Most Overrated/Underrated Giants
by Hoyadestroya85 on Nov 27, 2008 4:15 PM EST
29 comments
I was talking to my friend the other day who happens to be a cowboys fan (I don't know why we're friends" and we were trying to think of the most overrated players on our respective teams as well as the Most underrated. He said that Flozell Adams and Zach Thomas (he didn't include Roy Williams because he's done for the season) were the most overrated and that Marc Colombo and Anthony Henry are the most underrated
I came up with this for the Giants:
Overrated:
Antonio Pierce- I know he's an above average player but he's not an elite linebacker, he's very smart and that is the best part of his game, but does anyone realize that when Chase Blackburn fills in for him there is very little dropoff at the position?
Ahmad Bradshaw- It seems that in games in which Brandon Jacobs hasn't played, Bradshaw looks considerably more vulnerable. He was also mediocre at kickoff returning. Hopefully he can become an every down back in the future as well as stop fumbling.
Underrated:
Chase Blackburn- This guy is not only the best special teams player on the team, but he doesn't look like he's gonna give up his starting job at linebacker any time soon.
Domenik Hixon- After last week need I say more?
Steve Smith- Makes as many big third down catches as anyone in the NFL.. He's very quick with great hands.
Kevin Boss- He's not only blocked but so far in his short career he's already made more big catches than Shockey ever did.
Corey Webster- He's developing into a shutdown corner after being considered a liability at cornerback less than a year ago.
It's an interesting thing to think about when the team is so stable
Thoughts?
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I don't disagree
with any of this, though I think Fred Robbins might be our most underrated player: he’s overshadowed by the Ends, but he has been a key cog on that defense for years, and is stepping it up to another level this year. He might not be Albert Haynesworth or Kris Jenkins, but he’s a damn good Defensive Tackle.
by cjmulrain on Nov 27, 2008 7:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
he was on the list
i forgot damn
It's not easy being Giants fan in Philly.. but it sure is satisfying
by Hoyadestroya85 on Nov 27, 2008 11:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
have you seen his career stats
Lets just say I wouldn’t be shocked if he got a steroid suspension. Barring that though, it’s amazing when you look at what he’s done after many many years of a C+ career
by queler on Dec 2, 2008 9:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm in love
w/ Boss. He’s sure handed, runs well after the catch, and always seems to find a gaping hole in the D. If he develops into an elite TE, the sky’s the limit for this O. He is a soft spoken guy who is always ready when his number is called. He has 5 or 6 TD’s. After not touching the ball in the first hand full of games, that’s impressive. Witten only has 3 TD’s. Hell Yeah!
by ProudYankee on Nov 27, 2008 10:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
most underrated:
Eli most overated:i agree with pierce
by gdfther412 on Nov 27, 2008 11:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Eli is overrated by whom? Anyone? What about AP? Overrated? AP?!!
Here is why AP is not overrated. His athletic ability isn’t off the charts but the man grasps this defense so well that he puts players in position to make plays(Thomas’ INT vs Zona), He’s super smart and is aware of everything happening on the field(Goeff running off the field leaving 10 defenders in the 4th QTR and instead of burning a timeout AP took an offsides penalty. Brilliant play.) AP is the surest tackler on a top 3 defense in the NFL, stopping a sure touchdown in the playoffs in Green Bay, by beating TWO offensive linemen to tackle the ball carrier.
Remove AP off this roster and there will be major problems. BTW Blackburn is good because AP helps him a ton! Remember when Blackburn started the season before AP was signed? Ok then shut up about AP being overrated.
by Major on Nov 28, 2008 12:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When i say overrated
I don’t mean bad.. AP is great in run support but gets beat by Tight Ends quite easily
It's not easy being Giants fan in Philly.. but it sure is satisfying
by Hoyadestroya85 on Nov 28, 2008 12:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When you say overrated you're saying he's not as good
as ppl think he is. That sentiment directed at AP is completely incorrect. Giant fans are getting too giddy. We are drinking too much “Giants can replace anyone” kool aid these days. You suggested that Chase Blackburn is just as good as AP, therefore, he could replace AP? Now you state that he gets beat by TE’s easily. Well if you haven’t noticed most TE’s run 4.5 or better and are bigger than most MLB’s. So MOST Middle linebackers get beat by TE’s quite easily which is why safety’s now cover TE routes.
Lets debunk the prevailing theory that the Giants are this machine that can replace anyone at anytime because of their depth. That idea only works in limited doses. If you replace Burress with Hixon, AP with Blackburn, the Giants are not going to be as successful. The coaching staff is amazing at giving guys chances to play but in small doses so they don’t get exposed. I do believe that the depth chart is full of talented players but let them develop before we go crazy. Keep in mind, Kevin Boss emerged in the playoffs last year but has just now begun to show his development in week 11. 4 playoff games, 4 preseason games, 10 regular season games.
They are good but stop the madness already.
by Major on Nov 28, 2008 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No Boss
has shown what he can do since wk 6. And naturally it’s taken him some time to develop a repertoire w/ Eli, Gilbride and himself. And I personally do feel Hixon can be better than Burress. He has good hands, adjusts well on balls in the air, and always seems to find an open spot. Don’t tell me Plax’s lack of production is due to double coverage. He is a wide reciever whose job is to find a way to get open. You don’t think most teams have the double cover guy, that teams go into the game saying stop him? Guess what, most of the time those guys get it done! Steve Smith of the Panthers is GAMEPLANNED for, yet his production is still there. Personally, I think Plax is starting to realize the team can win without him, and instead of being the type of guy who says, Ok now I gotta step it up to show my worth. He just seems uninterested.
And AP is important, but he gets burned all the time in the passing game. Simply put. I don’t care if a TE runs a 4.5, that’s when there’s noone in front of him! Put a man there to disrupt him, slow him up, bang him up and that 4.5 goes out the window. I love AP ever since he came here, but his lack of athleticism will be something discussed at the end of the season when his contract is up. He is lights out against the run though, especially stretch plays where he has to beat the ball carrier to the outside.
by ProudYankee on Nov 28, 2008 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here we go....
The kool aid and the hype is getting in every pore of Giant fandom. We are starting to sound like Cowboy fans. So AP will be “looked at” this offseason and Dominek Hixon, who has been released by TWO teams and hasn’t started a game at WR until this season, is BETTER in some fans eyes than Plaxico Burress. Lets examine Burress for a second because I don’t think fans understand his impact. Def. Coordinators are putting Burress in a box of two and sometimes 3 defenders playing zones around his specific routes. Kevin Gilbride has said out of his own mouth that the running game exploding is a result of the game planning of Burress. Second point, teams don’t respect Amani Toomer and usually leave him manned up because they don’t wan’t Burress to beat them.
Eli tried to force feed Burress but was throwing into coverage, FS over the top, Backer underneath, CB covering. Take three players away from the defense and one from the offense and that gives you 10 on 8. Leave out the fact that Plax blocks great downfield and bats down most balls thrown to him that should be interceptions. But because he isn’t producing he is expendable. OK, Whatever you guys say.
When this team starts believing the hype that the fans are raptured in right now, it will be over just as quick as it began. We CANNOT lose players like AP and Burress and think players like Hixon and Blackburn will just fill in nicely.
As far as Boss contributing since week six here’s the numbers;
WK 6(the Browns game!!!), How’s 1 catch for 24 yds?
Wk 7 vs, SF no catches
WK 8 vs PIT 4 for 34yds
Wk 9 vs DAL 3 for 30yds
WK 10 vs PHI 6 for 69yds TD
WK 11 vs BAL no catches but GREAT run blocking
WK 12 vs ARI 4 for 48 yds TD
So yes it has taken some time but we clearly differ on the amount of time. The stats favor my view that Boss is now starting to get his game going to impact games every sunday. But absolutely not since wk 6.
by Major on Nov 29, 2008 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
More underrated
I would almost put Eli on the underrated list – 18TDs, only 7 INTs, 62% completion %, yet “he’s still not doing enough”, or “is in a slump” because he had 6 straight games under 200 yards. 3 of the games, he had 199, 196, and 191 yards. Would a total of 14 more yards over 3 games really have made that much of a difference? If anything, its a testament to the rest of the team that they haven’t had to ask him to throw more – why throw when you’re running for 200 yards per game? The other 3 games they were also trying to avoid running up the score. But I digress . . .
I’d also add Dave Diehl and maybe even Michael Johnson to the underrated list. I think your original list is spot-on.
brian99
by brian99 on Nov 28, 2008 2:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Eli is definitely underrated.
and by your estimation so is Pierce. We wasted many words this past summer talking about leadership and who would step up on D with Stray gone. Then we did it again when Osi went out… Yet we still have the best D in the league.
Thank you Antonio Pierce. Your vocal leadership and leading by example have not been overlooked by this fan.
I can’t believe I read those words on this site Ed, I generally think the consensus here is spot on, but that particular part of that particular post is complete and total garbage.
by NYcON on Nov 28, 2008 3:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
AP
NYcON, you obviously feel strongly about Pierce. ‘Hoyadestroya’ is also entitled to his opinion. It’s part of what makes great debates here.
Personally, I have mixed feelings about AP. He’s a smart guy and generally a terrific leader on the defense. He is a good middle linebacker, but not a dominant one feared by the opposition. He’s not Harry Carson — or Ray Lewis or Shawne Merriman. Not even close.
And, while he hasn’t done it this season, he does have a history of taking stupid, unnecessary late-hit penalties — and being very unapologetic for them no matter how bad they are.
by Ed Valentine on Nov 28, 2008 8:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
regarding AP
Yes he’s a tackling machine and he’s an intelligent player.. that’s why i think he’ll make a great coach some day.. but I can name at least 10 middle linebackers who i’d rather have off the top of my head
It's not easy being Giants fan in Philly.. but it sure is satisfying
by Hoyadestroya85 on Nov 28, 2008 9:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Current MLBs?
I don’t know if I would go that far, but I do agree that AP is not an elite, dominant player. That said, he is a good player.
by Ed Valentine on Nov 28, 2008 9:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ok
10 was a bit much maybe 5 or 6.. but I will say one thing, he’s the best guy in the middle in the division
It's not easy being Giants fan in Philly.. but it sure is satisfying
by Hoyadestroya85 on Nov 28, 2008 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he's undersized
That’s why the skins cut him and why he wasn’t drafted. That’s the best part about the dominating D-line the last two years. Teams had started to figure out AP. They would send a lineman or FB to meet him directly. Because of his size he can’t get off a direct block.
by queler on Nov 28, 2008 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
P.S. Linebacker generally = Defensive QB.
K… That’s it, I’m done talking now :)
by NYcON on Nov 28, 2008 3:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Very Good list
with the adddition of Robbins as underated. Webster ………..your right but, he was so bad for a couple of years after such high expectations at least he’s arrived now. I’m glad Blackburn is getting his due. Other than one play in the Superbowl the only bad thing he’s done since coming in to the league was get hurt in his first start…..after a couple of interceptions.
We're only gonna score 17 points?
by big blue wrecking crew on Nov 28, 2008 7:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Defensive QB
LOL. He has looked pathetic trying to make tackles. Half-hearted. It’s consistent with his style in the pocket. He’s not the kind of QB who stands in there and takes the hit like a Warner or Collins. Under pressure, he backpedals and gets rid of the ball. Personally, while I admire the toughness of Collins and Warner, I like what Eli doest: he has never suffered a serious injury and we can count on him playing every game (knock wood.)
by george cronin on Nov 28, 2008 7:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Bradshaw
with Ward back in the lineup, it’s hard to judge Bradshaw.
i agree that he’s a mediocre kick returner, but I’d like to see him get more than five carries a game before i called him “overrated.” After Ward’s broken leg last year, he flourished as the #2 back.
by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Nov 28, 2008 10:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
its tough
i’d like to see bradshaw get carries in the first quarter, before jacobs is in
It's not easy being Giants fan in Philly.. but it sure is satisfying
by Hoyadestroya85 on Nov 28, 2008 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
don't get me wrong,
that wasn’t a personal attack against hoya, or you for that matter. As I said generally I agree with almost everything posted around here. I just vehemently disagree:)
by NYcON on Nov 28, 2008 10:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
none taken
we’re all giants fans here
It's not easy being Giants fan in Philly.. but it sure is satisfying
by Hoyadestroya85 on Nov 28, 2008 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know where your ratings are coming from
For example, I don’t recall seeing Pierce mentioned anywhere as an elite linebacker? Anyone calling for hall of fame consideration? How about pro bowl? Nope, Pierce is a good, smart player, who compensates for his physical skills (which are good, but not great) with very heady play.
Webster? He was drafted in the second round, and was highly thought of through 2006. For some reason, he played poorly in the beginning of 2007, to the point of being inactivated. Got a second chance because of injuries, and showed the potential a lot of us thought he had all along.
Bradshaw? OK – He had a bad game when everyone was keying on him. Did you forget his 70 yard run last week? He has averaged 6.3 yards per carry this year. How can that be overated?
Hixon? Everyone sees his potential, and has since he has shown up. The only way you could call him under rated would be if he was the T.O. and Randy Moss rolled together.
by NYERinSF on Nov 28, 2008 7:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Let me explain
Pierce- I like Antonio a lot and he’s the consummate professional, but Middle Linebacker IMO is the weakest position on the base defense. It was a joke that he made the Pro Bowl in 06, but once again I believe antonio is above average.. he’s not a pro bowl player (although i’ve voted for him at the position about 20 times). One of the major problems i have with Antonio is that the plays of his that stick out in my mind (other than the green bay play) are overwhelmingly personal fouls and pass interference penalties.
Webster- The secondary was horrific in ’06 and I know that he was picked high, but he was not good until the playoffs in ’07
Bradshaw- After the Super Bowl people were willing to anoint him as the next Barry Sanders. I’d like to see him play a game starting in the 1st quarter where Jacobs doesn’t play. Plus I’m scared to death whenever he touches the ball thinking he’s gonna fumble (think Tiki several years ago).
Hixon- He’s the jack of all trades.. returner, back up split end, and gunner.. Not many people outside of the dedicated fan base realize his true value to the team.
It's not easy being Giants fan in Philly.. but it sure is satisfying
by Hoyadestroya85 on Nov 28, 2008 9:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
way off base on a few items
AP got soft in midseason because of injury. He is not fast enough to matchup with the TE, but other than that, he is NOT overrated. As you note, he does so many intangibles for the defense. YES, the defense does MISS Pierce when he is not 100%. Please tell me that Blackburn makes the play against Green Bay when he fends off 4 guys to stop a screen?!
Bradshaw? Overrated? Okay, I’ll go for the discussion bait. Ahmad Bradshaw is the Giants best running back, and it took Jacobs going down in Buffalo after Ward was already out for the year to get this guy some carries. (Gilbride my hero.) The Bills only had ~9 men in the box, KNOWING he was carrying the ball in the blizzard (Eli lost the ball ~5x, all they could do was run), and he still took it to the house. Against the Ravens he had Lewis grabbing air on his way to 77 yards. Last week, HE WAS HURT. I love all the reasons they give, like he is too small (weighs more than Tiki and Morris), or that he needs Jacobs and Ward in front of him (try him in Q1 already). Last year in the playoffs, vs Dallas, the Giants had 6 series before they went into the prevent offense with 9:27 left…. 4 of them Jacobs (1 TD, the Toomer TD on first series), and Bradshaw had 2 (BOTH resutling in a TD). The guy spreads the field, he goes wide (see Rams game), he hits the hole by the time Jacobs is gtg out of his stance. I love Jacobs because he is important against smaller teams (Eagles DL) and also in imposing your physical will on a team. But to claim Bradshaw is overrated is simply ridiculous. Just read what others have to say about him, those that know a thing or two more than you or me.
Webster, (Robbins), Hixon, Smith, Boss all underrated, agree w all comments. Blackburn is not fast enough to be underrated.
by andy f. on Nov 29, 2008 3:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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