Simms completes BBV All-Time Team

by Ed Valentine on Jul 18, 2008 7:00 AM EDT in New York Giants All-Time Team

Phil Simms, as I think most of us figured, was an overwhelming winner in the voting for the quarterback position on our Big Blue View All-Time Giants Team.

Simms received 116 of the 144 votes cast (80 percent). Y.A. Tittle got 13 votes (9 percent).

So, our team is now complete. What do you guys think of it?

I think it's one helluva team. A coach (Bill Parcells) who will one day be in the Hall of Fame.

Four Hall of Famers on defense (Lawrence Taylor, Sam Huff, Harry Carson and Emlen Tunnell) with a fifth (Michael Strahan) soon to be elected.

Three Hall of Famers on offense (Mel Hein, Rosey Brown and Frank Gifford) with a fourth likely to be elected one day (Tiki Barber).

I can quibble with a couple of the selections. I thought Pete Gogolak was a far better choice than Matt Bahr as placekicker. I would have like to have seen Jimmy Patton earn a safety slot instead of Spider Lockhart, but I understand the demographic reasons for that.

I learned that the two weakest positions in the long, proud history of the Giants are probably cornerback and offensive guard.

I learned a lot about many of the old-time Giants during this process, and that alone made it worthwhile.

So, what do you guys think of our team? I'm anxious to hear your thoughts.

Big Blue View All-Time Giants Team

Coach

Bill Parcells

Kickers

Punter -- Sean Landeta
Placekicker -- Matt Bahr

Defense

Defensive End -- Michael Strahan
Defensive End -- Leonard Marshall
Defensive Tackle -- Roosevelt Grier
Middle Linebacker -- Harry Carson
Middle Linebacker -- Sam Huff
Outside Linebacker -- Lawrence Taylor
Outside Linebacker -- Brad Van Pelt
Cornerback -- Dick Lynch
Cornerback -- Mark Collins
Safety -- Emlen Tunnell
Safety -- Spider Lockhart

Offense

Center -- Mel Hein
Guard -- Ron Stone
Guard -- Chris Snee
Tackle -- Rosey Brown
Tackle -- Jumbo Elliott
Tight End -- Mark Bavaro
Wide Receiver -- Amani Toomer
Wide Receiver -- Homer Jones
Running Back -- Tiki Barber
Running Back -- Frank Gifford
Quarterback -- Phil Simms

Tweet Comment 16 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

Great Team!

My only nagging doubt ,as you mentioned was that I voted for Bahr instead of Gogolak. Not sure even now who I’d vote for but , I do remember at the time was that all the adults would comment how he revolutionized the game with the new “soccer style “which kids in pick up games would emulate. These sort of comments are usually reserved for LT types. I guess PG was on the team when A) I was very young and B ) the giants stunk at the time. Bahr had the chance of good fortune to deliver championships,
Snee would be the only other guy I’d raise an eyebrow at ,only because of his brief tenure. With a few more seasons of dominant play like we’ve been accustomed to, no doubt he will have really earned this spot.

We're only gonna score 17 points?

by big blue wrecking crew on Jul 18, 2008 7:52 AM EDT reply actions

Snee

He is a quality player, but I think his selection illustrates the fact that the Giants have never really had great players at that position.

by Ed Valentine on Jul 18, 2008 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions

I think it's a helluva team.

Keeping Parcells and Simms together makes sense. I have slight qualms about Bahr, Grier (then again, despite his superstar and HOF status, Weinmeister played only 4 years of pro ball, only two in the NFL), Marshal, Collins and Lockhart, but they can all more than get the job done. Rosey works well in the three man line. Among the Fearsome Foursome Rams, he gets the least recognition, so it’s a nice sentimental touch to see him make the BBV team.

by george cronin on Jul 18, 2008 7:54 AM EDT reply actions

Marshall

George, who would you put at DE instead of Marshall? I don’t have a huge problem with that choice.

by Ed Valentine on Jul 18, 2008 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions

Robustelli, of course (the Pope)

by george cronin on Jul 18, 2008 9:59 AM EDT reply actions

Ahh,

I forgot about him.

by Ed Valentine on Jul 18, 2008 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions

i'd probably take back

Marshall and Bahr. I don’t that bad given his place in Giant’s history. I’d probably go with Robustelli instead of Marshall fgiven what more I’ve read about him now. Although, given the way the game has changed, with his size, it’s hard to believe he’d be as successful in today’s NFL, what do you think George? Like their saying about Reggie Bush, it’s not that they were wrong calling him the Next Gale Sayers, it’s that Gale Sayers wouldn’t have made it in the NFL today.

by queler on Jul 18, 2008 1:54 PM EDT reply actions

Oh man

I just don’t think you can really compare athletes of today and yesterday w/size, training methods, etc., etc. It’s not even fair to try and compare. You can only really compare guys to their peers, and Sayers was an all-time great. Reggie Bush - so far - is barely adequate.

by Ed Valentine on Jul 18, 2008 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions

Check out some NFL fims highlights of Gale Sayers...

by giant fan since 57 on Jul 18, 2008 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions

As Ed said, comparisons among players from different generations are tough.

I think Robustelli would be all-pro playing today, but as an LB, not a DE. He’d still be short, like Zach Thomas, but weight training would put about ten more pounds on him, at least. He’d be a litle stonger and just as quick and fast. I think Gale Sayers would make it today as well. Today’s training would pack the pounds on him. He’d still have the speed and moves. I don’t know about his knees. I guess they’d last at least as long as they did. So many RBs with careers cut short be knee injuries-Billy Sims, John David Crow, not to mention Kyle Rote, who at least transformed himself into a receiver. The list goes on and on. I think it helps if you’re short, like Barry, Sweetness, Emmet, Morris (okay, Tiki, too.) Not too many big, tall guys last long, which doesn’t bode well for Jacobs. Still, I think he should have a few sensational years. Dickerson probaly had the best career among tall RBs. He ran straight up, too. I don’t know how he avoided injury so long. His coaches tried to hand him the ball thirty times a game.
Anyway, when it comes to the best of the best, I’d say they could play today, and shine, as long as they could take advantage of today’s training methods. The average players would have much less of a chance, especially when you factor in the paucity of African-Americans playing the game before WWII (maybe only one guy-Fritz Pollard?). They really didn’t get a fair shot until after WWII. Aside from his superb skills, Emlen Tunnel has to be revered by Giants fans as the guy who integrated the team (as player, coach, and executive as well.) Teams like the Giants, Browns, 49ers and Rams can thank their black players for much of their success.
Hey, BTW, when Bradshaw runs, he reminds me of Sayers.

by george cronin on Jul 18, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Sayers

would also have access to modern medical practices, which could have possibly saved his knees and allowed him to play for a few more seasons. You never know.

I’ve always hated the “guys are bigger today” argument, b/c I think it’s a cop out. Gale Sayers was 2 inches taller than Ladanian Tomlinson and 22 pounds lighter: he could have easily put on 10-15 pounds of muscle with todays weight training. Something tells me he would do just fine in today’s NFL.

by cjmulrain on Jul 18, 2008 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree....

Also you could make the case that some modern athletes have used steroids or some other illegal means to achieve their better body structure.

Need more reminders?  Until the rule changed in the sixties ( I think that's when it changed) defensive linemen were allowed a "head slap' to distract offensive linemen from their blocking task.  Bubba Smith, much feared DE for the Colts and Deacon Jones, whom I consider to be the best defensive lineman IL ever watched, were the best at this.  It's amazing that teams could get lineman to play because the head slap was more like an attempt at decapitation.

Yeah, some of that stuff was truly barbaric, but if you want to speculate that yesterday’s players couldn’t make it in today’s game then it is fair to wonder if today’s stars might not fold under the tough conditions of earlier years.

You never saw players from my generation dancing around and pointing at the guy who hit them,begging for an unnecessary roughness penalty.

by giant fan since 57 on Jul 19, 2008 6:42 AM EDT up reply actions

Whoops....

Watch some film highlights of Sayers, and Jim Brown too, while you are at it. Then let me know if you think they might just be god enough to play in today’s NFL. You’ll notice in the films that those guys didn’t do any dancing out of bounds to avoid a hit. They fought for every inch of yardage. Nuff said!

By the way, if we’re going to play the “what if” game then we would have to assume that they would be using modern training techniques if they played today. I’m confident they could compete with any we’ve had since them.

by giant fan since 57 on Jul 18, 2008 4:09 PM EDT reply actions

Right on, 57, except for Jim Brown.

That guy didn’t need modern training methods. Neither did guys like Bednarick, Nevers, Motley, etc. I could draw up quite a list. Sayers, I think, was a little too small to play today at the weight he played back then. Admittedly, he was hard to hit, but I don’t think he’d last a season subjected to the kinds of hits he’d take today. As I said above, he’d be outstanding using modern training methods.

by george cronin on Jul 18, 2008 4:17 PM EDT reply actions

I don't know why my earlier comment was corrupted....

Also you could make the case that some modern athletes have used steroids or some other illegal means to achieve their better body structure.

They might be bigger now but they aren’t any tougher. Don’t believe it? Watch some highlights of Dick Butkus. I guess because of the NFL’s policy about videos it might be difficult to post but I’m sure most of you have seen that incredible replay of Butkus stopping a running back cold, picking him up, legs flailing, and slamming him to the turf like a pile driver. That is the best tackle I have ever seen in my fifty plus years of watching the game.
Need more reminders? Until the rule changed in the sixties ( I think that’s when it changed) defensive linemen were allowed a “head slap’ to distract offensive linemen from their blocking task. Bubba Smith, much feared DE for the Colts and Deacon Jones, whom I consider to be the best defensive lineman IL ever watched, were the best at this. It’s amazing that teams could get lineman to play because the head slap was more like an attempt at decapitation.
Yeah, some of that stuff was truly barbaric, but if you want to speculate that yesterday’s players couldn’t make it in today’s game then it is fair to wonder if today’s stars might not fold under the tough conditions of earlier years. You never saw players from my generation dancing around and pointing at the guy who hit them,begging for an unnecessary roughness penalty.

by giant fan since 57 on Jul 19, 2008 6:52 AM EDT reply actions

Butkus vs. LT

Who hit harder? Butkus manhandled them as you describe. LT exploded through them. I don’t know. The idea of taking a hit from either makes me shudder.

by george cronin on Jul 19, 2008 8:49 PM EDT reply actions