What's the fascination with...

by Intellectual Derriere on Oct 14, 2008 6:35 PM EDT Comment 22 comments

Tynes??? I don't get it. Yeah, Carney is 72 years old, and his kicking shoe is older then a couple pair of Jim's undies, but he's still outperforming Tynes.

Tynes had his best season ever last year, and Carney (Again 72 years old) is outperforming him. Carney's KO's are still longer than Tynes. Carney has only missed 8 PAT in a 23 year career, to Tynes 6 PAT misses in a 4yr career.

It can't be only his age, because kickers of Tynes ability are a dime a dozen. I just don't get it. Somebody, please tell me why they are even considering keeping Tynes over Carney?

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Carney

kickoffs are not as good and Tynes has longer range

by DoctorK16 on Oct 14, 2008 8:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

They traded to get Tynes

Plus, Carney is the oldest player in the league, 14 years older than Tynes. They see Tynes as the future but the future isn’t now.

by TerraByte on Oct 14, 2008 9:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Lets

not forget almost all of Carney’s FG have been "chip"shots due to the fact that we get to the 10 yrd line and can’t punch it in…cough cough Tony Gonzalez cough cough… so before we go letting go of Tynes let’s realize what Carney is and isn’t. Can’t kick for shit down field and is uber accurate on 30-40 yrd FG’s. When we start having to boot 40+ b/c better teams will be tougher to move the ball on, and Carney whiffs on em’ you will all see my point. KEEP TYNES.

by ProudYankee on Oct 15, 2008 11:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

yep

the range is the thing. in the last four seasons, Carney only has one ATTEMPT from 50 yards or longer; Tynes is 4-7 from that range with a long of 53. last year with Jax and KC Carney was 2-4 from 40-49 and Tynes was 8-8. plus the lack of distance on Carney’s kickoffs makes the D’s job harder.

by JoshNY on Oct 15, 2008 12:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Carney

He had one bad game with kickoffs this year. Monday he was reaching the goal line and beyond. Honestly, there isn’t a ‘wrong’ choice here. As for 50 + yard field goals, any kicker’s job is to be automatic from inside 40. 50 + is a bonus.

by Ed Valentine on Oct 15, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hold on now...

Statistics don’t lie, and Carney is kicking the ball off deaper than Tynes did last year.

Carney this season:

Kick Off’s: 31
Average: 62.6
TB: 1
Average Return: 20.3

That means he’s kicking the ball on average to the 7.4 yard line, and the opposition is starting their drives on the 27.7 yard line.

Tynes Last Season (Statistically his best ever):

Kick Off’s: 82
Average: 61.8
TB: 8
Average Return: 23.2

That means he kicked the ball, on average, to the 8.2 yard line, and the opposition started their drives on the 31.4 yard line.

That doesn’t include TB’s, but it’s plain to see that Carney is kicking the ball, on average, farther than Tynes did.

If you don’t believe me, just check their stats on nfl.com.

Carney: http://www.nfl.com/players/johncarney/profile?id=CAR243867
Tynes: http://www.nfl.com/players/lawrencetynes/profile?id=TYN427291

Oh, and did I mention Tynes had already missed an Extra Point by this time last year. He missed one week four vs. Philly. He missed a second one week seven vs. SF, but we can’t count that, it’s only week Six.

It has to be more than just Carney’s age.

by Intellectual Derriere on Oct 15, 2008 4:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Oh, I forgot to add...

Tynes had already missed two FG’s as well. He missed a 34yrd Attempt week 2 vs. Green Bay, and a 34yrd Attempt week 4 vs. Philly

I can not even begin to comprehend how the Giants are even considering him over Carney. Yes, Carney is old, but that’s his only knock. Even at 72 years old he is out kicking Tynes. If youth is the only reason, they probably could sign the PK from Sister Mary’s of the Blind. I’m sure he could miss PAT’s and “Chip Shot” FG’s all day as well.

by Intellectual Derriere on Oct 15, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

very good points

I’m with you on this one. Carney’s better than Tynes, period. True, Tynes is younger, but he’s not that good. If they were deciding between Carney and someone like Mike Nugent, who’s young and has some upside, I could see going for the young guy, but that’s not the situation here.

by cjmulrain on Oct 15, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok

then you kick off the guy who kicked us to the super bowl lol. Well Tynes is young so theoretically can improve. While Carney can also improve given, however, given his age it is doubtful. Plus stats like how far KO are returned have as much to do with the special teams as they do the kicker. Tynes can boot it 40 yards with 0 return yards, that doesn’t make him good.

by ProudYankee on Oct 15, 2008 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

but

people were arguing that Carney’s short kickoffs weren’t giving the coverage team enough time to get downfield. The stats prove that’s false.

And lets not forget that Tynes almost kicked us right out of the playoffs. He was lucky to get 3 chances. True, Carney probably wouldn’t have made the last one, but I bet he would have made one of the first 2, thus negating the need for it.

by cjmulrain on Oct 15, 2008 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok

point taken. But we will need a kicker who can boot one over 40 yards. Thats a fact. Granted the time hasn’t come yet but with a W on the line and a 47 yard FG wins it, who do you want out there Tynes or Carney? Personally I want the guy who in that same situation, with more eyes on him than a celebrity at the Grammys, got it done. Forget about the missed PAT’s those are mental mistakes. Im talking about looooong FG’s. Leg power cannot be taught.

by ProudYankee on Oct 15, 2008 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

true

I agree with you about a potential game winning 47 yarder. But for pretty much every other kind of kick, I’d prefer Carney. Can we keep them both?

by cjmulrain on Oct 15, 2008 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually....

Carney can and does still hit from 40+ yards. He hit from 47yds week one vs Washington and 46yds week 3 vs Cincy. He also hit a game winning FG in Overtime vs Cincy. It was only 22 yards, but that is still longer than a PAT and certainly a pressure kick. Tynes struggles with PAT’s.

Carney has only been asked to hit from 40+ twice this year, and was perfect. To directly answer the question…who do I want kicking a 47yd game winning FG….I’ll take Carney any day of the week and twice on Sunday over Tynes.

Remember, Carney has kicked better this season after reverting to his “Power” training regiment, not the “Finesse” training regiment he was told to use the last couple of years.

I’m not saying Carney should be the kicker for the next ten years. But they certainly should use him until they find a capable replacement. Tynes is not (IMHO) a capable replacement.

I was actually going to let this go, but after Jim’s post and your “I can see that…” I had to jump back in. LOL!!!

by Intellectual Derriere on Oct 16, 2008 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I say

we start a trend and keep them both. lol Just joking

by ProudYankee on Oct 16, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

average return

If the kickoffs are traveling within a yard of each other (Tynes 0.8 yards less) and the return length is a difference of 3 yards (technically 2.9) then some of that has to do with the coverage teams, doesn’t it? we had a first-year special teams coach last season who was still working out the kinks.

and of course, if you’re talking about kickoff depth then you can’t just go and exclude touchbacks. Tynes kicked for touchbacks on 9.8% of his kicks last year; Carney on 3.2% of his kicks this year.

by JoshNY on Oct 16, 2008 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Absolutely correct...

You can’t just dismiss TB’s. Last year Carney had TB’s on 12.7% of his KO’s. Sure that number’s down this year, but there’s a lot of games left and his KO’s have only been getting better and the TB’s will probably go up. You also can’t forget to include KO – Out of Bounds. Tynes had four of those last year (4.8) compared to Carney’s one (3.2) . They would negatively impact both players stats, but for the sake of brevity…something I struggle with :)…I didn’t include those numbers.

Is there any chance the better KO coverage comes from longer hang times on KO’s?

You also can ‘t dismiss PAT’s or missed FG’s. It took Carney 17 seasons in the NFL to miss six PAT’s – It only took Tynes four seasons to accomplish that feat, and two of them were last year with the Giants. Here’s Tynes situational FG stats from last year…

http://www.nfl.com/players/lawrencetynes/situationalstats?id=TYN427291&season=2007

1/1 – 10-19yds – Expected – It’s shorter than a PAT for crying out loud!!!
9/10 – 20-29yds – Barely more than a PAT – Only excuse here would be a block – It wasn’t.
5/8 – 30-39yds – 62.5% from less than 40 Yards???? Scott Norwide was better than this!!!
8/8 – 40-49yds – Very good, this is what everyone seems to remember him for.

His 40+ numbers are very good. But I still would be more comfortable with Carney lining up for that kick. Carney (68.6) and Tynes (68.8) career numbers from 40-49yds are a wash. Carney (58.8) beats Tynes (54.5) from 50+.

Carney’s number’s beat Tynes up, down, all around. The only statistic that is Advantage Tynes is AGE. But if it’s youth they want, then sign some kid out of a pawn shop. They did that once before and that guy (Matt Bryant for those of us who might not know) is out kicking Tynes.

by Intellectual Derriere on Oct 16, 2008 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

a word to the wise.....

It’s not wise to argue with the Derriere, he doesn’t give in.

In 1493, he had Columbus re-convinced that the Earth was flat.

Giants fan from the womb to the tomb

by Jim Schmiedeberg on Oct 15, 2008 8:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

haha

by cjmulrain on Oct 15, 2008 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

I can see that actually…

Phillies Rays= the 1st time the teams (not named the Yankees) I wanted to win did. Fox must be dreading this potential match up. Personally if they are the 2 best teams playing the best ball so be it. Parity is heavy in Baseball and Football def not Basketball (if your not counting the Warriors hosing the Mavs a couple years back).

by ProudYankee on Oct 16, 2008 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ugh

I love this Rays team, but as a Mets fan who went to college outside Philly, there’s no team I hate more than the Phillies. I don’t care if they are the “best” in the NL, I have absolutely no interest in seeing them in the World Series. What pisses me off the most is that in 4 years of college, I don’t think I saw more than 10 people wearing Phillies hats/jerseys…it was all Eagles, all the time. Now, though, when I go back to campus everyone’s wearing Phillies stuff, and you don’t really hear them talking about the Iggles anymore.

I think that’s the reason I like Redskins fans more than Eagles fans. They’re just as passionate in the good times, but when the team is bad, Redskins fans are still passionate.

by cjmulrain on Oct 16, 2008 7:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

In 1493....

the world was still flat. It’s only due to man made global morphing that the world has rounded up. I actually place the blame squarely on Manbearpig’s shoulders for that.

by Intellectual Derriere on Oct 16, 2008 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs