ESPN reporting a rumor that Toomer wants out of NY.
by Fester McDougal on Jan 28, 2009 4:22 PM EST
55 comments
No details but it sounds like he would like a fresh start...
He has been a gentleman his entire career and the NYG will miss his quiet competent leadership. The young guys could sure use him as a role model.
I wish him well if it does not work out in NY as he deserves what ever favorable deal he can get.
FanPosts are written by community members. This is simply a way for community members to express opinions too long to be contained in a comment.
0 recs |
55 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
This was in the sporting news as well
Hes upset with his diminished role down the stretch and who could blame him-on the surface it wouldve seemed he was need more.
So the best WR in the history of the franchise will be gone-thats gotta be a loss in the lockeroom as much as anywhere
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Actually this is starting to not look so good ...
check it out a full interview transcript on MG’s blog:
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2009/01/full_transcript_of_amani_toome.html#more
Looks like he’s calling out the coaching without officially calling them out. He’s upset that his role was diminished and that it might have been directed from TC. He sounds pretty hurt and I agree with him somewhat that maybe things would have turned out differently if they didn’t ignore him.
I don't believe
that it’s really a case of ignoring him. In the two Eagles games Eli was having a bad game, no matter who he was throwing to. The truth is, Amani has clearly lost a step or two. Even on the two deep-ish balls he caught this year (fourth down against the Steelers and the first drive against the Redskins) he didn’t really get any separation and the completions were results of perfect throws by Eli. He’s been a great Giant and I hope this doesn’t affect his relationship with the team long term. I know he has absolutely nothing to do with Michigan and is bitter towards them.
i love Amani
i’m not really sure why he’s so bitter. it’s not like the Giants would intentionally try to phase him out of the offense.
it would pain me to see him in another uniform. he should start and end his career with this team – just like fellow legend WR Stephen Baker.
by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Jan 28, 2009 5:32 PM EST reply actions
He seems to be saying exactly that
That they were intentionally phasing him out. I guess we need some more evidence, but I don’t think we should just shrug off what he’s saying as bitter either. He’s never been one to talk out like this (I really don’t know about his relationship with Michigan), so I think this might have legs.
the reason why i'm skeptical
is why would a 12-win division champ that is trying to defend their Super Bowl championship intentionally phase their #2 WR out of the offense?
maybe in Dallas that would happen, but the Giants just don’t do stuff like that.
by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Jan 28, 2009 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with that
I think they just went with what they thought was best. I don’t think there is any agenda like that with the Giants.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 28, 2009 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
How much gas does Amani have left in his tank?
The coaching staff might have a better idea than he does. Plenty of athletes don’t know when to hang up their jocks—Brett Favre, Willie Mays, Joe Louis—the list goes on and on. Of course, some know better than the coaches (Kurt Warner, for example.) I don’t think a team defending its SB would be experimenting with younger players to see what they can do. That’s what training camp is for. If indeed they gameplanned away from Amani, they did so because they thought they had a better chance of winning by doing so.
Possibly?
The decision was that if they were going to repeat, it was going to be on the shoulders of Hixon, Smith, and Boss
You could disagree with the decision, but it sounds like that in the opinion of the coaching staff and the QB’s Toomer didn’t have enough gas left in the tank to carry them the rest of the way, So, the choice they made (and you could agree or disagree with the choice) was to give Hixon and Smith the chance to make plays. They make the plays, the Gmen go on, They don’t make the plays, well, we know what happened.
Overall, I don’t think it was that unreasonable. Toomer was a great player. And he still has ability, but he isn’t the guy he was. He will probably land somewhere, and I hope he does well, but he won’t be the number one guy.
I agree. pot, it might.
If so, it’s distressing, not just from Amani’s point of view, but for what it might say about internal team dynamics.
I have to agree with Potroast
Amani’s never been one to talk like this
He must have contracted this bad attitude fron sitting next to Plax in the WR meetings or else our offensive coordinator would have to be a Total Idiot not to use the teams all-time leading…
OH, WAIT!!!!!
Seriously
How long is Coughlin going to stand by Gilbride and tolerate the lack of production in the “GREEN ZONE”
Green zone?? That’s gotta be a Gilbride term. He’s so freaking stupid he doesn’t even know what color it is, never mind what do when you get there!!!
I’m still so pissed…
(what a waste of a great season)
Well it was gonna have to happen at some point
But I always figured he’d play out the string with the Giants, he can still serve a purpose, but I dont know where he thinks he’s gonna go and be a top 2 option, it aint happening.
He can still be a valuable 3rd down receiver/mentor, in any case, I’d hate to see it end like this
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
he just cant...
I dont see how Toomer can possibly go to another team. He is a giant and hes always gonna be a giant. If he moves to another team I wont remember him for ditching us though, I’m still gonna think of him as one of us. Just like Brett is not a Jets player.
i hate the thought of seeing “the well dressed” amani toomer with someone else, but i agree with some of the other comments that he’s clearly lost a step or two. what now? well, retire his number, let steve smith start, and let mario manningham make some plays from the slot. oh yeah, and give up the draft picks to get boldin from the cards.
as for the idea of the giants intentionally phasing him out, is it possible they just decided that he was only their 3rd or 4th best option, after smith, hixon, and boss? if it was an organizational decision, it doesn’t necessarily mean it was malicious. maybe just poorly handled internally, or something that he was unwilling to admit.
The most successful franchises in the league
realize that the status quo is a dangerous strategy. In our hearts we all know the odds are that it’s time to honorably let him go. Reese has to play the percentages. If Toomer can help a struggling offense with his experience more power to him. Change is part of the game.
Now I’m going to open up another can of worms by suggesting that the Giants might want to use a high pick this year for quarterback in this year’s draft. Carr may soon be gone, and we have no other viable backup. Also, this is the time to start looking for the next guy to lead the team three or four years from now, not when we are so desperate we have to give away the farm for some journeyman.
by giant fan since 57 on Jan 29, 2009 6:06 AM EST reply actions
Can of worms
Three or four years? Eli is 28. He has 10 years or more left in the league provided he doesn’t suffer a devastating injury. Way too soon to even start thinking about who will be next.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 29, 2009 7:17 AM EST up reply actions
We can't just automatically assume Eli will play for 10 more years.
What if the Patriots never had a backup named Brady for when Bledsoe got hurt unexpededly? I’m only pointing out that if Carr leaves, we don’t have a backup that we can trust. And it is never too early to think about who is next. One of the reasons the 49’rs managed to stay on top for so long was the fact that Steve Young was waiting in the wings.
by giant fan since 57 on Jan 29, 2009 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
For now
all the Giants need to worry about is having a solid backup. They seem to have it in David Carr, if they can keep him. Andre Woodson might develop into that. We will have to see.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 29, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
I like Carr and he seems to be the perfect backup..
But unless we have signed him to a new contract can’t he just take a better offer this year? I thought he was signed for just one year. It’s an uncomfortbale feeling that we might have to rely on Woodson, who may yet be good but is certainly not ready to step in now.
by giant fan since 57 on Jan 30, 2009 5:55 AM EST up reply actions
Carr
He only signed a 1 year deal and I’m sure he’s going to go where he might have a shot at starting. He’ll never get that shot in NY unless Eli gets hurt. And then Eli will get his job back when he’s healthy.
I think your point is valid, but the Giants just have much bigger needs in the draft right now. Maybe they’ll get lucky and sign another Carr type and Woodson will develop.
"And then Eli will get his job back when he’s healthy."
What if Eli goes down in the first quarter of the first game of the season, the Giants go 13-3 and Carr throws 30 TD’s and is Super Bowl MVP?
Woodson
finished the season on the practice squad. they kept releasing him and bringing him back, which tells you the Giant are the only team that thinks he has any kind of pro potential.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 30, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
BOTTOM LINE IS...
Amani thinks he has a lot of game left and apparently our coaching staff disagrees. He has the right to be upset and disappointed and our coaching staff has the right to make the decision to move on. Amani has always been a class act and will leave with his head held high regardless of how the media spins it. It will be sad to see our longest tenured Giant and all time leading receiver go, but I wish him all the best.
My thought exactly, Ed
57, do I detect in you disappointment that Eli will probably never be the HOF type of QB Accorsi though he was getting? Ernie was great, but he was obssessed with finding the next Johnny U. He thought he had his man in Brown. At least Eli’s no Brown.
Resign yourself to his long term presence with the Giants. He’s a solid QB, good enough to have taken us to an SB win. Maybe more. If so, he might be an HOFer after all.
I had to search my soul for a whole day before I answered this, George.
I admit it…I’m disapointed. It drives me crazy that he is one of the highest paid players at his position and yet he….
1. Is so innacurate that many pray for Plaxico to return to give him a bigger margin of error in his throws.
2. Telegraphs his throws too often.
3. Is basically a statue in the pocket. Except for one famous play, has never scrambled effectively.
4. Struggles too much when the running game falters. (I know, I know, there are times when he doesn’t but he is so damn inconsistant)
5. Very seldom does he show the kind of team leadership that I would like to see.
6. His progression has been helter skelter…he hasn’t improved from week to week. It’s more like one step forward and two steps back.
For all these reasons I think Eli will never be in the HOF, and for that reason I believe there is no harm in trying to find the next Steve Young through the draft. And…I am convinced that Reese will draft a quarterback if he finds the right guy.
Bottom line is, don’t ever be satisfied. Always look to improve.
I leave you with this thought. Our opponents constantly try to stop the run and put the game in Eli’s hands. They do that because he hasn’t proven to be able to consistantly rise to the occasion. If we had Tom Brady or Peyton do you think that would be their strategy? That’s why we should never stop looking for a quarterback until we have the best we can get.
I have no problem with using what you’ve got. I am simply making the statement that we should be attempting to improve our performance at every position trough the draft. If we could draft a quarterback that cowas good enough to win the job away from Eli wouldn’t that be a good thing?
by giant fan since 57 on Jan 30, 2009 6:27 AM EST reply actions
I understand where you are coming from, BUT...
Eli is a WINNER. Call me crazy but I will stand by this; With 2 minutes or less to go in the 4th quarter and we need a touchdown there is no one else in the league I would want under center more than Eli Manning. I remember his first season when he took over around Week 7 and we were already out of the playoff hunt. He was shaky at best in these games but I will never forget the last game of the season when he engineered a winning TD drive against the Cowboys. Although that may have seemed like a meaningless win, it gave Eli the confidence to lead his team to the playoffs every season after that. When we were down 14-10 in the Super Bowl last year there was not a shred of doubt in my mind that Eli would get us 6.
He will definitely never win any stlye points, he will probably continue to have mental lapses and struggle with the wind at the swamp but he is our guy. Giants football has never been about having a flashy QB who throws for 400yds a game anyway. Defense and the running game is what its really all about, but believe me we have not seen the last of Eli’s heroics.
I'd call it a Mexican standoff between
you and 57
His heroics
is exactly what was so enticing to Accorsi. He saw these traits as exactly what was needed in NY and he was right.
Yes, it would
My point is that the Giants have made a committment to Eli. Your litany is valid to a certain extent(perhaps a bit exaggerated in spots.) I’ve often wondered if instead of trading up for Eli we should have settled for Rivers or Roethsberger.
To get a QB from the draft to back up Eli in the way you suggest (basically, to compete for the starting job) we’re talking about a first rounder, probably a trade up. That’s just not going to happen. We can’t afford the money such a high pick would command and we have far greater immediate needs (LB and WR) .
Besides QB controversies are tough on a team. We’ve seen them too often with the Giants. At least Eli’s at least several cuts above guys like Brown and Graham, etc.
I suspect that JR will continue to come up with QB draft picks in later rounds, guys like Woodson who at the very least need seasoning.
It was courageous of you to lay out so stark a case against Eli. Those BBVers who share you point of view are I believe reluctant to do so because they recognize the team’s long term committment to our QB. They try to accentuate the positive and cling to the belief that Eli’s a work in progress who will continually improve.
BTW, if the Giants win one or two more SBs with Eli at the helm, he’ll be a shoo-in for the HOF no matter how many deficits he may or may not have or how severe they may or may not be.
I think
it’ll take at least two more SB titles for Eli, unless he gets drastically better as a regular season QB. Nobody’s banging down the HOF door for Jim Plunkett, after all.
I’m cautiously on 57’s side in this. I like Eli, but I see far too many flaws in his game from week-to-week to count on him as our QB of the next decade. I don’t know if he’s even better than Kerry Collins was when he was our starter, and we saw how easily he was ditched when Eli came along. I don’t think we should waste a high-round pick on a QB, but I wouldn’t mind seeing us re-sign David Carr, and either continue to groom Woodson or try to find another diamond-in-the-rough in the later rounds of the draft. Remember, Patriots fans didn’t think Drew Bledsoe needed to be replaced going into the 2001 season either.
Well, Plunkett had some horrible years.
He was brilliant leading his teams to two SBs. He’s the only QB with 2 appearqnces who isn’t in the HOF (I think.)
Wow, you and 57 are really telling it as you see it re Eli. I get the feeling that most BBVers (if not most Giants fans) cut Eli some slack because they believe he’ll be with the team his whole career.
Not better than Collins? That should get some vehement response. I’ve toyed the same thought myself. One thing for sure, Kerry’s arm is a whole lot better than Eli’s. In fact, Kerry might have (or at least had) the best arm in the league.
Collins...
I would take Eli over Collins anyday. His success this year was amazing but Jeff Fisher used him the way we were never able to when Kerry played for us. I doubt he will have as good a year if he starts next season.
You may be surprised that I would take Eli over Ben as well, but I think they are very close in talent, I just prefer Eli.
I hate to admit it because he seems like such a jerk, but Rivers has more talent than Eli, though his attitude turns me off.
Jints14 made the assertion that he would rather have Eli in the last two minutes of a game we needed a touchdown in than anyone else in the league. While Eli has certainly manufactured some miracles, he isn’t in the same league as Brady or Peyton at least not in my opinion.
I really hesitated to brling back the “Eli” thing and waited a whole day to think it over before answering as I did. I’m not sure I want to see it start all over again about whether Eli is good enough. I do believe he is good enough. He proved that last year.
But there is a part of me that wants to grab that special guy who can win three out of four Super Bowls and give us the one thing the Giants with all their tradition lack….And that thing is a dynasty….and I don’t think Eli can do that.
by giant fan since 57 on Jan 30, 2009 4:05 PM EST reply actions
Eli thread
Man, how did an Eli debate break out in a Toomer post? You know, I am really tempted to take the whole Eli thread out of the comments and make a separate post out of it. I love good debate, especially between two veteran Giants fans and two of the most respected members of BBV Nation.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 30, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
It's really not a debate since I fall somewhere in between 57
and more avid supporters. I’m surprised we haven’t heard from more of them. BTW, had any luck finding a new job? I know you started out on newspapers and they’re fading away. I never asked how you liked working for the Daily Mess. Small family owned and rife with nepotism according to insubstantial rumors I heard when I lived in Canandaigua. Ever think of writing a book? I always though the saga of Billy Scharr would make a good book, a realistic portrayal of the dark side of American sports. I honestly hoped he’d be the Giants QB one day. Certainly I thought he’d make it to the NFL. There was no doubt in my mind If he’d gone to a school like Brigham Young things might have worked out for him. He had dozens of offers from top Division I schools and chose the absolute worst one for his skill set.
Scharr
is the best high school QB I ever saw. I thought he would be a star. I never got the full story as to what happened to him at Syracuse. I’d like to someday. As for a book, I’ve kicked around a couple of ideas but nothing solid. Maybe one day. Oh, and as for a job a little project work but nothing steady.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 30, 2009 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
I heard Syracuse lured him there on false pretenses, saying they were going to
change to a pro offense for him. They had to get him because he was the most highly touted football player in western NY in decades. The youngest of thirteen children he wanted to stay close to home. Of course they didn’t change. A pure pocket passer, he couldn’t run their college style offense. He got fed up and walked away from playing football for good. I don’t know why he didn’t go to another school. Plenty still wanted him.
Hang in there, Ed.
Scharr was amazing
Thanks for the kind words, George. I sat with Scharr for hours one afternoon in the bleachers at Canandaigua when he was a senior and did a long interview with him about his family, his football, etc. Great kid. I know he coached for a while, but I don’t know if he still is.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 31, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
I'm a big supporter of Eli
but I really can’t find fault with what 57 has said. I still think he’s a top 10 QB (low on that list), that he can get the job done (as we have seen), and is continually improving, but he’ll probably never be a HOFer. Actually if I was to point out one thing I disagree with that is minor, I would point out that while Eli used to take 1 step forward and 2 steps back, I think in the last year and a half that has changed. It seems now that he’s taking 2 steps forward and 1 step back. This is conjecture of course, but its how I see it.
I don’t think its a lack of confidence as much as things need to be set up pretty well around him for him to succeed. He’s not going to carry the team on his back. But that’s why he’s not a HOFer, just a good young QB.
Yeah, I just looked back and I'm afraid I did start it....
But it’s partly George’s fault too. He picked up on my frame of mind in an earlier post and asked if I was disapointed in Eli….LOL
by giant fan since 57 on Jan 30, 2009 5:20 PM EST reply actions
I just feel a muted lack of confidence in the air re Eli,
although God knows there are many Giants’ fans who think he’s the greatest thing since bottled beer. Btw, 57, a columnist on Fox sports website makes an intereting argument that Kurt and Ben are far superior to both Mannings. I’d post a link but damned if I know how.
Really!
I don’t think Ben is better than Eli and he certainly can’t even be mentioned in the same breath as Peyton.
Kurt had a great run with the Rams before he got injured but part of his success had to be attributable to the talented receivers and Marshall Faulk. He is a very accurate passer. As much as I like Kurt, I wouldn’t consider trading him for Peyton.
As long as we’re talking about great quarterbacks I think Dan Fouts, had he had played on a more rounded team might be the guy everyone is compared to these days.
by giant fan since 57 on Jan 30, 2009 6:33 PM EST reply actions
Whitlock likes to stir up controversy.
Did you read the piece? You can go to msn.com and hit sports. Choice remarks:
“I don’t care about #s; I care about victories.” (he thinks Peyton’s been a failure in post season play.)
“I’m a huge fan of Peyton, but…,”
“The Mannings are more physically gifted, but W & B are better leaders.” (He likes tough guys and guys who came up the hard way.)
At least Fouts got to the HOF despite never having won an SB. He wasn’t a good broadcaster though. Pathetic, actually.
tough to say Peyton's a good leader
I’ve never heard anyone say that, and I remember him throwing his whole O-line under the bus 3 years ago
Hey George
What did you think of Al Derogadas (spell?) when he used to do color on NBC? I used to think he had a lot of football knowledge.
I read the article on msn. It’s ridiculous. You can’t compare players by adding up their Super Bowl appearances. Marino only played in one. Does that mean Ben is better than him? Of course not. And can anyone seriously say that Peyton isn’t a great leader? That is so far out in left field it doesn’t deserve to be debated, in my opinion.
by giant fan since 57 on Jan 31, 2009 5:11 AM EST reply actions
Derogatis. Dero was great
He did the Giants games for years (as soon as he stopped playing I think.).
He’s going to be one of the cast of thousands (actually, around thirty) for the SB pre-game show. Five hours. Who watches that stuff?
As for Whitlock, he goes out of his way to stir up controversy. I think that’s why he has a column. The Whitlock family motto helps to explain his often outrageous assertions: “always certain, seldom right.”
I know a few people that fit that motto.....
by giant fan since 57 on Jan 31, 2009 8:22 AM EST up reply actions
Good stuff guys
I really appreciate the different perspectives everyone contributes on BBV. I have been checking the site at least five times a day to ease the hangover of this year’s playoff loss, and it has definitely helped.
Ultimately the more I read 57’s take on Eli, the more I have to concur to a degree. Someone also made the point that most Giants fans are resigned to the fact that Eli will be our QB long term so we might as well focus on what he has done rather than what he has failed to do. Thanks again fellas, keep up the good work. G-MEN !
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Community Guidelines
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Get Your Giants' Gear
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
