With Giants, it's always about Manning and Coughlin

by Ed Valentine on Nov 28, 2007 9:07 AM EST in New York Giants News

Try as we might with this New York Giants team we can't seem to avoid it. No matter what, we always seem to come back to discussing the play of Eli Manning and the fate of Tom Coughlin.

Sunday's meltdown against Minnesota has, of course, fanned those flames anew.

In a very blunt assessment of Eli, Deadspin wonders if Manning really has improved or if that is just hopeful talk.

"For all the talk of Manning's supposed "turnaround" season, his numbers are actually quite atrocious. He's 24th out of 25 quarterbacks in efficiency rating, he's first in interceptions and his overall stats are actually worse than they've been the last couple of years."

If Eli doesn't rebound from Sunday's four-interception disaster that will make Coughlin's job that much more difficult.

The New York Times is already wondering if Coughlin might bump The Knicks' Isiah Thomas as the New York coach on the hottest seat.

It appears to be that time of year again, when the Meadowlands wind starts whipping and the leaves are almost done falling, and Tom Coughlin's jaw starts dropping as he watches Eli Manning throw incomprehensible pass after pass and wonders, Is this all there is? ... If Thomas somehow survives, Coughlin could soon be back where he was last winter, on the hottest seat in town, even as he sits snugly in excellent wild-card position. When all is said and done, his fate will ultimately be tied to whether Manning can rebut the belief that he plays smaller as the games get bigger.

All of this gnashing of teeth is typical of the past couple of seasons. Despite the 7-4 record and the lead in the wild-card race the signs are ominous.

GM Jerry Reese, though, did his best to put a positive face on where the Giants stand at this point.

"It's not like we're 4-7," he said. "We're 7-4 and we're in good position. I think we should be playing better, and I'm not sure why we aren't, because we should be ascending at this point. Maybe something will happen and we'll get on another winning streak and get some momentum. We won six games in a row and I don't think you can be an awful team and win six games in a row. It's men against men. It's the NFL. So I don't think we're an awful team by any stretch. We played an awful game."

Amazing what one bad loss can cause in what otherwise has been a very enjoyable season thus far.

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an age of "hope" and "wonder"

Eli sucking majorly against the Vikes last Sunday has caused me to think about the future of the Giants - possibilities, consequences, etc.(apparently it has spurned the journalists, as well). This is a tough thing to think about, though. Let me explain why.

Eli has a contract extension through 2012. Since it's glaringly obvious that the ownership has quite an affinity for Eli, I wouldn't be surprised if they keep Eli until 2012.They keep waiting for Eli to come around. So let's see, that's four years of waiting for nothing more than playoff appearances. Five more years of this "faith" will possibly bring the Giants'
extended future to ruins. Maybe they see something that in him that we don't, right? Kind of a tough idea to defend, because we see him (or CAN see him) on the field for every snap he takes. And that's where the rubber meets the road. Now that I think about it, I don't recall hearing or seeing Mr. Reese's reaction to the extension. If I remember correctly, he was unavailable for comment - just what we need,
another case of not answering to the fans. My take concerning Eli is this - If he stays, we will enjoy the constant sense of inconsistency. If he stays until 2012, it won't matter who our receivers or running backs are. The only consistent thing about Eli is - has
been - and probably will be - his inconsistency on the field.

Just look (and I know things can change but this is what they signed for)-

Toomer's here until 2008, and who knows, he may retire soon.

Moss, who in my estimation hasn't lived up to his billing, is a free agent in 2010.

Shockey's probably around 'till 2011.

We also have Plax until 2011.

But none of that matters if Eli is allowed to hang around. Will we ruin the extended future of our team by merely hoping that one day he will "get it"?

Constant inconsistency is Eli. 5 years of waiting is too much, and I don't think that Coughlin is to blame for the blunderings of a QB that his bosses support and want on the field. Unless Manning really shows me something for what's left of the season, I have no qualms with parting ways with him at the end of the season.

And let's face reality here, Plax has made Eli look good on too many occasions. My grandmother could heave up passes like Eli has at times. Just throw it up and let the tall man leap over his opponent.

If he stays, he will effectively use up the best years that our receivers have left with mediocrity. Aren't we better assessors than this?

Management, please don't turn the other way. See the situation for what it is. Hope is a good thing, but the farther we go down the road, the less that this hope is warranted.

Wake up!

by GAgiantfan on Nov 28, 2007 10:21 AM EST reply actions

I agree with alot

but not all you're saying. Yeah this was his worst performance since the Baltimore game of his rookie year. Actually maybe of his carreer since minnesota did nothing really confusing on defense.I even agree that as a fan I felt screwed attending this as one of four games this year by what the team offered. However, Eli is probably better than at least 20 other starters out there. Yeah it's time to start drafting again for the future but considering the teams other more glaring needs( DB'S, backup O/line, linebacker)I can't see us taking a high draft pick for the next couple of years at least.Factor in that Toomer has obviously lost a step, Burress can't effectively go deep anymore allowing teams to focus more on Shockey, our running backs are this years "depleted by injury" position and our line allowed him to get the snot beat out of him, I don't think it's time to completely throw in the towel just yet. I'm hoping that the return of Steve Smith, both RB's and return to form by the offensive line will turn things around somewhat.Of course Tom Brady was a 6th rounder so there could be a prayer there too.

P.S. is your grandmothers arm really that good , we might be able to get a roster spot exemption and try something.

by big blue wrecking crew on Nov 28, 2007 11:54 AM EST up reply actions

I agree with you on some points

but the reality is, after all of the spin, to this point we have a QB who has not lived up to the hype.

He makes bad mistakes. He makes bad throws. He has a history of both.

As far as the mistakes go, they can be coached. It can be worked out over time so that he's conditioned to do the right thing, sort of a 'second nature mentality'.

Bad throws can't be fixed. They can be tweaked, worked, and re-worked, but not completely fixed. One week Eli throws extremely high. The next week he throws grounders. Just so happens that this past game he threw a bunch, a bunch of grounders. And I'll say it again (and think about it the next few games), how many times have you wondered who the heck the pass was going to? Way too many if you saw what I saw.

I would say he's better than a few quarterbacks, but that's about as far as I go. He has the POTENTIAL to be much greater; however, we all know about potential (i.e. Tim Carter, Ron Dixon, so on and so forth)....potential is great, but if it isn't tapped into so that it can become a REALITY, it's not much good.

As I said earlier, I don't expect them to let Eli go (financial reasons). And while I'm not throwing in the towel, I can call a spade a spade and say that he has an erratic history that continues to this day. Why would that change? I don't ask it from a negative perspective - it is what it is, and I didn't make it that way.

I'm not worried about any other QB but ours.... and the one that we have, well, I am not comfortable with him at all....

Can he change things? Certainly. But that's not the question. The question is WILL he change things? There's the rub. And based on what I've seen after 4 seasons, my guess is "no". Could I be wrong? You bet, and believe me, I couldn't be happier than if Eli proved me wrong. I'm a Giants' fan, man!

PS - I'll call my grandmother and see what she says. She'd probably jump on that opportunity, provided that she had some decent protection in front of her.

by GAgiantfan on Nov 28, 2007 4:39 PM EST up reply actions

Awww forget it.

The way the line perfromed last week, even Tarkenton would have run for miles!

by big blue wrecking crew on Nov 29, 2007 7:35 AM EST up reply actions

I wold have no problem with parting ways with Eli

but how. Let him take the money and run? I don't think that would bother him one bit, just as benching him wouldn't. His personality seems to be such that benching wouldn't serve as a spur to better performance. He'd be content taking the money and sitting.

by george cronin on Nov 28, 2007 1:20 PM EST up reply actions

Sacking TC won't help make Eli

any better.
Has Reese swallowed the Kool-Aid, or as GM does he see no poitive outcome to throwing his QB under the bus? I hope it's the latter because any hope that the Giants can escape the mediocrity to which they seem doomed depends on him more than anyone.

by george cronin on Nov 28, 2007 1:31 PM EST reply actions

ET, you hit it right on the head.......

It's only one bad loss. Why let it wreck the season? Problem is, there is wayyy to much coverage and analysis these days. TV, cable, internet, blogs.....it goes on and on and is analyzed over and over. I remember a game Phil Simms played against the Eagles.......horrible. He gave them two TDs, one on a fumble, the other on an intercept to a DE. Threw another pick for a TD that was called back due to a penalty. It was tough to watch. But the Giants rebounded the next week in Denver. The 2007 version of the Giants has the same chance this week versus the Bears.

www.billkohut.com

by bk0831 on Nov 28, 2007 9:25 PM EST reply actions

I like your optimism, bk

The fact is the Giants have made a long term coomttment to Eli, one that seems to preclude a reasonable chance to trade him or bring in a replacement (considering the $) So what can be said in his favor?

We've had much worse QBs (Kannel, Brown, Graham, Brunner)
Eli's performance isn't all his fault. The offensive line hasn't played real well recently and the receivers haven't been getting seperation.
Despite Reese's "jittery" statement, Eli's teamates seem to support him.
When he's not under pressure, he throws a beautiful ball, better I think than any QB we've ever had.

So, if the whole team plays superior ball, we'll have more wins and get into the playoffs, not just this year, but in the future. Teams with far worse QBs than Eli have won the SB. It looks like he'll be with us for years to come, so I've decided to just live with that fact.
BTW, I notice that there hasn't been a lot of messages on this site since Sunday's loss. I suspect it's because so many of us are too dazed, confused,depressed, etc to say much.

by george cronin on Nov 29, 2007 7:35 AM EST reply actions

Messages

Yeah, it's been a little slow it seems. Not much to talk about except the tired, old Eli-debate. Maybe my 'Giants fans' photo will get some folks to wake up!!

by Ed Valentine on Nov 29, 2007 11:00 AM EST up reply actions

Yeah it's tough

especially after a loss like last Sundays to even think Giants for a day or 2. And looking through the Eli microscope gets old in a hurry. Hopefully a win in Chicago will change the mood.
Last, thanks for posting the pic. It's not mine but does tend to improve the mood.

by big blue wrecking crew on Nov 29, 2007 1:44 PM EST up reply actions