With Osi gone, time to lower expectations
By now you have heard the devastating news that Osi Umenyiora will be lost to the Giants for the season after suffering a knee injury Saturday against the New York Jets.
This is one of the reasons why it is incredibly difficult to repeat as Super Bowl champion, or even to be a powerhouse year after year.
Here is coach Tom Coughlin discussing the injury.
My number one concern is about Osi. I did talk to him on the phone a short while ago and told him that he is in everyone’s thoughts and prayers and that this is something that we, in talking with Dr. Warren, Dr. Warren has convinced us that this repair will put him in great shape going forward and because of that we are certainly 100 percent behind the decision. We just hope that the surgery goes well on Tuesday and that it is a full recovery and that he is even better than ever here shortly down the road. As for the rest of us, we received this information this morning. It was probably around noon I think when I talked to Dr. Warren, and it was obviously the news I didn’t want to hear, but after listening to the explanation and Dr. Warren’s thoughts on it, I am convinced that this is the right procedure, the right way to go. I tried to talk to the coaches about it and I assured the coaches that we will have to be at our best because our team will know before they come in here tomorrow because of the media and we have to do a great job of getting our players refocused and our thoughts on going forward.
Coughlin was also asked about the possibility of Michael Strahan returning or Mathias Kiwanuka moving back to defensive end full time. He was non-committal on both questions.
Don't get your hopes up, but Strahan did not immediately shoot down the possibility of returning to help the Giants. He said only "to say if I would or wouldn't is premature."
Let's assume that No. 92 will not ride to the rescue, as much as we might wish for it to happen.
The obvious move is Kiwanuka back to defensive end.
I think it is a move that Coughlin and defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo are loathe to make. Yet, provided Strahan stays retired, I don't see what else the Giants can do.
Even if the Giants don't completely abandon using Kiwanuka as a linebacker -- a position I think he has been growing into quite nicely -- they will be forced to use him heavily at defensive end.
Spagnuolo talks all the time about finding a way to get the best players on the field for the most snaps -- which is why Kiwanuka was moved to linebacker in the first place since the Giants had Umenyiora, Strahan and Justin Tuck at defensive end.
It's really simple if you look at it that way. Dave Tollefson and Renaldo Wynn are decent fill-in defensive ends. But, Tollefson/Wynn and DE with Kiwi at linebacker is not nearly as good a combination as Kiwanuka at defensive end with Gerris Wilkinson and Danny Clark manning the outside linebacker slots.
In short, Wilkinson is a more talented player than Tollefson or Wynn, so the Giants will need to get him on the field.
Now for the dose of reality. Coughlin, Spagnuolo and the other Giants players will talk bravely in the days to come. in truth, though, whatever chance the Giants might have had to repeat has gone up in smoke.
The thing that made the Giants defense special last season was the number of pure pass rushers the Giants could employ, and the variety of positions in which they could employ them.
That flexibility and depth is now gone. Without Umenyiora and Strahan -- and even if Kiwanuaka moves back to defensive end -- the Giants don't have a single defensive lineman who demands a double team.
No matter who the Giants utilize, and where they position them, that means opposing offenses will have one more free pass blocker to handle the Giants diminshed pass rush, and to pick up the blitzers they will continue to employ.
That, of course, means the sometimes shaky Giants secondary will be more vulnerable than ever. There is simply no way the pass rush will bail them out as often as it did last season.
Don't get me wrong here. I am not forecasting that the Giants will fall apart and go 3-13. I think, though, that we need to temper our expectations.
This team can still be good. There are plenty of good players on the defense, and youngsters to watch like Wilkinson, Kenny Phillips, Kiwanuka and Terrell Thomas. On offense, there are a ton of weapons in the backfield and at wide receiver.
There is also a quality coaching staff with a terrific defensive coordinator who will figure out a way to maximize the talent he has left.
I just don't think this team, with the losses it has suffered on defense, can be special.
Just getting back to the playoffs would be an outstanding accomplishment.
Your thoughts?
0 recs |
21 comments
Comments
We're going to find out
just how creative Spanuolo is in a hurry. Corners and safeties can blitze occasionally too. Way back when the giants had linebackers that were often in the opposing backfield as well. Still you can’t replace a pass rusher like Osi. Interesting to see what new wrinkles pop up during the season.
We're only gonna score 17 points?
by big blue wrecking crew on Aug 25, 2008 6:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Spags
is tremendous. Assuming Strahan does not return — and we will see — I think Kiwanuka and Tuck absolutely have to remain healthy.
by Ed Valentine on Aug 25, 2008 6:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Double team
Maybe I’m dreaming, but I was picturing Tuck to be the kind of player at DE that would demand a double team. Maybe even more so than Osi (he had half of his sacks in 1 game!). With Kiwi back on the other side, which I see as the only reasonable solution at this point, the Giants D will still be very good. But your right Ed, they won’t be great. They lost a lot of their depth this offseason. Bringing in waves of DEs is what them great last year and Kiwi-Tuck is not as good as Osi-Tuck with Kiwi also on the field (and no Stray).
But I’m not tempering my expectations because I didn’t think they’d win a SB again and this is exactly why. It’s very hard stay healthy enough to win. I still see them making the playoffs and making some noise though. At the very least, it was a position where they do have good depth. If it was Eli or Pierce, then I’d say all hope is lost.
Good point on Spags BBWC. He’ll have to earn his money now.
by potroast on Aug 25, 2008 7:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Like you,pot, I have no need to temper my expectations. To have expected (rather than hoped)
to win the SB again was absurd (it would be for any SB winner.) On the other hand, I see no problem with tempering expectations for those who were anticipating an SB repeat. I do think the D will be a lot of fun to watch with Spags comintg up with lots of new wrinkles. One other thing: Our secondary will be better, and I believe that overall the team will be as well despite the loss of OSI.
by george cronin on Aug 25, 2008 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still believe
this team can be a lot of fun to watch. There are plenty of things to feel good about.
by Ed Valentine on Aug 25, 2008 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tuck
He probably will see some double teams, you just don’t think of him right away as a guy who ‘demands’ it. I thought he was better than Osi or Strahan last year. The question is, how much of that was because those guys were both there, and Tuck was often inside against guards who were too slow to deal with him? I guess we will find out.
by Ed Valentine on Aug 25, 2008 8:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
the way I see it though
Is that Tuck is good enough to demand double teams. Whether he gets them or not is up to the opposing coach, but if he DOESN’T get them, that’s actually a good thing b/c then he’ll just get to the QB a lot easier, until teams wise up and start doubling up on him. Remember, there was a time when even Strahan didn’t automatically get double teams.
by cjmulrain on Aug 25, 2008 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're pretty strong at DT right now
And I don’t think the secondary is as shaky as it was this time last year. Webster and Ross came along nicely in ‘07, and now we’re adding Phillips to the mix.
There’s no making up for the loss of Osi, but it would be a huge help if the offense could consistently sustain drives, put up 2-3 TDs, and keep the turnovers (Eli picks, Jacobs/Bradshaw fumbles) to a minimum. Saturday wasn’t encouraging, but we have the pieces. We’ll see. It’s a long season.
by drunkUncle on Aug 25, 2008 10:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good point about the offense, DU
With our running game, a more mature Eli and a couple of guys who offer the potential for the long ball threat, the offense should be much more challenging for opposing Ds.
by george cronin on Aug 25, 2008 11:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Is this too simplified?
Here’s a very simple way of looking at this: move Kiwi back to DE. And the reason I say that is because you’ve now got much greater depth at LB than you do at DE. If Kiwi moves back to DE, a posiiton he would seem to be able to slide right in and excel, you can then have a base set of Tuck/Kiwi and rotate in Wynn and Tollefson (sp?). So to me that starts you off with 2 very good DE’s (and guys capable of playing the run or dropping off into coverege in zone blitz situations) and allows you to rotate in two other guys capable of playing in the system.
I think then your LB corps is weakened slightly – however, the key to the Giants D is to attack and with their depth at the LB I think they can just keep rotating fresh bodies in all year.
Besides, Kiwi is young and smart; I firmly believe that he can handle the move back to his natural position (mentally and physically). Then you reassess where to put him next season.
Is that too simple of a way to look at it?
by Cody K on Aug 25, 2008 11:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not too simple
That’s why the Giants were so smart to stock up on DEs. They make this simple move and it cures a lot of ills. This is exactly what they should do.
by potroast on Aug 25, 2008 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Moot point?
Of course this makes it a moot point.
by Cody K on Aug 25, 2008 11:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No, it doesn't
Because he would ‘consider’ it doesn’t mean he would do it. I think there are way too many fans assuming Strahan will return. He might, but I still think the odds are heavily stacked against it. Cody K has the right idea. As I said, the Giants are better with Kiwi/Wilkinson than with Kiwi/Tollefson or Wynn. Which means, Kiwi has to play DE. And yes, the Giants would still be very good that way. But, very thin in the event of any further injuries.
by Ed Valentine on Aug 25, 2008 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus
I know Stray came back into shape quickly last year, but we all know that the retirement talk last year was BS and he was staying in shape to come back. He’s now been in the retirement mind frame for a few months and I’m sure it would take a hell of a lot longer to come back this time. Plus it’s not the worse thing for this team to get better without him, since they wouldn’t have him for more than a year anyway. Take some lumps at that position this year and we’ll be better off for it down the road.
by potroast on Aug 25, 2008 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
strahan
I don’t think strahan’s in shape right now, which is huge. And don’t forget he hasn’t been a full-time player really for three years, between injuries and rotating in last year. I’m not positive his body could handle being the man for 16 games anymore.
by queler on Aug 25, 2008 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its just money
IF the gints want to PSL the fans that have paying for decades, suffering through the wilderness years, enduring pain that still echos today through the efforts of cruel blogmasters (http://www.bigblueview.com/2008/6/28/557375/the-ray-handley-all-stars#7044587) then they can, as the sergeant used to say, have the courtesy offering a reach-around. We have the cap room , spend the F*@#ing money. At the moment he’s not in shape and 10 lbs. lighter, fine, he can be the designated pass rusher, and part of the rotation. Mike played EVERY DOWN for a 2-3 year stretch, the gints have always gotten value for every dollar they put in his pocket, And they were going to pay Taylor 8 mil. but they wouldn’t pay Mike? Who do YOU think is a better DE?
All we need from the deal is Mike in game shape for the second half of the season; playoffs or not, you know it won’t be decided until the last game of the season, we (fans) exist so the Giants can torture us. The least they can do is buy us flowers and novacaine. You Youngsters; the yearly goal is not the Superbowl, its beating the crap out of Dallas, humiliating them, like last year in the playoffs ( I would have died happy that day, I would). And don’t forget the intangibles he brings to the locker room, this is the guy that said he would walk through walls for coughlin. This team does have the potential to be better than last year’s if Eli and Corey don’t backslide, but at this point there aren’t going to be any blue chippers becoming available to blow the cap space on, and those dollars don’t roll over into the next season. Use em or lose em.
by The Pale Scot on Aug 25, 2008 12:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You forget
This is Strahan’s call, not the Giants. Of course, Jerry Reese has already made the call to Strahan. Remember, Michael left the Giants — they didn’t leave him.
by Ed Valentine on Aug 25, 2008 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice
Way to link back to one of my stories, it was great to go back and read all the great comments
And I never did hear from your lawyer, the meds must have kicked in
Giants fan from the womb to the tomb
by Jim Schmiedeberg on Aug 25, 2008 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a good time
For him to retire, but remember the gints wouldn’t redo his contract, and I was good with that. For both sides, at his age Mike knows playing more will adversely affect his health down the road, and the gints didn’t want to pay extra for an aging player, and had the personnel to avoid doing so. The position of both sides were rational. Now its different, Spag’s D needs a surplus of pass-rushers for optimal results. Strahan is the best option; knows the D, knows the team, was still a very good ball player last year. If a bribe is needed to “facilitate” deal, open the wallet buddy. The giants are not good enough to not try. Mike will still draw attention, and that leads to opportunities for others like Antonio’s open field tackles that shut down those screen plays in the playoffs, An extra guard out in the flat and that doesn’t happen.
by The Pale Scot on Aug 25, 2008 12:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm just confused
Is this a tear in the meniscus or a messed up MCL? I keep hearing different things. If it’s a meniscus tear, then it’s gotta be a really horrible one, one that a simple trim can’t fix.
GDit, I hope we’ll be alright without Osi.
by NYinCalifornia on Aug 26, 2008 1:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
thats is a shame about Osi
well, look on the bright side, at least you’ll get a higher draft pick next April.
In Romo we Trust
by Terry on Aug 26, 2008 3:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

by 



















