Who should coach our All-Time Team?

by ETVal on Jun 21, 2008 9:25 AM EDT in News

Our man 'jrs' is working on the history of the Giants coaching tree. Soon, he will be giving you an in-depth look at every coach the Giants have ever had. I am looking forward to what we can all learn from that.

I want to vote on the coach for our Big Blue View All-Time Giants Team next. To get that going, here is the short version.

The candidates are below, with a quick bio. We will be getting more detail from 'jrs,' on these guys, but this will get the voting started.

The candidates.

Steve Owen -- Coached the Giants from 1931-53. Won NFL titles in 1934 and 1938, and was elected to the Hall of Fame in 1966. A 151-100-17 overall record.
Jim Lee Howell -- Succeeded Owen and coached from 1954-60. A 53-37-4 overall record and an NFL title in 1956.
Allie Sherman -- Coached from 1961-68, and was a two-time Coach of the Year. A 57-51-4 record, but probably gets demerits for coaching at the beginning of the 'Wilderness Years.'
Bill Parcells -- Two-time Super Bowl winner (1986, 1990) and was the coach who brought the Giants back into prominence. We all know Parcells history, and I think he's the odds-on favorite to win here. A 77-49-1 overall record with the Giants.
Jim Fassel -- Gentleman Jim was 58-53-1 from 1997-2003. One Super Bowl appearance and one Coach of the Year honor. He was borderline to make this list, but I think he did enough to make it.
Tom Coughlin -- Coughlin's story is yet to be fully written, but he is en route to going down as one of the best Giants coaches ever. A Super Bowl title, three playoff appearances and a 35-29 record in his four seasons.

As always, vote in the poll. You have until Thursday night. Oh, and check in for 'jrs' look at all 17 Giants coaches.

Poll

Who should coach our Big Blue View All-Time Giants Team?

Steve Owen

18 votes

Jim Lee Howell

1 votes

Allie Sherman

3 votes

Bill Parcells

82 votes

Jim Fassel

1 votes

Tom Coughlin

14 votes

119 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 15 comments

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Comments

For me, it boils down to Parcells vs. Owens. (Howell had the good

fortune of having Lombardi and Landry as assistants. ) Under Parcells, the Giants completed the turnaround from the Wilderness Years, but the man most responsible was the man who selected Parcells and the players—George Young. Parcells is a great coach. So is Owen. Owen deserves the coaching assignment of the All-Time team much more than Parcells. Here’s a comparison:

I PARCELLS
1. He was never a true Giant in the way most of the players selected for the team were. He never talked of his committment to the Giants in the way guys like Brown, Lynch, LT, Carson, Marshall, et. al. did. Or like the players that went to other teams but came back to sign a one day contract so they could retire as Giants. Unlike Owen, Howell and even Fassell, Parcels never demonstrated pride in being a Giant.
2. After the ‘86 SB, he almost dumped the Giants to go to Atlanta.
3. After the ‘90 SB, he did dump them at the last minute, leaving them little time to secure a new head coach. (Yes, management should have been prepared for this treachery considering whar happened after the ‘86 SB.)
4. He got NE to the SB and took off immediately, leaving them with a bloated payroll.
5. He got the Jets to the conference championship game and took over as GM. He left the Jets in the same kind of shape he left NE.
6. While Tony Dungy was still coach, Parcells signed with Atlanta, but reneged on his contract
7. He went to work with the miserable Jerry Jones and now he’s with Miami.

This is the All-Time Giants coach? If he’s not the Jeremy Shockey/Larry Brown of football coaches, who is? Tell me his career doesn’t paint a picture of a me-firster, selfish to the core, the kind of coach so much like the kind of players we wouldn’t vote to the All-Time team.

OWEN
1. A tackle for the Giants from ‘26-31, an All-Pro and captain of the ‘27 championship team, Steve coached Big Blue for 23 years (‘30-’53.) Unlike Parcells, Owen, with his thirty year service to the team, is forever and soley identified with the Giants. Parcells is associated with whatever team or TV organization that currently employs him. Maybe some Giants fans (maybe even most) immediately think of Parcells when they think of a Giants coach, but what about fans of other teams, particularly those who root for the Pats, the Jets, Dallas, or Miami? When you think of Owen, you think of the Giants as you do when you think of most of the players already chosen for the BBV team.
2. Owen is the man who stamped the Giants with their indelible trademark—stout defense.
3. He had an extraordinary impact on the NFL in the way the game is played on both sides of the ball, having introduced the A formation, the Umbrella Defense, the Platoon System, and the use of sneakers on frozen fields. Parcells has innovated nothing.
4. With Owens as coach, the Giants played in eight of the first fourteen NFL title games. His teams won ten division championships and 2 NFL championships. In his 23 years as coach, his teams suffered but six losing seasons. He retired with a .604 winning percentage with the Giants; with the Giants, Parcells was .610.
5. Most deservedly, Steve is in the HOF. Parcells might get there some day, but he’s not there yet.

by george cronin on Jun 21, 2008 12:48 PM EDT 0 recs

I have to go with Parcells

George, you have been around to see a lot more Giants football than I have in my lifetime thus far, but I have to disagree with a few of your points.

Owen took over an already successful Giants team when he started as head coach in 1931. The Giants were fresh off a 13-4 season, two years removed from a 13-1-1 campaign and only four years removed from a 1927 NFL Championship. When Parcells took over the Giants, the team had just one winning season in the past decade and they were a joke. After a horrible first year, he took the Jints to the playoff back-to-back years for the first time since the early 60’s. The Super Bowl XXI win came the following year (then XXV in ‘90), and had it not been for the dominance of the NFC in the late 80’s – Bears All-Time great ‘85 team, 49ers dynasty – who knows how many more Championships could’ve been won.

Because Parcells isn’t a “true Giant” is irrelevant. Is Kevin Garnett a “true Celtic?” Fans don’t care about that at all. What makes him the all-time coach instead of Owen is the fact that Parcells made the Giants revelevant again. Parcells may have coached New England, the Jets, and Dallas, but what’s important is that he made his name with the Giants – not with those other teams. I know that Owen did a lot to change the game, and had a great impact on the NFL, but we’re talking about the Giants All-Time coach here, not about who created the “Umbrella Defense.” Both coaches won the same amount of Championships (2), the only difference is that Owen won those 2 in a 23 season span as head coach while Parcells got two rings in an eight-year stint.

You say that Parcells is the Larry Brown of the NFL. While that may be true, Steve Owen was 2-6 in NFL Championship games. if Parcells is the Larry Brown of the NFL, then certainly Steve Owen is the Bobby Cox.

by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Jun 21, 2008 4:07 PM EDT 0 recs

I've gotta agree with SBaker here

We all know Parcells is a complete douchebag, but the guy can coach. Plus, he was much LESS of a douchebag with us in the 80’s, before everyone crowned him as one of the greatest coaches ever.

by cjmulrain on Jun 21, 2008 5:26 PM EDT up 0 recs

also

At least we can claim that Parcells started his coaching career with us, and lasted here by far the longest. I don’t think any other team has as strong a claim to him as we do. Just my 2 cents.

by cjmulrain on Jun 21, 2008 5:27 PM EDT up 0 recs

Good arguments.

I expected a Parcells landslide, but I think he’ll have a hard time making the HOF—as I said, he’s a great coach, but has too much competition from contemporaries who seem to be held in higher regard. Then again, he’s still coaching. who knows, maybe he’ll make Miami good enouigh to get to the playoffs, etc.with contemporaries.
I just had to make the case for Owen. I can no more vote fpr Parcells than I can for Tiki (who’ll probably get the nod from BBVers) or Shock. Based on previous votes to the BBV team, you’re right about right about BBVers not caring about overall contibutions to the game itself.

by george cronin on Jun 21, 2008 9:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

Forgive the typos above.

I caught a twelve pound brown trout today and have been celebrating since, until my wife dragged me away from the dock party at the neighbors. Twelve pounds is pretty damn big, although the record on Keuka is over 23. That doesn’t count since it came after one of the floods in the seventies when breeder fish from the hatchery were washed into the lake.

by george cronin on Jun 21, 2008 9:26 PM EDT up 0 recs

I can't go with Parcells.

I’d love to, but I just can’t. Not after he “retired”, leaving us with the immortal Ray Handley, but then coming back to coach the Jets? And later on the Cowboys?

Na ga da.

Watch me paste this pathetic palooka with a powerful paralyzing perfect pachyderms percussion pitch.

by Mr. Met on Jun 21, 2008 4:59 PM EDT 0 recs

Here come 2 pennies......

George, you forgot how Bill Parcells left Hugh Culverhouse “at the altar”, I believe in 1992. They had a deal in place, a press conference was announced, and right before it, Parcells backed out, and Culverhouse had to hold the press conference to announce he had no coach. Also, if you believe the rumors, if not for GY’s stubborness, Parcells would have been brought back in 1997.

Mr. Met, I understand your frustration over Ray Handley, but I don’t think Parcells is necessarily to blame for that. George Young made that decision, and I seem to remember it was immediate, there was no “search”, even a brief one. So Handley was a guy GY obviously saw as HC of the NYG (stolen from Belichick) material.

As far as I am concerned, I forgave Parcells when the Giants won SB 42, finally proving there was life without him…..how many SB’s has he won without the Giants?

PS Mr. Met, love the Bugs Bunny sig

All this being said, I’m not sure who I will vote for. I may throw Fassel his only vote, since he was really cool to my friends and me every year when I lived in AZ and the Giants came out to play the Cards. We were invited to practice in 1998, the only fans graced with this honor

Giants fan from the womb to the tomb

by jrs1940 on Jun 21, 2008 6:15 PM EDT 0 recs

The culverhouse thing is just another example of his

by george cronin on Jun 21, 2008 9:30 PM EDT up 0 recs

Parcells...

Yes, he is an oportunist. And I didn’t like it either when he quit NY and said it was for health reasons. But he is in a very small group of coaches(maybe four) of coaches to have ever sucessfully taken a team from the depths of ineptness to a Super Bowl victory.

He had an uncanny ability to read players and motivate them to play way above their God given talent. He helped make a field coach out of Harry Carson, played guys like Phil McKonky and Dave Meggett who might have not had a chance with another coach, and built a game plan that made it possible for us to win with the type of players we had. He did a fantastic job with Simms and OJ Anderson, and it is fair to say he had a big part in quite a few of our guys playing over their heads.

I like Coughlin and may he will someday be a hall of fame coach, but Parcells is already in the top three or four to ever coach. My opinion of course.

by giant fan since 57 on Jun 21, 2008 9:23 PM EDT 0 recs

example of his, what?

Scumbagginess? Doesn’t character count for anything? Last comment on coach of All-Time BBV team, I swear. And, as I just sweared to my wife, I AM not half in the bag, just thirty years past my drinking prime.

by george cronin on Jun 21, 2008 9:34 PM EDT 0 recs

Another thing about Parcells...

Like Bill Walsh he developed a large number of successful coaches. And you have to admit he has had many very funny media conferences.

I really believe Parcells could have won a Super Bowl in Dallas if Jerry Jones hadn’t forced TO down BIll’s throat. That whole situation seemed to be the catalyst for his departure from coaching.

By the way George, if I had caught a twelve pound trout I’d be tossing down a few tonight myself…congratulations. How about a picture?

by giant fan since 57 on Jun 21, 2008 9:45 PM EDT 0 recs

Coaches

I think this is a tough one. I loved Parcells because he was a great coach and helped bring the team back to respectability. At the same time, he only helped. If he was “buying the groceries”, then it probably wouldn’t have happened (thanks GY). Also, you can make a very convincing argument that BP would have never won a SB without Belichic. Then I grew to despise him because of his lack of loyalty to everybody. Now, like Jrs, I’ve come around to liking him again because we finally won without him and I can recognize his great contributions.

At any rate, I based some of my earlier votes on whether I believed the player was a “true Giant”. If they played their best years somewhere else or showed a lack of loyalty in some way, then I didn’t vote for him. As good as a coach as BP was, we know he wasn’t loyal or a “true Giant” by his actions and therefore I can’t vote for him. Owens is all things we consider a “true Giant” and he was a GREAT coach. He gets my vote.

by potroast on Jun 22, 2008 8:29 AM EDT 0 recs