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The Difference Between Championship-Caliber Football (the New York Giants) and Perpetual Mediocrity (the Washington Redskins)

Your GM. Seems really obvious, and thats because it is. Every bad and mediocre team's fans want its head coaches to be fired. The only two teams I believe have a case of poor coaching and great talent are Dallas and San Diego--- otherwise ownership and the front office are squarely to blame for poor performance. Zorn could be a bad coach, but Snyder and Cerrato are the true, long-term issues in Washington which directly cause and sustain mediocrity. Let me give you a five-year history of two teams that took completely different tracks based on ownership and general management:

To end the '03 season, the Giants and Redskins respectively had 4-12 and 5-11 records and we both chased the Eagles for the NFC East title. In the ensuing 5 seasons, the Giants reached the postseason each year, winning 2 NFC east titles, a #1 NFC seeding, and a Super Bowl victory (victory dance.... ok, done). The Redskins, on the other hand, were simply mediocre. Not quite bad, not quite good, with a couple losing records, a couple wild-card berths, and one postseason victory over Tampa Bay. What happened? Lets take a look at the drafts shall we...

New York Giants Drafting. 04-09

04: Eli Manning- Round 1, Pick 1, trade w/ the Chargers obviously. Chris Snee- Round 2, '04 also: (Torbor, Gibril Wilson)

05: Corey Webster- Round 2, '05 Justin Tuck- Round 3, '05 Brandon Jacobs- Round 4, '05 (also: James Butler, Ryan Grant)

06: Mathias Kiwanuka- Round 1, '06, Barry Cofield- Round 4, '06

And now, while the head coach and QB remained the same, a new GM, a guy by the name of Jerry Reese, takes over the chains in January '07. In April '07, the Giants add these guys to the bunch.

07: Aaron Ross, Round 1 Steve Smith, Round 2 Jay Alford, Round 3 Zak DeOssie, Round 4 (haven't seen his LB skills developed yet, but a pro bowl long snapper nonetheless) Kevin Boss, Round 5 Michael Johnson & Ahmad Bradshaw- Round 7

This draft class propelled us to a Super Bowl title, after which we experienced the loss of Pro Bowl DE and TE Shockey and Strahan. The following draft class contributed to a 12-4 #1 NFC 2008 Campaign.

08: Kenny Phillips, Round 1-- everyone knows how much I love this guy, future Pro-Bowler IMO. Terell Thomas, Round 2, Mario Manningham, Round 3, Bryan Kehl, Round 4 and Jonathan Goff, Round 5- like DeOssie, excellent special teams LBs whos LB skills are not there yet, Lawrence Tynes- Acquired in a trade for 7th round pick

09:  way to early to judge so I will omit all but Hakeem Nicks, Round 1, and Bruce Johnson, UDFA, who have seen extensive playing time and have performed well.

Ok, so?

Maybe we wouldn't be a successful team without Tom Coughlin, but without a whiz GM and talented scouts to procure all this talent for us, we would surely be nowhere, much like the Washington Redskins.

Instead, ,we see a trend for supplementing the current teams of the time with talent as well as ensuring success in the future. In these 5 draft classes, the Giants have around 25 notable players spread on both offense and defense:

Starting CBs, Starting FS/SS, Starting DE and DT, Starting WRs and #3 WR, Starting TE, Starting G, K, and obviously QB. Of these players, Corey Webster, Kenny Phillips, Justin Tuck, Mathias Kiwanuka (although not a starter), Steve Smith, Chris Snee, and Eli Manning all play at a Pro-Bowl level, with Tuck, Snee and Manning all having been elected to pro bowls.

My main point:

Because of excellent general management and an eye for talent, this team has withstood the losses of Pro Bowl DE Strahan, Pro Bowl RB Tiki Barber, Pro Bowl TE Jeremy Shockey, and its all-time leading receiver Amani Toomer and elite wideout Plaxico Burress and has earned a playoff berth from the 2005 season onwards with 2 division titles, a #1 NFC seeding, and a Super Bowl title to boot. Through these 5 drafts, this team has remained talented and well-rounded at all positions and has thus been transformed from that 4-12 team into a perpetual winner with a winning mentality and culture.

Meanwhile, over in Washington....

Since '04, the Redskins mildly successful to excellent draft picks have been:

Sean Taylor- RIP, Chris CooleyCarlos Rogers, Jason Campbell, Rocky McIntosh, Reed Doughty, LaRon Landry, and of the '08 draft class Davis, Thomas, and Kelley (Rounds 1-3) have all done virtually nothing while Chad Rinehart, G has played well but Chris Horton (S) has been recently demoted from starter in favor of Reed Doughty, and the best 1st Round Skin pick since Sean Taylor, Brian Orakpo this year.

These draft selections are very telling: These generously 'good' draft choices amount to 12 players, meaning the majority of the Redskins draft choices have been busts or non-factors, while the strengths of their drafts have been on the defensive side of the ball, where they are among the top in the NFL. Sean Taylor (again, RIP), even Carlos Rogers, underrated Rocky McIntosh and Reed Doughty, LaRon Landry, Horton, and Orakpo are all good to excellent defensive players. The defense, even under the poor coaching of DC Greg Blache plays well.

On the offensive side of the ball, with the exception of Rinehart and Cooley, in the past 5 years the Redskins have not added a good or great offensive player. Jason Campbell is decent at the QB position but has suffered from the Redskins' drafting ineptitude at the positions of RB and the entire O-Line. Now they face the issues of an aging and falling apart  o-line, an over-the-hill RB who is no longer nearly productive enough to sustain a successful running game, and there are no viable replacements for them on the Redskins roster. At the WR position, they have old trusty ARE and Santana Moss with young receivers in Kelly, Thomas, and Davis (TE) who could possibly be more talented then any of us know yet-- much like we did not know with our own group of WRs. However, any potential that group may have does not change the gravely serious issue of their abysmal running game that has no clear future on the roster and their aged and falling apart O-line which now stands to lose Pro Bowl OT Chris Samuels, now 33 years old, to injury-induced retirement. Washington has no young talent at the position to replace him and are now forced to use Pro Bowl TE Chris Cooley, their best offensive weapon, increasingly as a blocker. This situation perfectly illustrates the bottom line problem of this team, which is that poor general management has failed to fill this team's needs through the draft and have made them into a perpetually mediocre and seemingly worsening team that is incapable of contending in the NFL, while the exact opposite is true for our New York Giants.

Poll
How would you rate the Washington Redskins' drafts from 2004 to 2009?
A
1 votes
B
1 votes
C
22 votes
D
28 votes
F
19 votes

71 votes | Poll has closed

FanPosts are written by community members. This is simply a way for community members to express opinions too long to be contained in a comment.

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Awesome assessment and 100% on the money. I often argue with a friend who’s a $kin$ fan and he doesn’t get it. I will dutifully forward him this link for his morning edification.

by lboogie25 on Oct 22, 2009 8:20 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

agree on the skins, disagree on the giants

The skins have tried the free-agency route that has turned their roster into a debacle.

However, the giants having Eli Manning makes everything else much easier. You don’t have to draft a QB, thus draft picks and, more importantly, cap space is saved. He is the cornerstone of the team that makes all other personnel decisions easier.

Ich bin ein Berliner--JFK

by HudBaby on Oct 27, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aside from Nicks...

from the limited time I saw Will Beatty, he looks like an eventual starting OT for the Gints.

Beckum? Good hands and think he’ll be a real weapon as the season and his career progresses.

Sintim and Barden obviously only preseason warriors.

But overall seems to be another solid class with the potential, with Nicks, to be incredible.

Redskins definitely rely on the big names in the draft and FA, and it fails them.

No one hailed the aquisitions of O’Hara, Snee and McKenzie, nor of course Seubert and 5th rounder Dave Diehl. Turned out well right?

Giants, and Eagles for that matter, do it the right way.

FA is good. Obviously, Chris Canty is a big money FA. So far, absolute bust cuz he hasn’t played. I do think the jury’s out tho, lets see what he does when he plays

..."I predict...the Giants are #1"...

...."That's not a prediction meatman, that's a FACT OF LIFE"!.

---Carl

by FreeBradshaw on Oct 22, 2009 8:35 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Are we in agreement?

That Ramses is our 2010 project? ‘09 is not going to be the year we see him shine, barring multiple injuries at that position. it’s going to be a good problem in ’10 i think as well, because now we are very deep at that position. Nicks has starter potential next year, but if The other Steve Smith and “The Man” (i refuse freebrad to say ham) keep up on there current pace in which they each can hit a G in receiving yardage, how do we bench either next year for Nicks? And then, how can we bench Nicks for Barden? It will be a good problem to have next year. Can anyone say 4 receiver sets?

As for Sintim, i do believe we will see him later this season as we are thin at OLB and he’s been injured on and off. if he can get over it, then i do believe sintim will factor into our current playoff run(at DE too)

by wilddre22 on Oct 22, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It OK...

not everyone likes HAM….

anywho, Nicks I think everyone can see when the guy gets his hands on the rock, he’s the most physically gifted WR on the team. Yea, Barden may show something when he plays…and Sinorice Moss is gifted as well (he’s just a FOOL), but overall, smarts, hands, strength, speed, breakaway ability…Nicks has it all

I think its a good problem to have.

On Barden, yea he’s this year’s Manningham. We all seem to feel there’s something there. I don’t believe Barden’s injured, just a healthy scratch. So maybe he eventually gets worked in a la Manningham. He would have been used more last season I’d think if he wasn’t hurt.

The Giants seem to keep 4 WR in the game plan each week. So, possibly as Hixon again proves how valuable he is as a kick returner, then Barden sees the field (tho..Derek Hagan seems to have him beat out so far…)

..."I predict...the Giants are #1"...

...."That's not a prediction meatman, that's a FACT OF LIFE"!.

---Carl

by FreeBradshaw on Oct 22, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

i was about to say that

i’ve seen Hagan out there on kickoffs and punts. its safe to say Ramses will be ahead of Hagan and Moss in the depth come next year.

maybe ramses needs to learn how to tackle on kickoffs. he doesn’t seem to do so bad in Madden ’10!

LOL

by wilddre22 on Oct 22, 2009 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL!

nice…

In Madden, I wound up with 90 catches, 1500 yards and 16 TD’s …for Hakeem Nicks. He’s simply unstoppable in the red zone. Hmmmm……..

I’ve seen Ramses get plastered on a kickoff in Game one and a punt a few games after that.

Maybe Coughlin took him out cuz he was scared someone would kill Pharaoh Barden?

..."I predict...the Giants are #1"...

...."That's not a prediction meatman, that's a FACT OF LIFE"!.

---Carl

by FreeBradshaw on Oct 23, 2009 7:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i haven't even been able to get into my franchise mode

been too busy online. yeah ramses the great needs to shed a few more tackles before going kamikaze down the field on kickoffs.

by wilddre22 on Oct 27, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow

you just ripped that entire organization to shreds!

by wakkawakka on Oct 22, 2009 8:43 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Great post mahmoodzaky

In Reese we trust.

Rec’d

"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E

by tito (eight and oh) on Oct 22, 2009 9:21 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice post

This post can perfectly illustrate the power of stability from the top, and right down to the players. We all know how Snyder operates, he wants to get the headlines and he not afraid to throw around money. I would dare say making money is his first priority, which clearly doesn’t make sense if your not surrounding yourself with the right football people. It shows too, with the product they have now!

Coincidentally, fans over on Hogs Haven want to boycott whatever the Redskins offer. Whether it’s the ticket prices, the strict policies at Fed Ex Field or just the overall feel for the actual team. They’re not having fun, and to this point, they don’t think it’s worth it!

by Hootman on Oct 22, 2009 10:35 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Sad if I was a Redskins fan

I don’t need to state the obvious, but the Redskins are not a well run organization. I also hate to play the role of Monday Morning Quarterback, but I can’t help but to think back to the first week of the season, reading BBV articles leading up to the week 1 game vs. the Giants. It seemed that many fans and bloggers felt confident that the Redskins were going to be the ‘sleeper’ team in the NFC east (Ken from Hogs Haven had them at 10-6). Obviously we have the luxury of hindsight, but I still can’t help but feel bad for any disilussioned individual that thinks a team led by Jason Campbell is going to emerge out of the NFC East anywhere but at the bottom. With all due respect he is not a good quarterback, and regardless of what team he was on and what devision he was in he’d find himself spooning Dan Snyder in the basement. It’s funny to think that the alternative to Jim Zorn at the time was Jim Fassell. I almost don’t blame Snyder.

by pataroons on Oct 23, 2009 12:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the recs everyone

Someone asked me why the Redskins blow, so I broke it down… lol

When I was looking at the 2nd round of the 2008 draft, something else jumped out at me… The Skins had picks 34, 48, 51 in that draft. They used them on Devin Thomas, Malcom Kelley, and Fred Davis (WR, WR, TE)… even though they obviously need OL and RBs… but anyway, like I said in the post, who knows, maybe those guys could emerge as talented players. But OK.. picks 34, 48, 51. Look at this:

Pick 33: Donnie Avery

-skins pick Devin Thomas-

Pick 42: Eddie Royal
Pick 44: Matt Forte

-skins pick Fred Davis-

Pick 49: DeSean Jackson

-skins pick Malcolm Kelly-

Pick 55: Ray Rice

.. Thomas, Davis and Kelly combined career receiving… 309 YDs.

"Manning.... lobbs it! Burress, alone! TOUCHDOOOWN NEW YORK!"

by mahmoodzaky on Oct 23, 2009 2:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

didnt mean to cross those out.

"Manning.... lobbs it! Burress, alone! TOUCHDOOOWN NEW YORK!"

by mahmoodzaky on Oct 23, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

its Ok...

the point was better proved with that.

Yet, at the time, no one could have said that guys like Kelly, Thomas or Davis were necessarily bad picks.

All three seemed to have a 1st round grade…so if JR chose them, I would have been fine with it.

Its coaching that has done them in.

That’s the great thing that JR has to work with. He has great coaches who he knows not only will coach up any player, also they work with him to see who they want in the first place.

I know this goes on with the Eagles too, Andy Reid and staff are a great identifiers and coaches of talent.

…the Redskins and Cowboys? They can find talent, yet…..they just don’t seem to get ‘it’.

Something tells me its cuz of the dictatorships their owners run.

Hard for the coaches, even inexperienced ones like Zorn and past failures like Wade Phillips, to get players who they want when their owners are dictators.

We need to thank the Mara’s and Tisches (eagles…Lurie) that they are merely fans of the game, not wannabe GM’s.

..."I predict...the Giants are #1"...

...."That's not a prediction meatman, that's a FACT OF LIFE"!.

---Carl

by FreeBradshaw on Oct 23, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its going to be comical

When the Raiders blow the Redskins out

by wakkawakka on Oct 23, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that'd be great

Although a true gift would be if they blew out the cowboys. They get ’em on thanksgiving, and we get them the week after

Oakland did beat them in the preseason

by Willgfass on Oct 23, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the Cowboys

aren’t great at identifying talent. Bill Parcells was great at identifying talent. He’s gone, and there’s been a noticeable talent drain each year since.

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Oct 24, 2009 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

can you believe that before the Giants Superbowl run

TC was in doubt as our head coach???

It would save the Giants Defence a lot of time if QBs just stayed down!

by ChuckyofNorris on Oct 24, 2009 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

touche

It would save the Giants Defence a lot of time if QBs just stayed down!

by ChuckyofNorris on Oct 24, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yea, good article

But die-hard Skins fans have known this for years. Only w/ this season has ESPN jumped on the band-wagon and really exposed. Cerrato has been a hated man in DC even before Gibbs came back…says something when Schottenheimer fired Cerrato and he couldn’t get a job anywhere til Snyder fired Marty and brough Vinny back.

As for Sean Taylor, Rocky, Campbell, Carlos….those were all Gibbs and Gregg Williams picks. So the years the Skins DID do well….Snyder and Cerrato had no control. Story is Gibbs wanted to draft Kellen Winslow (we needed a TE bad) and Gregg Williams stood up on top of the war room table and demanded they take Sean Taylor. Awesome stuff. It took 3 years to clean up Spurrier’s mess, and it took “Snyderatto” 1 year to put it back.

by KevinE on Oct 24, 2009 7:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I feel bad for you guys

I really do. As a Mets fan, I know what it’s like to have an incompetent ownership/front office who is willing to spend a lot of money, but just does it wrongly. In a lot of ways, I’d prefer to have a cheap ass owner, so at least expectations wouldn’t get raised.

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Oct 26, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah me too

I’m a Mets and Redskins fan so I have it doubly bad. And yeah like Kevin said we all have hated Cerrato and Snyder for a long time and this is nothing new. I don’t think any of us are delusional we just build up hope at the beginning of the season just to be let down. But like I said we hate Cerrato and know our team has been ruined.

by VTkillabee on Nov 9, 2009 11:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Great, great post

Well written and researched. I take my hat off to you, sir!

It seems obvious to me, as a fan, that the draft is where you build a team. It’s the cheapest way to do it, in the long run. If you have a front office worth a damn, you end up getting guys that carry your team to greatness for peanuts. How people like Dan Snyder and Jerry Jones don’t< see that, i’ll never know.

I’ll echo a couple of other people and say i really feel sorry for the redskins. Terrible owner, terrible front office. Bad team

by catsmeat84 on Oct 27, 2009 9:23 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

All True ( from a skins fan)

Yes it is all painfully true that our owner & GM are both nitwits, however this is not exactly headline news.

by ENsDad27 on Oct 27, 2009 7:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks everyone.

Yea, ENS, I know its not headline news. Its obvious to everyone… I prefaced the entry by saying that. I wanted to show how it evolved that the Skins and Giants were similar teams in ‘03 and that in 5 seasons, we went completely opposite directions. And that’s, as you know, thanks to Cerrato and Snyder whiffing on both picking talent and on addressing the areas of actual need for the team before they became glaring problems that keep the team from being viable contenders, like the OL is now for you. Through those years, the Skins didn’t tank and become an awful team as a result… but they stayed just OK, played mediocre football, and are now inevitably getting worse from bad management and neglect.

To use that same position as a comparison of how much different the two are, we have the best O-line in the league currently.. and even if you don’t want to concede that, one of the best OLs in the league inarguably… but we still used a high second-round pick on an OT. Next year we’ll draft an O lineman.. guard or center.. the result will be pretty smooth transitioning from a currently extremely talented OL to a hopefully just as talented or better OL (but even just good OL applies) with depth, youth, and talent. We draft insurance and the eventual replacements for our older linemen (O’Hara, Seubert, McKenzie)… instead of letting them turn 34 and just crossing our fingers they don’t get injured.

Similar situation with our RBs… one of the top RB tandems in the league w/ Jacobs & Bradshaw, plus Danny Ware, and yet we still drafted Andre Brown, and picked up Gartrell Johnson off waivers. The Redskins on the other hand have not only let the O-line situation implode but have watched Portis age and become less and less effective…. yet they havent drafted a RB since Ladell Betts. Unbelievable.

"Manning.... lobbs it! Burress, alone! TOUCHDOOOWN NEW YORK!"

by mahmoodzaky on Oct 29, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it is unbelievable

but that is what happens when you have as you said “nitwits” in the front office. Our whole tradition is built off of “THE HOGS” so you would think u wouldn’t have to be that smart to know how to build a team but Snyder is a douche so there you go. yeah and this was a nice article

by VTkillabee on Nov 9, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs


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