QB. In earlier posts that was made evident. Were I to make my choice based on the coach already selected, I might choose Phil myself. I can’t remember any QB who worked for Tuna who wasn’t the object of his continuing abuse. I don’t think that either of the other obvious contenders of the All-time QB spot would have tolerated the kind of crap Parcells fed Phil:
1. Not Conerly, who came to the Giants as a 26 year old rookie and a Marine combat veteran in the Pacific theatre during WWII.
2. Certainly not YA, who was 35 and an established star when the Giants got him, having already been chosen for four Pro Bowls and as NFL MVP once.
3.Tarkenton? He came to Big Blue as a five year vet and a star, having twice won Pro Bowl honors.

I know a lot of BBVers put a lot of faith in stats in making their choices for the BBV team. There’s nothing wrong with that, but when doing so, please consider how much the game has changed over the years. This is particularly important when considering choices for QB, WR (and RB to a certain extent) because:
1. When Conerly and Tittle played there were fewer regular season games and only one post season game (unless there was a tie for first in a Division.)
2. Over the years, rules changes have made it far easier to rack up yards in the passing game. There was no roughing the passer penalty and no rule against spearing. WRs could be mugged at the line of scrimmage and all the way downfield. Horse collars were accepted. The rule that allowed runners to get up and run again after being tackled went out in the late forties or early fifties (I think), but the piling on to prevent the runner from running after being tackled was commonly accepted for years thereafter. Because of the way the rules allowed the game to be played, it was extraordinarily difficult for teams w/o an outstanding QB to mount a successful passing attack. Defenses were geared to stop the run, which made it tougher for runners.

Let’s look at the careers of Tittle, Tark, Conerly and Simms:
1. Hall of Famers. Tittle and Tark
2. Career QB rating: Tark, 80.4; Simms, 78.5; Tittle, 73.16; Conerly, 68.2
3. TD-INT. Tark 342-266; Tittle, 242-221; Simms, 199-157; Conerly, 173-167.
4.Yards. Tark, 47,003; Simms, 33,462; Tittle, 28,339; Conerly, 19,488.
5. Pro Bowls. Tark, 9; Tittle, 6; Conerly, 2; Simms, 2.
6. All-Pro. Tark, 9; Tittle, 6; Conerly, 2; Simms, 2
7. All-Pro. Tark, 6; Tittle, 4; Simms 1.
8.MVP Tittle, 5(given by more than one organization back then); Tark, 1; Conerly, 1
9. SB MVP. Simms, 1.

Miscellaneous:
1. Tittle led the Giants to three championship games. Tark took the Vikes to three SBs. Neither won a championship.
2. When they retired, Tittle and Tark held records for most yards gained passing.
3. Tark is 4th all-time for most QB wins. He gained over 3600 yards rushing (4th among QBs all-time) and scored 32 TDs. He is one of only two QBs to rush at least 700 yards in seven different seasons. He is # 57 on the Sporting News list of 100 greaest football players. No other Giants QB made the list. (All the Giants who made the list are on the All-Time BBV Team-#4, LT; # 57, Rosey Brown; # 70, Emlen Tunnell; # 74, Mel Hein; # 76, Sam Huff.) 6 % of the total are Giants-pretty good, eh what?
4. Tittle’s 36 TD passes in’63 remained a record until Marino broke it in ‘84.

I believe Tittler and Tark were better QBs than Simms and Conerly. Tark had a better overall career than Tittle. When he played for the Giants, he was mediocre and they sucked. When Tittle played for them, he was the best QB in football and the Giants were outstanding. My choice for the BBV Team—Yelverton Abraham Tittle.

I loved Simms and the way he stood in the pocket but in my opinion he took a lot of sacks because he held the ball too long. Simm’s greatest day came in what you’d have to consider the Giants greatest game. I still get chills watching replays of that performance.

But I will vote for YA, the toughest SOB I’ve ever seen play the position. You are right about Tittle never taking any crap from anybody. He was a fantastic motivater and field general. He wasn’t afraid to take a lineman to task for missing his assignment, and even threw a helmet or two at them to make his point.

Roughing the passer was a non existant call when YA played and he took hits that, if happened today, would result in suspensions and fines. But Tittle took it all in stride, backpedaling feebly, then executing the perfect screen pass time after time, absorbilng huge hits after he threw the ball. And let’s not forget that, as George reminded us, he only had 12 games a year to pad his stats.

Google his name and download one of the best football photos ever taken. It shows the “bald eagle” down on his knees, head bleeding, body totally spent, after a loss to the Steelers.

job away and handing it to Brunner. As I said, Simms had character and as you say, class, and lots of it. Still, purely as a QB….

I met him at a trade show in Ocean City back in the early seventies. He had a booth set up where you could try your shot at throwing a football through a tire. He was a very friendly guy, but incredibly frail looking and way shorter than his bio listed. At 5’10” I towered over him. But he turned out to be a lot tougher than he looked. I wonder if we might be voting for him if our team had been better. As it was, he had to run for his life nearly every play.

I just thought Gogo’s impact on the game was so great he deserved to be on the team. (History, tradition and all that, plus he was a damn good kicker.)

He spent his whole career with the Giants and changed the way the game is played. I wonder how many years it has been since a team had a straightaway kicker, or the last time a kicker used a boot? Actually, some of those big linemen like Agajanian and Groza who kicked straight ahead could really kick it deep. I don’t think Summerall’s legendary kick in a blizzard during a playoff game could have been made by a sidewinder (more than fifty yard according to eyewitness accounts, not official records.). The ball had a better chance of staying between the uprights going end over end. A sidewinder’s kick would not have had as much oomph and probably would have sailed wide.

Kudos to Belly for letting him try. It ain’t easy with the modern football. When I was a kid in the thirties we used to mess around with it, just goofin’. I suppose we had some kind of tribal memory of the technique. Certainly, the last dropkick in an NFL game had to be long before the last placekick.

Last dropkick FG-HOFer Dutch Clark, ‘37
Last dropkick Xtra point (before Flutie’s)-Ray McLean ‘41 chamionship game (Bears-Giants.)
Last straight ahead kicker-Mark Mosely, retired Redskins afer ‘86 season. Only kicker to win league MVP. Still Redskins all-time leading scorer.
Last straight ahead Xtra point-‘87, by a punter and occasional FG kicker.

Some team (Philly?) had a guy not that long ago that kicked field goals barefoot. It was painful to watch.

Right, the Eagles had one. Mosley wasn’t a barefooter.

It’s gotta be Phil Simms—he led the Giants to their first Super Bowl victory and took them to the brink of the second before being injured.

Eli hasn’t been around long enough. Tittle was great for three years, but spent most of his career with the 49ers. Tark never won anything here.