The waiting is the hardest part

by Ed Valentine on Jan 21, 2009 11:00 AM EST in News Comment 19 comments

The worst thing about the Super Bowl -- other than the fact that our New York Giants are not in it this time -- is the interminable two-week wait for the game.

That gives us way too much time to hear or read about the same stories over and over and over again.

Here are some of the stories that I know you will be tired of long before the Arizona Cardinals and Pittsburgh Steelers meet in Super Bowl XLIII. If, that is, you aren't tired of them already.

The Anquan Boldin saga. Has he turned into T.O., or something even worse? Will he be a distraction for the Cardinals? Was Sunday's sideline blowup an aberration the team can easily put behind it? Can Boldin be effective against the Steelers now that he is at the center of a circus?
Is Kurt Warner a Hall of Famer? You will hear this pretty much every time Warner is discussed between now and game time. Shoot, you will probably hear it during the game, too. My answer is, yes. Three Super Bowl appearances, an MVP, a Super Bowl MVP, the NFL all-time leader in passing yards per game, and second all time in completion percentage. How much doubt can there be?
The resurrection of Edgerrin James during the playoffs. Oh, and questions for James about whether or not he has changed his mind about wanting out of Arizona after the Super Bowl.
Ken Whisenhunt vs. the Steelers. How much of an advantage for the Cardinals is it that their head coach was Pittsburgh's offensive coordinator just a couple of seasons ago?
How did the historically awful Arizona Cardinals end up in the Super Bowl? After all, they haven't won anything in 60 years.
Todd Haley. The Cardinals offensive coordinator is the new hot assistant coach. You'll read about him being a candidate for any remaining openings, and some jobs (like Dallas) that aren't 'officially' open. Could Haley be the next Brian Billick? Remember, Billick was thought to be an offensive genius before becoming Baltimore head coach. Turned out all his genius involved was 'throw the ball to Randy Moss.' For Haley, it's 'throw the ball to Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin.'

0 recs | Comment 19 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Re: Warner

Sorry Ed, my friend, but I have to disagree with you on this one.

Warner has been in the league for 11 years. Of those 11 years, he’s played the full season just three times and has played 11 games for two other seasons. So he’s only played FIVE full seasons. So to be a HOF’er you have to be a transcendent player. Of the five full seasons that Warner has played in, has he been “Transcendent”? Head and shoulders better than most, and given his limited history; all, players at the position? No. No way. If he’s a “can’t miss”/definite Hall of Famer, the Rams don’t let him go, the Giants don’t bench him for Eli, and the Cardinals don’t pit him head to head with Matt Leinart.

Look at it this way and compare Warner to Favre (who I would argue IS a definite first-ballot Hall of Famer, simply because of his longevity and scope and body of work) – would Favre have bounced around like Warner has? No way! Warner bounced around because he couldn’t stay on the field; either due to injuries or (more likely) ineffectiveness.

Look; Warner is a great player and by all accounts a great guy. But is he a Hall of Famer? Or has he had the benefit of playing in some GREAT offenses (Faulk/Bruce/Holt/OPace in STL, Fitz/Boldin etc in PHO)?

Anyway, I say “no” on the Hall of Fame question. Maybe IF he wins the Super Bowl, AND wins the Super Bowl MVP, AND guides the Cardinals to the Super Bowl next year and plays the entire year – then maybe that’s a different story!

by Cody K on Jan 21, 2009 11:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

When push comes to shove, Cody, of those who make the HOF decision some

will accept your rationale; others, Ed’s. I think that the talk is out there already bodes well for his inclusion. Then again, aside from the truly transcendent (the most transcendent?) the top 100 players of all time, say, there are always a contingent of naysayers pointing out the lack of credentials some HOFers have (see comment re Steve Young below.)
There are others who bemoan the fate of those they believe should have made it to the Hall (Plunkett, Stabler, LaMonica, Simms,etc.)
Most of the times I’ve seen Warner play (except for his stint with the Giants), he has looked sensational. His story has sex appeal—from stock boy to SB MVP, then severe shoulder injury that made it look like he was through (his ducks worse and more frequent than Eli’s), eventual recuperation. and now leading a perennial loser into the SB. At this point, given all the talk, I’d guess he’s a definite possibility. More importantly, he has time to boost his credentials. Do you really beleive he needs 2 more SB wins to maybe be worthy of consideration? If that’s the case, I think the odds of him getting in are overwhelmingly against.

by blue gonz on Jan 21, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would have said no

without what Warner has done this season, especially if he had not gotten to another Super Bowl.

by Ed Valentine on Jan 21, 2009 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Right.

I think he’ll make it. Peronally, I think it’s futile to argue the merits of his case. I don’t get to vote and such discussions often degenerate into no more than pissing contests

by blue gonz on Jan 21, 2009 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The Curse

The Cards must of payed off Pottsville and the devil;

“Until that title is returned, Barbetta says, the Cardinals will be doomed by a curse folks in Pottsville hand down from generation to generation. "We cursed ’em with the oldest, strongest curse in sports.”

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs07/columns/story?columnist=fleming_david&id=3222796

by The Pale Scot on Jan 21, 2009 11:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I read this and immediately thought it was referring to Pottstown, Pa,

home of the Firebirds, QBd by the legendary King Corcoran, who was given a shot at displacing Joe Namath with the Jets. Had King been able to do so it would have ranked up there with Johnny U coming from a sandlot team and leading Baltimore to the championship.

by blue gonz on Jan 21, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Anquan Boldin "saga" is getting way blown out of proportion, IMHO.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Jan 21, 2009 12:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

HOF

If Steve Young is a Hall of Famer then so is Kurt Warner.

by John W on Jan 21, 2009 2:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I love Kurt Warner but he is no Steve Young

Steve was a much better all around athlete who at times carried the whole 49’rs team on his back with Vick like runs as well as pinpoint passing. In his whole career I never remember him having any lapses in greatness. In my opinion he was much better even than Montana, who was blessed with Jerry Rice in his prime and a much better team.

After reading Cody’s first comment about Warner I looked at all the quarterbacks currently enshrined in the HOF. The one thing they all shared was a career that spanned 12 to 16 years. I have to agree that Warner, though headed that way, does not yet have the volume of work required to enter. However he is only 37 and can still make his mark. Next weekend would be a good time to start.

by giant fan since 57 on Jan 21, 2009 6:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Tampa Bay

Don’t forget though that he was 3-16 with Tampa as a starter. A lot of his success in SF has a lot to do with the pieces already in place as much as his natural talent. He lost to the Cowboys a couple of times in the NFC championship and then to the Packers. I agree he was a great QB but when you compare his numbers to Warner, Warner matches up pretty well.

by John W on Jan 21, 2009 7:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Everybody who ever played skilled positions

for Tampa during that period (even Steve Spurrier) gets a free pass….LOL

Remember a HOF career doesn’t depend on the number of wins your team has. If it did where would Walter Payton be?

Warner’s body of work just needs to be a little larger to compare with the greats who have been inducted. If he pulls it off next week it might just be enough to some. After all, Gayle Sayers didn’t play as long as some of the other greats either.

by giant fan since 57 on Jan 22, 2009 6:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Longevity counts, if for no other reason

than it provides time to build up stats. It’s interesting to see the wide variety or opinions re who was best at what position. The Sporting News list of the 100 greatest of the 20th century gave the # 1 spot to
Jim Brown, # 3 to Montana (ahead of # 5 Unitas.) They have Young at 63 I saw another poll that had Brown at #1, Unitas # 2, LT at three. The Sporting News had Jerry Rice at #2 and LT at 4.

by blue gonz on Jan 21, 2009 8:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's an impossible task to

try to decide who was the best player of all time in the NFL. Great fun to debate, though….Personally I would rate Young much higher than 63 at his position.

by giant fan since 57 on Jan 22, 2009 6:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

57, FYI, the Sporting News list has 9 QBs ahead of Young.

Here are the names and ranking:
Montana 3
Unitas 5
Baugh 11
Elway 16
Marino 27
Staubach 29
Luckman 39
Layne 52
Tarkenton 59
I know you like Young more than Montana. Who else (if anyone) would you rank lower than Young? Baugh, Luckman and Layne go way back, so maybe you don’t remember them. I saw them all play.
The only one I might question is Layne, whose greatest asset was his leadership. He just couldn’t accept losing and wouldn’t allow his team mates to let down for an instant. Fiery is the adjective that comes to mind when I recall him (although his count was a slow, Texas drawl.)

by blue gonz on Jan 22, 2009 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree it's an impossible task.

How about Jim Brown at #1? I was around when he played (and before then as well.) i remember his dominance. I also remember how often teams chose RBs as their first choice back in the day. Much less frequently now when the common wisdom is that RBs are more or less a dime a dozen.
A RB the best player of all time? Despite Brown’s greatness I can’t swallow that. QB is the most important position on the team. My own choice for #1 would be Johnny U. His lifetime stats support that choice as well.
I’m sure BBVers could put forward at least 4 or 5 other names for that honor.

by blue gonz on Jan 22, 2009 10:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'm with you.

Johnny Unitas is the best to ever put on a uniform. I did see Bobby Lyne play but that was with the Steelers, at the end of his career. In answer to your question I woud rate Unitas and Elway over Young, and probably Marino as well. I don’t remember Sammy Baugh so I can’t say anything about him. In my opinion Young is better than the reat of them (including Bret Favre).’’ I wonder where Bradshaw is on the list?

I also think, like you, that a case could be made that Jim Brown is right behind Unitas as the most valuable NFL player ever.

I seem to be agreeing with you a lot lately. You must be coming around to my way of thinking…LOL

by giant fan since 57 on Jan 22, 2009 5:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs