After that the blowout was on, and Moss got benched. In all honesty, it seemed like it was on that one play that Smith moved ahead of Moss on the depth chart.
by Wide_right on Oct 5, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep remember that.
Amazing how you can look at one play and see how things could be so drastically different if they went just a little bit the other way…
"We'll show up tomorrow and do the same thing we try to do every day, kick Pedroia's ass in cribbage and try and win a baseball game."
by tito (eight and oh) on Oct 5, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Moss did that at least once
if not twice last season, too. It’s my number 1 complaint with him
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
by cjmulrain on Oct 5, 2009 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You guys are all right
This group of receivers we have is mind-boggling awesome!..and our defense when everybody gets healthy is equally awesome!..It is like we have two NFL teams packed into one..I have never seen this before..It’s amazing…The young guys still have alot to learn, but look at the talent we have..awesome!
by Bobbiblue on Oct 5, 2009 12:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's awesome...
It is like we have two NFL teams packed into one..
Lol, it sorta looks that way doesn’t it! Across the board, a player goes down, here comes an adequate replacement. I guess the really unkown, would be OL! Oh, and QB, even though Carr is skittish from his days in Houston, we should try and find out more about Bomar next week! lol
by Hootman on Oct 5, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and the good thing
is that other teams figure we are peaking, but we’re not, obviously not everybody will be 100% healthy at the same time, but when most of them are, most likely the defense is healthy enough, then we will be very scary
by Bajaserge on Oct 5, 2009 1:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The depth of this team
is giving me warm fuzzies all week long, more impressive than the WRs is how the secondary has evolved, that’s always been our weak spot, I’ll take depth over having one shutdown corner any day. think about the way things were 5 years ago with allen and peterson, one of them always out and the replacement getting toasted repeatedly, that’s big reason why we not letting opponents out of the bag, webster may be all-pro, everyone gets burned occasionally, but the secondary takes good angles, knows the cover scheme, and doesn’t blow tackles.
Conan!, What is good in Football?!
Daa.... to run between the tackles,
To drive the linebackers before you,
And to hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders.
by The Pale Scot on Oct 5, 2009 1:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm so excited for the G-men this season!
I love it 4 and 0 baby!!!
Sara McCoy
by Sara McCoy on Oct 5, 2009 1:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
the Giants winning
is becoming as routine as Lawrence Tynes being a part of the “Wet Willies” category.
i may sound like a broken-record, but the guy will cost the Giants a big game this season.
there seems to be a variety of Tynes’ supporters on this site. i wonder if everyone will still be on board if he continues to miss a makeable field goal in each and every game the Giants play.
by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Oct 5, 2009 1:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Until he costs us a game.
I’ve got his back.
"We'll show up tomorrow and do the same thing we try to do every day, kick Pedroia's ass in cribbage and try and win a baseball game."
by tito (eight and oh) on Oct 5, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I couldnt have said it better myself
oops I crapped my pants!
by TheWenz on Oct 5, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm just praying that game
isn’t in late January.
by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Oct 5, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I absolutely agree with you
Tynes will definitely cost us a game..if he doesn’t get his act together..You can’t rely on the guy..and normally that spells costing us big time in the playoffs..He is not lining up properly..We should nickname him “Mr Shank”. I’d have cut him last year..We need to find a guy that can be reliable, unfortunately there slim pickings out there..so we’re stuck.
by Bobbiblue on Oct 5, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
King MMQB
has a lot of praise for the Giants this week, he even put a nice pick of Osi sacking cassel. Also, a nice mention about Bradshaw.
Peter King is actually bashing Fox for showing the top 10 farve plays and chides them for liking them too much. I bet this guy wishes he had two mouths so he could suck off farve and the patriots at the same time, what a hypocrite.
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG MEN!!!!
oops I crapped my pants!
by TheWenz on Oct 5, 2009 2:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Jerry Reese
Is going to have to really work hard to keep these guys..He has assembled two teams as I said earlier into one..Hopefully, these players will want to be part of the dance..For years to come. We have an incredible amount of talent here…It is going to be difficul to keep them all.
by Bobbiblue on Oct 5, 2009 2:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep,
if this keeps going, I’m going to build a shrine and start a cult, the “Reecians”
Conan!, What is good in Football?!
Daa.... to run between the tackles,
To drive the linebackers before you,
And to hear the lamentations of the cheerleaders.
by The Pale Scot on Oct 5, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He might not have to work that hard...
After the 2010 season.
No cap, no problem.
"We'll show up tomorrow and do the same thing we try to do every day, kick Pedroia's ass in cribbage and try and win a baseball game."
by tito (eight and oh) on Oct 5, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tynes
That’s my kicker man.
That’s my teammate. tears well up
by wangstu13 on Oct 5, 2009 3:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
honestly
the giants are soo stacked. remember the year the pistons were straight bustin that ass? 4 out of the 5 starters made the all star game? the case can be made that tayshaun prince should have been chosen as well.
i feel we are in the same situation. our team has alot of pro bowl caliber players along with alot of pro bowl caliber potential. it just sucks that the almighty dollar is king. we would be stupid to think that our secondary wont be getting huge deals from other teams. we give ryan grant to the packers. we give dereck ward to the bucs. warner was in the super bowl last year. everything we touch becomes gold lol
by karamjitm9090 on Oct 5, 2009 3:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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