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5 Questions with 'Cincy Jungle'

Cincyjungle_mediumThe Cincinnnati Bengals are in the New York Giants' crosshairs this weekend. That means Josh Kirkendall of SB Nation's Bengals' blog, Cincy Jungle, is in mine.

I'll be honest, the 0-2 Bengals haven't been good. In fact, they haven't been good for several seasons now. In this week's '5 Questions' segment, I didn't skirt around that topic. I tried to get Josh to talk about why the Bengals have been so bad for so long.

He didn't back away from the topic, and it made for an interesting interview.

Star-divide

1. Big Blue View: This is long-winded, but, I read the following quote on kypost.com. "They can't get the right number of players on the field. The offense can't get into the end zone. The defense? Another sad story. Around Cincinnati, it's yesterday once more. The bad old days have returned for a franchise that thought it had finally escaped them." Question: I know the Bengals are 0-2, but are things really that bad?

Cincy Jungle: If you base conclusions on the team’s efforts, excuses, press conferences, and attitude, there are disturbing parallels. However, it’s generally a fear of repeating history, losing as badly as we have, rather than a trend that this team will become the once-again historically painful losers. As before, the team doesn’t have any leadership, or guys that other players lean on to motivate them. That’s the most significant similarity to the "bad old days". The biggest difference is that this team is more talented and on paper have the potential to do great things. However, potential is about as valuable in the NFL as used toilet paper.

YD3M3098-Large-crop

2. BBV: Carson Palmer's numbers are awful through two games. A 37.1 quarterback rating. Only 49% completions. No touchdowns. Three picks. What is up with that? Is this guy really a star, or he is overrated?

Jungle: Neither. Give him a good offensive line, where he’s not worried about having his knee ripped to shreds or having a bloody broken nose, he’ll pick you apart all day long; provided the wide receivers actually get separation in their routes and the play-calling calls for shorter passes (three-step variety). The Bengals offense is mired with awful play-calling adjustments, a mediocre rushing offense, and simply a bunch of talented leaderless players too damned concerned about contracts and changing last names.

I’m not letting Palmer fully off the hook here. This team not having a leader to rally the troops, I place squarely on Palmer’s shoulders.

People often disagree with me on my assessment; Palmer can only do as well as the talent around him. While that’s true, Palmer is also the type of talent that he should make everyone else around him better. And that’s simply not showing.



Passing Rushing Sacks
G Rating Comp Att Pct Yds Y/G Y/A TD INT Rush Yds Y/G Avg TD Sack YdsL
2008 - Carson Palmer 2 37.1 25 51 49.0 228 114.0 4.5 0 3 3 15 7.5 5.0 0 3 17


3. BBV: Tell us a little bit about this team. We know Palmer. We know Ocho. We know about T.J. Houshmandzadeh. Tell us about some other players we should be aware of.

To be honest, the part of this team that I’m high on is the defense (I know, of all things, right?). We won’t shut people down, won’t get six sacks in a game, or will we force five turnovers. In the past couple of seasons, this defense was known for losing games. The biggest difference is that we acquired enough talent to revise the opinion that, while the defense won’t win us games, they won’t lose them either.

With that said, we have two second-year safeties that are fun to watch. Marvin White is a nasty hitter, though the failure to wrap has been a frustration. Chinedum Ndukwe has been a play maker, and plays with good intensity. We also have two first-round cornerbacks in Leon Hall and Johnathan Joseph (not expected to play Sunday); these guys are talented enough to be put on an island, allowing for added blitzes and congested underneath coverage in zones. Keith Rivers has performed as advertised as the team’s weak-side linebacker and defensive end Antwan Odom put more pressure on the quarterback against the Titans than we’ve seen from a single player since Robert Geathers’ 10.5 sacks in 2006.

While I’m high on the defense this year, we haven’t played a quality offense yet in the Ravens or Titans. So the Giants offense against the Bengals defense will be really interesting. However, since we lost Johnathan Joseph to an ankle sprain last week, the Giants will probably have their way with backup David Jones likely getting the start.

4. BBV: The Giants are defending Super Bowl champs and are trying for a fourth straight playoff berth. The Bengals, as a franchise, can't seem to get themselves headed in the right direction. Can you put your finger on a difference between the two organizations?

Jungle: The Bengals have a meddling owner that truly believes he inherited his father’s football genes, no general manager, the league’s smallest scouting department, etc. I could go on, but me eyes are getting puffy.

5. BBV: OK, last question. I think BBV fans would be disappointed if I didn't ask it, since I always do. If you could pick one player (or coach or executive since last week's choice was Tom Coughlin) off the Giants roster and bring him to Cincinnati who would it be? Why?

Jungle: Brandon Jacobs. We need a power back after we released Rudi Johnson. Chris Perry, Kenny Watson and DeDe Dorsey aren’t power backs; they’re more scat backs that live better off the edges than between the tackles.

Tom Coughlin was a thought too. If you remember, before Coughlin was hired by the Giants, the Bengals front office actually favored him before Mike Brown was convinced by his daughter to take Marvin Lewis. But I shook the thought; no head coach can expect to succeed in these conditions or circumstances.

Yet, we love our Bengals in Cincinnati.

FINAL THOUGHTS: I love Josh's honesty here about the state of the Bengals and the reasons why they have generally been bottom-feeders in recent times. ... I was a little stunned by his assessment of Carson Palmer, who many have always thought of as a superstar. I have always wanted to know what he had done to deserve that billing, and it seems Josh isn't sure his team's QB is any better than average. When he talked about "give him a good offensive line ... he'll pick you apart" I could have sworn he was talking about Kurt Warner. ... As for who he would take off the Giants' roster, it speaks volumes that Coughlin was a consideration for the second consecutive week.

Head on over to Cincy Jungle to see what they are saying about Sunday. Josh asked me to do a "when the Giants have the ball ... when the Bengals have the ball" type review. I'm sure you will enjoy it.

0 recs  |  Comment 19 comments |

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Comments

Display:

Good Interview. Nice honest answers. Looking at the stats we should kill this team, I’m just hoping to see we do.

Now I have to decide who to start this week in fantasy.

I have LT, Jacbos and Turner. I’m leaning towards Jacobs vs Cinci, and Turner vs KC.

by Woogie526 on Sep 18, 2008 8:09 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Bengals

I still think this can be a dangerous team and more so than the Rams. They still have a ton of talent on offense. That being said, the Giants should win. This team is in too much turmoil.

I agree, very interesting comments on Palmer. But maybe he doesn’t make people around him better because he’s fed up with all the BS. I mean he’s surrounded by criminals and plays for an organization that is completely clueless. It has to bring him down some.

by potroast on Sep 18, 2008 8:18 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Bengals

do have weapons. But, it seems they are a fractured, leaderless team.

by Ed Valentine on Sep 18, 2008 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds Like Us

Back In the Day

have a meddling owner that truly believes he inherited his father’s football genes, no general manager, the league’s smallest scouting department, etc.

Thank God for whatisname Mara for bringing in George Young

by The Pale Scot on Sep 18, 2008 8:37 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I just read the comments

over at Cincy Jungle’s preview of the week, the Bengals fans don’t sound optimistic. This is my favorite one:

Bengals explode on O:
45-17 Giants

It feels pretty good to be one of the feared teams in the league again, doesn’t it? Hopefully they don’t blow this thing against a very beatable opponent. I feel bad for Bengals fans though: they really looked like they made a breakthrough 3 years ago, then Palmer gets his knee shattered, they get knocked out of the playoffs, half their roster gets convicted of something, and there goes that.

On a personal bias level, I’m hoping the Giants blow them out, and Ocho Cinco catches a few meaningless TDs in the 4th quarter to help my fantasy team :)

by cjmulrain on Sep 18, 2008 8:39 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Blow out

The Giants generally make games closer than they need to. The fourth quarter against the Rams was a great sign. I want to see the Giants consistently beat up on weaker teams, not just eek out victories.

by Ed Valentine on Sep 18, 2008 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bengals

that is a team that seems to genuinely dislike each other. they have talent all over the place, but as Josh said, they care more about what’s best for themselves as to what’s best for the team.

that being said, i’m glad this game isn’t being played in late October/early November (aka the annual Giants’ “home game letdown day” – i.e. Minnesota last year and in ‘05). if the Bengals have any dignity left, they’ll put up a fight in this game. i don’t think it’ll get as out of hand as St. Louis last week. but if the Giants get up early, i fully expect Cincy to wave the white flag.

as for the D, Nedu (Ndukwe) was a kid that i loved at ND – hard-nosed and a ball hawk. i also think Rivers is going to be a beast ala Patrick Willis.

by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Sep 18, 2008 8:46 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I liked Rivers

a lot at USC. If you were building a defense, you could do worse than just drafting guys from USC and Miami every year…

by cjmulrain on Sep 18, 2008 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

WOW

I just checked over at Cincy Jungle. They haven’t posted Ed’s answers yet but,apparently the mood over there is not conducive to any sort of ambitious behavior anyway. Some of the fan posts: “Marvin Lewis has gone insane”’ , “Ochostinko”, “I’m Done” ….. WOW …….Theres also a general attitude that their offensive line couldn’t block a girl scout troop……..This game has potential…..for us anyway!

We're only gonna score 17 points?

by big blue wrecking crew on Sep 18, 2008 9:24 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

yeah, Carsen Pammer

WHY ARE YOU SUCH A DISAPPOINTMENT TO MY FANTASY TEAM YOU JERK.

awful awful 4th round pick.

by kendynamo on Sep 18, 2008 11:20 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

As long

as he continues to disappoint you this week, Giants fans will be happy.

by Ed Valentine on Sep 18, 2008 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i also shouldnt be over reacting considering

eli is my starter now and looking like a sweet 9th round sleeper. turns out playing in a league full of gaints haters can have its advantages.

by kendynamo on Sep 18, 2008 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is it any coincidence

That when I read this article, the little ad banner on the page was for “Obituary Archive”?

I feel bad for Bengal fans, longing for the days of Siete’ Esiason and Sam Wyche

Giants fan from the womb to the tomb

by Jim Schmiedeberg on Sep 18, 2008 1:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I have to say I am one who thought Palmer was a super star

and I think he still could be one. He has great instincts, can lay it out there with the best of them, throws a great lng ball,and isn’t afraid to stand tall in the pocket. I think this year is the aberation and he will show us that before the end of the season. He just can’t do it by himself.

by giant fan since 57 on Sep 18, 2008 5:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Cincy Jungle traffic

A couple points.

Palmer is a stud- or at least he was. I’m not so sure anymore. Add to that infamous knee from late ‘05, the pasting he took in the pre-season this year, mix in the frustration of running an offense scripted by the most predictable playcaller(OC Bob Bratkowski) since Woody freaking Hayes, factor in his two favorite targets(Chad/TJ) not being available- for whatever reason- for offseason workouts and his third favorite(Henry) being suspended, back, arrested, cut, acquitted, and resigned, and you’ve kind of got the perfect storm set up against him realizing that potential. At this point, he may actually be suffering from PTSD back there in the pocket. Seriously though, Josh is dead on about his failure to assert himself as this team’s leader. By this point, I’d expect Bratkowski to be out of the loop, with Carson calling his own plays like Manning.

For some reason- comfort? cowardice? insanity?, Marvin Lewis and the aforementioned Bratkowski began chanting the mantra “we are( or have to get back to being) a power running team” after the essential disappointment of last season. If, and it’s debatable, we ever were a power running team, it was before Lewis’ tenure, back in the days of Corey Dillon running wild led by Rich Braham©, Eric Steinbach(G), and Willie Anderson in his prime. None of those folks are still here- and the recently cut Rudi Johnson was never anything but serviceable. So, what we had was; A) a phenomenally talented, pure dropback passer B) Two All-Pro wide receivers C) an offensive line built to pass protect(17 sacks all of last year) and seemingly incapable of dominating a line of scrimmage and D) a crop of running backs that didn’t cause anyone to lose sleep. Yep, that spells power running game right there.

Okay, so, what are the stepd we could have taken to become that power rushing team?
Could’ve traded Chad to the Skins for 2 first round picks and then used those picks to bring in a stud guard like Branden Albert or a hard running back like Mendenhall. Nope, we got two athletic wideouts and a pass blocking specialist(OT Anthony Collins) in the draft.
Could have went shopping in free agency for either a good blocking tight end or another lineman skilled in the craft. Nope, we picked up receiving TE- and would be gospel singer, Ben Utecht.
Hmm, could have given the injured much of ‘07 Rudi a shot to see if he’d regained his form and could knock some people over. Nope, cut him and opted to go with the fleet Chris Perry, who’s more of a threat in- you guessed it- the passing game.

We’re all assuming, after watching the preseason and the first two games this year, that our coaching staff went with the Stuart Smalley/Daily Affirmation approach- the “We’re big enough. We’re strong enough. And, doggone it, we’re a power running team”- to achieve their stated goal. Because they certainly didn’t do anything else to make it happen.

This offense, right now, is like a bunch of thoroughbreds that have been slapped into yokes and set to plowing a field. It’s both a waste of horses and an inefficient way to get the crops planted. We should be wide open, no huddle, going deep early and often…

I think it’s pretty remarkable how your D has taken the hits of losing Strahan and Umenyora without seemingly missing a beat. Sunday, for us, should be pretty damn ugly but, given the sheer contrarian nature of this team, keep on your toes.

by IgnatiusJReilly on Sep 19, 2008 6:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks

for the thoughtful post. It was a pretty insightful look at the Bengals. Good luck — starting in Week 4!

by Ed Valentine on Sep 20, 2008 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Damned good post Reilly!

  Good read! .

We're only gonna score 17 points?

by big blue wrecking crew on Sep 20, 2008 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh and,

Damned good job “over there” Valentine!

We're only gonna score 17 points?

by big blue wrecking crew on Sep 20, 2008 8:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Um, okay

So, could we, like, make an arrangement, a sister cities type deal with Cincinnati and, say, Hoboken, NJ, where we could feel- once removed, pride by proxy, if you will, in our indirect status as step-defending world champions? We could hold a meet and greet, a cyber get together at, assuming it’s still there/open, Maxwell’s, where we’d pass around Lord Lombardi’s Cup and gulp Brooklyn Lager from it….what?…it’s not a cup?…hmm, okay, then, a game of politically correct Smear the Same-Sex Inclined Sterling Silver Ballcarrier? I’m sure we could come up with a care package of Skyline Chili and a genuine Pete Rose autograph- and bobblehead. What do you say?

by IgnatiusJReilly on Sep 21, 2008 9:27 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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