Biggest Draft Busts
by TerraByte on May 7, 2008 1:21 PM EDT
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PrintBeing a single-minded Giants fan, when I think of draft busts I think mostly of the color Brown. Twice, in fact. There was a Bunch of others, I'm sure. Then there was a DE and a WR we must have been blind to pick.
What I don't often think about is how much better the Giants have fared compared to other teams. USA Today has, though, and with the exception of our new backup QB David Carr, there are no Giants on the list.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/gallery/football/s080423_draftbusts/flash.htm?gid=489&aid=2418
There have been players who underperformed because of injury, because they couldn't make the transition from college to the pros, and because the GM totally misjudged their abilities. Any thoughts on who the biggest busts were for the Giants (who cares about anybody else)?
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Gotta be WillieJoe and Dayne. Do you know how much you have to suck to fail as a first round tackle. I mean your job is basically taking up space. Dayne’s problem was the same you see from a lot of skill players transitioning from one level to the next when they were, as I like to say “Men among Boys” at the previous level. Dayne continuously never looked for the hole, and tried to drive the pile like he was able to do against smaller Big-10 defenders. That and I assumed he had a huge conditioning problem, he would start off strong and be useless by week 5.
Interesting that you mentioned
Joseph. One of the knocks against him in the draft was his low test score. I seem to recall that they said it had more to do with English not being his first language than with his IQ. But now I’m thinking about Manningham who also had a low test score. Will he be more like Joseph or Dan Marino, who also had a low score.
I’m kinda looking forward to the call, “Manning to Manningham for a TD.”
SB 42 Tape Needed
Know anyone who can lend me the SB 42 tape? My wife taped the first 3 qtrs while I was in AZ at the game! I’ll make extra copies on DVD and pay for all shipping!
Let me know -
Russ 513-515-0232
Coaching is also a part of it
Sometimes a player clicks with his college coaching staff, or the staff just knows how to put the player into a position to win. Maybe the surrounding team for the player was the right complement – for example, a great defensive line can make cornerbacks look very good.
If the player doesn’t get the same level of support in the pros, either from the coaches or from the rest of his team, the player could become a bust
Terrabyte
If you go back in the archive you’ll see a previous discussion of this initiated by jr, I think. I voted for Rocky Thompson, but others came up with better names. Joe Don Looney comes to mind, but the Giants dumped him in training camp (he played for 5-7 years, though and drove coaches crazy in the process.) Dayne was a bust but he’s still playing. Joseph was a bigger bust, but he lasted a few years. Believe me (and sorry to say) we’ve done worse than those two.
SB 42 tape Needed
Know anyone who can lend me the SB 42 tape? My wife taped the first 3 qtrs while I was in AZ at the game! I’ll make extra copies on DVD and pay for all shipping!
Let me know -
Russ 513-515-0232
couple of other names
Derek Brown is a big one, and George Adams comes to mind
We are only considering first round picks, right?
I think so.
Brown’s a good choice. Adams I don’t even remember, which is telling in more ways than one. Was he a first-rounder?
Yes
I found a list of the giants first round picks http://www.kffl.com/article.php/88571/115
Adams was a fullback – He hardly played for the Giants, then went to pats for a while, but didn’t do much there either
Thanks efs.
Amazing how many first round RB picks the Giants used to make. Teams seem to value them less these days. I read somwhere that the average career of an NFL RB is 4 years. You have to hand it to little guys like Sanders and Payton (well, short, at least) for lasting so long, yet alone bangers like Taylor and John Henry Johnson (or Eric Dickerson, who was a big target and ran straight up.) The list of great RBs whose careers have been cut short by injury is long.
by george cronin on May 11, 2008 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Best athletes
I think it is also the case that 30-40 years ago, the best athletes on the team were quaterbacks, running backs, and wide receivers. I think that this is evidenced by the fact that a lot of them played multiple positions (see Joe Morrison listed as RB/WR/FB/DB – he was also a backup Quarterback)
So the idea of a left tackle, that might be good enough to actually make a difference, just hadn’t occurred to them. I think that started to change in the late 60s and 70s (as players were paid more) and part of the reason for ‘the wilderness years” was that the Giants didn’t adjust. If you look at the Giants from 65 to 80 – they had some reasonable skill position players, but they had terrible lines, especially the O line – so the runners couldn’t run, and the QB never had time to throw
That's where a lot of the criticism of EA comes from
But I also think at least some of the blame should go to coaching.
I thought that Dan Reeves was notoriously bad at developing talent.
We can't forget....
Big time Giant Busts….going back a little here but how can we forget….
Dave Brown (1992)
Cedric Jones- at (1996
Thomas Lewis (1994)
Jarrod Bunch (1991)
There drafts in the years since 2002, with the exception of William Joseph has been pretty solid, top to bottom.
My favorite Dave Brown story
is that when the Giants picked him in the supplemental draft, they gave up their first round pick in the following draft. So with their first pick, in the second round, they got Michael Strahan. Talk about the fickle finger of fate.
sort of a Dave Brown story
More about Kent Graham. So around 2000 the Steelers signed Kent Graham, to replace Kordell Stewart. Now I never understood why Steeler’s fans hated Kordell so much. Now, I know for a fact, part of it was racism, part of it was the gay rumors, but as a player, he had a number of games where he carried the team. Sure he was inconsistent, but how much better was he then the dregs starting on half the teams two years ago. Like I said, I never understood the hate. So my Pittsburgh friends were all pumped up at the beginning of the season, that they had finally ousted Kordell for Graham. I just started laughing my ass off. “Kent Graham?” I said, “You think Kent Graham is your savior? That guy could beat out Dave Brown in camp!”
SB 42 Tape Needed
Know anyone who can lend me the SB 42 tape? My wife taped the first 3 qtrs while I was in AZ at the game! I’ll make extra copies on DVD and pay for all shipping!
Let me know -
Russ 513-515-0232
Jarrod Bunch
I kind of remember him being not a bad blocking FB.
I would add Tyrone Wheatley and Butch Woolfolk.
i've made this point before
One of the reasons I felt great about Reese was the first round picks in Ernie’s era were very based on upside, and recently (other then Shockey, and possibly Eli) have not been great. The lower rounds, however, have been nothing but great value, which I attributed to Ernie having more input on the 1st rounder and leaving a lot of detail to the rest of the staff, which would primarily have been Reese. So far most of the picks in the Reese ere certainly seem to back this up.
Obviously it’s tough judge the drafting of Eli because of what we gave up, but as a fan, I’m convinced it was a success. Not because of the Championship. Just because we don’t have to root for Phillip Rivers. Man is that guys a douchebag or what. How could you possibly feel good in that jersey?
haha
yea, I’m glad we don’t have Rivers too, although I also like Big Ben, wouldn’t have been heartbroken if he was our QB instead of Eli (assuming both would have won a championship even if they swapped teams).
And let’s pretend for a minute the Giants decided to stick it out with Kerry Collins for one more year and drafted someone like Sean Taylor or Vilma instead of Eli, then used the pick they didn’t trade the next year for a QB: they would have one of Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers, or Jason Campbell. So while Eli has certainly been an inconsistent regular season QB, I think it’s pretty clear that when you look at the QB talent that has come into the league since him, the Giants made a fantastic decision to go after him, as the only guy who’s had close to his level of success is Big Ben.
I think youre on to something, q.
We know Eli was Ernie’s boy. I thought we gave away too much to get him until the last four games of last year. I now feel mildly positive. If Eli keeps playing the way he ended last year’s season, I’ll be wildly enthusiastic.
I beleive in recent years Reese had more say than anyone about picks after round one. E.g., he had to fight like hell to get Osi, vociferously arguing that he was a steal.
SB 42 Tape Needed
Know anyone who can lend me the SB 42 tape? My wife taped the first 3 qtrs while I was in AZ at the game! I’ll make extra copies on DVD and pay for all shipping!
Let me know -
Russ 513-515-0232
Wow, I didn't know that.
Having looked at the busts other teams have had, I didn’t think the Giants had done bad at all under Young and Accosi. Knowing that Reese correctly read Osi’s abilities makes me even more optimistic for the future.
Giants had a long streak of better 2nd round picks than 1st rounders.
Being a fan for 40+ years the most painful 1st rounders were
Rockie Thompson-could only return kicks
Eldridge Small-weren’t sure if we was a DB or WR- was neither
John Hicks-best lineman in the country and #3 overall pick-complete bust
George Adams-mediocre running back at best
The Derek Brown, Dave Brown, Thomas Lewis, Tyrone Wheatley, Cedric Jones streak was incredible
Picking Dayne over Shaun Alexander despite every pre draft publication rating Alexander better
Joseph was a reach after all the higher rated tackles were gone.
In my early youth we passed on Gale Sayers to take Tucker Fredrickson to the surprise of the football world.
The Giants drafts from 1970 onward are available on their website. If we look at the past 15 years the second rounders would agruably be better than the firsts.
Note on Fredrickson
The big problem with Tucker was a big knee injury in (I think) his rookie season. This was in the days before reconstructive knee surgery, and he was never the same.
Gayle Sayers was a good player, but known more for “Brian’s Song” then for his play. He had two really great seasons, and then had a couple of knee injuries that cut his career short.
I don’t know if count Fredrickson as a bust because of the injury
Fredrickson was far from a bust, but he was no Gayle Sayers.
Sayers was one of many great RBs whose carreers were cut short by injuries. Fredrickson had a solid career, but never became the kind of player many predicted he would.
by george cronin on May 17, 2008 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Possibly also a victim of coaching
Check out this article about the 64-68 years
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2006/06/20/ramblings/too-deep-zone/3699/
I found it fascinating, and may do a diary on it
Frederickson
was drafted in 1964. Namath was drafted by the Cardinals that year. But I believe that they drafted before the Giants. Not that I think that the Giants would have taken Joe Willie in any event, as he didn’t meet Wellngton’s image of a Giant.
I thought our brains were supposed to let us forget
such painful memories. I wasn’t as rabid as I am now for the Thompson-Small-Hicks picks, but I surely remember the era of the Brown stains. I thought Derek Brown, Dayne, and Wheatley were going to work out but Lewis, Joseph and Jones were painfully bad picks. I didn’t know the stories about missing out on Alexander and Sayers. Then again, every team passed on Tom Brady … five times, until he was picked 199 in the sixth round.
Was Fredrickson one of the players who swapped wives with another Giants player whose name escapes me.
No, he wasn't
I don’t remember the wife swapping stuff. Are you sure you’re not thinking of a baseball team?
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