Spags to coach Rams
by Ed Valentine on Jan 17, 2009 4:27 PM EST
in News
42 comments
Goodbye, Spags.
Reports are everywhere this afternoon that the New York Giants have lost defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo, who has been hired as head coach of the St. Louis Rams.
NFL.com says Spags got a 4-year, $11.5 million contract. Ralph Vacchiano says the Giants are expected to promote a new coordinator from within.
Good luck, Spags. You will be missed.
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NOOOOO!!!
Damn. Now we’re stuck with just the BAD coordinator, I bet.
by squid92 on Jan 17, 2009 5:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think people are overestimating the impact of this...
The Giants have had great defenses many, many times, with different coaches…its the guys on the field that make Spags/Jim Johnson etc look like geniuses.
Without Tuck, Osi, Strahan, Pierce etc etc, how good would he look than?
Point is, dont overreact to this, we’ve got plenty of talent on that side of the ball.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jan 17, 2009 5:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
True, but ...
The Giants weren’t that good on the front 7 this year. The only pressure they generated was ‘scheme pressure,’ not man-up and beating a guy. That was Spags. I simply hope they promote from within and that Sheridan or whoever they promote shares Spags’ aggressive philosophy.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 17, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ummm, no
Almost all of the pressure this year was generated by the front four.
In fact, I recently read somewhere that the Giants only managed to get a grand total of three sacks from their back seven all season. That’s half a sack fewer than what they got from Kawika Mitchell alone last year.
But this utter inability of any of the linebackers or secondary to get to the QB didn’t prevent Spags from leaning heavily on the blitz. In my mind, this was his greatest failing this year: Too many ineffective blitzes that accomplished little except for leaving Pierce or the corners isolated in single coverage. And I’m still pissed about that ill-conceived blitz call on 3rd and 20 against Philly in the playoff game when he should have called for a much less risky dime coverage that would have had a greater probability of preventing a receiver from gaining the full 20 yards needed.
Don’t get me wrong; I liked him and am sorry to see him go. I just thought he had a bit of a sophomore slump this year; relying a bit too heavily on the schemes that worked so well last year even though this year’s personnel didn’t seem nearly as capable of executing them. But I’m sure whoever we get will do fine – with the return of a healthy Osi; a full year of Terrell Thomas (who looks like a star) and Phillips in the secondary and (hopefully) another high defensive draft pick from Reese, this defense is poised to dominate for years to come, regardless of who the coordinator may be.
by knickfan on Jan 17, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We must have been watching different teams
All I know is that for the last few games the giants got no pressure from the front four. They only got pressure when they blitzed corners or safeties.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 17, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, look at the numbers, Ed
While you’re absolutely correct that the front four wore down to the point where the pass rush was all but invisible by season’ end, the notion that they got any additional pass rush by virtue of Spags’ schemes is laughable.
A quick perusal of the defensive stats will show that the Giants got a whopping four sacks from the back seven this year: one from Pierce; one from Johnson; one from Webster; and one from Kehl. Hardly the kind of numbers that will keep opposing QBs and offensive coordinators up at night. In fact, as I said in my earlier post, Spags’ over-reliance on the blitz put much more pressure on our secondary as well as on a linebacking crew that wasn’t too strong to begin with.
Even though the pass rush from our front four all but disappeared by the end of the year, this was not a good blitzing team this year, by any definition of the word. Spags should have recognized this and adjusted his schemes from last year to be more in line with the capabilites of this year’s personnel.
by knickfan on Jan 17, 2009 7:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said
I think you and I are watching completely different teams. Or, at least, watching a completely different way.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 17, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Where's your evidence, Ed?
You made the claim that the Giants “only got pressure when they blitzed corners or safeties.” I produced numbers showing that, in fact, they got no such thing: Four sacks by the back seven over sixteen games is a pretty damning indictment of their complete ineffectiveness in that department.
That was the team that I was watching all year. So I guess you’re probably right – it is a completely different team from that chimerical Giants team of yours that got so much pressure on the opposing QB from its linebackers and secondary.
by knickfan on Jan 17, 2009 8:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You watched the games
You know that they got no pressure from the D-line the last half of the season. What is a coach supposed to do? Sit back and do nothing and let a QB sit in the pocket for a week and a half? If we wanted that, we could have kept Tim Lewis. If you’re not willing to give Spags credit for how well this defense played despite losing Osi and Strahan and having crappy LBs then we just agree to disagree.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 17, 2009 8:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not hating on Spags
Look, I like the guy. I hate to see him go. But I do think he had a bit of a sophomore slump, primarily due to the fact that he seemed to lean a bit too heavily on the strategy that he had so much success with last year.
Spags made his reputation last year with the blitz. And, true to form, he blitzed heavily again this year even though he really didn’t have the personnel for it. As the year wore on, opponents were game planning fror the blitz and burned the Giants on several occasions when those expected blitzes didn’t get home. What I would have liked to see was more in the way of disguised blitzes from Spags; take advantage of the opponent’s knowledge of his tendencies by faking blitz and then dropping guys back into coverage where they could hopefully get an easy pick if the QB makes an incorrect hot read.
I guess what I’m saying is that Spags seemed a little bit too predictable in his second year. I have no doubt that he probably would have learned from the experience, made the necessary adjustments next year, and grown exponentially in his role as defensive coordinator. Sadly, we’ll never get to find out.
by knickfan on Jan 17, 2009 8:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
four sacks all year by the back seven is a
pretty damning statistic, but it doesn’t tell the whole story.
that doesn’t answer this question:
how many times did the front four get sacks when the defense didn’t blitz?
just because Tuck, Coefield, Robbins, Wynn, Tollefson, and Kiwi (all of whom usually line up on the front four) got almost all of the sacks, doesn’t mean that they got them all on plays that the Giants were only rushing the front four.
plus, i think Ed was saying that the front four didn’t get any pressure in the back-half of the season without the help of the blitzes. look at the Dallas game – the Giants blitzed all night, but only Kiwi, Tuck, Alford, and Wynn got the sacks.
side note: starting your posts with “um” or “uhhhhh” is really condescending and there’s no place for that here. we’re all Giants fans. that’s all.
and go Knicks.
by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Jan 17, 2009 8:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My apologies
if my posts came across as condescending. My use of “uhs” and “umms” were merely intended as a cheap rhetorical device and were in no way intended to belittle.
In fact, I have nothing but the utmost admiration for Ed and the incredible job he does maintaining this blog and cultivating this loyal community of Giant fans. I pretty much check out this blog every day. Usually, I only bother to comment in those instances when I disagree. The scarce number of my comments here are testament to how often I see things eye to eye with Ed and most of the commenters here.
by knickfan on Jan 17, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cool
I think we can agree that Spags will be missed. I just hope the next guy is as successful.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 17, 2009 9:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to thank you for agreeing with me so much.
That was some really great validation right there.
Save the neck for me, Clark.
by Mr. Met on Jan 17, 2009 11:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the front four
didn’t do anything in the entire 2nd half of the season.
by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Jan 17, 2009 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But tell me the truth...
You really think coaches don’t have SOME role in the game? Because (as we could see with the offense) the ability to develop a game plan and deviate accordingly is a necessary aspect of being able to win, and that’s fully under the umbrella of coordinators and coaches.
by squid92 on Jan 17, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Its a grey area...
The coaches are only as good as their players, and the overall weakness or strenghts of a team can be hid or bolstered by the coaches for sure, but do you really think we’re going to suffer that much with the talent thats on this team?
My only fear is that our next DC wont be as aggressive, but hopefully Reese and Coughlin realize that style suits the personnel and hire accordingly
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jan 17, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not the news I weas hoping for today
but I guess I can’t deny Spags the chance to be a HC – he’s earned it.
Save the neck for me, Clark.
by Mr. Met on Jan 17, 2009 5:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well, we all expected this.
We were lucky to keep him an extra year. If we hadn’t I don’t think we would have had as good a record. Like you, Ed, my preference is for promoting from within.
by blue gonz on Jan 17, 2009 5:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
this is a good situation for Spags
and by “good” i mean better than Detroit or Oakland.
i wish him well and i think he’ll be a success.
by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Jan 17, 2009 7:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Dom Capers
has been mentioned as a successor to Spags.
by Skycat on Jan 17, 2009 7:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Dom Capers is emerging as the man. Why not try Gruden?
by Major on Jan 17, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gruden?
Why would Gruden take any sort of coordinator job? Besides, he is an offense guy. He has never coached defense.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 17, 2009 8:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If they do go outside the organization again,
I’d prefer they raid the Eagles again, taking one of Johnson’s assistants. As I recall, Jacksonville did have a good D at least for a while when TC was there. Was Capers the co-ordinator then? It just seems senseless to bring in a guy who has no familiarity with a system that has worked so well.
by blue gonz on Jan 17, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Capers is a great coach
He has worked with TC before, too. Capers is a 3-4 coach, though, so it would be a system change.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 17, 2009 10:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
which would be bad
we dont have enough good linebackers for the 4-3…..i hope they stay within for this one
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Jan 17, 2009 10:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True...but we can remedy that.
I like the 3-4 defense. I think todays quarterbacks are beating the 4-3 with last second play changes at the LOS. I’m no defensive expert but I think the 3-4 defense masks it’s intentions better and forces more offensive line mistakes in pass protection while staying strong against the run. I also think that the 3-4 provides a better defense of the tilght end routes that have been killing us lately.
The switch would not come without headaches but maybe now is the time to start planning for it. Don’t we have a few extra picks this year?
by giant fan since 57 on Jan 18, 2009 5:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
3-4
We will have to study it more if Capers is hired … but, Kiwi and Kehl would be pretty good OLBs in a 3-4.
by Ed Valentine on Jan 18, 2009 8:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In a 3-4, how about
Osi and Kiwi as OLBs?
by blue gonz on Jan 18, 2009 9:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why not Osi?
As Landetta says, he’s not a 3-4 end. I don’t agree entirely (he could adjust to being one), but he has a point. Of course, there’s the learning curve. at LB. Hell, it took Kiwi almost a whole season to get into an LB groove.
by blue gonz on Jan 18, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rams not the right fit
I wish Spags well. He will have a heck of a career over the next 10 years + but I fear it will not go well with the Rams. They are a team without an identity and without passion for victory. Spags may be able to kindle some fire in their belly but in the end they need players and assembling a team of players is neither Spag’s speciality nor job as the Head Coach. The front office will drop the ball and Spags will take a bullet in 3 years or less. He will move on to happier pastures thereafter to some team with a culture of winning and hatred of losing. That will be the where he will make his bones.
Spags, we will miss you. Hang in there as it will be a wild ride!
When its 3rd and long, throw the ball past the marker.
by Fester McDougal on Jan 17, 2009 8:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not sure about that
The Rams hired a new GM last February who has a good history of success in Bill Devaney and they have some good young talent on that team … Chris Long & Donnie Avery. Plus Steven Jackson is sick. They just need some more young talent and start building up. Spags will not have to assemble that team, he’ll just need to coach, which we know he can do. That doesn’t mean there is not a lot of questions there. Let’s face it, Spags was not going to get a can’t miss job with his lack of experience, but I think this is one of those just wait and see things.
by potroast on Jan 18, 2009 8:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But, on the plus side of the ledger...
Kevin Gilbride a finalist for Oakland Raiders job.
Here’s hoping Cryptkeeper Al comes to the rescue!
by knickfan on Jan 17, 2009 9:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It would be tough to lose two co-ordinators at once, plus we
just lost Googs, the OL asst Coach. I have a feeling KG might be gone. TC has a lot of work ahead of him.
by blue gonz on Jan 17, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes,
but KG will easily be replaced because he is NOT one of the best OCs in the league. It’s a lot of work for TC, but the Giants are now a high profile coordinator job and they’ll be able to get some really good talent to fill these positions. All will be well.
by potroast on Jan 18, 2009 8:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
3-4 D
That would be a very tough switch for the Giants Personal. Kiwi is not a 3-4 End and Osi would struggle as a 3-4 end. Tuck is the only player who can do both and we don’t have a massive/athletic tackle to paly Nose Guard for that kind of D. Maybe Cofield (but what do you do w/ Robbins) Remember Kieth Hamilton, when he was first drafted he played D-End in a 3-4 then he moved to D-Tackle in a 4-3. Osi nor Kiwi have that sort of size. Kiwi might be able to play OLB in a 3-4 but what about our other LB’s. Pierce nor Blackburn have the size nor athletisisim to play in the 3-4. If they switch to the 3-4 the D would take a major step back, like the Jets for the past 2 years forcing good players to play positions they can’t (Vilma & Goldstin). The OLB in a 3-4 is a tough position to pick up and you need to be a temendous athlete we don’t have that just speed pass rushers that come off the edge (Osi & Kiwi). If they do this they would have to sign a guy like Bart Scott from the Ravens in FA because he plays in that system and is good.
by Landeta on Jan 18, 2009 8:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Capers did do a good Job in other spots
He was the Steelers D-coordinator in early 90’s w/ the likes of Gregg Lloyd and Kevin Green. After he was fired by the Panthers in 98 TC hired him to be his DC in Jacksonville. Their D was the week spot prior to Capers arrivile and he did a very good job with that Unit in 1999 as they went 14-2.
by Landeta on Jan 18, 2009 8:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Rams fan here...
thanks everybody for your insight…I truly hope your loss can be our gain…most Ram fans are pretty excited about this hire…of course, considering what we have been through the last couple of years, almost anybody would be an improvement…I say ALMOST…I thought we were getting Jason Garrett for about four hours yesterday!!!
by tbell61 on Jan 18, 2009 4:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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