Tynes over Carney a mistake

by Ed Valentine on Sep 23, 2008 7:00 AM EDT in News Comment 23 comments

All signs indicate that Lawrence Tynes will reclaim the New York Giants' placekicking job from John Carney when they resume play against Seattle Oct. 5 following their bye week.

Let me say this clearly. That is a mistake. I love Tynes, and what he means to Giants' history. His kick put Big Blue in the Super Bowl last season and we can never forget the sight of him sprinting to the locker room like a madman.

But, this is about now. And now, I believe the Giants have a better kicker already in place.

Face it, we support Tynes and we know he comes through far more often than he fails. Yet, watching him line up to kick makes you uncomfortable each and every time. Doesn't it?

Have you had that feeling with Carney? I haven't. The guy is 44, he's been in the league for 20 years and he has been perfect this season, including 9-for-9 on field-goal attempts. His kickoffs have also been excellent, especially for a guy who has been around so long.

I know the Giants will give Tynes back his job as soon as he is completely recovered from his training camp knee injury. I know he probably deserves that much respect from the Giants after kicking them to the Super Bowl.

Carney knows his time is running short, as well.

"Best-case scenario for me, I wouldn’t mind hanging out here as an insurance policy for a couple of weeks, just until Lawrence gets a game or two under his belt and everybody’s comfortable with that," said Carney.

I just also know that there will come a time this season when the Giants need a big kick to win a crucial game. And I know I will be wishing like hell that it was Carney, not Tynes, lining up to try it.

		Field Goals								PAT
	G	0-19	20-29	30-39	40-49	50+	FGM	FGA	PCT	XPM	XPA	PCT	pts
2008 - John Carney	3	0 - 0	5 - 5	2 - 2	2 - 2	0 - 0	9	9	100.0%	8	8	100.0%	35

0 recs | Comment 23 comments | Share

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Yeah man.

You summed it up pretty well with" watching him line up to kick makes you uncomfortable each and every time". The worst part is that this includes PATS’. Just because he was one out of three to win the GB game he’ll be back.

We're only gonna score 17 points?

by big blue wrecking crew on Sep 23, 2008 7:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well said

I’m not a Tynes fan, never have been. I don’t trust a kicker who misses as many PATS as he does. The kick against GB was great, but it never should have come to that. He misses that 3rd FG and GB wins, Tynes would have had to walk home from GB. You can’t keep the guy because of one kick.

He’s Jay Feely but taller.

Giants fan from the womb to the tomb

by Jim Schmiedeberg on Sep 23, 2008 8:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Tynes

I would have no problem keeping him if the Giants didn’t have a better option. But, in my opinion, they do.

by Ed Valentine on Sep 23, 2008 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Carney's kickoffs suck

Yeah, he’s money on those FGA < 45 yds. But I think he’s also one of the reason why the Giants have been having so much touble on kick return coverage. He kicks those low line drives that never travel farther than the 10 yard line, guaranteeing the opposing return man at least 10 yards and a good head of steam. Tynes’ leg is much stronger.

Also bear in mind that Carney right now is fresh and kicking in ideal weather conditions. Will he be automatic on those 40+ yarder FGs when his leg starts getting a little tired, the winds start swirling and the precipitation gets heavy? I’m not so sure. Recall that Tynes kicked a 47 yarder in the worst imaginable weather conditions to put the Giants in the Super Bowl. Does the 44-year old Carney make that kick? Somehow I don’t think so.

Yes, I know Tynes is not ideal. That he has been prone to missing chippies and the occasional extra point. But he’s still a much better option than Carney over the course of a season.

by knickfan on Sep 23, 2008 11:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Suck?

by Ed Valentine on Sep 23, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hardly

think they suck. he has consistently hit the ball inside the 10. If you think his kickoffs suck you haven’t been watching what I’ve been watching. Incidentally, field goals are more important than kickoffs in my opinion. It’s probably a moot point, but Carney hasn’t gotten to spend 20 years in the league by accident.

by Ed Valentine on Sep 23, 2008 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tynes

Yes, kicked a 47 yarder in cold weather. Did you forget he missed a 43 and 36 yarder in the same game?

As far as Carney being “fresh”, we’re not exactly talking about a running back carrying the ball 25 times here. We’re talking about a player who is used maybe 10 plays a game, who is involved in no physical play whatsoever. (Unlike Matty Bahr)

Plus, Carney has been in the league since Moses wore short pants, I have a feeling he has probably kicked in a cold weather game or two.

Again, Tynes is Jay Feely, only taller.

Giants fan from the womb to the tomb

by Jim Schmiedeberg on Sep 23, 2008 11:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

"Tynes is Jay Feely only taller"

I agree, I was reading another thread about Elis’ comebacks and was reminded of that Seattle game a few years ago. You remember horrible loud environment where they had lost badly the year before and Feely misses 3 FG’s that would have won the game.
On the other hand the league should consider letting Carney wear a Darth Vader helmet with NY on the side.

We're only gonna score 17 points?

by big blue wrecking crew on Sep 24, 2008 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget

Carney’s had his big misses too http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_City_Relay

by queler on Sep 23, 2008 11:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hang time

is more the issue here than how far the ball travels.

One of the Giants’ real weak points this year has been their inability to consistently contain the opposing teams’ kick return man. Some of that may be due to the fact that one of our special team aces, Tyree, is out. But a bigger factor, I think, is that Carney’s poor hang time makes it nearly impossible for our coverage team to get downfield in time. Tynes is just so much more reliable at putting air under the ball than Carney is.

And I couldn’t disagree more with your statement that “field goals are more important than kickoffs.” Field position is probably one of the most critical – and least understood – aspects of the game. Keep giving teams like Dallas and Philly short fields to work with and your team is in for a very long afternoon.

Thanks, Carney. We had some laughs but now it’s time to move on.

by knickfan on Sep 23, 2008 12:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Honestly

that has always been an issue with the giants. It was with Feely. It was with Tynes. Hell, it was with Josh Huston in pre-season.
As for field goals vs. kickoffs to me it’s simple. Field goals = points. Kickoffs = field position, which MIGHT translate to points.
You miss field goals, you lose games.
I agree with you about short fields, but I don’t believe Carney’s kickoffs have been an issue at all.
Field position is also why I want Domenik Hixon returning punts instead of RW McQuarters. He is much more likely to change the field position once he catches the ball than RW is.

by Ed Valentine on Sep 23, 2008 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok so I took a look at the numbers

Last year, Giants opponents average kick return was 23.1 yards, that was with Larry Tynes doing the kickoffs.

So far this year, with Carney doing the kicking, the average kick return for a Giants opponent is 20.6 yards

Field position guarantees you nothing if you aren’t scoring points. Do you want to be 10-6 with a Wild Card and good field position all year, or 12-4 with a division title and homefield because your kicker won 2 games for you down the stretch? Go look at the list of 8-8 and 9-7 teams last season, and tell me how many games they lost because of a missed FG.

A reliable kicker can win you 2 or 3 games every season. Good field position wins you nothing except good field position.

Without a reliable kicker, the 1986 Giants might finish 12-4 (losing the Minny and Denver games won with last minute FG’s), are the wild card instead of the division winner, and the NFC Championship is played at RFK instead of the windstorm at Giants Stadium.

Without a reliable kicker, the 1990 Giants maybe don’t win the NFC Championship, or the Super Bowl, which were both decided on Matt Bahr field goals. Ask the 1990 Buffalo Bills about the importance of a reliable FG kicker.

2005: Jay Feely misses 3 FG’s in the game against Seattle that the Giants lost. That loss was the difference between being 11-5 and 12-4, which would have been good enough for home field advantage in the playoffs that year. (Seattle finished 13-3, losing to the Giants would have left them 12-4 as well, with the Giants owning the tiebreaker)

Giants fan from the womb to the tomb

by Jim Schmiedeberg on Sep 23, 2008 1:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yes, the avearage return tells us something.

So does how far the ball has traveled when it’s kicked. No idea what the stats are, but it seems Carney is kicking it about as far as Tynes did, even if lower. If that’s the case, Carney isn’t hurting the team. I recall when Danelo handled kickoffs (almost a guarantee of a touchback) and someone else kicked FGs. I’m not suggesting we add another placekicker because I’m sure JR and TC would do it if they thought it necessary. Guys who are almost automatically good for a touchback don’t grow on trees.

by george cronin on Sep 23, 2008 1:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Touchbacks

Remember, the kickoff comes from the 30 now. You don’t get too many touchbacks, anyway.

by Ed Valentine on Sep 23, 2008 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We don't necessarilywant any touchbacks (unless Devin Hester is returning)

Ed, I have to disagree with you on this one. A sky high kickoff that lands on the goal line and gives the coverage team a good shot of pinning the offense inside the 15 or even the 10 is my idea of what we should be doing. If we can do that, hold them to three and out we get the ball back just over mid field nearly every time. Great for maintaining time of possesion and keeps the opposing team locked into their own territory. Not to mention the offensive possibilities afforded by that kind of field position.

Carney just can’t do that. For that matter Tynes isn’t very good at it either. The problem with Carney is that I doubt TC would send him out for anything more than a 45 yarder. That limits your options.

I know we all relish the automatic kicks Carney gives us on the short ones, but in reality we need somebody with more leg. Just my opinion, of course.

by giant fan since 57 on Sep 23, 2008 2:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well

We can disagree and still be friends. I think a FG kicker’s job is to be virtually automatic from inside 40, maybe 45. Carney does that. Anything after 45 is a crapshoot, anyway. As for kickoffs, I point to the 20.6 yards per return again so far this season (3 yards better than Tynes did last year). If it was all about kickoffs, Josh Huston would be on this team.
Anyway, we know this job is going to Tynes. Carney has been a great replacement.
BTW, isn’t it great that THIS is the best we can do for a controversial argument?

by Ed Valentine on Sep 23, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

KEEP THEM BOTH!

That’s a ~~simple~~ solution….

Joe L

by kinglongo on Sep 23, 2008 3:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

How?

I suppose they could for a while, but as injuries pile up throughout the season you won’t be able to justify it.

by Ed Valentine on Sep 23, 2008 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Looks great in pre-game

I watched Carney during pre-game warmups on Sunday and he was hitting 54 yarders with ease. How could the Giants organization possibly go back to Tynes! You need to have confidence when your kicker steps on the field. I went to Giants training camp this year and saw Tynes miss a field goal that would have given his team mates the rest of the day off from practice. TYNES MUST GOOO

NFL Floor Mats, Car Mats, Area Rugs

by sportsfloormats on Sep 23, 2008 11:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs