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Let's look at the linebacker question

Antonio_pierce_vertical_medium
Antonio Pierce had the worst season of his four years with the Giants in 2008. Can he rebound in 2009, or is it time to start looking for a new middle linebacker?

Now that Bill Sheridan has been named as the Giants new defensive coordinator, today seems like the perfect time to discuss what most of us agree is the biggest issue on the defense right now.

That would, of course, be the position Sheridan used to coach -- linebacker.

We have to begin by dissecting the play of the group of linebackers the Giants used in 2008. I would not classify this group as disappointing, I would just call them adequate at best. Definitely not good enough for a team with championship aspirations, or for a team that needs its defense to be dominant.

The only place to start that discussion is with the leader of that group, middle linebacker Antonio Pierce.

Pierce has been a terrific leader an an excellent player in his four seasons with the Giants. He is not a dominant middle linebacker, though, and the numbers tell you this was his worst season since becoming a full-time starter back in 2004 with the Washington Redskins.

Pierce had 94 tackles in 15 games this season, down from 139 tackles in 16 games just two seasons ago. He seemed to be out of position on several long runs by opposing backs this season, and seemed slow in pass coverage.

I don't see anyone on the current roster replacing him, though. Chase Blackburn is a nice player who started several games outside this season but I don't see him as a long-term starter for a championship-caliber defense. Who knows what Jonathan Goff, who was hurt most of his rookie season, can do.

 

Star-divide

Now, let's look at the outside guys.

As I have already said, I don't see Blackburn as a long-term starter. He is a great special teams player and an adequate fill-in, but nothing more. Danny Clark? The Giants signed him to be Reggie Torbor, a fill-in and special teams player. They ended up asking him to be Kawika Mitchell, a full-time playmaker, and he didn't measure up. It won't bother me if he isn't back next season.

Mathiaskiwanuka_2_medium
Mathias Kiwanuka

I love Bryan Kehl, the fourth-round pick out of BYU last season, and think he could be a playmaker for the Giants at one of the outside slots. Gerris Wilkinson? Hasn't been able to get on the field for two years, so you can't count on him for anything.

The big question on the current roster is, of course, Mathias Kiwanuka. Does he return to linebacker, where he was settling in nicely before breaking his leg in 2007, or does he stay at defensive end and form a big-time pass rushing troika with Justin Tuck and Osi Umenyiora?

I don't know what the right answer is. I always loved his potential at linebacker, and still think he can be a dominant force there. I can also see how valuable he can be at DE helping to limit the numbers of snaps Tuck and Umenyiora have to play.

I just know it isn't fair to Kiwanuka to keep bouncing him back and forth. Fortunately for Kiwanuka and the Giants, I think new defensive coordinator Bill Sheridan -- linebackers coach the past couple of seasons -- should be the perfect guy to make that decision.

Free Agents

There are several quality free-agent linebackers available. Three of the Baltimore linebackers are free agents, but I honestly wouldn't go looking at any of those guys. Or, for that matter, any other 3-4 linebackers. Who is on that list that you really like?

The Draft

Fortunately for the Giants, this year's crop of linebackers appears to be very deep. This is what Pro Football Weekly had to say about the linebackers available in this April's draft.

This year’s LB class is very strong inside and outside and could be the gem of the draft, with intriguing versatility a signature of the group. With the addition of defensive ends being projected to rush linebacker, this year’s class really could turn out to be not only deep, but special — maybe even unmatched in its overall strength.

I will be honest here. I have not studied the available players in any depth, so I can't tell you who I would like. I am sure some of you already have ideas about that.

I will be disappointed, though, if the Giants don't use an early pick -- or two -- to find some playmakers at this position.

Your thoughts?

 

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Draft an LB in the first round

And another one sometime in the next 2-3 rounds.

by squid92 on Jan 20, 2009 7:26 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Maualuga?

Since USC is televised every weekend I saw a lot of this kid. He is high intensity and I think he could be a really good fit in the Giants defense. There is also that kid from Wake Forest, Aaron Curry, who seems to be on top of everyone’s list. Admittingly, I did not see a single Demon Deacons game this year.

by BigBlue4Life on Jan 20, 2009 8:02 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I've been advocating Maualuga

since last year, when I thought he was gonna leave USC early. I think he’s gonna be a stud LB in the NFL. The only problem is I doubt he’ll last long enough for the Giants to take him, unless they trade up, which I’d only do if they’re not trading any picks for a receiver.

I’d also love to see them sign Vilma, but it sounds like he’s going back to NO.

by cjmulrain on Jan 20, 2009 5:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

if Vilma goes back to NO that second rounder becomes a first

Right?

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jan 20, 2009 8:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess that's only true if they re-sign him

without him becoming a free agent first. But there should be an investigation if it’s true that they have a “gentlemen’s agreement” for him to become a free agent and then resign with them so they don’t have to give up the pick.

Save the neck for me, Clark.

by Mr. Met on Jan 20, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Draft, Kiwi, & FA

I definitely want the Giants to take a LB early as well.

I was a big supporter of keeping Kiwi at LB last offseason, but I’ve now changed my mind. It became very apparent that the strength of the D-line last year not only came from the talent, but the depth as well. The line got worn out by the end of the year. Having the Tuck-Kiwi-Osi trio will help to keep them fresh and generate the much needed pressure from the front 4. I think it’s critical to the whole defensive scheme that the Giants sustain their depth here.

by potroast on Jan 20, 2009 8:03 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Kiwi

If they move Kiwi back to LB I think they have to find a better DE than Wynn-Tollefson-McDougle to add their.

by Ed Valentine on Jan 20, 2009 8:06 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Kiwi

I think that he must stay at DE. GMen can add another LB; but adding a top DE might be more challenging.

by Cody K on Jan 20, 2009 1:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I like Tollefson

But you’re right.

by squid92 on Jan 20, 2009 4:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Suggs

would fit in very nicely on the Giants defense. Dansby too. I think the LB issue can be solved via free agency, and they may burn one of those 2nd rounders on an LB as well.

Giants fan from the womb to the tomb

by Jim Schmiedeberg on Jan 20, 2009 8:24 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Suggs would probably fit better as a DE in a 4-3. He’s more of a pass rusher then a cover man.

by archon095 on Jan 20, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I agree with your approach, jr.

I’d like to keep Kiwi at DE, too. Sheridan will have a voice in selecting D players and know how best to use the personnel we wind up with. I’d forgotten McGinest is still playing. How long can that guy keep going?

by blue gonz on Jan 20, 2009 8:37 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Don't move Kiwanuka!

 As versatile as he is, it can only hurt to keep moving him, He seems more natural at end. The Giants really need 3 new starters at LB. It was he weakest link in the D last season. I know this doesn’t sit well with his fans but, did you ever remember him actually sacking any one on a blitz ? He generally wraps up RB’s a few yards after they’ve broken the line. We all know the coverage issues too well. Sure the Linemen are more important in this (hopefully the same) Defense but they at times are only as good as those backing them on the field.
  Off topic but the best free agent out there might be N. A. the guy I cant pronounce his name from the Raiders could make the secondary absolutely dominant. If the rookie crop of LB’s is as strong as advertised this might be the area to stack in free agency.

We're only gonna score 17 points?

by big blue wrecking crew on Jan 20, 2009 9:16 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

This came off unclear

I was referring to A.P. at linebacker not being as effective on blitzes etc.

We're only gonna score 17 points?

by big blue wrecking crew on Jan 20, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I love Asomugha

But our CB’s are going to be a major strength in coming years. Webster, Ross, and Thomas all have the potential to be quite good.

by squid92 on Jan 20, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I was concerned with

Kiwi’s ability to play coverage at the OLB spot, so I agree with keeping him at DE. I wonder if he’s versatile enough to play both LE and RE, to back-up Tuck and Osi.

In my opinion, the Giants should pursue a LB in FA, and maybe use and an early pick to help shore up depth on the DL.

by rzor on Jan 20, 2009 9:28 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

LB

They definitely need to draft a LB.

I think they should keep Kiwi at DE. He doesn’t look comfortable in open space trying to cover people.

Vilma and the Saints have an understanding that they will allow him to become a free agent and then sign him thus avoid losing their 1st round pick to the Giants. For that reason I’d like to see the Giants make him an offer and force N.O. to match it.

by John W on Jan 20, 2009 10:13 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I agree that they shouldn’t move Kiwanuka. If you listen to Tuck speak, he thinks depth at DE is very important in order to keep players fresh. They will also be able to slide Tuck over to DT on 3rd down passing plays.

In my opinion, the Giants should get Brian Cushing in the 1st round to play OLB. He is physically ready to play right now. I also like drafting players that have proven themselves at the highest level of competition in college.

by ggggmen08 on Jan 20, 2009 10:29 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

First 3 Rounds Draft Picks

1st Round – LB Brian Cushing (USC)
2nd Round – WR Kenny Britt (Rutgers)
2nd Round – LB Clint Sintim (UVA) (if he’s still availabe. if not maybe Marcus Freeman)
3rd Round – S Nic Harris (Oklahoma)

by ggggmen08 on Jan 20, 2009 10:38 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Re: Cushing

I don’t think that cushing is a very good idea due to injuries and the persistent rumors of his protein shakes being Bill Romanowski Specials

It's not easy being Giants fan in Philly.. but it sure is satisfying

by Hoyadestroya85 on Jan 20, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

heh

protein shakes

by Cody K on Jan 20, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely on Kenny Britt

And among the LB’s, right now I don’t have much of a preference. I also like Nic Harris. I plan on trying to find as much as I can on all the top upcoming LB’s in the draft, and maybe throwing something together as a Fanpost about them, maybe some videos as well.

by squid92 on Jan 20, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Love Kenny Britt

I’m an big RU fan but he fits the bill, 6-4 215 4.4 forty good hands. ggggmen08 I’m on the same page w/ you about Cushing. I actually saw a mock draft that has the Giants takeing Sintim in the first round.

by Landeta on Jan 20, 2009 8:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Keep Kiwi at DE

I agree with all those who think Kiwi should stay at DE. While using him as a linebacker was an intriguing idea, he never really got the hang of pass coverage. If we played a 3-4 defense, he could be the lb that always rushed, but in a 4-3, there’s going to be too many times when he he has to drop into coverage to maximize his value. If he stays at DE, (with Osi back), Tuck can do what he does best, play all over the line and wreak havoc. Who knows what Kehl and Goff can do, but it’s unrealistic to count on them becoming great players, and I agree that despite tantalizing potential (amazing speed and coverage skills) Wilkinson can’t be counted on either. I definitely think we should take two linebackers in the first two rounds, and maybe go after a free agent to set up a real competition at that position. Is Bart Scott of the Ravens a free agent? He played impressively down the stretch, albeit in a 3-4 system. Upgrading this position would make our defense consistently dominant.

by Tucker Fredrickson on Jan 20, 2009 11:02 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Love the name Tucker

Good stuff

Giants fan from the womb to the tomb

by Jim Schmiedeberg on Jan 20, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ernie Koy?

As always, here with Chuck Mercein and Bobby Duhon.

by django48 on Jan 20, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

That brings back the memories!

by Tucker Fredrickson on Jan 20, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for filling me in on that.

I’ve often wondered. Any news on those immortal Texans, Donnie Caraway and Bobby Joe Conrad?

by blue gonz on Jan 20, 2009 3:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The LB and WR position is keeping the Giants from being a truly complete team.

LB is important just because teams decided to scheme directly at AP late last season and he was torched game after game. Perhaps he was gassed because they really don’t spell the man enough or maybe he’s done. I don’t know for sure but I do know that I want a 6’4" 240lb beast with speed and a desire to kill any offensive player in his sight.

Pierce is small and no longer swift. It seemed like he was guessing instead of making an impact. But he is very smart. I would get a young backer to take some downs from Pierce, maybe a fresh Pierce would perform better late.

I do like Ernie Koy but with the Eagles drafting ahead of us I would think they would take a backer too.

by Major on Jan 20, 2009 2:34 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Trade with

The Carolina Panthers.

by John W on Jan 20, 2009 7:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No only the Super Bowl teams move to the end. Everyone else lines up based upon their regular season records.

by archon095 on Jan 21, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Suggs is good enough to play anywhere

regardless of scheme, so he’d be someone I would investigate in FA. Drafting one at our slot wouldnt help immediately, Goff or Kehl would have a year on them and presumably would be ready for more playing time, particularly Kehl.

So we’d be too late for Malaluga (sp?) or Laurenitiis….so would a mid round LB be anymore of an upgrade than the young guys we have?

No doubt they’ll take at least one, but that cant be counted on to help immediately.

Does Kiwi have enough speed to cover anyone?

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jan 20, 2009 4:50 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Laurenitiis stinks

I’m telling you, teams have been running right at him for the last two year.

by queler on Jan 21, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

plus

he’s a Suckeye. Pass…

by cjmulrain on Jan 21, 2009 11:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I know I'm in the minority here but

as long as we are preparing to totally revamp our linebackers why not consider the switch to a 3-4 system. I just don’t buy the argument that it will take too long to implement. The advantages of a 3-4 are worth the gamble in my opinion. A defense needs to constantly stay ahead of it’s opponents to prevent predictability.

by giant fan since 57 on Jan 20, 2009 5:36 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I don't know

is Bill Sherridan the man to do that? I would certainly entertain the idea if the Giants had hired Capers, but doing a switch to 3-4 with a guy that might not be very familiar with it seems like a lot to ask, especially as a first time coordinator.

by potroast on Jan 20, 2009 5:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

3-4

is not going to happen. Sheridan has already committed to keeping the Spagnuolo system. Keeping the system is one of the reasons Coughlin promoted him. The 3-4 has its merits, but that decision has already been made.

by Ed Valentine on Jan 20, 2009 6:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Besides...

It’s not easy to make the switch unless your in rebuilding mode. You have to have a bunch of good LB/DEs, like the Steelers to make it work.

The entire front seven, with the exception of the nose tackle, has to be able to play the run, pass the rusher, and drop back into coverage.

The Jets went from 4-3 to 3-4 under Mangini and they still don’t really have all the pieces in place. Keep an eye on the Packers next year because they’re about to go through the same thing under Dom Capers.

by John W on Jan 20, 2009 7:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

pass the rusher?

ha

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jan 20, 2009 8:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

the packers may make it work

Cullen Jenkins and Aaron Kampman seem like good 3-4 ends (especially jenkins) and also A.J. Hawk may finally live up to his potential as a 3-4 linebacker…

It's not easy being Giants fan in Philly.. but it sure is satisfying

by Hoyadestroya85 on Jan 21, 2009 8:43 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

4-3 vs. 3-4

I like the 4-3 that the Giants run because of the capability to get to the QB. So long as the CB’s are able to cover their men long enough, the DE’s and DT’s can generate a great rush. So when guys like Robbins are generating a great push, the D is excellent.

Conversely, on some downs next year, the Giants can likely get Tuck, Osi, AND Kiwi all lined up on the D-line. Imagine a front 4 of Osi/Kiwi/Robbins/Tuck? That’s getting back to what made the team so successful the prior year (ie the Four Aces).

Anyway, I would much rather stick in this 4-3 because the skill guys are on the D Line. But upgrading at LB is a MUST. Pierce just looked old this year. I mean I love the guy and he is a TRUE warrior – but he really looked like he lost a step and was never there mentally after the Plax debacle.

by Cody K on Jan 20, 2009 8:02 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I agree

stick w/ the 4-3 thats what the talent on this team dictates. Love the 4 aces look. Try and draft another pass rusher w/ one of their first 4 picks and see if they can contribute and work them in the rotation.

by Landeta on Jan 20, 2009 8:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Bart Scott & Brian Cushin

ETVal – I like Kehl too, he has good wheels and can get back in pass coverage, he had a pick in the Pitt game and I think he was the only LB to get an interception this year. Wilkinson looked like he had talent but can’t stay on the field.

Maluga is great but won’t get by the first 10-15 picks and is a middle LB, I like his USC teamate Brian Cushin, a Jersey kid, and an absolute playmaker on the outside he might be available late first round for the Giants. If they get a FA at LB, and I doubt they will spend that much money on a LB as a FA, I would grab Bart Scott from the Ravens. He’s another outside playmaker and he can rush the QB. Keep Pierce in the Middle, Scott at one OLB, and let Cushin & Kehl compete for the other OLB spot. That would be upgrade the LB’s and give them some speed and Peirce won’t get exposed as much. Sounds nice, I wish being a GM was that easy!

by Landeta on Jan 20, 2009 8:15 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

LOL

Yeah, we have the easy part. Sitting here and telling Jerry Reese what he ‘should’ do. That’s why we are all NFL personnel experts. Ha!

by Ed Valentine on Jan 20, 2009 8:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Next coming of Harry Carson...

The Giants have had good luck filling the LB need through Free Agency. They need to find the next Harry Carson. Someone who loves filling a hole and laying the lumber on a ball carrier. AP has the brains but he physically does not scare the opposing offense. The draft may have someone who eventually could fill this role but it takes several years for the intuitive and instinctive skills to mature. I trust Reese to find the right body.

When its 3rd and long, throw the ball past the marker.

by Fester McDougal on Jan 20, 2009 8:44 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Goff?

Have the Giants already found him? I know they are very, very high on Jonathan Goff after drafting him last year. But, we don’t have any idea what kind of player he might be since he was injured so much this season.

by Ed Valentine on Jan 20, 2009 9:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Kawika Mitchell

I didn’t know about this site last year, so I don’t know what the BBV pundits said about the loss of Kawika Mitchell, but in retrospect that may have turned out to be the biggest loss of all. I remember he started the year quietly, but by the end he was a monster. He looked slow and awkward at times, but he could do it all. He got after the passer on the blitz, he was a stop em in their tracks tackler, and he handled himself well in pass coverage. I think not having a blitzing threat from the linebackers was almost as big a factor in the slowdown in sacks at this season’s end as the thinner D-line rotation. Somebody else always seemed to get the press though. There was lots of ink about Gibril Wilson leaving (anybody miss him?) And tons of debate about Shockey, although most true Giant fans knew that was addition by subtraction. And, naturally Strahan and Osi drew a lot of commentary. Hopefully Goff and Kehl will step up next year and provide some of that spark. I still think it’s priority number 1 in the draft and free agent thinking though.

by Tucker Fredrickson on Jan 20, 2009 9:30 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Kawika

I think we all underestimated that. Of course, we didn’t know that Osi would get hurt and Kiwi would have to move. Also, I don’t think you could kill Reese for not wanting to give Mitchell big money. But yes, he was missed.

by Ed Valentine on Jan 20, 2009 10:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

very true

Kawika was definitely missed. I think he had a pretty solid season in Buffalo too. Oh well, Reese ain’t perfect, but he’s pretty damn close – I can forgive the occasional misfire like letting Kawika go. And like Ed said, he didn’t know Osi was gonna get hurt – Osi at DE and Kiwanuka at OLB would have made a big difference this year.

by cjmulrain on Jan 20, 2009 11:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Good point.

For every thing Reese does wrong, he does five right. So we definitely can’t be too upset about this.

by squid92 on Jan 20, 2009 11:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not critical of Reese

I didn’t mean my comments to be critical of Reese, who so far has proven to be both an excellent evaluator of football talent, and a great negotiator and salary cap manager. I think he was probably justified in not spending the money on Mitchell that he would have had to to keep him. I’m sure he thought that with the return of Kiwi and with Wilkinson’s strong showing down the strectch the position was well covered. I’m also sure that he felt that the draft would yield some talent at that position. And I suspect he didn’t predict Pierce’s surprisingly steep decline.

By the way, I have to say it’s great to find a community of passionate and thoughtful Giant’s fans, who have a lot of intelligent things to say about my favorite team. I’ve been a Giant’s fan since 1960 (not quite as long as Giants Fan since 57).

by Tucker Fredrickson on Jan 21, 2009 10:29 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

be on the lookout for two small school guys

Ramses Barden WR: Cal Poly San Luis Obispo- 6’6 with decent speed and good hops.. a monster in the redzone and beats jams incredibly well.
Lawrence Sidbury- DE: RIchmond- one of the greatest motors i have ever seen. will take a while to up the competition but he should be able to make an impact.

It's not easy being Giants fan in Philly.. but it sure is satisfying

by Hoyadestroya85 on Jan 21, 2009 9:29 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

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