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Giants seem reluctant to meet price for Gonzalez

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We know by now that our New York Giants are on the short list of teams who might be a match if the Kansas City Chiefs decided to grant star tight end Tony Gonzalez his wish and trade him to a contending team.

If Kansas City Star columnist Jason Whitlock is right, the Giants won't give the Chiefs enough to put the 12-year veteran in blue by Tuesday afternoon.

Trading Tony Gonzalez to a playoff contender just days before Tuesday’s NFL trading deadline and receiving appropriate compensation might be an impossible task.

Gonzalez desires to be dealt to a team worthy of his skill, and the Chiefs are trying to accommodate him, according to the involved parties I spoke to Saturday. Gonzalez would like to join the New York Giants, the defending Super Bowl champions. The Giants are locked in the super-competitive NFC East, battling playoff-caliber peers Dallas, Washington and Philadelphia.

The Giants traded star tight end Jeremy Shockey during the offseason to New Orleans. Gonzalez makes sense in New York. But the Giants’ front office, sitting on a Super Bowl title and feeling no urgency to win, isn’t all that interested in giving Kansas City fair compensation.

The Giants offered less than a fifth-round pick for a Hall of Fame tight end who can still play at a Pro Bowl level for the next three years. I don’t blame Carl Peterson for balking. He drafted Gonzalez and built Kansas City’s passing game around Gonzalez for the past decade.

It would be insane to give Gonzalez away for anything less than third- and sixth-round picks. The Saints gave New York a second and a fifth for Shockey, who is younger but less productive than Gonzalez.

I reached out to the folks over at SB Nation's Chiefs blog, Arrowhead Pride, for some thoughts on a possible Gonzalez trade.

 

Star-divide

Joel Thorman, one of the writers at Arrowhead Pride, agrees with Whitlock.

Honestly, I don't expect this deal to get done unless the Chiefs can reasonably expect a 3rd round pick back whether that comes straight up or some sort of performance based deal.  Our GM, Carl Peterson, has historically dragged these things out (Trent Green to Miami in '07, Jared Allen to Minnesota in '08) so it will be interesting to see how he responds with a deadline that's quickly approaching.

Gonzalez is, without doubt, a Hall of Fame player and one of the best tight ends to ever play. He has just 21 catches in 5 games this season, however, and his numbers beg the question of how much Gonzalez still has left. 

Thorman believes that is a non-issue.

Tony has plenty left in the tank.  Take a look at his numbers the last three years, they haven't slowed down a bit.  He's 32 years old but can reasonably be expected to play at an elite level through 2009, and probably through 2010 in my opinion.  He keeps himself in excellent shape and has missed just two games since his rookie season.

Remember what the Giants had with Shockey?  TG has trumped him every offensive category for their entire careers and I suspect he would continue to do so through 2009.

The way I look at is this - a Super Bowl window of opportunity doesn't last long and the Giants presumably understand that.  Tony could step in and contribute immediately at a high level at least through 2009.

I tend to agree. I think TG's numbers this season are a result of the mess at quarterback in Kansas City, where I believe they have had a different starter every week.

Thorman also adds Gonzalez would be a good fit in New York.

He would have no problem lessening his role at this point in his career.  He is a consummate professional in every aspect of the game.  He's outstanding on the field, inspiring off the field and among the most media savvy players in the NFL.  Plus, his wife October is a knockout.

At this point, he's just looking for the ring.  He's played in 2 playoff games with the Chiefs and won exactly 0 of them.  The entire time he kept his mouth shut and talked about helping the young guys along and pushing for next year.  I've never heard anything selfish said about Tony.

He was a Chief for life until this offseason when he began to give hints that beginning a rebuilding process in his twilight years was going to be tough so these trade talks aren't coming out of nowhere.  All he's looking for is the ring and according to reports believes the Giants are the best fit.

I have my doubts that this deal will get done by Tuesday's 4 p.m. EST trade deadline. Surprisingly, though, I find myself thinking this might not be a bad idea at all.

Gonzalez is an all-time great player, seemingly a great guy and great teammate, and seems to have plenty of good football left in him.

Your thoughts?

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Reese has offered all he should.

I know you can point to Gonzales’ past great years, but consider this. He was pretty much KC’s only target for a number of years so he got a lot of throws that in most schemes would have gone to the wide outs. On another team he might not look so great. Plus not many tight ends perform well into their thirties. I’ve always thought of it as a young man’s position.

And Ed, if you think Boss is already a good blocker, that’s another reason to keep him in the lineup. He’s young, he’s strong, and he has a lot of upside. I guess we could get Gonzales as a backup but I doubt that would justify more than a 4th or 5th round tradeoff.

Otherwise let’s just get a great blocking tight end to back up Boss and make our running game even better.

by giant fan since 57 on Oct 13, 2008 6:23 AM EDT   0 recs

i'd still do it for a 4th rounder

or something around there.

there are zero elite teams in the NFL this year. thus far, the Giants look like the best of the “very good,” why shouldn’t they go all-out for a repeat? i understand the philosophy of building through the draft, and how much Reese values draft picks. that being said, adding Gonzalez could only help an already potent offense.

just think about the impact Gonzo would have on the Red Zone offense… for years, the Giants have struggled to punch-in touchdowns on a short field. that’s no exception this year, as the team currently ranks 19th in Red Zone offense with just five touchdowns in eleven trips. you’re adding another big target for Eli, and someone who can help Boss (who is still learning his way) continue to mature. the Giants can still keep Boss in during running situations, and get him his share of catches. it’s not like Gonzo will demand the ball, as he is basically the anti-Shockey.

Gonzalez just wants to win – how could you not like that?

by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Oct 13, 2008 7:58 AM EDT   0 recs

just wanted to add

that i like Boss, but to say that Gonzalez would come in and back him up is laughable. Gonzo had 99 receptions last year and has 21 in five games this season. Boss has 14 career receptions. that would be like Brett Favre going to the Jets to backup Kellen Clemens.

by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Oct 13, 2008 8:01 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It's not Boss' fault that we are poor in the red zone.

I don’t think he is even in half our plays in the red zone but that’s a guess on my part. In my opinion we shouldn’t give up on the running game in the red zone as early as we have. Another reason to have a great blocking tight end and not another wide out type like Gonzales.

Only if we can get him cheap is he worth it. But it is not a great idea to get him to try to make him the featured receiver as he has been in KC. I don’t think that favors our offensive game plan.

by giant fan since 57 on Oct 13, 2008 8:35 AM EDT   0 recs

No, it's not

Boss’s fault. And no one thinks TG would be a ‘featured’ receiver. The Giants are SB champs, they aren’t restructuring an offense for a new guy mid-season. But, Gonzalez is a better player than Boss and if you can get him at a reasonable price why wouldn’t you do that?

by ETVal on Oct 13, 2008 9:28 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hey, 57,

Gonzo is a hell of a blocker, better than Boss, for sure. Like everyone else, I love Boss and think he’ll eventually be an All-Pro, but if we can get a future HOFer at a realatively cheap price, I say go for it.

by george cronin on Oct 13, 2008 9:40 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i don't think it's Boss' fault either

but, let’s face it, Gonzalez is a much better weapon in the Red Zone than Boss is.

by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Oct 13, 2008 9:54 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No blocky no money

People tend to forget that TG just doesn’t block. He is essentially a very big WR. An excellent one at that, but still not sealing off ends for the giants power running game. Every time TG would be on the field opposing defenses would know that it’s either a pass play or that they were not running to his side. Great talent, just not a good fit.

Bleeding Blue since 1962

by sunlion333 on Oct 13, 2008 9:31 AM EDT   0 recs

Whoa
People tend to forget that TG just doesn’t block.

Plenty of people in the league would take issue with that statement. Yes, he’s a receiving TE first, but his blocking skills shouldn’t be knocked.

by primetime 07 on Oct 13, 2008 9:40 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

And

He was the primary tight end in one of the most prolific stretches of rushing in the Chiefs history (Priest Holmes/Larry Johnson era).

by primetime 07 on Oct 13, 2008 9:44 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

you're misinformed

Gonzo unfairly earns that label because of his eye-popping receiving numbers. he was a part of a dominant offensive unit that paved record-setting seasons for Priest Holmes (1400+ rush yards 2001-03) and Larry Johnson (1700+ yds in 2005-06). the guy is one of the best all-around TEs ever to play.

as a side note, i’m starting to feel like the President of the Tony Gonzalez fan club. it’s just that i can’t understand why people wouldn’t be in favor of this move as long as it doesn’t come at a high price.

by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Oct 13, 2008 10:00 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

As of now

It looks like the most NY would be giving up is a 3rd or 4th which would be a no brainer IMO. Giving up a 3rd or 4th wouldn’t hurt nearly as bad with that extra 2nd rounder. The guys still a legit player and will be for 2 years.

He has the best hands I’ve seen and could become Eli’s best friend…

by primetime 07 on Oct 13, 2008 10:03 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Damn right.

Gonzo can do it all. The Rams haven’t asked him to do it a lot, but he’s extremely effective when called upon to block. He’s one hell of an athlete, period, who could easily have played in the NBA.

by george cronin on Oct 13, 2008 9:44 AM EDT   0 recs

What about 2 TE Sets

We currently run 2 tight end sets with Boss and Mathews. Wouldn’t it be improved with Boss and TG?

by nygiants2001 on Oct 13, 2008 9:53 AM EDT   0 recs

I think

If he can be had for a 3rd round pick, its a no brainer. The Giants have 2 2nd rounders, and 2 5th rounders, plenty of bargaining chips.

Honestly I am not sure why he isn’t on a plane to Newark yet.

Giants fan from the womb to the tomb

by jrs1940 on Oct 13, 2008 9:57 AM EDT   0 recs

Agreed

He will be a giant. Im sure guys in the locker room are pushing for this. No knock on Boss. But Tony helps us now.

by ProudYankee on Oct 13, 2008 11:05 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

agree as well

The trophy is up for the grabs, Boss could learn a lot from TG in the next two year, hell he won’t even complaint

by Bajaserge on Oct 13, 2008 11:25 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

And What about Depth

If the cost is a 3rd or 4rd pick, wouldn’t the depth TG brings to the position make it a worthwhile trade? Remember Shockey goes down with a broken leg last year and Kevin steps up. While I like Mathews, it would seem tight end is not our deepest position.

by nygiants2001 on Oct 13, 2008 9:57 AM EDT   0 recs

I HEAR PLAX STARTING TO CRY!!!

I know, I know, TG is by far the greatest if not top 2 TE of all time, I would LOVE to see him in a Giants uni, now imagine if he took the ball away from Plaxico, I wonder what Plax would say, do I hear another missed practice/meeting?

by skiii on Oct 13, 2008 11:03 AM EDT   0 recs

Bring him over

Here’s the question: do we think a future 3rd rounder will be more valuable to the Giants than adding the greatest TE of all-time at age 32 coming off a 99-reception season.

I love draft picks, and I have a ton of faith in Jerry Reese making draft picks, but the fact of the matter is that in the NFL, the window of opportunity for most teams is pretty small. Well, that window is WIDE OPEN for the Giants right now, and Gonzalez would help to widen it even further. The fact that he wants to come here also shows that he’s less concerned about his own stats than he is about winning, as I’m sure he is aware that the defending champs aren’t gonna restructure their offense just for him.

Another thing to keep in mind is that I’ve heard a lot of rumblings that this upcoming draft class is not a particularly strong or deep one. I say this deal is as close to a no-brainer as they come, now I just hope Reese sees it the same way.

by cjmulrain on Oct 13, 2008 11:16 AM EDT   0 recs

You've got it exactly right, cj.

On the other hand, should JR not pull the trigger, I’m not going to bitch about it. He has earned that kind of respect for his decisions.

by george cronin on Oct 13, 2008 11:52 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Age

I Just decided to do some research on the ages of some top notch players and here’s what I came up with
Terrell Owens- 34, Turns 35 in December
Randy Moss- 31, Turns 32 in February
Charles Woodson- 32
All of these guys are still on the top of their games and prove that if you’re in peak physical condition, you can still play at a high level.
From a marketing standpoint, this could do wonders for the Giants in the Hispanic community due to his success.

by Hoyadestroya85 on Oct 13, 2008 11:24 AM EDT   0 recs

All good points

It appears Big Blue View signs off on the trade, therefore I think Ed should be granted the first interview with TG after the press conference.

Giants fan from the womb to the tomb

by jrs1940 on Oct 13, 2008 11:29 AM EDT   0 recs

Another thought...

Let’s just say that Reese goes through with the trade for a 3rd rounder. The Shockey trade netted an additional 2nd round pick (albeit a likely later round pick) and as we’ve all discussed ad nauseam, 2nd rd picks are extremely valuable. So let’s say Reese keeps both 2nd rd picks (ie the NYG 2nd rd pick and the NO Saints 2nd rd pick) but trades the 3rd pick to KC for Gonzo.

Then you can look at it that NYG trades Shock and a 3rd rd pick (essentially) for Gonzo and a #2 and a #5. Hell, I think this trade likely gets done with a #4 pick.

I say this is a no-brainer. I’d do this trade all day long. Gonzo likely plays 2 more seasons as well, so you aren’t hiring a gun for the 2008 stretch run and that’s it. Plus you have a chance to vastly upgrade your team and Boss gets to learn behind one of the best in the business.

My guts tells me this gets done. Makes all of the sense in the world.

by Cody K on Oct 13, 2008 12:04 PM EDT   0 recs

I’ve read that if Vilma plays a certain percentage of snaps for the Saints this year, the 2nd round pick from the Saints becomes a 2010 first round pick, so I’m hoping that Vilma plays a lot, the giants trade a third rounder for Gonzalez and then the Giants will be all back to normal by next year.

by Hoyadestroya85 on Oct 13, 2008 12:21 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

OK, you've all convinced me...

Let’s give him a shot if we can get him for a third rounder. I guess you can’t have too many receivers.

by giant fan since 57 on Oct 13, 2008 1:40 PM EDT   0 recs

'57

You sort of got run over by the TG locomotive here. Hope you are back up and around by game-time tonight. LOL!!

by ETVal on Oct 13, 2008 1:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Martini

Oh, you should be in fine commenting form tonight, then. LOL!!

by ETVal on Oct 13, 2008 7:19 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Gonzalez

Would most likely be the second option after three or four games. Burres is the guy to go to but having a safety net like Gonzalez especially in the Red Zone would make the Giants the team to beat in the whole NFC if they aren’t already

by IamtheGreatest on Oct 13, 2008 2:12 PM EDT   0 recs

Guys

as a chiefs fan, please let me explain the scenario to you.

For everyone who thinks that TGs numbers came from him being the only target on the field, don’t you think other teams knew that? It isn’t like Tony snuck up on them week by week to burn their LB and DB on a constant basis.
“Wow that 88 sure is a heck of a player, wonder where he came from?”
“Basketball, they say. 1 hit wonder”

Lets face it, if Tony was on your team he would immediately become your best reciever on the team, period. Last year, Tony G led all NFL TE’s in every category except for TD’s with no running game behind him and Brodie and Damon throwing the ball to him. If you wanted, you could release Plaxico and your offense would still be better with Tony as your TE.

Believe me, if the chiefs had a shot at winning anything this year, I would want tony to stay. However, with the current state of the chiefs right now, all I want is for tony to win a super bowl. So, I think its time to put a little hair on your chests in NY and pull the trigger on this trade before some other team does.

by Ben S on Oct 13, 2008 3:02 PM EDT   0 recs

i hear you

but i’m not sure if i’d go that far to dismiss Plax. while he may not be one of the top-five receivers in the NFL, he undoubtedly is one of the top-five most imporant. without him, there’s no way the Giants make it to the playoffs last year, much less win the Super Bowl. he is a huge security blanket for Eli.

by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Oct 13, 2008 3:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Ben

Dude, I appreciate your passion. I wouldn’t mind seeing the giants pull the trigger on this, myself. No way, though, that TG comes in here and suddenly becomes a No. 1 target. Not going to happen no matter how good he is. This team just won a Super Bowl, it is 4-0 with the top-rated offense in the league. They won’t suddenly start using the tight end as the primary weapon, especially midseason. TG would definitely help, though.

by ETVal on Oct 13, 2008 3:14 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't necessarily agree

that he’d immediately become the best receiver on the team, b/c I think Plax is insanely talented, but I do agree with most of what you said. And even if he isn’t featured on the Giants as much as he has been with the Chiefs, he could still do just as well if not better to help win games b/c he’s surrounded by so much talent.

Again, look at the Pats: Junior Seau is nowhere near as good as he was when he was the Chargers dominant linebacker, but he’s still a very effective player for them b/c he’s in a great situation. The same thing happened with Corey Dillon. And of course there’s Randy Moss. I love the idea of rescuing veterans who are desperate for a ring off bad teams. Plus, the good karma of having all those Chiefs fans pulling for us for the rest of the season can’t hurt either.

by cjmulrain on Oct 13, 2008 3:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I stand corrected!

I’m ready to admit I was wrong on Gonzales….bring him on!

by giant fan since 57 on Oct 13, 2008 6:20 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Too good to be true?

Reading all the comments I find myself wanting to say, yeah, the Giants should do this. It’s a perfect fit and the cost is relatively cheap. Keeping him away from the eagles would be an added bonus. But a nagging voice says it all sounds too good to be true. Perhaps it’s irrational, but something says just take a pass on this. I’d be much more excited if we could get a veteran all pro caliber linebacker for a mid round draft pick. But it doesn’t look like that option is out there so I’ll just have to watch and see how this plays out.

by MJW on Oct 13, 2008 3:27 PM EDT   0 recs

Linebacker Hell

Imagine what Gonzalez could do for the running game. It wouldn’t just be his blocking. If you’re a LB, do you key on Jacobs and let Gonzalez get free or cover the best pass catching TE in history and get run over. There are way too many positives to making this trade. If I were the Eagles, I would make the trade just to keep him away from the Giants.

by TerraByte on Oct 13, 2008 4:30 PM EDT   0 recs

Denver always played TG tough

And they had to put Champ Bailey on him. Imagine a team having to make that decision with Plax lined up wide.

by primetime 07 on Oct 13, 2008 7:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

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